BS: Bundy ranch stand off

Subject: BS: Bundy ranch stand off
From: GUEST,Ruby Ridge
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 12:21 AM

http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/10/us/nevada-rancher-rangers-cattle-showdown/

Subject: RE: BS: Bundy ranch stand off
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 05:04 AM

can't get the link maker to work.


however this is about a 67 year old man who wants to take his cows where the law says he can't he has a lot of public support....

all very well....but the law is the law. wait til he wants to take his cows down your street.

Subject: RE: BS: Bundy ranch stand off
From: gnu
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 05:16 AM

The Bureau of Land Management (BLM) told him and many others to stop allowing their cattle to graze on public land as has been done for scores of years. They also want past grazing fees of a huge sum or to confiscate his ranch. They also have leased these lands to gas fracking companies and they don't want the cattle or people to get sick and die from the fracking ops because it's negative publicity. Far better to shoot them with machine guns and sniper rifles from helicopters. Efficiency is secondary only to safety.

Subject: RE: BS: Bundy ranch stand off
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 08:46 AM

ah! that's different....evil capitalists against the sons of the soil.
republicans against the democrats, conservative against labour... generallt i'm on the side of the goodies in white hats.

Subject: RE: BS: Bundy ranch stand off
From: gnu
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 10:19 AM

I hear the State Militia is on the ranch in full combat mode. Not good to tell Big Oil yer gonna start a range war. That's the kinda party they like to dress up for.

Subject: RE: BS: Bundy ranch stand off
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 10:29 AM

Ranchers aren't supposed to graze livestock on public land without paying a fee to do so. The feds have tried to reduce the amount of livestock because they have been allowed to badly overgraze the land. A lot of federal parks that used to allow grazing have long since kicked out the cows and will even shoot them and leave them in the backcountry of the owners don't come get them after being notified of their straying onto public lands.

There was a ranching family that was grandfathered in with grazing rights in one park I worked in, and it took years for the park to finally get rid of them (when the family members got old they tried to sublet their grazing rights and that's when their asses (or at least cattle) were kicked off the land).

Mr. Bundy is a leech who has grown fat by stealing the grass on federal land. He's the kind of old fart who will cry for his right to do so and there are scofflaws who will support him. But he doesn't have a legal leg to stand on.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Bundy ranch stand off
From: Jack Campin
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 11:05 AM

he doesn't have a legal leg to stand on.

Neither does the gang of thieves who stole that land off the Indians in the first place and then set up a thieves' code of "laws" to make it retrospectively right.

Subject: RE: BS: Bundy ranch stand off
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 11:51 AM

Mr. Bundy is the thief in this case.

jack Campin is well known for posting something that has nothing to do with the subject.

Subject: RE: BS: Bundy ranch stand off
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 12:06 PM

When the Earth goes back to its Ur status I'm sure that will be dealt with, Jack. In the meantime, it isn't what was being discussed. Sometimes you just have to address the ills that are still addressable.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Bundy ranch stand off
From: gnu
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 12:59 PM

According to an article I read a couple of days ago, the feds did cite an endangered turtle as the main reason for kicking out the cattle. Of course, if he is an old leech, take his cattle and his ranch and put him in the poorhouse.

Subject: RE: BS: Bundy ranch stand off
From: gnu
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 01:27 PM

Gee, there are lots of articles on it. Here's one.

http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2014/04/militarized-siege-of-bundy-ranch-is-all-about-oil-fracking-deals-2935768.html

Another states the BLM wants payment for twenty years of illegal grazing. They knew about it for 20 years and they let the turtles die until now? The heartless bastards!

Subject: RE: BS: Bundy ranch stand off
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 01:29 PM

His family has been grazing on the public state land since 1877. The federal Bureau of Land Management now says he cannot do that even though no laws have changed and it is a state issue, not a federal one. All moot now, as the federal government is retreating.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/nevada-cattle-rancher-wins-range-war-federal-government/story?id=23302610

Senator Harry Reid's son wants the land so he can go into business with the Chinese.

http://www.westernjournalism.com/shocking-allegations-link-harry-reid-nevada-ranch-standoff/

Subject: RE: BS: Bundy ranch stand off
From: pdq
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 04:42 PM

The Department of the Interior manages about 1/3 of all the land in the United States, but it is part of the federal government which is not allowed to own more than one parcel that is 10 miles square (or 100 square miles) in a region. The City of Washington DC was this size for this reason (now down to 68 square miles). Only reason to take a parcel would be to build a fort in the Wild West days or other such needed facility.

