BS: lets develop Scotland

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Musket
Date: 24 Jul 14 - 05:32 AM

By the way, Scotland has free access to all aspects of healthcare and is utilised by most people. Using USA figures just makes you look an even bigger chump.

Try using Uganda. It is about as relevant. Hell, a book about aboriginal dental care in Queensland AU is more relevant about Scotland than what you put.

How can you live somewhere 70 years and know fuck all about the place, it's culture, its people?

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Musket
Date: 24 Jul 14 - 02:43 AM

Like I said, 2.8%.

The issue isn't how many people are in relationships with people of the same sex any more than people with ginger pubic hairs or prefer a certain brand of toothpaste.

It's your revelation above that in one sentence you claim brotherhood and equality doesn't run to including gay people in your book.

So brotherhood and equality of what? Old men with a personality disorder?

You really are about as low as anyone can possibly be aren't you? You aren't fit to have a vote in the future of a country you are so out of step with. It deserves better than the likes of you. Luckily, The UK will remain in place and you will be able to crawl back under your insignificant stone.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: akenaton
Date: 23 Jul 14 - 05:29 PM

The Office of National Statistics say 1.5% including females.
Deduct the females who are hardly affected at all by HIV and you have a figure of around or just under 1%.
The ONS study was of over 250,000 people, a huge sample for statistical purposes.

A new study conducted by the Center for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) highlights urgent HIV prevention needs for have sex with men, especially young men and men of colour.

Approximately one in five (19 percent) men who have sex with men (MSM) in a study of 21 major U.S. cities is infected with HIV, and nearly half (44 percent) of those men are unaware of their infection, according to a new analysis from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. In the study, young MSM and MSM of color were least likely to know their HIV status.
The findings were recently published in CDC's Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Musket
Date: 23 Jul 14 - 04:27 AM

"Brotherhood and equality doesn't run to 1% of the population if I don't think they are equal?"

I really do hope people read your post there. it is possibly one of the funniest I have ever read.

The health inequalities in Scotland are well documented, and trust me, the gay 2.8% (not one in a hundred) are amongst the healthiest. I'd worry about CHD, COPD, obesity and alcohol related morbidity if I were a Scottish politician. Then I'd probably worry about the huge heroin issues in urban areas. Then perhaps access to services that cause late presentation in more rural areas.

What was that about gay people again? Probably the fittest you've got if you treat them as a demographic.

Pathetic.

Yeah, an independent Scotland will err... Actually, they will do exactly what they do now, regardless of whether there is a Westminster angle. The first thing they will do is ensure views like yours, not that there are many thankfully, get marginalised, ignored and left to die out.

Trust me. They will. Bigotry such as yours isn't popular, doesn't win elections and isn't tolerated by decent people any more. Back in your hole worm.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Musket
Date: 23 Jul 14 - 03:44 AM

Fuck me gently.....

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: akenaton
Date: 23 Jul 14 - 03:19 AM

A personal attack on my views, has no relevance to this thread.
Brotherhood and equality in my book, does not run to legislation in favour of a tiny sexual minority which is associated with such high rates of ill health, even if it only affects 1 in 100 of the population of Scotland

Mr Salmond and the SNP can bring forward whatever policies they wish, as long as we achieve the goal of independence......the end in this case, justifies the means.

After independence has been won, there will be much to do regarding all issues, political AND social.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Musket
Date: 22 Jul 14 - 05:11 PM

Are you proud of the large and worthy gay culture Scotland enjoys?

Are you by any chance understanding what the fuck you say when you use words such ad humanity and brothers under the skin?

70 years eh? Pity you are so fucking bitter. Your nation is far too good for sad twisted bigots. I wouldn't worry about Scotland if I were you. The last thing it needs is holding back by listening to irrelevant yesterday's failures.

Your historical culture is far more inclusive than you.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Ed T
Date: 22 Jul 14 - 04:58 PM

""Japanese (artificially aged scotch-style) whisky""

I tried it once on a Japanese ocean research vessel. It was excellent, very tasty and smooth. Yummy.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: akenaton
Date: 22 Jul 14 - 11:29 AM

Stu....I liked that, fire in the belly!

