sick of DADGAD

Subject: RE: sick of DADGAD
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Jan 05 - 08:20 AM

Here are two tunings that are well worth trying - one is DGDGDD, which InOBU in New York told me he came up with when his hand was knocked up, and he's fallen in love with it.

I was a bit nervous tuning the B string up to D, but it didn't seem to mind. And then I tried keeping that but tuning the other strings from G to A, so that it's now DADADD, and that's a great one too.

They both make it feel like playing a cross between a dulcimer and a bouzouki. Well worth trying.

The idea of having having different strings tuned in unison hadn't occurred to me till Larry suggested it, and I've never seen it in any of those alternative tunings books. (Though that's done with the balalaika, which is normally EEA.)

Subject: RE: sick of DADGAD
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 02 Jan 05 - 11:05 AM

Lucky I didnt read this way back when I was recording Banish Misfortune on the green cd in DADGAD . It might have scared me off .. I am so out of the loop that I had no idea lots of people play Bannish Missfortune in DADGAD..!! I got to get out more. !!! ( thank my stars the CD is selling anyway)
                     I love this tuning . ( Funny I an 54.... humm ) Lots of self realazation here ... Maybe I need to go to DADGAD councleing . Dose anyone know where there might be a DADGAD anonomus meeting ... It is just Sawmill tuning moved over one string but everyone might be board of that tuning too . God what am I to do !! . I know I can learn Paul Mcartney's Blackbird in DGDGBD and really wow the crowd ( something eles I play on the couch at home and love ) . Happy New Year at any rate.. All the best , Guy

Subject: RE: sick of DADGAD
From: GUEST,Al Frost of Petoskey
Date: 26 Apr 08 - 03:09 PM

After Pierre BenSusan came to our town this past summer I became curious about His guitar tuning which is Dadgad. After 40 years of slowly losing interest in regular guitar tuning music I have had a great rebirth with DADGAD. It brings more life out of the guitar and is wonderful for creating and improvising, since the open strings match any notes on the second, fouth, seventh , and ninth fret ( and most of the 5th fret).
The sound can become repetetive if one does not learn the cord positions   and becomes competent enough to know what he ( she) is trying to express before trying to so . It's fun during the first few months to play the scales with the open strings ,adding the bass, but as Bensusan's works show, its not just the tuning that is important . It is the talent level of the writer, the heart of the artist ,and of course the skill level.
Thanks to all for their inputs , I find it all immensely interesting.
[e-mail]

Subject: RE: sick of DADGAD
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 26 Apr 08 - 06:13 PM

Some people are bloody bores however their guitar is tuned. But here are a couple of stunning guitarists whose work I would urge you to check out before abandoning DADGAD.

Ken Nicol (Steeleye's lead guitarist) plays wonderful stuff in DADGAD on solo gigs. Celtic sure enough, but also blues, ragtime, jazz, pianistic instrumentals and accompaniments. Get to one of his occasional seminars if you can.

For a stunningly original view of DADGAD - get to Paul Openshaw's seminar on DADGAD at Wessex Folk Festival in Weymouth this year. Paul has devised a way to play in every key using DADGAD and there are no flies on him. A brilliant man.

Subject: RE: sick of DADGAD
From: The Sandman
Date: 27 Apr 08 - 04:32 AM

some people can be boring in standard.
personally I favour standard,for anything related to aminor or major,I like it in c too.
drop d,Ifind useful and also double drop d.
Ef#bf#bd#[a bmajor tuning]is interesting too.
dadgad is fine if its used properly.
but surely that applies to any tuning,I find alternating tunings useful.Dick Miles

Subject: RE: sick of DADGAD
From: GUEST,SonnyWalkman
Date: 27 Apr 08 - 05:11 AM

A partial capo, Shubb and Kaiser both make one, at the second fret on the 3rd, 4th and 5th strings puts a standard tuned guitar into EBEABE (i.e. one step up on DADGAD). This can give you the same 'Is it Major? Is it minor?' ambiguity when you require it, while at the same time maintaining standard chord shapes for any barre chords above the capo.

Additionally by varying how much of a first position D chord shape you hold down (i.e. by either fretting the 1st string or leaving it open)you also have access to tunings which approximte both dropped D and double dropped D - although they are actually in E. Effectively access to 4 tunings without actually retuning a string.

You can even move it into other keys by using a second 'full' capo 2 frets below the partial one, I've seen Steve Earle do this.

But, as several previous contributors have noted, it's what you do with any tuning rather than the tuning itself which is where the fun is. 'Celtic' melodies fall easily under the fingers in DADGAD and are fun to play but it's a tuning that lends itself to other styles of music too - try blues.

It would be a shame if people were discouraged from experimenting because a particular tuning was thought to have become hackneyed from over association with one particular style of music.