The land in question is owned by the state of Nevada and the state legislature is the only body that has the legal power to charge for gazing rights. The fact that most ranchers do pay the Feds when the bill comes is simply a matter that they cannot fight the federal monstrocity.

Note that the Obama administration has 200 fully armed federal police agents with attack dogs and fully automatic military weapons chasing a few cattle ranchers around the Nevada desert. Obama earlier in his administration ended Posse Comitatas which had prevented the use of US military against the citizenry. That act had stood since just after the Civil War.

For the record, Cliven Bundy does pay the state of Nevada for his grazing rights and is current on his payments.

Subject: RE: BS: Bundy ranch stand off
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 04:58 PM

Thanks for the sources pdq. Not a single thing you said complies with the reporting I have seen. Are you sure you aren't thinking of Al Bundy?

Subject: RE: BS: Bundy ranch stand off
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 05:03 PM

Ruby Ridge my round pink ass.

Subject: RE: BS: Bundy ranch stand off
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 05:05 PM

>>>A confrontation teetered on violence Wednesday when Bundy family members and dozens of supporters angrily confronted a group of rangers holding Tasers and barking dogs on leashes near Bunkerville, about 80 miles northeast of Las Vegas.

Federal officials say a police dog was kicked and officers were assaulted.<<<

UNPATRIOTIC, IDIOTIC, DOG KICKING ASSHOLES!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Bundy ranch stand off
From: gnu
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 05:12 PM

I watched the vid, JtS. I'da kicked the dog.

Subject: RE: BS: Bundy ranch stand off
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 05:22 PM

What would you be doing confronting the police?

Subject: RE: BS: Bundy ranch stand off
From: gnu
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 05:40 PM

Kickin their fuckin dog, JtS... we just had dogs set upon peaceful protectors against natgas fracking a wee way up the road from me. We don't need jack booted thugs with machine guns and sniper rifles and dogs to come here to tell us we must bow to disease and devastation to profit Big Oil. We don't need it and we don't deserve it. And these ranchers don't either.

Subject: RE: BS: Bundy ranch stand off
From: pdq
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 06:03 PM

The Truth has little to do with the story being told by the Mass Media industry.

The Mass Media seem to be dedicated to obfuscation of Truth because the gereral public is too stupid (their opinion, not mine) to handle it.

There is a huge amount of money to be made by land developers, natural gas producers, a solar energy company (Chinese) and water interests.

Bundy owns a lot of land and wants it to stay undeveloped. Just occupied by a few cattle. He has faced 20 years of pressure that amounts to terrorism. Private companies have offered huge money for his land but he will not sell. So, they called in the Feds to get rid of him.

If the Feds succeed in this tyranical power grab, the whole area will start getting industrial devepement, natural gas fracking, massive housing developements, underground water removal in excess quantities, crime, violence and pollution.

And no, ain't one of these people gives a rat's ass about the desert tortoise. In fact, the tortoise reservation is now killing them in wholsale quantities because they feel there are too many and the Feds don't want to spend any more money than they have to to protect them.

Subject: RE: BS: Bundy ranch stand off
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 06:13 PM

Yes pdq obviously you imagination and your ass is a much more reliable source of information than the media and the courts.

The thing in nevada is not about fracking gnu. Is about some arse hole halucinating in the same way that pdq is thinking his right to abuse public land supercedes the public's right to preserve it.

Read SRS's first post again. She has lived this crap.

Subject: RE: BS: Bundy ranch stand off
From: pdq
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 06:21 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Don't argue from ignorance
From: Jack the Sailor - PM
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 04:25 PM

"Make a commitment here, not just a link."

Sure thing! since you asked!

Fuck on off to the corset shop you arrogant, ignorant, rude, lying piece of shit.