But though we become independent, we will always be "one people" the human species.
Nations protecting their own historic cultures is a good thing, who wants to live in a featureless desert?

This issue is important to me personally, as I have invested 70 years of my life in service to our community and still doing so.
This will be my last chance to help bring about a new mindset regarding how we see society and nationhood.
"Its comin' yet" said Burns, and it surely will even if it does not this time.   Humanity can be brothers under the skin AND proud of their nation and culture....Ake

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Musket
Date: 22 Jul 14 - 11:04 AM

I used to have a girlfriend with the same surname but this was a Nottinghamshire lass.

Hope you get your oats, you scotch porridge you!

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: GUEST,big al whittle
Date: 22 Jul 14 - 08:39 AM

she's a hot little number Musket!

she can toss my caber anytime!

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Musket
Date: 22 Jul 14 - 08:29 AM

Normally, I appreciate how songwriters get their inspiration, but Al, you really ought to get out more....

Scotland for instance. cottages4you have a place in Aviemore with an empty week, 3rd week in August. All ground floor, easy access, off road parking. Little chance of accidentally bumping into Scottish people up there too. If you rent out your places to Glaswegians, they only take the doors off and burn them. (Ok, I'm getting bored now...)

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: GUEST,big al whittle
Date: 22 Jul 14 - 07:40 AM

let's be honest. its just that I really fancy Anita Manning - from BBC's BARGAIN HUNT


https://soundcloud.com/denise_whittle/lovesong-for-anita-manning

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Stu
Date: 22 Jul 14 - 07:23 AM

Well, this Sassenach isn't pissing off, and I'm not interested in your petty nationalism or sudden denial of the Scots part in empire and government of these either. That'll come back to bite you in the arse, as many English can tell you.

What I am interested in is the kick in the arse the ordinary working people of England will get if the Scots choose independence. It might be our last hope of reviving the sort of social radicalism that the English actually do well: Wat Tyler, the Putney debates, the reformists who died at the Peterloo massacre, trade unionism, the Chartists, Luddites, Suffragettes and the inspirational Diggers. We too have suffered for the common good.

So go for it Scotland; you'll still be in hock to the supra-nationals that control our governments and world markets in the same way the remaining UK will be, but at least you've awoken a degree of fighting spirit in your people (I say "your" people, but we are one people in reality, divided by nationalism).

Be bold - chuck out Trident, start with your own currency, instigate land reform to return stolen land from the people. Rewild your wildernesses, reject inequality and the blinkers of consumerism. Educate and care for your people for free. Continue with your scientific and technological research, as the future lies therein, not in lining the pockets of the rich.

Vote yes, wake up the people of these islands and perhaps we can build a fairer society for all our children, whatever country, region, parish or street we live in. Then one day we can tear up this artificial, retrogressive divide and be one people again, as we should be.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Musket
Date: 22 Jul 14 - 03:59 AM

Five year waiting list..

Mind you, you are right about incompetent inept management. I waste time and money restoring a a Triumph Stag. The cooling system had a huge design flaw that became apparent on the prototypes but because the permission to alter signature was on leave, it was decided to continue to production selling a faulty car. A memo mentioned that it would be a good idea if Lucas designed and sold customers a replacement kit once the fault showed itself.

The one interesting part of this is how one of the elements, Unipart, have gone on to become a huge success story. Their six sigma approach is something they sell to other industries and I encouraged NHS trusts to adopt their communication cell approach with huge success. One of my favourite companies.

Back to Scotland. Hillman Imp anyone?

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: GUEST,big al whittle
Date: 22 Jul 14 - 01:33 AM

anyway who is knocking wealth creation!   ,that's the whole problem. england scratches its arse and whistle whilst every industry in scotland goes down the tubes.

shipbuilding, motorbikes, fishing - Mark Thatcher even had a job advertising Japanese whisky. the scots aren't against wealth - they are just saying a polite tone that the Irish never mastered = piss off Sassenach!

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: GUEST,big al whittle
Date: 22 Jul 14 - 01:25 AM

the part of bl that i worked for made dumper trucks - not cars. they were very proud that they had a waiting list of five years, couldn't be arsed to get spares to people, and were bloody expensive.

takes some real management skills to work out a policy like that. not the fault of the workers. i bet the whole bloody company was the same.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Musket
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 06:29 PM

But they aren't capable.

