BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?

Subject: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 09 Jul 14 - 04:08 PM

There only seems to be about a 50% fatality rate, way better than the usual 90-95%, but still - I read the Hot Zone and worry.

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Jul 14 - 05:44 PM

I heard the death rate is still around 90%. But there are common-sense ways to avoid catching it, like not taking the body home and then everyone touching it during the funeral.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 Jul 14 - 08:12 AM

Quite alarming, given its transmissibility.

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 10 Jul 14 - 11:23 AM

SRS makes a good point. In many cultures, it would not be transmitted to nearly the same extent.

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: GUEST,Mrr at work
Date: 10 Jul 14 - 05:41 PM

From today's internet just now quote "WHO reporting 844 cases including 518 deaths since the epidemic began in March" I get .614 which is great, for ebola, way lower than usual. I think. Why aren't the international airports in West Africa all closed?

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 10 Jul 14 - 05:50 PM

Because it isn't airborne and when you are contagious it is pretty clear that you are ill? It isn't a first world disease. I would think that if you can afford to fly, you are probably much less inclined to catch it.

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: Jeri
Date: 10 Jul 14 - 06:20 PM

Travel Health Notice, from Canada:

The risk of infection is low for most travellers, although the risk may increase for those who are working in a health care setting since most human infections result from direct contact with the bodily fluids of infected patients. The Public Health Agency of Canada recommends travellers avoid all direct contact with a person or corpse infected with the Ebola virus. Also, avoid contact with or handling an animal suspected of having Ebola. Travellers should immediately seek medical attention at the first sign of illness.

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: Janie
Date: 10 Jul 14 - 10:53 PM

I've been following this moderately closely - national NPR programing, as well as local programming on WUNC (local NPR affiliate) have had some good coverage on 2-3 shows recently regarding both the cultural barriers and technology barriers to getting information out that would 1. decrease the likelihood of spreading the virus and 2. lead to identifying and getting people who have been infected to treatment facilities much more quickly.

I wonder if the better stats for survival reflect the spread to more populous areas where people who develop symptoms may be identified more quickly and treated earlier in the course of the disease?

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 11 Jul 14 - 08:09 PM

you had better have an immediate and thorough way of disposing of the bodies, which might conflict with cultural customs, but nevertheless do it. I presume burning but I don't know for sure. You have to save the living and the medical workers.

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: Janie
Date: 11 Jul 14 - 10:27 PM

And how would you get that message out and make sure your instructions are followed, mg?

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: Janie
Date: 11 Jul 14 - 10:37 PM

Want to make clear I am not being sarcastic. I agree, mg, that following those practices would reduce the spread of the disease. One can not simply bark orders, clap one's hands, and 'make it so,' however.
Actually, in some few countries, a ruler (very strong-armed dictator) can come very close to do that.

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 12 Jul 14 - 02:17 PM

Start with martial law. Set up quarantine areas. Protect the water supply from bodies. Burn all trash and human and animal waste. Kill or control animals that could eat bodies. Ask for international help.   Get any militia,police military involved. Get churches, witchdoctors, healers involved. Limit people assembling. Design rituals that honor the deceased but protect the living. Get any radio or broadcast and cell phone messages going. If there is air power drop body bags, gloves, beach, big tongs or whatever to move the dead. Move rapidly to isolate the sick and dead and clear land so animals can not get in. Provide whatever comfort is possible to victims but focus always on halting spread of disease.

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 12 Jul 14 - 02:29 PM

I would also get with the diaspora of whatever country, esoecially doctors, nurses, clergy, famous actresses, sports figures..well also those in the country and have them contact all they could..giving explanations of what was required to save their lives.

Bark orders and clap hands. Have whistles and bullhorns. It is your first line of defense. If there is internet take pictures and videos and ask advice. I have barked orders before and will again if needed

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: GUEST,Mrr at work
Date: 17 Jul 14 - 06:29 PM

It is unclear how airborne it can be, see the Hot Zone for a terrifying read.

Now numbers are (from Google News' Ebola heading)
As of July 12, the cumulative number of Ebola virus cases in Guinea, Liberia and Sierra Leone was at 964, including 603 deaths. The death toll has almost doubled in a month's time; reported deaths in the three countries in mid-June was 350.

