Smokers in clubs

Subject: RE: Smokers in clubs
From: Andrez
Date: 13 Apr 14 - 03:01 AM

I couldnt agree more with all of the above. My pet hate is simply walking behind someone in the street may be 20 metres ahead of me and still copping a face full of their exhaust fumes as they walk on blissfully by. They just dont give a rats.....! Grrrrrrrr!

Cheers,

Andrez

Subject: RE: Smokers in clubs
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 13 Apr 14 - 01:19 AM

2nd-hand smoke: not a myth. My father was a lifelong heavy smoker. My mother, who never smoked in her whole life, died of lung cancer at 57...

~M~

Subject: RE: Smokers in clubs
From: Joe_F
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 11:21 PM

An addict of my acquaintance, at singing parties, says from time to time "Sorry, I have to go out for a breath of foul air".

Certainly, it is an improvement for me to be able to spend an evening in a bar without having to wash everything from the skin out afterward. However, I do not spend a lot of time in bars, and I sympathize with the people who do & are used to mixing the two vices. (There was a lovely cartoon that showed a customer asking a bartender for a light & being told "Sorry, you can't rot your lungs here anymore -- we only do livers.") Perhaps, in some kinds of establishments, a technological fix might be possible -- say, in a restaurant, an exhaust hood over each booth with a powerful fan activated by the first whiff of smoke.

Speaking of technological fixes, I read some time ago of a device that some have found helpful in quitting. It consists of a cigarette box with two buttons on it. Push the green button, and it will eject a cigarette in 10 minutes -- provided that you have not pushed the red button in the meantime. It seems that for some people, never being more than 10 minutes away from a smoke does the job.

Subject: RE: Smokers in clubs
From: GUEST,Guest - Cynthia
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 10:06 PM

Hello MP:

Your health is of upmost importance. It is not worth it to spend time with "friends" who are not concerned with how detrimental it is to you and others. They are just interested in their own addictive behavior with no consideration for others who are getting the bad effects of their second hand smoke. Just Google "Second hand smoke" to see the enormous studies that have been done for years now about the ill effects from second hand smoke. I think most people do already know this - but don't care. Please do yourself - your health a favour and avoid it - even if it means avoiding the social scene clubs/pubs that permit it. Where will your smoking friends be if you became very ill from continual exposure to 2nd hand smoke?

Of course it is hard sometimes to avoid it completely - when you are waiting for a bus and many people are smoking, you can only walk so far away from the bus stop. Your health - and avoiding smokers as much as possible though is really important! I don't date smokers either! :-)
There is no way I can defend "smokers rights" when what they are doing is not only effecting their own health, but the health of non-smokers, children.

Kind Regards,
Cynthia

Subject: RE: Smokers in clubs
From: GUEST,mauvepink
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 08:47 PM

"They're addicts. They can't help it.
It's incredibly hard to give up the smokes, and so people will make all kinds of meretricious excuses so they don't have to try. "

Oh I know... I used to give up smoking every morning and some days I got to midday! Thankfully my last cig was around 2PM on 15th December 2004. I threww six cigs out the window of my car and never had one since. Giving up is hard I know.

But I am not some reformed smoker who now wants to stop everyone else. Their choice. And they did if for many a year withot me noticing too much. But now, because we have clean air, the smokes really messes things and the thoughts of me kissing another woman who just had a cigararette. Well, it just will never happen. I don't date smokers.

I just got home after doing a an all women's night gig in Manchester. Two of those women smoked out of 40 and you could tell. Sucj a shame. They would be wonderful otherwise ;)

---------------

THANK YOU everyone for your comments and opinions. I can assure Mr Bridge I am in no way school m'armish, but these days I do like clean air around me :)

Keep the comments coming folks and thanks again for your input x

mp

Subject: RE: Smokers in clubs
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 07:54 PM

Aye, just think, The: you and I would undoubtedly both be dead by now but for that opportune moment. I'd given up for about six weeks in that fateful February of 1978 (well, it felt like a long month anyway...), and I was weakening badly, when we discovered that we were pregnant. That gave me courage to keep it up. My lovely daughter, now aged 34, doesn't realise that I wouldn't be here but for her. I'm not going to tell her either. My policy has always been to never spoil my kids.

Subject: RE: Smokers in clubs
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 07:11 PM

It's hard; but it can be done. I attempted it several times, and eventually managed it 39 years ago after many years of a 40-a-day habit. There is just an optimum moment which one must seize; and then avoid the "I've been without for a month, so I'll just have one to show I can without becoming addicted again", which is disastrous. But anyone with enough willpower can give up.

~M~

Subject: RE: Smokers in clubs
From: Thompson
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 06:01 PM

They're addicts. They can't help it.
It's incredibly hard to give up the smokes, and so people will make all kinds of meretricious excuses so they don't have to try.