Real politik.

They would need a currency. The UK chancellor has said he cannot allow sharing unless this was in the interest of The UK, which is correct. Therefore, if Scotland wants to use sterling, they would be bound to UK interest rates and international exchange rates influenced by UK policy.

Doesn't sound like independence to me.

If they wanted to join The EU, they would , as every new member has to, use The Euro. Again, fiscal policy set abroad.

A long term future based on short term oil at a price set by OPEC in a currency exchange set by London or Frankfurt? Might work if you shoot your pensioners.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: GUEST,achmelvich
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 05:44 PM

i don't imagine for a moment that all those pro-independence are on the side of the angels. but i did say that many scots would like the opportunity to try to make a better job of government than westminster have managed- hardly a contentious point. there is also no argument that we are a wealthy country that could be run more fairly. many -not all- scots have more sympathy towards a more egalitarian approach to government. and are quite rightly aggravated by being told they are not capable of managing their own affairs without the benign generosity of rump uk.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Musket
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 05:06 PM

And they do via the Scottish government. Removing a layer that doesn't dictate health and social care isn't going to affect health and social care.

That said, the relative ageing population and huge health inequalities in Scotland together with low birth rates would make any English, Welsh or Ulster person hope the yes vote wins...

If the next UK government carries on with Trident, I can almost guarantee an independent Scottish government will wish to host it as the loss of jobs would be of frightening proportions. The service level agreement would include liability anyway so what would be different? Trident is strategically based where it is by request of NATO anyway. Salmond when asked said he expected Scotland to remain in NATO. George Robertson cemented Scotland's commitment nicely.

If you want to believe the politicians, you have to honestly ask yourself why you can trust all those wishing for independence as being on the side of the angels and all those in the no camp as being lying bastards.

I doubt the vast majority of Scots are that naive.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: GUEST,achmelvich
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 02:27 PM

'every scheme to help society could be a success if the money was there'
- as the scots try to demonstrate by choosing to spend more on preserving health and social care programmes than the rest of the uk. the westminster government are more concerned with selling off our national assets to (often overseas) financial interests, then our common wealth is bound to decline. however, we are still a very rich country and could easily afford to properly look after the more vulnerable in our society with a more progressive system (and progressive tax system) Less wasted on vanity projects like trident, military spending generally, the monarchy or hs2 would also be a big help.
public spending can also be a very profitable way of generating business and employment. money spent on educating the workforce (as the scots successfully demonstrate) is never wasted.
when the private/financial sector completely screwed up they had to rely on us -the public sector- to bail them out. having wasted countless billions of our money they have learned that there is no risk - they won't be prosecuted and are free to come begging again next time it all goes wrong.
it is surely not beyond the wit of government to run a rich country for the benefit of all their citizens. westminster has abandoned that goal which is why many scots would like the opportunity to try to make a better job of it.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Musket
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 10:15 AM

I guess spelling it with a small a is about right for a small person. Mind you, the chances of two Scottish blokes misspelling Akhenaten and never correcting it...

Don't worry, it might be someone enjoying having a nom de plume the same as yours behaving as a civilised member of the public. This one seems to be British to the core, gay, animal rights activist and in favour of big business to help Scotland recover. He feels independence is a smoke screen for fanciful nationalists with a William Wallace fixation and no clue.

Somebody must be having a laugh..

Good to read it though. Which one reveals the real Alex?

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: akenaton
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 09:28 AM

and your point is?

I always spell akenaton with a small a......:0)

And I never comment on newspaper articles.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Musket
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 08:47 AM

This just in...

Beeing a gentleman of leisure for the foreseeable, I thought it a good idea to subscribe to a newspaper iPad edition for the in depth stuff, reviews etc.

Well....

At the end of the article there is as ever an opportunity for readers to comment.

An article about Scottish independence has a post from a person calling himself Akenaton opposing independence and saying how difficult it is to be gay when people in his neck of the woods include a few old bigots.

Excellent!

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Musket
Date: 21 Jul 14 - 03:20 AM

BL may have been on strike for a decent wage but the people "our fathers fought for" would have settled for a decent fucking car...

