Folk Clubs Dying Out

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: The Sandman
Date: 03 Aug 14 - 07:58 AM

well done bathfolk fest, a positive response.

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Aug 14 - 07:16 AM

Sorry - the website you need is www.bathfolkfestival.org.
Too many late nights- don't know what I'm doing!!!!

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: GUEST,bathfolkfest
Date: 03 Aug 14 - 07:10 AM

In Bath we've realized that the only way to keep folk alive is to get kids involved. We run workshops for 8-18 year olds and have just got Arts Council funding to set up a youth band. The band will be performing their first gig alongside Ards CCE(the highly acclaimed youth band from Ireland) as part of the Bath Folk Festival(9th -17th August.) We also run a traditional summer school as part of the festival which is open to adults and children. It's a great way for people to practise new skills or maybe rekindle those that are a bit rusty. If you're in the area we would be delighted for you to join us- lots of great headline acts, sessions on every afternoon and evening, ceilidhs etc etc. If you're not local you can camp for £30 for the whole festival. Check out the website if you want to find out more www.bathfolkfest.org Hope to see some of you there.

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 03 Aug 14 - 07:01 AM

That previous post was in response to:

gone are the days when Christy Moore could embark on a two month tour of Lancashire.

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 03 Aug 14 - 06:58 AM



On the other hand, he now manages to sell out runs of several nights in venues seating thousands in a matter of hours.

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: GUEST,FloraG
Date: 03 Aug 14 - 06:39 AM

Al - you make me ponder about how much demand there is -and is it growing or declining? I looked at the Broadstairs programme and was surprised to see very few of what I would think of as headliners. As most people buy season tickets my thoughts were - are they cutting back on the cost of these acts?
FloraG.

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 03 Aug 14 - 06:20 AM

and again - lets face it - there are no longer (for whatever reason) enough clubs to support all of us who perform.

gone are the days when Christy Moore could embark on a two month tour of Lancashire.

so that means either the musicians, those of us who wish to attain some proficiency in our music, the kind that comes from devoting your life - either we find work outside folkclubs. or its just an absorbing hobby.

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 02 Aug 14 - 09:28 AM

is that right. I wonder. aren't we better at home listening to Paul Brady sing Arthur Mcbride or Peggy and the Soldier on the stereo, than the last few versions I've heard.

the folk club -   sometimes - well it puts you under a microscope -sometimes the scrutiny doesn't help some performers.

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: Jack Campin
Date: 02 Aug 14 - 09:28 AM

How many folk clubs ever get rid of their MC?

How many pension-age MCs ever get rid of their decades-old presentation style?

I'm sure a lot of younger people would find the acts in a folk club just fine, but wouldn't get past the toe-curling introductions by geriatrics who sound like a cross between Jimmy Savile and a church fete bingo caller.

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Aug 14 - 09:11 AM

"And, although people have moaned for years about 'library-like atmosphere' and so on, those small acoustic spaces were and are probably the best place to put over a ballad and get rapt attention from an audience."
absolutely because the audience have come specifically to LISTEN to the music

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: Brian Peters
Date: 02 Aug 14 - 07:53 AM

Betsy's first post is very true but I also agree with what Vic Smith sais some way back. Although the home-made music and choruses were very much a part of what turned me on to this stuff, it was also a huge thrill to able to watch really top-notch singers and musicians performing jut a few feet away, in a room maybe just twice the size of my living room. And, although people have moaned for years about 'library-like atmosphere' and so on, those small acoustic spaces were and are probably the best place to put over a ballad and get rapt attention from an audience.

