fingerpicking guitar

Subject: RE: fingerpicking guitar
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 21 May 15 - 08:05 AM

And check out the links I made above last year, Dick, too.

Also the Carrivick Sisters.

I was at an open mic at the Axminster Inn in Devon last night. There were 19 performers on between 0830 and 0030. Ages ranged from late teens to late 50s, with most people in their 20s/ 30s.

I played *one* of my songs as a simple strum, but "recruited" a young guitarist and a bass player to help me on that, and they both improvised brilliantly around my strumming, despite neither knowing the song....really fleshed it out.

Not *one* player did their full set of 3 songs strumming. All did at least one fingerstyle or hybrid song. As I said way above, and as Spleen Cringe reinforced, these youngsters are there and doing fine, but just don't choose to play in "old farts' venues" mainly.

Buskers are hardly a representative sample...most, in my recollection, have *always* thrashed!

Subject: RE: fingerpicking guitar
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 21 May 15 - 07:10 AM

Looking forward to your samplers, Spleen - be sure to flag it up when they go live. Good work!

Subject: RE: fingerpicking guitar
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 21 May 15 - 07:03 AM

Check out my link above, Dick. The guitarists featured so far are a mere drop in the ocean compared with what's out there. I'm hoping to do a series of Bandcamp fingerstyle samplers - the second one will be entirely British players. The hard part has been deciding who to leave off.

I hear what you're saying about your busker - I see plenty of thrashers myself (some of whom thrash very well!), but they aren't the whole story... In the UK there are players like Nick Jonah Davis, Jim Ghedi, Toby Hay, Cam Deas, dbh, Nick Castell, Piers Haslam, Steve Malley, Stephen John Hopkins, C Joynes and many more... it's a rich time right now for fans of fingerstyle.

Subject: RE: fingerpicking guitar
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 May 15 - 06:42 AM

well nigel, all i can talk is from my own experience, only yesterday walking through the streets of darlington, i saw a young busker ,who had a good voice but was thrashing his poor guitar, in my experience there are few decent young finger picking guitarists, again and again i come across thashers, particularly young buskers, who do not need to thrash cos they are amplified.

Subject: RE: fingerpicking guitar
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 21 May 15 - 05:32 AM

Refreshing this thread purely to say that there are LOADS of really good young fingerstyle guitarists out there, but very few who see the folk clubs as their natural home, which makes sense really - why would they put their efforts into getting gigs at a previous generation's social scene, when they could be playing to their peers?

I'm not convinced that being influenced by American players is a problem - many British players have been fascinated by American styles over the years, and why not? What's not to like? It works both ways - Stefan Grossman is on record talking about his love of John Renbourn's playing, for example:http://workandworry.com/2014/07/29/stefan-grossman-the-work-worry-interview-part-2/#more-4135.

Meanwhile you may want to check out some of the guitarists I have interviewed at North Country Primitive. If you want a British player, go straight to the interview with Nick Jonah Davis.

http://www.northcountryprimitive.com

Subject: RE: fingerpicking guitar
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 May 14 - 11:01 AM

doc watson flatpicking at 89
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvyXBPaC89c

Subject: RE: fingerpicking guitar
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 May 14 - 05:09 AM

etta bakers fingerpicking is in my opinion at any age ,but in her nineties outstanding, I hope i can play like that anytime let alone in my ninetieshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPwYJqwUi5w very impressive

Subject: RE: fingerpicking guitar
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 May 14 - 04:53 AM

I PREVIOUSLY PUT UP A CLIP OF EARL SCRUGGS PLAYING CARTER STYLE HERE ARE SOME OTHER INTERSTING CLIPS USING MELODY PICKING OF A DIFFERENT KIND.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43-UUeCa6Jw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMG_6xa0qRAhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPwYJqwUi5w I am interested in discussions on different finger picking guitar and banjo. I previously included amongst others   EARL SCRUGGS PLAYING CARTER STYLE.AND clarence ashley playing banjo finger picking
the above clips are different styles libba cotten, john hurt and etta baker, i hope you enjoy these clips as i have done

Subject: RE: fingerpicking guitar
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 22 May 14 - 11:04 AM

Dave Evans was one of those chaps inspired by the Holy Trinity of Graham/Jansch/Renbourn, and mighty impressive he was too!
This performance dates back to the 70s, but is still a wondrous thing.



