Lyr Req: Hawthorn tangle under ragged sky

Subject: Lyr Req: Hawthorn tangle under ragged sky
From: Joan from Wigan
Date: 29 May 14 - 08:34 AM

I have no idea of the proper title for this song - the phrase in the thread title is the first line of the second verse. The song (obviously pagan) is one of the tracks on an obscure vinyl LP which a friend burned onto CD and gave me a copy of - without a track listing (hence I don't know the proper title or the songwriter). I'm having trouble deciphering the lyrics from the track, although I'm reasonably certain I have the last verse down correctly:

Spun from the wheel of all creation
Standing naked, eyes to the sky
Comes builder and thinker
Learner, destroyer, I sometimes wonder which am I, which am I, which am I

I'd be grateful for any help or information if anyone out there recognises this song. Thanks.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Hawthorn tangle under ragged sky
From: GUEST,#
Date: 29 May 14 - 09:17 AM

JfW: Mr Google has been no help. Do you know the title of the LP?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Hawthorn tangle under ragged sky
From: Joan from Wigan
Date: 29 May 14 - 10:50 AM

The LP title, I think, is "Across the Western Ocean" (that's the first track), and most of the songs are folk-ish (McTell, Bogle, Dylan, Nicks, etc.). The singer is Zara (can't remember her surname, it's foreign-sounding) and she's accompanied by Bob Holden on guitar. I can't find it on Amazon or Google.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Hawthorn tangle under ragged sky
From: GUEST,#
Date: 29 May 14 - 11:33 AM

Joan, is it from an album made in the UK, US, etc?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Hawthorn tangle under ragged sky
From: Joan from Wigan
Date: 30 May 14 - 07:54 AM

It's a UK album, probably made somewhere in Lancashire.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Hawthorn tangle under ragged sky
From: GUEST,#
Date: 30 May 14 - 08:18 AM

The only LP I find mentioned with that title is by Roberts and Barrand. It was released in 1973, but no mention of the lyrics you quote, Joan.

A1                   New York Girls                      
A2                   Blow The Man Down                      
A3                   The Crayfish                      
A4                   The Black Cook                      
A5                   The Limejuice Ship                      
A6                   The Flying Dutchman                      
B1                   Get Up Jack, John Sit Down                      
B2                   The Flying Cloud                      
B3                   Heave Away My Johnnies                      
B4                   Maggie May                      
B5                   Peter Street                      
B6                   The Seaman's Hymn

Let's keep the thread refreshed for a few days, ok?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Hawthorn tangle under ragged sky
From: Joan from Wigan
Date: 30 May 14 - 09:16 AM

That isn't the same LP. I know of that Roberts & Barrand album, and I also have another CD album titled "Across the Western Ocean", being a collection of songs of Liverpool and the sea, by various artistes. It seems to be a popular title for a CD! The track listing for the Zara & Bob album is:

1. Across the Western Ocean (Trad)
2. Crazy Man Michael (Richard Thompson & Dave Swarbrick)
3. It Ain't Me Babe (Bob Dylan)
4. Song of the Whale (Eric Bogle)
5. ? A Rancher's Life (? Trad)
6. Genesis 1 Verse 20 (Ralph McTell)
7. ? Pagan Song (?)
8. Don't Think Twice, It's All Right (Bob Dylan)
9. Landslide (Stevie Nicks)
10. There But For Fortune (Phil Ochs)
11. Affairs of the Heart (Ralph McTell)

Thanks for your interest and help!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Hawthorn tangle under ragged sky
From: Joan from Wigan
Date: 31 May 14 - 07:05 AM

Here's the rest of the song, or at least those lyrics I'm reasonably certain of:

Oh the ..... ..... pass willows sighing
Forcing bluestone ..... ..... ..... free
Harsh winds turn you, silver lightning
Running homeward, running homeward to the sea

Hawthorn tangle under ragged sky
Rush wind beating ..... ..... ..... tree
Paling moon casts winter's slivers
Over darkened fields to fell and spring

All things equal, purpose guided
Plant and creature ..... ..... ..... birth
Each dependent to the other
To fire and water, air and earth

Spun from the wheel of all creation
Standing naked, eyes to the sky
Comes builder and thinker
Learner, destroyer, I sometimes wonder which am I, which am I, which am I


I've fed all the unique phrases into Google and found nothing :-(

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Hawthorn tangle under ragged sky
From: GUEST
Date: 31 May 14 - 02:22 PM

This is so redolent of Graham and Eileen Pratt's thinking in their Merlin's Song, from about the same time. Could it be one of theirs?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Hawthorn tangle under ragged sky
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Jun 14 - 01:01 PM

They're in sheffield, BTW

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Hawthorn tangle under ragged sky
From: Joan from Wigan
Date: 01 Jun 14 - 01:16 PM

I've just had a look on their website. I can't immediately see any of the titles on their CDs which might relate to this song, although the title of this one could be just about anything, and not necessarily part of the lyrics at all.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Hawthorn tangle under ragged sky
From: Joan from Wigan
Date: 02 Jun 14 - 12:42 PM

I think what is needed is for someone to recognise the lyrics and come up with the correct title (and ideally the songwriter as well). Then my next step would be to try and find another recording, hopefully with clearer lyrics.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Hawthorn tangle under ragged sky
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Jun 14 - 04:58 PM

Why not ask them? They probably aren't the authors, but might remember anyone else in the same kind of area.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Hawthorn tangle under ragged sky
From: Joan from Wigan
Date: 04 Jun 14 - 02:02 PM

Worth a try! Graham is on Facebook, as am I, I'll try to contact him there. Thanks for the suggestion.