603/964 still only about .62 death rate, still very low for Ebola. And I am finally hearing about RCI not allowing refugees from the stricken areas across the border - (1) about time and (2) yikes, they need refuge.

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 17 Jul 14 - 07:00 PM

getting people who have been infected to treatment facilities much more quickly

There are no treatment facilities for Ebola. All medical staff can do is act as jailers for the dying.

There are very good reasons for hiding from the medical "care" system with a disease like this (as there were during the First World cholera epidemics of the 19th century).

What's needed is some kind of cheap portable containment that can be taken to people's homes to reduce the risk of spread without subjecting people's relatives to a lonely death in a concentration camp.

Start with martial law. Set up quarantine areas.

The sort of thinking that the mg's of the Middle Ages used when burning Jews to stop the plague.

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: GUEST,#
Date: 17 Jul 14 - 08:49 PM

"I have barked orders before and will again if needed"

Did anyone listen?

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 17 Jul 14 - 10:03 PM

Yes.

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 17 Jul 14 - 10:18 PM

There are treatment centers and WHO is involved in some. It sounds like not much can.be done except rehydration and i hope nutrition and palliative care. Some people have recovered enough to be released. But quarantine has to be done in a disease this virulant. Any of us could have to be quarantined..our ancestors surely were against cholera, scarlet fever, diptheria etc. I suspect a cure of sorts exists...some aromatherapy products are quite antiviral. Coconut has antiviral properties and ks said.to.burst the viral membrane. Medicine does not seem to do too well against viruses but keep trying. Lead, follow or get out.of the way and dont say nothing can be done. Put our heads together and see what we come up with. Could be coming soon go a tlwn near you.

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 17 Jul 14 - 11:30 PM

Time will tell.

Keep yourself healthy, eat right and sleep right.

Of far greater, current concern, is the MERS out of the middle east at the end of the Hajj Pilgrimage.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

sjjjhlepping with camels is satisfying and far worth the risk.

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 25 Jul 14 - 05:57 PM

Ebola has reached Lagos, Africa's most populated city.

Article

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 25 Jul 14 - 08:08 PM

I am going to read up on ultraviolet light. I think it was used on viruses.

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 26 Jul 14 - 02:07 PM

Have WHO been chasing the other people on the plane to with that one poor vic? I don't seem to be able to find out.

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: Ebbie
Date: 27 Jul 14 - 03:52 AM

It is reported today that a 33-year old US doctor has tested positive for the disease in Liberia. He is under treatment in a hospital.

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 27 Jul 14 - 04:28 AM

Yes, a lot of medical personnel treating ebola patients get infected, it's the nature of the disease.

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 27 Jul 14 - 03:11 PM

I am finding myself annoyed (to put it mildly) at headlines in US press about how "2 Americans have Ebola!" like, oh, *now* we care?

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: gnu
Date: 27 Jul 14 - 05:08 PM

4 countries now?

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 06:15 AM

A bit more here on medical personnel and the risks they face:

Top Liberian doctor becomes latest vitctim of ebola outbreak

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 11:36 AM

Brave people. We need more of these, Kirk, many more.

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 04:25 PM

West African countries announce new measures to stop ebola spread

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 29 Jul 14 - 04:02 PM

And today, doctor at the forefront of the fight against the disease in Sierra Leone dies: Article

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Jul 14 - 06:14 PM

UK's Chief Medical Officer now feels it's only a matter of time before it escapes Africa: the Lagos case flew from Liberia, there has been at least one case where the family "liberated" the patient.

The virus is not contagious in the incubation period, but once symptoms appear, the very nature of the symptoms (bleeding from mucilaginous tissues, principally mouth, nose and bum) leads to gross propagation of the virus. In particular, irritation can cause coughing up of blood in aerosol form, which can migrate. One study has also shown that the worst form can transmit by air.

Sadly, the UK's isolation hospitals have almost all been converted into flats (Colney Hatch, Enfield Highlands). I don't think I'd like to own one of those if the need has to be reversed...

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: Greg F.
Date: 29 Jul 14 - 06:19 PM

They'll pay attention once it shows up in a "first world" country.

Until then, dead wogs won't bother anyone.