Stagefright? What stagefright!

Subject: RE: fingerpicking guitar
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 22 May 14 - 08:49 AM

There isn't.

It's just a weird excuse for someone to post a utube of himself playing.

Subject: RE: fingerpicking guitar
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 22 May 14 - 04:44 AM

I was at the Axminster Inn open mic last night. There were 11 performers. Six of these were under 25. Of these, 3 played their whole set of 4 numbers fingerstyle. One only strummed and the other two did at least one of their 4 numbers fingerstyle.

So I don't see any truth in the idea that fingerstyle is dead or dying amongst younger musicians.

Subject: RE: fingerpicking guitar
From: Nick
Date: 21 May 14 - 06:28 AM

I still have my copy of the Hold Down a Chord publication from that time. I lent it to a friend last year when they were trying to get the basics. There was a 'calypso' programme if I remember. I'll have to get it out and have a polish up to check I haven't forgotten everything.

I always reckoned that Leonard Cohen might well have had a copy as most of the picking styles on Songs of Leonard Cohen were recognisable!

Subject: RE: fingerpicking guitar
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 May 14 - 07:58 PM

Wilko Johnson !!!!!!!!!!


Now apart from Donovan way back in my early teens,
Wilko is the most important fingerpicker in my personal pantheon of great influential guitar heroes...

Subject: RE: fingerpicking guitar
From: GUEST,Tony Rath aka Tonyteach
Date: 20 May 14 - 07:20 PM

Can I just mention Ed Sheeran erm no perhaps not

Subject: RE: fingerpicking guitar
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 20 May 14 - 01:51 PM

Yes Tony, please don't mention my name! :-)

Subject: RE: fingerpicking guitar
From: GUEST,Tony Rath aka Tonyteach
Date: 20 May 14 - 01:26 PM

I shall have to stop mentioning names as they mostly turn out to be dead.

Subject: RE: fingerpicking guitar
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 May 14 - 12:25 PM

Mark and his wife havea villa in France. every year they run guitar courses with some quite eminent guitarists. it looks really nice - apparently the weather is hot and its not too expnsive. I met Mark when we both doing a gig at faldingworth for les worral. I would have quite fancied it myself - only my wife is diabled and the facilities aren't right - too many stairs and other stuff.

Subject: RE: fingerpicking guitar
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 20 May 14 - 06:56 AM

"I remember that series. He now has a range of picks and other bits, so must still be involved".

All John Pearse is still involved in is the Great Gig In The Sky - he died in October 2008.

Subject: RE: fingerpicking guitar
From: GUEST,Tony Rath aka Tonyteach
Date: 20 May 14 - 06:49 AM

I remember that series He now has a range of picks and other bits so must be still involved

On Facebook I see that Jon Gomm Preston Reed - Lewis Cohen -Richard Digance and various others are touring so someone is making a living out of playing fingerstyle

Subject: RE: fingerpicking guitar
From: Stanron
Date: 20 May 14 - 06:02 AM

I hadn't realised it started so early. In 1965 I'd moved away from home to go to Art School. I didn't watch telly again for years. Cheers.

Subject: RE: fingerpicking guitar
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 20 May 14 - 03:35 AM

I certainly leaned to play "clawhammer style" - 1965 - from John Pearce, although his dodgy tab was a bit confusing!

Subject: RE: fingerpicking guitar
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 May 14 - 02:56 AM

hold down a chord was first broadcast in 1965 on BBC, and was a programme that taught finger picking, so JOHN pearse may not have started it but he was responsible for getting thousands of people to finger pick the guitar.well done to the BBC too, now can we cut out semantics and pedantry.
HOLD DOWN A CHORD had a big influence on aspiring guitarists as regards style, encouraging fingerpicking.