Subject: RE: BS: Bundy ranch stand off
From: Greg F.
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 06:25 PM

Sorry gnu- yer backing the wrong horse on this. Again. Doesn't it get boring?

PS: Keep a sharp eye out fer them black helicopters & jack-booted storm troopers, eh? Ya never know when they'll come to getcha getcha getcha.

Probably get PeeDee, too.

Subject: RE: BS: Bundy ranch stand off
From: pdq
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 06:48 PM

The roundup started last Saturday after the BLM and National Park Service shut down an area half the size of Delaware to let cowhands using helicopters and vehicles gather about 900 cattle that officials say are trespassing.

The protest that took place a day or two ago was cenetred around a dump ruck and a backhoe.

Seems that the helicopters and roundup practices used by BLM and NP Feds was so vionent that dozens of head of cattle died.

They brought the dump trucks in to haul away the carcuses and the backhoes to bury them.

Do you suppose the got proper permits for burying huge dead animals? Do you suppose they will reimburse the owners for the dead cattle? Do you suppose that is why all protester when supposed to stay in a tiny designated area and nobody was allowed to film the roundup?

Subject: RE: BS: Bundy ranch stand off
From: Greg F.
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 07:10 PM

Seems that the helicopters and roundup practices used by BLM and NP Feds was so vionent that dozens of head of cattle died.

Documentation?

Suppose all ya want, PeeDee and buy the crap that the Bundy family is selling you.

Perhaps the feds can deduct what they owe the Bundys for a dozen cattle (if true) from the several million the Bundys owe the Government & the taxpayers.

I'll wait for the facts of what these Bundy leeches have been getting away with at taxpayer expense.

Subject: RE: BS: Bundy ranch stand off
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 07:55 PM

The BLM has court orders on their side in this issue. Mr. Bundy has been free-loading grazing on public land for far too long; he should have been stopped long ago.
Guest is wrong, laws have changed and the open range is long gone; the lands are managed by the Federal government, not the State of Nevada.

Public safety concerns caused the BLM director to stop proceedings, but the case is very much alive and will eventually hit the courts.

Fracking was never an issue here. Senator Reid is not involved in the situation.

The BLM is doing a good job of taking care of America's lands. They are correcting old ills. In an area near my home town they are closing old mine entrances, and correcting over-grazing practices.

Subject: RE: BS: Bundy ranch stand off
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 08:15 PM

BLM Public Lands make up 2/3 of Nevada's land base. The state and politicians would like to get their hands on it.
The BLM manages wildlife of all kinds; wild horses and burros are among them in Nevada (there is an adoption program and numbers are kept within supportable limits).

There are 745 grazing allotments, with 550 licensed operators grazing livestock.

Rangeland health, hydrologic function and flora and fauna are kept as much as possible in a balanced system.

The lands are open to the public- fishing, camping, trails, scenic areas and wide open spaces.

Subject: RE: BS: Bundy ranch stand off
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 08:22 PM

Two nice posts Q.

Subject: RE: BS: Bundy ranch stand off
From: pdq
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 08:25 PM

Yes, Q does a nice job of channeling Dr. Pangloss.

Subject: RE: BS: Bundy ranch stand off
From: Greg F.
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 08:32 PM

Still waitin' on your documentation, PeeDee

Subject: RE: BS: Bundy ranch stand off
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 09:55 PM

I say, this Reid character seems to be a bit of a rotter. In 2012 he and his son were chumming up to the Chinese on a solar power deal.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/31/us-usa-china-reid-solar-idUSBRE87U06D20120831

It seems the land they promised the Chinese is in Clark county, where this Bundy business is taking place. Bad form. Not cricket at all. It is small wonder that so many of you yanks hate the Republicans.

Subject: RE: BS: Bundy ranch stand off
From: pdq
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 10:03 PM

It is small wonder that so many of you yanks hate the Republicans.


WTF??? Harry Reid and all the corrupt politicians you correctly identify are DEMOCRATS!!!

The ranchers and patriots, meaning followers of the US Constitution, are REPUBLICANS.