The nobs didn't fuck the country up. The knobs do try though. Both sides of the artificial divide. Luckily they aren't very successful. Society isn't any better or worse than before, and the austerity of post war UK makes the austerity of now seem to be something you'd rather not shout about.

Society is letting a hell of a lot of people down. Politicians can hinder rather than help that situation. But the arguments are all on the side of what to do with the money you spend on social infrastructure.

Go back a stage to how do you create that money in the first place and this chip on shoulder comparison argument goes out of the window. Any of us could propose how to turn life expectancy from 34 to 80 in many third world areas. But without wealth creation, the countries in question can't. Some actually won't. Same here. Every scheme to help society could be a success if the money was there.

Al mentions being a carer. Without family carers, social care would collapse. Take the army of unpaid carers out of the equation and you would need an extra few billion in residential care and domicillary care. You can't find that money and knock the wealth creators at the same time.

In terms of Scotland, as that particular part of The UK is in debate here, that means wealth creation to support the largest public sector per capita of the whole of The UK. Not easy without Westminster bailouts.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Jul 14 - 02:56 PM

so you reckon the amount of work we do should be reflected in our earnings......theres a novel concept.

the trouble is that inequality is enshrined and protected and ourroyal family puts the rubberstamp on it. when I suggested earlier that maybe the highland clearances were not fair and equitable - and that maybe some restitution was due to the Scottish people, I was accused of advocating 'a Mugabe type land grab'.

things are in a mess in this country, because the nobs fucked it up. they'd bitch about the unions at British Leyland striking for a decent wage - but the poor sods were flogging themselves to death on sixty year old track. cos there was no investment.

they had all the power and they will take NO responsibility for getting things right.its always the fault of the spendthrift working classes.

i'm retired now pretty much. I do a pubgig when its offered. but I worked hard all my working life and from the age of twenty seven, I've been my wife's carer. saved the country thousands by not leaving her and putting her in a home.

do I think I got the full measure of what my Dad drove Sherman tank for and saved this country from Hitler = penny for penny maybe. but did they owe and do they still owe - you betcha!

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Musket
Date: 20 Jul 14 - 01:49 PM

Aye, whatever.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: GUEST,achmelvich
Date: 20 Jul 14 - 12:38 PM

musket - are you calling the poor filth? really? there is probably a wee bit more compassion around in scotland. hope so, anyway...or we're al doomed

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: akenaton
Date: 20 Jul 14 - 11:09 AM

Bubbly....shurely shome mishtake?? Ian says Scots are all lovely helpful gay people.....except me of course!! :0)

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Musket
Date: 20 Jul 14 - 08:35 AM

Akenaton just said that if you are wealthy, you'd let the poor die in the street.

Not much point in engaging with filth.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: bubblyrat
Date: 20 Jul 14 - 06:32 AM

If you want to know how efficient Scotland is today,let alone after beakaway , then try booking a seat/berth on the night train to Scotland !! As soon as Scotrail staff twig that you're a Sassenach ,you've had it !! I had to cancel a much fancied holiday aboard a Clyde Puffer ( actually a former RN Victualling Inshore Craft or VIC and it doesn't "puff" either !) because every time we tried to GET to Scotland in the first bloody place we had nothing but frustration from sullen,unhelpul,staff .The vessel's "skipper " (an Englishman ) told me he had the same problems getting from Inverness to England with Scotrail !! Come on,Jock; buck your ideas up !!

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: akenaton
Date: 20 Jul 14 - 03:56 AM

The only reason that there are any benefits at all under this system, is to continue its survival.

If is was in the interests of the wealthy to let the poor die in the streets, they would certainly do so.
Benefits are simply used as a tool to keep the masses quiet, but as we can see, that soon becomes unsustainable and capital moves on.
That's where national pride self responsibility and a different mindset about life and values comes in.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Musket
Date: 20 Jul 14 - 03:40 AM

Al thinks money should come his way without having to work for it. He hadn't worked out it is trade and markets alone that allow any social welfare system to exist. Ugly? No. Real politik.