Subject: RE: fingerpicking guitar
From: Stanron
Date: 19 May 14 - 07:32 PM

Big Al, I agree. My recollection is that John Pearce came along well after the 'main event'. When was his BBC guitar teaching series? The early 70s? Or was it earlier?

Subject: RE: fingerpicking guitar
From: GUEST,Tony Rath aka Tonyteach
Date: 19 May 14 - 07:20 PM

Mark Newman was a nice guy who was friendly - pleased to hear he is sill around although he must be an oldie like me now. Thad Kaye was a bit bumptious but I am sorry to hear of his death Let us not forget the gypsy jazzers and the country players who pick very well indeed. In my part of London there are lots of South Americans so we get all the Latin guitar and there is a thriving flamenco scene in London. Check out my teacher Steve Homes who is a leading player

The Registry of Guitar Tutors has many exams for acoustic guitar at levels up to grade 8 and it is a recognised instrument now with an exam structure

Subject: RE: fingerpicking guitar
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 May 14 - 06:20 PM

did he? I was doing it long before he came along. my first folk club that I went to every week was the shades coffee house in Reading. 1964. the residents were Derek hall and Mike Cooper -both who could have shown Jansch an Renbourn a thing or two they'd worked at their art.

the standard of the other journeymen pickers was enough to intimidate a beginner like me, hey ....in a way that's what's missing nowadays. you had something to aim for, to aspire to.

Subject: RE: fingerpicking guitar
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 May 14 - 05:31 PM

I can remember many teenagers practising fingerpicking for hours learning angie, candy man, John Pearse started it with the help of the BBC

Subject: RE: fingerpicking guitar
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 May 14 - 04:41 PM

I don't require respect. I go to a lot of open mic type evenings. the ax doesn't stand out in my mind. so presumably I was reasonably well received.

I went with another guy - Bob Kirkpatrick of Sunray fame. I will ask him if he can remember it.

don't miss Bob at Chippenham FF this weekend. i'm doing the open mic at Eype on Friday.

Subject: RE: fingerpicking guitar
From: GUEST,MikeL2
Date: 19 May 14 - 02:45 PM

Hi Nick

Yes that's what I was trying to say...lol

Thanks

Cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: fingerpicking guitar
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 19 May 14 - 10:54 AM

"Guest" above was me with a dead cookie.

Subject: RE: fingerpicking guitar
From: GUEST
Date: 19 May 14 - 10:52 AM

Going back to the original question on this thread:

I'd agree with Tony Rath AKA Tonyteach that the standard is no different now than it was in the past....and that a few outstanding players who've stood the test of time tend to give an impression of a "golden age". Back in the 60s most youngsters were "chord bashers" too, just as now, among the chord bashers, there are still some who fingerpick, and play with sensitivity. eg:

The Little Unsaid: Beeswing

Or a slightly differnt style:

Gilmore - Roberts: Stealing Arm

Or a local 18 year old who plays around the pubs of Tunbridge Wells:

Sean De Burca: Streamline Horizon

There are loads similar, both here in Kent, where I am now, and in Devon, where I'll be tomorrow (though I understand Al whittle's recent visit to the Ax Inn open mic was on one of the more "raucous" and less musically respectful evenings....they happen sometimes!). I can think of 7-8 pretty good local fingerstyle players under 30 who turn up to the Ax Inn sessions sometimes, and about the same number in and around Tunbridge Wells.

They're just not in general playing at the same venues that we old farts frequent.

Subject: RE: fingerpicking guitar
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 May 14 - 09:18 AM

Thaddeus was a keen amateur airman. small planes. he had a crash and died some years ago. he was a fine player. his brother George was a good fiddler -probably still is.

a bit arrogant with it - but we're all made of flesh. they were both Irish.

Subject: RE: fingerpicking guitar
From: Will Fly
Date: 19 May 14 - 08:40 AM

I saw Mark Newman in Leicester around 1964, when I was on placement from college.