Subject: RE: BS: Bundy ranch stand off
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 10:23 PM

Relax p that is certainly a North American Jack ass trying to pull some leg.

Subject: RE: BS: Bundy ranch stand off
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 11:05 PM

By Jove! Harry Reid is a Democrat? I thought the Republicans were the party of money with you colonials. By Camilla's tampax this is a bad business. Bad business indeed.

Subject: RE: BS: Bundy ranch stand off
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 12 Apr 14 - 11:08 PM

Camilla's tampax

At least you've said something funny.

Subject: RE: BS: Bundy ranch stand off
From: GUEST,Abdul on iPad
Date: 13 Apr 14 - 11:24 AM

SRS,, Scofflaws! A new word for me. Love it.
Al

Subject: RE: BS: Bundy ranch stand off
From: Ed T
Date: 13 Apr 14 - 11:43 AM

Related 

Subject: RE: BS: Bundy ranch stand off
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 13 Apr 14 - 12:50 PM

Confusion and misleading posts!

The 9000 acres in Clark County are not on BLM (federal control) lands, but belong to Clark County.
County commissioners have agreed to sell the land to the Chinese-based energy company. The newly formed company is ENN Mohave Energy.

Terms
Negotiating a power purchase plan within 18 months
Hiring 500 full time employees by the end of 2016
Investing $100 million by end of 2014; $350 by end of 2016; $1 billion by end of 2018.
Completing 75% of the agreement within 18 years 11 months of Clark County's approval of the rental agreement.

Former senator Richard Bryan, representing ENN, likened the project's scale and impact to Hoover Dam.

Article in Las Vegas Review Journal, by Kristi Jourdan, Dec 11, 2011.
-------------------------------

The deal has bogged down because agreements with power projects to buy the energy have not yet been made.
Senator Reid and son are trying to facilitate talks between ENN and the energy companies.
Governor Brown of California wants California to be an exporter of energy, not an importer.

Senator Reid's son is still working to get an agreement, but the Chinese are thinking of getting out, since potential buyers for the energy are sitting on their hands.
------------------------------------


The ENN Solar development has absolutely nothing to do with Bundy's Ranch and his failure to get BLM grazing rights.

Subject: RE: BS: Bundy ranch stand off
From: pdq
Date: 13 Apr 14 - 01:02 PM

"Reid has been one of the project's most prominent advocates, helping recruit the company during a 2011 trip to China and applying his political muscle on behalf of the project in Nevada. His son, a lawyer with a prominent Las Vegas firm that is representing ENN, helped it locate a 9,000-acre (3,600-hectare) desert site that it is buying well below appraised value from Clark County, where Rory Reid formerly chaired the county commission."


If Dirty Harry offered the same sweetheart deal to American companies they would come running. Trouble it, they would probably give their political contributions to Republicans. Cant't have that, now.

Subject: RE: BS: Bundy ranch stand off
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 13 Apr 14 - 01:27 PM

pdq- where do you get your nonsense? Drunk on Tea party libations?

American companies have little interest in developing solar energy at this time. Moreover, the prime mover on solar energy is China.

Reid is not the one offering cheap land, it is Clark County.

The Reids (and Nevada) are trying to keep the Chinese in, but at the moment, any development is a long way in the future. Nevada wants industrial development. Senator Reid would not last long if he failed to support his home base.

Governor Brown of California, also a Democrat, is against the deal since he wants California companies to develop exportable energy (of whatever kind), not import it from Nevada.

Again, this is digression; it has nothing to do with the subject of this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Bundy ranch stand off
From: pdq
Date: 13 Apr 14 - 01:36 PM

Q,


You are the one who took it off-topic, not I.

I live in Nevada and I cannot print what most Nevadans think of Harry Reid.

Subject: RE: BS: Bundy ranch stand off
From: pdq
Date: 13 Apr 14 - 03:34 PM

"The Senate confirmed Neil Kornze to run the Bureau of Land Management, where he currently works as its principal deputy director. Previously, the native Nevadan worked on public lands issues in Majority Leader Harry Reid's (D-Nev.) office.