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: Janie
Date: 29 Jul 14 - 10:50 PM

I dunno, Mrrzy, maybe I just don't read the right news. I'm not much of a news hound, for the most part just listen to NPR and scan the headlines of a few mainstream media outlets on line. But I don't think more than 3 or 4 days have gone by since this outbreak began that I haven't seen or heard front page news regarding it- maybe not one of the top 5 stories, but still front page.

As of mid July, since the Ebola virus first appeared and was identified in humans in 1976(?) there were 3584 confirmed human cases known to the world, of which 2270 people died. (I know both numbers have gone up in the last 2 weeks, and will continue to climb in the course of this current outbreak.) Obviously a very deadly disease. But when countries, especially African countries regarding Ebola, decide how to use resources (or how they want helper countries to use resources) for research or public health, they have obviously had to focus on more prevalent and widespread diseases that threaten and kill many more people (at least so far.) Think Malaria. Think AIDS. Think Cholera.

Because the virus is so rare and clinical trials on humans so very expensive, pharmaceutical companies have not been much involved - they would go bankrupt very quickly from the cost of the trials, given the very limited potential market for any vaccine or drugs developed.

Because the USA identified the virus as a potential bioterrorism weapon against which our government desires to develop the means to protect our own population, the US government has by far been the largest spender on research - Dept. of Defense, NIH and NIAID. There doesn't appear to be any central place to look to find total funding of research by US tax dollars so I can't quote figures. Found two grant projects going back to 2007 that add up to about $132 million. I expect there are more dollars that are included in grants to study multiple diseases in the same category. That is not a lot of money - except it is a lot of money in proportion to the actual number of infections and deaths caused by Ebola over the past 40 years until now when compared to tax funded research per infected person for other diseases historically.

Regardless of the original motives that can get Congress to appropriate funds, the research is not proprietary, as would be the case with for profit funded research, and the USA has an excellent record of sharing health related publicly funded research freely, and to encourage use of such findings as are made to promote public health and disease prevention around the world.

I am certain, in addition to the many health care volunteers from around the world, including the USA, that our CDC, DOD, NIH, NIAID and a number of other federal agencies, not to mention knowledgeable people at university research centers around the country and around the world, are offering all the assistance and expertise they can and that is accepted, to the countries in Africa experiencing this current outbreak.

Let me confess, neither my doctor brother-in-law nor my doctor nephew are in Africa now, treating Ebola patients. But their specialties would not make them very useful treating infectious diseases in general- both are anesthesiologists. But both have been to Africa several times with different aid organizations. I am acquainted with 3 doctors and 2 nurses who recently returned from treating Ebola patients in west Africa. I know many other health care providers who yearly take time from their regular practice to volunteer in Africa and other 3rd world countries to provide health care that never makes the news. I know other health care professionals at the university medical centers in my region who are spending much time and effort in training and consulting with "people on the ground." These individuals who make the choice to go put boots on the ground are able to do this because of networks of others - family, friends, church or synagogue or mosque or ashram, colleagues in their private practices or at their institutions or employers, and the institutions or employers themselves, some governmental, some with some governmental funding, some entirely private or corporate, who support them. Money, supplies, expertise, computers or computer networks - all manner of in kind help and support.

And where I live and who I know is not unique in terms of our society or our locale. So don't tell me, Greg, that "dead wogs won't bother anyone." You insult countless people and institutions with that blanket, ignorant, thoughtless, statement. Not just in the USA, but in first world countries where ever they are.

Mrrzy, mg, and Gref F. Do you donate time or money to efforts to help others? You may well do so.

mg, while I am sure your measures would be effective, I am always struck by what seems to me a very simplistic paradigm that does not give any weight to cultural differences or the rights of individuals. That dynamic between the social and the individual is always a messy and ever shifting fulcrom, but not to you. I respect and understand you are entitled to your paradigm, but it is pretty scary to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Jul 14 - 11:57 PM

My familial sources with the NIH and CDC makes my awareness of the situation in Liberia only slightly better than Janie who has a realistic handle on the current out of control scourge of Ebola.

The suggestions by mg are but some of the tools that used to be the strengths of WHO and the CDC but since the take over by megalomaniac financiers the budgets of the CDC has been cut three times over and is currently weaker than FEMA before Katrina. Who has also suffered an economic collapse since member countries have not paid their dues since all the money has been concentrated among a very greedy few.