Subject: RE: sick of DADGAD
From: GUEST, Richard Bridge
Date: 27 Apr 08 - 05:40 AM

I am using the cutoff shubb and/or the third hand and/or the English "Scott tuning Capo" (all needed a little modification) to accompany mostly English song. Don't think of me as any sort of guitar guru though!

Subject: RE: sick of DADGAD
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 27 Apr 08 - 05:43 AM

I still like 'celtic' music, but definitely not as much as I used to. Just doesn't grip me like it did. Eastern and Eastern European music speak to me a lot more. They use various weird or alternative tunings, not necesarily DADGAD.

Subject: RE: sick of DADGAD
From: Grab
Date: 27 Apr 08 - 11:06 AM

WLD, I'd add Thomas Leeb to that list too, although his techniques extend well beyond just using the tuning.

Subject: RE: sick of DADGAD
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 27 Apr 08 - 01:03 PM

If you're sick of Dadgad, I'm really, really, really sick of standard tuning!

Subject: RE: sick of DADGAD
From: SunrayFC
Date: 27 Apr 08 - 01:24 PM

And if you can't play the guitar, learn GAGDAD, use one finger and you are away!

Subject: RE: sick of DADGAD
From: Don Firth
Date: 27 Apr 08 - 01:34 PM

I never use anything but standard tuning, with an occasional forays into dropped D. I find standard tuning plenty rich and versatile, and it will be a long time before anyone exhausts the possibilities.

And I don't have to keep cranking the strings up and down.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: sick of DADGAD
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 27 Apr 08 - 03:18 PM

The trouble with standard tuning is that one generally - in folk clubs - hears the same chords in the same note sequence, with the same resonances, and this is bound to get tiresome. Those who play more sophisicated music i.e. classical, have composers who can mix things up.

Subject: RE: sick of DADGAD
From: GUEST,DonMeixner
Date: 27 Apr 08 - 03:32 PM

I have never been able to get very far along the way with DADGAD so I stopped trying. As my fingers continue to worsen and I play more Bouzouki, in GDAD, I have to wonder why it is so reviled by some. Isn't a different tuning really just another bullet in the gun, so to speak?
I'll go after it again sometime soon I imagine.

Don

Subject: RE: sick of DADGAD
From: Don Firth
Date: 27 Apr 08 - 04:06 PM

Yeah, Tunesmith, this is one of the reasons I spent a bit of time studying classic guitar; so my accompaniments wouldn't be just the same old thing. It's a matter of working out something interesting and different without making it too complicated and letting the classic guitar training show. Framing the song without distracting from it. If everyone comments on how great the accompaniment is, it has failed in its purpose--to accompany--the song and act as a setting.

I learned this from a picture framer I worked for one summer. Artists from all over used to get their work framed at his shop and he was considered to be an artist in his own right. He said, "A good frame borrows elements from within the painting--shape of the molding, color, and so on, to set the painting off in space. But if people say "Gee, what a great frame!" and don't particularly notice the painting, it's a failure!"

Same principles work for song accompaniment. You don't have to be a guitar virtuoso, you just have to use your head.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: sick of DADGAD
From: The Sandman
Date: 27 Apr 08 - 04:29 PM

a good thing to do[in standard or any tuning]is to make a diagram of the fret board,then you can work out all your different inversions.
   dadgad like some other open tunings, offers you the
possibility in d and g[ particularly] of making different inversions of modal dyads,easily.
one finger, second fret g string,dadaad.
two fingers, seventh fret g string,fifth fret a string,dadddd.
three fingers,fifth fret fifth string,seventh fret g string,fifth fret, a string, dddddd.
you would have some job doing the last two in standard tuning.
the opportunity to play power chords[dyads],with added sevenths ninths etc,becomes generally simpler in dadgad,and you have sympathetic ringing from the strings to add to the sound.
standard tuning is the most flexible tuning,particluarly if your song modulates.Dick Miles

Subject: RE: sick of DADGAD
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 27 Apr 08 - 06:59 PM

I think its a bit like giving up saoking - you'll get round to it when you're ready.......

Subject: RE: sick of DADGAD
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 28 Apr 08 - 03:00 AM

Has anyone tried BAGDAD?

Although some thought it was a good idea at the time many were at least unimpressed. The more it has been tried the more problems it seems to have generated. I've tried it at the Folk Club with "The Gentleman Soldier" and it went down a bomb!

Subject: RE: sick of DADGAD
From: GUEST,Edward De Bono
Date: 28 Apr 08 - 04:43 AM

These DadGad merchants make me sick with their plink plonky approach to the guitar!

Subject: RE: sick of DADGAD
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 28 Apr 08 - 04:59 AM

I have posted previously that I have never been able to get DADGAD together, and not from want of trying. Pierre BenSusan, Dick Gaughan play in nowt else.

I am comfortable in open C, open G and open D, as well as Concert tuning (EADGBE).

So, I'm glad it isn't just me. Didn't I read somewhere on the 'Cat that Martin Carthy had given DADGAD the go-by, had KBd it ?