Akenaton speaks of tourism in one breath and berates those of us developing Scottish tourism the next. The Scottish government see me as an investor in the future of Scotland. Mrs Musket and I received an invitation to a weekend at Gleneagles next month courtesy of Akenaton's tax bill. We can't make it , and having politicos fawning over you isn't really my scene. We stay there on our way to the North most years anyway.

By the way, not having a vote does not mean not having an interest. Unless wealth is actually created, success is at the cost of failure elsewhere.

Just to remind people. Scottish people do not get a vote. People registered in Scotland do. Far different thing with such a small population.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: GUEST,achmelvich
Date: 20 Jul 14 - 03:13 AM

sorry,you've lost me there, al.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 Jul 14 - 09:27 PM

oh yes we all remember that.........the market that couldn't be bucked.

its right up there with the Jim'll Fix It medal.

you've heard of the ghost in the machine - that was the shit in the machine.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: akenaton
Date: 19 Jul 14 - 08:23 PM

Not only are the statements made by Mr Hague on foreign affairs, pathetic, but also dangerous and destructive.

The support for "liberal" elements in Libya and Syria have been a complete disaster and have led directly to the rise of radical Islam over the Middle East and North Africa.

The less we try to "influence world opinion" the better for everyone.

As far as trade is concerned, Scotland has nothing to fear. We are a strong brand, and produce services, energy, food and luxury articles that the whole world is eager to buy.
We have our history, beautiful land and seascapes etc, which will encourage tourism when properly promoted by a Scottish government.

Most importantly, we will have a government which reflects the will of the Scottish people....

It is interesting that those on this thread who are most strongly opposed to Scottish independence are those who have no vote and no real interest in the future of Scotland, or her people.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Musket
Date: 19 Jul 14 - 05:22 PM

I'm not worried that you agree or disagree.

You are entitled to your view as I am mine.

But to international trade, very important. Without The UK apron strings, even more so.

My cat calling and piss taking has a serious point. Without facts, it isn't a case of voting no, it is grossly irresponsible to vote at all. The referendum should be based on what independence means, not what a politician tries to convince people it means.

Saying others will change their stance whilst he will remain wedded to his is not what intelligent people will vote for.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: GUEST,achmelvich
Date: 19 Jul 14 - 02:59 PM

i don't agree that 'influence' on the world stage is the most important thing. in fact compared to the well-being of the people in a nation it is of no importance whatsoever. the last time i can recall the uk making a stance on anything in europe was on the right to not cap bankers' bonuses. in my memory our government have never taken a stance on anything that was contrary to the interests of the american military/industrial elite.
whenever i see eg william hague making some portentious statement on eg syria it just seems pathetic. i imagine that not one government - or probably one individual - with real influence could give a damn what our spokesmen say. europeans despair at our attitude and americans know we will just agree so don't care.
understanding our place in the modern world and attending to what is most important are better indicators of being grown up.
england and scotland are great places for most of us to be but the mark of a successful and civilized nation is how it looks after the vulnerable and least fortunate.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Musket
Date: 19 Jul 14 - 01:59 PM

You have to born in order to begin to grow up.

Scotland may have been a principality a few hundred years ago, but hasn't had an embassy since it set one up on the Darian venture. The rest of the world only knows Scotland as a country from Hollywood sources.

Least said soonest mended eh?

My point was that The UK is a player. When we make a stance, the world listens. Might have a laugh but it listens. Who listens to Bulgaria? After all, it is a country and is a present member of The EU.

Got a much higher population and land mass than Scotland and is strategically in an important place on the map.

That's what I mean by grown up. Influence. Something you need to turn groats into porridge.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: GUEST,achmelvich
Date: 19 Jul 14 - 11:01 AM

in what sense is scotland not a grown up country? do you think the current westminster lot have a grown up view eg of life; europe; human rights; the world? and you want these self-interested eejits to continue to 'look after' feckless wee scotland? you are a weird one.....

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Musket
Date: 19 Jul 14 - 10:24 AM

In Victorian times, the wallpaper and paint was toxic and lowered life expectancy.

If the Celtic tiger {snigger} wins, you are stuck with the wave he will ride on all the way till grown up countries agree to bale Scotland out subject to the usual usury rates.