Money desperately needed by the CDC is now spent by our Congress to investigate the CDC instead of funding them.

Liberia does not have the resources to even put people in quarantine.
The next sudden surge of Ebola is expected when the countries of Nigeria and Senegal experience contact infections which has not yet begun despite examples of a returning traveler dying in Nigeria.

Believe me the budget concerns I mentioned are paramount in both the runaway early infectious spread of Ebola and next waging a global response which is currently economically impossible. Not to put too sharp an economic point on this historic outbreak, but Wall St. took more than schools, libraries, food pantries, homes and main street business. They took lives beyond measure by shrinking the CDC to less than a third of their budget. It has made for a perfect storm of an inability to respond effectively. The non chalance by Liberia to respond in dangerous.

The accurate numbers regarding mortality rates range from 60 to 70 percent and only rises to 90% in cultures that traditionally wash the dead.

10 years ago I wrote about Ebola out breaks and bio warfare right here on Mudcat along with other unsavory future risks. I was told to stop it. Futurist discussions quickly broke down when I inartfully used the word prophesize instead of deduce or reasonably deduce. Still Ebola is a subject like nuclear weapons. It is about when, not if.
Most of my favorite disaster discussions back then such as economic collapse, corporate pathology, fresh water doomed by gas drilling and of course disease, today have their own Nat Geo TV series.

In short Ebola is officially out of control and is months away from a burn out of all infectious people. Short of a terrorist intentionally bringing Ebola to the US we stand a good chance of keeping our shores safe. The only animals to transfer Ebola to man are a few primates and bats. Bats have had a recent die off in the DC area from a fungus epidemic or synthetic nicotine pesticide. Bats to the north were first effected.

The worst enemy to our response at this point is Congress. Obama could be the executive order hero to the world except for Republicans0 if he responds quickly.

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: Donuel
Date: 31 Jul 14 - 12:26 AM

btw Ultra violet light will work on BACTERIA control but not on virus so small that it can be measured in angstroms or wave lengths.

People lets not let the Dustin Hoffman movie Outbreak go to your head.
Still, this has not been a very lucky month so far.

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: Donuel
Date: 31 Jul 14 - 03:02 AM

BBC reports: from the Liberian minister of information:
There will be a 30 day suspension for Liberian workers. The Liberian Army (security force) will enforce limited movement of people who may be fleeing for various reasons. They call these actions as tough and extreme. A call for quarantine has been made again despite the difficulty of staffing select schools that are being repurposed.

Think for a moment and thank the nurses and doctors who are working at the front lines of this war on certain death. The Von Stauffenberg like courage it takes to suit up in plastic field protection and duct tape in 115 degree heat and then remove the protective garb one glove at a time and then the hood and suit with bare hands. These are not like the NASA like suits with separate air supply. They are thin and up to usual disposable standards.
These few nurses and doctors are all that stand between you and the virus that takes 6 or 7 days to incubate and then presents with a preliminary 101 fever that is exactly the same as normal flu symptoms.

So far the global response is far less than what Haiti received after their earth quake and we all know how inadequate that was.

Congress leaves Washington tomorrow and the only sure vote that will be taken is to sue Obama.

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 31 Jul 14 - 10:20 AM

Yes. My life has been on the line since i was twenty to go wherever i was sent. I have monthly autokatic payments to mercy corps, catholic relief, portland rescue mission, and i contribite to heifer and smiletrain when i can. I built a water well in chad.

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 31 Jul 14 - 10:34 AM

Furthermore i beg your pardon but i am highly offended. I have worked for departments of epidemiology and infectious diseases. There are things you have to do. If you dont many more people will suffer and die.

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 31 Jul 14 - 02:52 PM

I have also made 112 Kiva loans in 48 countries not that I consider this to be anybody's business.

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: Jeri
Date: 31 Jul 14 - 05:25 PM

In 2012, one disease killed 460 000 children before their fifth birthdays.

482,000 CHILDREN,
in ONE YEAR

There were 207,000,000 estimated cases that year.