To supplement my grant, I worked as an evening barman in the old Victoria pub on London Road, next to the YMCA - probably long gone now - where they had music several evenings a week in the upstairs bar.

Mark played an electric guitar in a blues band in those days - a good guitarist. Mexican moustache, black leather jacket... very '60s!

Subject: RE: fingerpicking guitar
From: GUEST,Mark Bluemel
Date: 19 May 14 - 07:52 AM

Tunesmith said
"Hybrid has become my first choice style, and I would like to think that, if practised diligently, hybrid could cover everything that a pure fingerstyle and pure flatpicker could achieve.
I'm not quite at that point yet. But I am getting closer!"

Given that Richard Thompson still feels the need to use pure fingerstyle (with a thumbpick) for "1952 Vincent Black Lightning" - and I think we can agree his hybrid technique is exemplary - I think you're setting yourself a big mountain to climb.

Subject: RE: fingerpicking guitar
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 May 14 - 07:50 AM

Mark Newman played at our local Folk Club a few years ago, and he's outstanding.
Brother of Chris, if I'm not mistaken.

Subject: RE: fingerpicking guitar
From: GUEST,Tony Rath aka Tonyteach
Date: 19 May 14 - 07:46 AM

Right guitar teacher here been playing for 50 years and I teach flamenco - classical - fingerpicking and pick styles. There are a lot of strummy guitar singer songwriters out there but there are fingerpickers as well Check out my former pupil who is as good as most Monkton Wylde aka Luke Brown. I have seen fingerpickers in blues and acoustic nights and some in folk clubs over the years. The standard is no different now than it was. People like Wizz Jones - Carthy - Renbourn - Duck ~Baker - Jansch - have always been exceptional because they put the work in. In the late 60s I was blown away by a gent in Leicester called Mark Newman who never became well known and a pick player called Thaddeus Kay who was very good indeed They put the work in

A question what keeps an audience interested A good voice - a personality - good material and the ability to sustain the audience's interest over a set or two. That takes a lot and a lot of experience as well

Subject: RE: fingerpicking guitar
From: GUEST,Tony Rath aka Tonyteach
Date: 19 May 14 - 07:46 AM

Right guitar teacher here been playing for 50 years and I teach flamenco - classical - fingerpicking and pick styles. There are a lot of strummy guitar singer songwriters out there but there are fingerpickers as well Check out my former pupil who is as good as most Monkton Wylde aka Luke Brown. I have seen fingerpickers in blues and acoustic nights and some in folk clubs over the years. The standard is no different now than it was. People like Wizz Jones - Carthy - Renbourn - Duck ~Baker - Jansch - have always been exceptional because they put the work in. In the late 60s I was blown away by a gent in Leicester called Mark Newman who never became well known and a pick player called Thaddeus Kay who was very good indeed They put the work in

A question what keeps an audience interested A good voice - a personality - good material and the ability to sustain the audience's interest over a set or two. That takes a lot and a lot of experience as well

Subject: RE: fingerpicking guitar
From: GUEST,M
Date: 19 May 14 - 05:42 AM

Subject: RE: fingerpicking guitar
From: Musket
Date: 19 May 14 - 04:16 AM

I guess I can refer to at least half a dozen voices McColl employed.

He always said local singers must reflect indigenous approaches, (he had a knack of rubbing people up the wrong way) but that he was a performer. Hence a Salford lad (with Scottish parents to be fair) could effect a Highlands accent, a Glaswegian one, pure Manchester or a flat accent free voice at will.

He also employed a foil to Seeger's voice when accompanying in choruses etc which was often different again.

I love listening to his voice as it employed feeling and empathy with the subject. It isn't a single voice though by any measurement.

My late friend Tom Brown had been living in North Nottinghamshire for many years and most of the time sounded so, but once on stage, he was pure Norfolk...... I tend to be more "Northern" when delivering a monologue in a folk club than when addressing students in the lecture theatre or at a conference. When I used to sing rock, I was rather transatlantic in my voice but far more South Yorkshire in a folk club etc.