Good for him, sez I. Oh, and while I'm about it, would it not be more accurate to say that Davy Graham discovered DADGAD, rather than 'invented' it ?

For 'Celtic' music, locally, read 'diddly-diddly'- I have yet to hear any recognisable Brythonic, as opposed to Goidelic, Muzak.

Far from being sick of DADGAD, I never mastered it in the first place to become sick of it.

Subject: RE: sick of DADGAD
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 28 Apr 08 - 05:16 AM

Of what can be called "celtic", I usually only play in Irish sessions and can't really play guitar for accompanying it. I'm neither sick of DADGAD nor find what others seem to report here.

The main guitarist in the session I went to regularly when I lived in N Wales played in std tuning, finger picking, and playing a lot of chords up the neck.

Now I'm in Norfolk, I see 3 experienced guitar players in the 2 sessions I go to. One again in std tuning and finger picking, this time simple looking open chords but with enough variation to keep it interesting and fit the tune. The other two use plectrums. One largely "strums" chords in DADGAD, changing chords quite a lot, the other with the chords also plays a number of single (bass mostly) notes around the melody. Tuning wise, I'm told he starts of in std, dropping a d or two for some tunes and often migrating to DADGAD before the end of the night.

Rather than being sick of the same patterns and methods used in this "celtic" music, I find the variety of styles I've heard used very effectively even just in regular local events quite interesting.

Subject: RE: sick of DADGAD
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 28 Apr 08 - 05:44 AM

Well of course DADGAD is not the exclusive preserve of celtic music players. there are some great blues licks in there.

Artie Traum does a great couple of instructional DVD's for the stateside view of DADGAD.

Also I'd recommend Martin Simpson's little DVD about open tunings. Martin makes the point that all open tunings can pretty much be tackled with a similar bag of techniques. Clever guy. But easier to see where he's coming from than say Martin Carthy.

What C tuning is that Bryn?

I've had a go at CGCGCE, and i love that one Martin Carthy uses for Famous Flower of Serving Men - DGCGCD. I haven't really got to grips with his other tuning, which makes the guitar sound like a really old instrument - a hurdy gurdy or something.. To be honest, I can't really think like he thinks about folk music - which is at the root of it.

I think that the way you think about folk music will in the end overwhelm any technique that you adopt. Somehow you will end up with what is inside your head - how ever much brain damage one brings to the party!

Subject: RE: sick of DADGAD
From: Mooh
Date: 28 Apr 08 - 08:09 AM

Can't say I'm sick of dadgad, though I use it less frequently than I once did. Open G, dgdgbd, is of more use at the moment, and sometimes open D minor, dadfad.

I wish there was more time to tinker with it (and restring for it), but Robert Fripp's "new standard", cgdaeg, has real possibilities for all styles.

The anti-dadgad sentiment is born out of the overuse of a few common "moves" in the tuning. They're fun and user friendly, but boring bordering on annoying when overused. Same can be said of the same old three or four "cowboy" chords played with a capo for every tune, in my opinion.

Not to state the obvious, but all this user friendliness is what has made the guitar so universal and accepted in the first place...the people's instrument.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: sick of DADGAD
From: GUEST,Jonny Sunshine
Date: 28 Apr 08 - 12:09 PM

I use DADGAD for some stuff. It's good for certain things, but has its limitations, unless you put a lot of work in. But the same is true of anything.

Subject: RE: sick of DADGAD
From: Zen
Date: 29 Apr 08 - 06:03 AM

For a good decade or more I used to play almost exclusively in DADGAD. I have now moved back much more to standard tuning as I have rediscovered my first love blues and keep my favourite guitar in standard. I still use DADGAD for Irish and Scottish traditional music and keep my other guitar in it all the time... sometimes retuning slightly to DADF#AD for slide.

There is nothing intrinsically "wrong" with DADGAD... anything used to excess or played badly can be bad.

As an aside, I have noticed that the two guitars mentioned above seem to "prefer" and respond better to their respective tunings. I've seen in the past as well that certain guitars work better in some tunings than others.

Zen

Subject: RE: sick of DADGAD
From: GUEST,Potato Fingers
Date: 28 Apr 13 - 09:14 AM

I just found this 13 years later. I love DADGAD. I have been playing it a lot since my first post, though I stick to standard most of time it seems.

I can't even remember being Potato Fingers in 1999.

Subject: RE: sick of DADGAD
From: Midchuck
Date: 28 Apr 13 - 09:56 AM

I went through a phase years ago of being much into DADGAD, even traveled with a 6-string tuned to standard and a 12 tuned to DADGAD. One of the things that got me out of it, in addition to being too lazy to keep hauling two cases, was my children suggesting that I try BADDAD. I got the point.

I still use the "DADGAD capo" for a few songs in E (or F or G, using both the trick capo and a regular one)(or in D on the 12, which is normally tuned one whole tone flat), but I no longer bother with actual DADGAD tuning.

P