Kornze, 35, will be in charge of the federal agency that oversees 264 million acres of public lands, primarily in western states. Republicans cited his age in questioning whether he had the necessary experience to run a government department. The Senate approved him 71-28."


That was April 8th, 2014. Only about a week ago!

"Dirty Harry" Reid told Obama to nominate Kornze, his personal director on "public use issues".

"Dirty Harry" Reid is the Senate head which means he pushed his own nominee through approval.

His boy immediately got to work doing Reid's bidding and destroying the last Clark County rancher who was in Reid's way.

The seige was probably called off because the public reaction is one of total revulsion and "Dirty Harry" Reid is up for election this year.

Subject: RE: BS: Bundy ranch stand off
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 13 Apr 14 - 03:46 PM

The seige?

Buy a fucking dictionary.

Subject: RE: BS: Bundy ranch stand off
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 13 Apr 14 - 04:16 PM

Ho hum.
So Obama takes orders from Senator Reid. Well, well.

Reid led the Republican candidate by 6% in the last election- he will do better in the next one as the Teas gradually wither.

The Interior Secretary is Kornze's boss.

The BLM has approved 47 solar, wind and geothermal projects. How many will get off the ground is unknown.
700 million acres of subsurface mineral estate are managed by the BLM.

Back to topic-
Multiple court orders are in effect calling for the removal of Bundy's cattle from public lands.
There are some 16,000 ranchers legally using BLM lands for grazing. Bundy seems to be the sole poacher.
Over 20 years, Bundy owes $1,000,000 for use of public land.

An influx of outsiders and threats of possible injury to the public and BLM employees, were a cause of concern and the BLM concluded the cattle gather and will attempt to end the operation in an orderly manner.

Court orders to remove the cattle remain in effect.

Subject: RE: BS: Bundy ranch stand off
From: pdq
Date: 13 Apr 14 - 04:37 PM

Here's some more arrogance from one of Harry Reid's boys who run Clark County as their own fiefdom...


"Clark County Commissioner Tom Collins has caused outrage by remarking that Utahns planning to travel to Nevada to support Cliven Bundy in his standoff against the feds "better have funeral plans".

The comments were revealed by Darin Bushman, a Piute County, Utah, commissioner after he spoke with Collins about Utah ranchers and his colleagues on the County Commission complaining about tactics used by Bureau of Land Management agents during their seizure of Bundy's cattle in southern Nevada.

"I was just told by commissioner Collins of Clark County NV that all of us folks from Utah are a bunch of "inbred bastards" and if we are coming to Clark County NV to support Cliven Bundy we all "better have funeral plans". We should "turn our asses around on mind our own f-ing business". Now there's some classy leadership for you," wrote Bushman on his official Facebook page.

Subject: RE: BS: Bundy ranch stand off
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Apr 14 - 05:28 PM

Alas too many Americans still live the Wild West mentality.

Subject: RE: BS: Bundy ranch stand off
From: Greg F.
Date: 13 Apr 14 - 05:48 PM

That's not it entirely, Richard. The media are trying to portray the Bundy Bunch as poor dirt farmers.

In fact, they're millionaires with a sense of entitlement who got those millions by dint of Federal Government subsidies and by failure to pay their bills, notably their grazing fees.

They feel they don't have to obey the law or live by the same rules everyone else does.

Kinda like rich bastards everywhere.

Subject: RE: BS: Bundy ranch stand off
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 13 Apr 14 - 05:50 PM

This kind of nonsense is constantly promoted by unscrupulous monied interests. Sometimes I think that this country needs some sedition laws with some teeth.

A pretty smart person told me yesterday that there was no law requiring him to pay income tax. That we are "bullied into it."

Undermining American society has gone mainstream due to groups like ALEC, AFA, AfP and Faux News.

Subject: RE: BS: Bundy ranch stand off
From: gnu
Date: 13 Apr 14 - 06:07 PM

Interesting post, JtS. No requirement to pay US income tax? I hope this gets fleshed out in ensuing posts to this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Bundy ranch stand off
From: Greg F.
Date: 13 Apr 14 - 06:14 PM

They're a bunch of super-wacko idiots, gnu- google "Soverign Citizen Movement".