Subject: RE: Smokers in clubs
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 04:02 PM

but that's as likely as a duff bottle of Hirondelle

So - quite possible then...? :-)

Indeed, Will (and my, how that dates us), but do try to not respond to my posts like the typical yank... ;-)

Subject: RE: Smokers in clubs
From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 02:36 PM

I remember that the first ever open mic I done was just before the ban and I remember a very dry throat. maybe it was nerves as well, but the next occasion was so much better.

Subject: RE: Smokers in clubs
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 11:51 AM

You are obviously a bit of an olfactory kink, Sister!

Enjoy!

luv

~M~

Subject: RE: Smokers in clubs
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 11:34 AM

As a lifelong non-smoker whose mother - a smoker - died of lung cancer, I don't object to other people smoking at all. Though I will probably remove myself from smoking in a closed space because a) I have asthma and b) cigarette smoke can provoke headaches (I avoid anything that can provoke headaches as my headaches can last for days.)

As for people smoking smelling of tobacco, If I can put up with the smell of bad perfume on other women (one of the most common, least pleasant and most pervasive smells I can think of), I can certainly put up with the smell of tobacco smoke on other people's clothes. In fact I quite like the smell of stale tobacco, and of old beer, and woodsmoke, even horse dung.

Subject: RE: Smokers in clubs
From: Marje
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 10:39 AM

I hated the smokiness of pubs and other public spaces, and my life is quite transformed now that I don't have to suffer it. I used to go to sessions in pubs and come home reeking of smoke. Sometimes the smell of my own hair would wake me in the night afterwards.

I play the melodeon, and after a pub session, the next time I took the box out to play at home, I would take it outdoors and give the bellows a few big in-and-outs, to rinse out all the smoky air that I'd brought home with me. Ugh.

I do notice the smell now from smokers who've come into a pub or a shop or a bus having just had a ciggy, but it's a small annoyance compared with having to live with the stink for hours on end as we once did.

It's almost seven years now since this transformation in the UK, and I have to say a big thank-you to our "Nanny State", who achieved what successive voluntary campaigns had failed to accomplish.

Marje

Subject: RE: Smokers in clubs
From: MBSLynne
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 09:17 AM

I've never smoked though my father has always smoked like a chimney and still does at the age of 84 so I grew up in a smoky house. I agree with most of what everyone has said. I think the ban on smoking in public buildings is a wonderful thin and have found that singing in folk clubs has become much easier since. I remember coming home from a night out and getting up the next morning to a heap of vile smelling clothes and having to wash my hair to get rid of the stink. One of the big benefits of the ban has been that many of my confirmed smoker friends have now managed to give it up and I don't have too much problem, in consequence, with smoke-smelling friends. It's true though that the smell is much more noticeable now and I often get revolting wafts of smoke stink from people walking past me in the street. I agree it's actually even more offensive than body odour. I get very upset to the point of homicidal when I see mothers of small children smoking away in their presence and even bending over to do up pushchair straps with the fag in their mouths a matter of inches from the child's face. What people do to themselves is their business and theri responsibility but to impose that on your child in the full knowledge of the dangers is criminal.

The problems I've found since the smoking ban, as well as heightened awareness of the smell are the litter of fag ends on the ground outside buildings and having to walk through a crowd of smokers and a consequent cloud of smoke to get in to a building. The WA rule of more than 5 metres away is a good one. I agree with mauve pink that all public areas should be included in the ban. I know it seems very hard on smokers some of whom are serious addicts and find it almost impossible to give up, but it's probably to their benefit too in the long run.

And just by the way, my Dad, though he was always quite a bolshie smoker, now goes outside to smoke and never smokes in the house even though it's only him and my Mum.

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: Smokers in clubs
From: Will Fly
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 09:02 AM

but that's as likely as a duff bottle of Hirondelle

So - quite possible then...? :-)

Subject: RE: Smokers in clubs
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 08:59 AM

My last smoke was at five past eight in the evening on 21 February 1978, but I think you may be older than me. As well as being a militant ex-believer I'm a militant ex-smoker. We've lived in our present house for 27 years and during that time no-one has ever smoked herein. I can't think of anything more outrageous than someone smoking in a car with non-smokers present. Well I can, of course, but it's still pretty vile. One day I may become a militant ex-drinker, but that's as likely as a duff bottle of Hirondelle.

I recall Vin Garbutt having us in stitches with his tale of playing in a folk club full of smokers in a room that, helpfully, had an extractor fan. But the fan was at the back of the stage, so all the smoke got sucked in his direction on its way out. :-)

Subject: RE: Smokers in clubs
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 07:57 AM

An interesting change in etiquette that has occurred over the last couple of decades ~~
Although I am a *very* ex-smoker [my last smoke was on 3 April 1975], I have never thought it hospitable to prevent guests smoking in my home. The smell goes within 12 or so hours, I find. Nevertheless, over recent years, my few smoking guests have just gone instinctively into the back garden to smoke. I have said that I don't insist on it, but they always say that they would think it discourteous to smoke in the house, and wouldn't feel comfortable doing so.