See the other "Celtic economies for details.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: GUEST,achmelvich
Date: 19 Jul 14 - 05:17 AM

hello dave gnome

re: your friends frae dunkeld - are they being a wee bit hysterical here? salmond the 'devil incarnate'? really? i can think of a few people who seem a good deal more evil or dangerous than him. seems like a quite inoffensive and canny bloke to me. anyway, it's not a referundum on alec salmond. for scots with the choice to make, i recently read a bit about if you were thinking of buying your dream house would you choose not to if you didn't like the wallpaper in the front room? salmond is the wallpaper - buy the house and change the wallpaper. your friends need to calm down a bit -give them a large whisky or some free prescription sedatives

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Musket
Date: 19 Jul 14 - 03:22 AM

"We" being people happening to live in Scotland as of a certain date in September. Salmond didn't even manage to negotiate a vote for Scottish people. Cameron wiped his arse with him in the negotiations. The only time Cameron has shown us he has a pair of balls and can win something.

Still, the opposition wasn't as hard as a room full of school children.

You know, I do blame Thatcher for lots and would dance on her grave if they had been foolish enough to give her one, even with my trademark miner's dodgy knees. But again, we blame her yet it was the stock market that kept the pound strong and UK manufacturing weak. Salmond is promising that Scotland would want a strong currency so the oil dollars get a good exchange.

I suppose next he will be saying a strong groat / whatever makes package tours from Prestwick more affordable.

Meanwhile, nobody wants to buy empty industrial units. I could have bought half of Cumbernauld (Deerdyke industrial area) for what I paid for a few old fisherman's cottages the other week, but industry is toxic until this blows over.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: akenaton
Date: 19 Jul 14 - 02:58 AM

Achmelvich....don't lose hope, I agree very much about Scotland being socially conservative, but that is a positive in many ways.
Remember the huge last minute swing when the SNP came to power.

Scots don't like to be bullied or told how to vote by non-Scots, they seldom follow UK voting patterns.

Unfortunately there is some debris from the historic sectarian feud, which I thought had been binned long ago, allied to the English "carpetbaggers".....it'll be close.


Al....if we win our freedom, you are going to be made an honorary Scot

Big Al MacWhittle...   :0)

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 18 Jul 14 - 08:40 PM

I think the big problem with your analysis Teribus is that it encourages government to be very idle - to shrug its shoulders and see nothing to be done. TINA to doing nothing.

if all our problems are due to the individual - then Thatcher was right to lose 28 per cent of manufacturing industry in one year. and as John Harvey Jones pointed out - some of tHose businesses were good businesses - they had problems - but it was irresponsible to just say nothing to be done.

governments do that too much anyway. its their duty to address the problems we face. not just walk away.

nothing to be done about the economically depressed parts of Britain. to use your own phrase...BULLSHIT!
its not individuals who need to get off their arses, its government. they're a bloody disgrace! Scotland couldn't do any worse on its own. it a beautiful country and its going to waste.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: GUEST,Stuart Pond, north of Watford
Date: 18 Jul 14 - 06:03 PM

"Congratulations. Here, have a black pudding."

Why a black pudding?

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: GUEST,achmelvich
Date: 18 Jul 14 - 05:14 PM

2 of my children live in edinburgh and don't know anyone who is voting no. however, they don't expect the yes vote to win. maybe it's the old progressive v conservative and unionist argument again. and scotland, like the rest of the uk is, sadly, mostly small c conservative. shame, i think it would be interesting. surely we don't always have to be run by tories.......

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Jul 14 - 04:59 PM

Someone once told me that Achmelvich was like Arbroath without the smokies. Anyway...

Just had the immense pleasure of playing host to a family from Dunkeld. Who reckon Salmond is the devil incarnate. Up to now that is 7 Scots I know who will be voting no. True, I don't know many more but things are looking up for common sense.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: GUEST,achmelvich
Date: 18 Jul 14 - 03:34 PM

i live north of watford - cockermouth, cumbria, scotland. not achmelvich - no-one lives in achmelvich

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Musket
Date: 18 Jul 14 - 01:35 PM

Congratulations. Here, have a black pudding.

I reckon there are a few thousand towns and villages far away from London, and I picked one at random. I have to admit, I certainly didn't expect anyone to read any further into it than that....