The disease: malaria.
It's fairly preventable, so it's not really much of a threat to "us". It's also treatable, has a much lower fatality rate, and the symptoms are, IMO, quite a bit less terrifying than Ebola virus disease.

Malaria is already endemic in many parts of the world*, and I think it's important to prevent Ebola from spreading. Consider, however, what we're accustomed to when it comes to malaria.

Once it was endemic in North America, and is partially responsible for the USA defeated the British in the American Revolution.

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 31 Jul 14 - 05:39 PM

Don't count your chickens yet where malaria is concerned, it is generally believed climate change is already extending the range of the disease into first world countries.

And full drug resistant Tuberculosis is a large headache for epidemiologists looking towards the near future.

Meanwhile, the present ebola outbreak has so far claimed 729 lives and Measures against disease are increased.

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: Greg F.
Date: 31 Jul 14 - 06:01 PM

Gref F. Do you donate time or money to efforts to help others? You may well do so.

Yes, Janie, I do - quite a lot of both in fact and on a regular basis every week and sometimes every day, thank you.

So don't tell me, Greg, that "dead wogs won't bother anyone."

You are giving a vast number of people a great deal more credit than they deserve, Janie. Spend more time in the real world.

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: Greg F.
Date: 31 Jul 14 - 06:05 PM

Re the above, Janie, re-read your own comments about how the first world views Malaria and its death toll...

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: Greg F.
Date: 31 Jul 14 - 06:08 PM

Or for that matter, African Trypanosomiasis.

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: Janie
Date: 31 Jul 14 - 09:22 PM

I didn't make any comments, Greg, re how the 1st world views Malaria and its death toll.

I commented that in terms of the governments of African countries and their decisions regarding how to direct both their own resources and foreign aid, those countries, at least until now with this much larger outbreak of Ebola, have given much higher priority to public health measures for diseases other than Ebola for some sound reasons from the perspective of how to deploy public health resources based on numbers of deaths within a given population. I used malaria, AIDS and cholera as 3 examples of diseases that have posed a much greater health threat to the populations of many African countries in terms of numbers infected and numbers killed thus far.

mg, I am sorry you are offended. That was certainly not my intention. I asked a question that you chose to answer. I appreciate that you did answer, but you had no obligation to do so. I also tried to convey clearly that I was inquiring, not challenging. I admire your practicality. I also think I place more value on individual choice than do you. We are simply different about that. That doesn't make either of us right or wrong - I think the success of our species has been largely due to the diversity among us as well as the dynamic balance between the individual and the social. You and I weigh in on different points and on different sides of that dynamic scale. I mistakenly thought it possible for me to express my own discomfort with your position that focuses more on the benefits of social control and less on the costs without you taking personal offense. I was wrong. I happen to think it important to humankind for people to be able to acknowledge, confront and discuss these differences in perspective in order for us to continue to be a successful species. Again, I am sorry you are offended.

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Jul 14 - 09:29 PM

Nicely put, Janie, from one who wasn't involved with the offense...

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 31 Jul 14 - 09:56 PM

The virus is past through contact with bodily fluids.

Count yourself blessed to be in a region WITHOUT recycled waste-water.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Imagine...one defective, "water treatment plant" on line to a hospital ... sprinkling the morning dew of county golf courses?

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: Janie
Date: 31 Jul 14 - 10:27 PM

There is no such thing as "risk free" Garg. Your comment invites the observation, however, that we in more resource rich countries live with much less risk, and are therefore less intolerant of risk. "Higher standards of living" could be understood to mean, in one respect, being more protected from risk. Also feeling more entitled to protection from risk? Wondering how realistic that sense of entitlement is.

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: GUEST,.gargoye
Date: 31 Jul 14 - 10:47 PM

Janie,

Your posting makes no sense.

Do you understand that recycled water is piss from the hospitals and baby poo from the toilets....and that little men at big plants determine wether it is fit to atomize across entire city scapes?

How much error time is needed? 10 hour, 10 minutes, 10 seconds.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

I won't view below the line...I won't I won't.

Subject: RE: BS: Anybody else watching Ebola break out?
From: Janie
Date: 31 Jul 14 - 11:05 PM

Sorry it doesn't make sense to you, Gargoyle. Maybe it only makes sense to me.

All the best,

J