~M~

Subject: RE: Smokers in clubs
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 06:13 AM

I used to have to leave my harmonicas outside on a tray overnight to get rid of the odour. Only available when it was certain to not rain, of course, and even then there was a potential birdshit or earwig hazard.

Subject: RE: Smokers in clubs
From: RichM
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 04:28 AM

Smoking in my city is now banned in venues I used to play in. My wife and I (both in a band at the time) would absolutely reek of smoke when we came home after a gig. Our clothes immediately went into the washer, and we showered before doing anything else. And as singers, our throats burned, and we hacked up disgusting phlegm for a few hours. And we weren't smokers!

Ugh. Glad that smoking in clubs and restaurants is banned!

Subject: RE: Smokers in clubs
From: Will Fly
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 04:02 AM

I played from the mid-60s until the smoking band came along in pubs, clubs, British Legions, Trades & Labour Clubs, etc., where smoking was the norm. I myself stopped smoking about 1970.

I can easily remember getting up in the morning after a gig, with last night's clothes airing on the staircase rail, the stink of my guitar when I took it from its case, the smell of tobacco smoke on the pillow and in my hair. It was part of the job - but I'm glad it's gone!

Subject: RE: Smokers in clubs
From: GUEST,padgett
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 03:21 AM

No smoking in clubs has helped all round in my view

I agree with the point regarding singers and their lung capacity, smoke inhalation with singers who have well developed lung power are at greater risk (Roy Castle remember him played trumpet in WMcs)!

People are required to smoke outside if that is their thing, and quite right too

Many factors as to down turn in attendance at folk clubs

Ray

seem to be forever repeating membership on fb ~ mm?

Subject: RE: Smokers in clubs
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 03:14 AM

I was involved and to an extent still am involved in health promotion. I suppose I wouldn't have got involved in healthcare as a campaigner at first if my Dad hadn't died of lung cancer thanks to Woodbine.

What I can say is that whilst a smoking ban in public places was just that, one of the aims was for the smell of smoke to be less prevalent. Therefore the smell being more offensive. Your experience bears the theory out wonderfully.

If we got in a time machine and went into a pub 50 years ago, we would be taken aback by the smell of humanity or body odour to be more correct. That has gone now and on the odd occasion you come across it, it fair knocks you back. It wouldn't have done when I was a child.

The comedian Les Dawson was once quoted as saying Miners Welfares didn't smell as bad as other clubs he played as all the men showered each day.

Subject: RE: Smokers in clubs
From: Bugsy
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 03:13 AM

In Western Australia it is maybe easier to say where you CAN smoke rather than where you Can't.
You Can Smoke more than 5 metres away from the entrance to a building (unless it is on a "Smoke free Campus" of which there are more each week.

You can smoke in your car (As long as there are no children inside)
You can smoke in the designated area of a Beer Garden of a Tavern.
You can smoke in the Designated areas of the Casino (all outside apart from the International Gamblers Lounge)

You can't smoke on the beach,
You can't smoke in the Park

WA is pushing to be the first Australian State to be completely SMOKE FREE.

As an ex smoker, I understand how hard it is when you are treated like an outcast when you smoke. However I welcome the move with open arms.

Cheers

bugsy

Subject: RE: Smokers in clubs
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 03:07 AM

I'm an ex-smoker. I saw smoking kill my late wife (with some help from Medway Maritime Hospital). I don't mind smoke. I don't mind people smoking in my house, or car. I don't mind the smell of someone who has just had a cigarette. People make too much fuss. It's rather prissy and schoolmarm-ish.

Subject: RE: Smokers in clubs
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 02:36 AM

I quite understand your sensitivity and objections, Mauvepink. I had a neighbour when I lived in my previous house who smoked constantly. She was a lovely person and I often went there for a cup of tea. But her house, her car, her breath and her clothes absolutely stank. When I got back home I stank too. I never allowed her to smoke in my house. Eventually a cancer scare forced her to stop smoking, and the difference was wonderful. She later asked me did her house used to smell. I was honest and said that everything smelt, but now it was fresh and pleasant.
I would like the law to be changed to include all public places outside as well. I was waiting at a bus stop and a young woman in front of me was puffing away like a chimney. The smoke was blowing right into my face. In the end, I firmly but politely asked her to either move away until the bus came, or put her cigarette out. Of course, I got a stream of abuse to accompany the smoke, but she did sidle away a little. When the bus came, she chucked her still-burning fag onto the pavement. I don't think anybody has the right to discomfit or risk the health of anybody else in public. And it has to be said, when these people are seriously ill from cancer or heart disease etc, it's our taxes which have to pay for their care from NHS funds.