Comparing voices is a bit like comparing fingerpicking to strum. Musical masturbation.

Subject: RE: fingerpicking guitar
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 May 14 - 03:19 AM

take a good listen to macColl, he does not sound more like peter pears than jon boden, all 3 are available to listen to on the net, furthermore he was not being compared to walter pardon or harry cox, the use of vibrato does not make him sound more like peter pears than boden ,or even like peter pears, the compoarison is ridiculous.
al , i am not condemning ,but giving my opinion ,which is based on listening to all 3

Subject: RE: fingerpicking guitar
From: GUEST,matt milton
Date: 19 May 14 - 02:34 AM

well this discussion is veering way off topic, but I can think of plenty of instances of Ewan MacColl singing in which he employs a vibrato and an enunciation that one might describe as classical(ish).

The performances I'm thinking of are certainly closer to a classical singing teacher's conception of "correct singing" than, say, the singing of Walter Pardon or Harry Cox would be.

Subject: RE: fingerpicking guitar
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 18 May 14 - 08:41 PM

I am not sure what johncharles means about pears being like Ewan. but I am willing to listen. don't be so quick to condemn.

Subject: RE: fingerpicking guitar
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 May 14 - 05:29 PM

http://www.rte.ie/radio1/doconone/jazz.html

Subject: RE: fingerpicking guitar
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 May 14 - 04:18 PM

Ewan MacColl singing BEARS no resemblance to Peter Pears.if you think his singing is nearer to pears than boden, you need to get new ears
http://www.brightyoungfolk.com/gigs/video/jon-boden-sings-the-trees-they-do-grow-high.aspx YOUR COMMENTS ARE NOT ONLY BADLY WRITTEN BUT BADLY INFORMED.
alternatively you are tone deaf

Subject: RE: fingerpicking guitar
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 18 May 14 - 04:08 PM

I don't find Scholl offensive either. I have lots of his work. The traditional folk work I refer to loses out in spirit when subjected to the technical classical approach though.

Subject: RE: fingerpicking guitar
From: johncharles
Date: 18 May 14 - 03:26 PM

Pears and Britten recorded folk songs before the " folk revival" began. They were of their time and that time is past.
Music moves on and changes. How guitar is played and accompaniment styles similarly move on and change. The "rapping tapping" ( Will Fly)is an example of this change. We may not all like these changes but they happen anyway. None of this means that we have not or cannot learn from the past. I think Ewan McColl was nearer to Pears then to Boden in style.
I see Mumford and Son are worth £37 million. Expect a rush on guitars and banjos.
Badly written but off out playing.
john

Subject: RE: fingerpicking guitar
From: Stanron
Date: 18 May 14 - 02:22 PM

Andreas Scholl , more a counter tenor then standard tenor perhaps. I don't find this offensive

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tN5PmR3_XBQ

or this,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrDdRLDaZtE

But it's not folk as we know it Jim.

Subject: RE: fingerpicking guitar
From: Nick
Date: 18 May 14 - 02:09 PM

MikeL2, this may help to explain some of it. In my limited experience it is remarkably prevalent in music circles.

Subject: RE: fingerpicking guitar
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 18 May 14 - 01:47 PM

Listen to Andreas Scholl singing a selection of English traditional songs, as part of his Vaughan Williams work.

Technically excellent, classical in style but about as much passion as a wet fish and sterile as a speyed whippet.

Subject: RE: fingerpicking guitar
From: johncharles
Date: 18 May 14 - 01:35 PM

GSS I never mentioned style you raised that one.
john

Subject: RE: fingerpicking guitar
From: GUEST,ikeL2
Date: 18 May 14 - 01:32 PM

Hi Al

<" most of us know we know nowt, compared to what there is to know ">

How very true. As I got to play the guitar more seriously I found I knew nowt and what is more I don't know much more now if I compare it with others.

Mind you; I never tried to say I knew a lot when When I thought I did...innit?

Cheers

MikeL2

PS if you know what I am trying to say. please explain it to me....lol