Subject: RE: Smokers in clubs
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 01:59 AM

To Mauvepink:

In California smoking is banned everywhere, restaurants, all public buildings, and bars, etc. When the smoking ban first happened at bars/pubs, owners were really upset because they said they would lose customers. Well actually at first, it started out that certain cities had the smoking ban in bars - so the managers/owners were afraid that customers would just drive to the next city over (where there was no ban for smoking). But over the years - smoking was banned 100 % in all bars, restaurants, etc. (for many years now.) And people came to accept it - or least tolerate it I guess. If someone does smoke in a bar and the owner allows it, he could be heavily fined. Most people in California really have come to accept it now - that smoking is not permitted - at some buildings you have to be at least 25 feet away from the entrance (on the outside of the building.)

I think you are completely right to feel uncomfortable around smokers as 2nd hand smoke has been proven to be very bad for your health.
I think it is good that you speak up and say how you feel about it to your friends. I just wish your friends would be more considerate of how if effects you physically. You may have to just start to avoid places that allow smoking all together. Is it worth it to you to go to these places and have to put your own health at risk?

Subject: RE: Smokers in clubs
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Apr 14 - 08:49 PM

I started commuting aged 7 in south-east London in 1962. I those days, it was socially unacceptable for an adult not to smoke, and when the train came in, in seven minutes from the start of the line the coaches were so full of fag smoke you couldn't see your hand in front of your face - the one pea-souper fog I experienced was mild by comparison. Within minutes your eyes were burning and throat hacking, in the way you describe. As a result I did my best to travel in the least affected coach possible, often in the guards van. So your discovery that smoking is a somewhat irritating habit is not something new.
It is now a good 20 years since the baleful and addictive nature of smoking became known, and so those who persist must be seen as not just addicts, but recalcitrantly so. Equally, anyone who's started in that time must be seen as responsible for their actions, there is no remaining possibility of denial of the consequences.
If a smoker has a personal problem, it is maybe his own concern. That he should impose it on others, however, making their problem as well, is no longer acceptable: it only took one Roy Castle to die of cancer caused by secondary smoking to establish that. As a singer, however good my technique, I still pass at least double the normal volume of air through my lungs anyone else does, so I don't see why I should have to take double the risks the person responsible for the fug does. He comes to hear me, and does so on my terms, and they are that if I'm worth listening to, then he does nothing to damage it - by forcing smoke on me. It's bad enough having to go through the fug surrounding where he's been smoking outside the door.
A friend might do better, though, to explain his feelings to those who are hurting their friendship by their lifestyle. You wouldn't stand by while he kills himself of heroin, so why stand idly by when he's doing so from fags?

Subject: RE: Smokers in clubs
From: Jack Campin
Date: 11 Apr 14 - 08:12 PM

I do sessions more than folk clubs these days but hardly ever encounter that in either (Edinburgh/Lothians area). I do occasionally get it on buses, though. Since it's getting to be less of a problem all the time, I'm not inclined to make an issue of it.

The smelliest local session regular I've known (a very clever and witty singer-songwriter) solved the problem by dying of lung cancer.

Subject: Smokers in clubs
From: GUEST,mauvepink
Date: 11 Apr 14 - 07:57 PM

I would like to get your opinion about something that has began irking me at some clubs.

I am not against people smoking. I am not wanting to upset anyone in this thread. I would like opinions though to be polite and courteous. This will feel like an attack enough on smokers without people beating up on them.

History.
In the UK smoking is now banned totally in all public buildings. I agree with that, for the health of others, but with it has come problems. Some say pubs and clubs are shutting because people annot smoke in them. I do not accept the argument but I accept the sentiment behind it.

So when everyone smoked I hardly ever noticed. Our heads were in it because it was all around us. But since the smoking ban I have found cigarette smoke to be a problem to my throat (makes me cough very easily now). And people smell now that I never noticed before.

Recently a couple asked me why I do not sit with them any more and I was honest in my reply when I told them I thought the world of them, but the smell sitting next to them knocks me sick. He smokes like a trooper and is in and out all night smoking so smells freshly lit all the time!

Frankly it's offensive and the smell is becoming quite harsh to me on my throat. If I sit near a door I have to get the wifts of all those smoking just outside the door. And then the really rude ones are in and out all the time someone is playing, just for a cig.

I know I am not the only one to be offended by bad body odour, but smoking odour has become quite repulsive and I am losing friends because I do not want to sit near them. I cringe if they walk in and there is an empty seat next to me.

What's you take on this, 1) either as a non smoker, or 2) as a smoker yourself who is unaware how bad it smells?

Play nice people please :)