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: Betsy
Date: 02 Aug 14 - 06:13 AM

Hi Padge , you forgot to insert " Sam Smiths " Pubs.
OK -- I'm just being a bit mischievous.
A number of us (varying between 8 and 12) meet on Mondays in a pub.
Some good musicians, and, anyone can sing what the F8ck he or she wants, when and for as many songs as they want.
It really works - tunes the same.
The Landlord populates an empty space, and punters listen, come and go
and of course spend a few bob on "pop".
If the same musicians went to a Folk Club they'd have to pay a couple of quid entrance privilege, and need to hang about to sing one song or a couple of tunes, but THAT suits some people.
Padge I'll see ya next weekend at Saltburn mate.
Dick ,I'm thrilled that we seem to concur - not 100%, but that's good enough for me ( and you ) I hope.

Cheers

Betsy

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: GUEST,Mandoman77
Date: 02 Aug 14 - 06:01 AM

Betsy, a pretty good critique if I might say so, everything you say highlights the problem others seem to deny.

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: r.padgett
Date: 02 Aug 14 - 04:39 AM

Get out into the pubs in your area on a weekend having asked the publican if they would like live folk music and song, publicise it in music shops, colleges and shop windows


Play and sing and wait for the response

Ray

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Aug 14 - 04:06 AM

"For me, the P.A. in a smallish room has created an amateur "X factor" feel."
correct, please forgive me Betsy for agreeing with you,I wouldnt want you to by association be accused of making a stupid comment.
"There was originally much merit in chorus singing, and, effort by performers to " get the chorus across", all done without the aid of a P.A. system which has to my mind created a barrier between performer(s) and audience in smallish (max 100 folk) rooms"
agreed , with the proviso there still is much merit.

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: Betsy
Date: 01 Aug 14 - 06:12 PM

When I was a kid my mam used to take my Nanna to something called a Darby and Joan Club ( early 1950's) "What for Mam ?". My mam explained that she met other peope her age and talked about local things - only they knew about. The also had cups of tea , biscuits and a sing song.
(Those were extremely austere times don't forget).
I see a bit of a parallel here in that the Folk clubs seem to comprise people who have retired or are reaching that stage.
Young ones seem reluctant to engage unless they are given the opportunity to perform and preferably paid.
Also in the mix are many people who have taken up the guitar and want to perform with their beloved Lowdens , Taylors or Martins, which many of them only play to a very basic standard.
They want to on THAT STAGE and who can blame or deny them?
Organisers are delighted to have their numbers in attendance and it also helps develop a social side and friendship within the Club. However , as with the Darby and Joan club situation, the Folk club will slowly die out in its' present format as a natural part of social decay.
It may well re-invent itself, but I fear that, todays young people lack( no fault of theirs-just times are different) the things which drove-on the "revival generation" , and e.g. those songs ( which many of us find a pain in the arse now ) i.e. the Wild rover etc etc were an absolute wonder when first we were exposed to them.
There was originally much merit in chorus singing, and, effort by performers to " get the chorus across", all done without the aid of a P.A. system which has to my mind created a barrier between performer(s) and audience in smallish (max 100 folk) rooms.
I still rejoice at listening to Christy Moore , Barbara Dickson , Maddy Prior with Tim Hart , Aly Bain , Matthews Bothers , Carthy - he list is endless - all performing witout P.A.
For me, the P.A. in a smallish room has created an amateur "X factor" feel.
Affluence has been a contributory factor in my thoughts about the Subject matter ,and I'm left with a song which was compiled by Gene Raskin (spelling ) which was rarely sang at folk clubs - because it entered the hit parade and I shall sing it whenever I think about all the lovely people I've ever met in the Folk scene over these last 50 years - " Those were the days my friend(s) ".
If I look to the future and don't forget our British society is rapidly changing from the WASP (plenty of Catholics as well!!) of the REVIVAL, my guess would be that there will be acoustic clubs ( with P.A.) which will incorporate Folk music (as we generally term it) and combine it with the likes of the Beatles, Kinks and other enjoyable music which young folk might regard as nostalgic and entertaining. Who knows ???
The Folk clubs are coming to a dignified end, purely related to the ages of their attendees - no worries - let's hope it's just like a dying fire and that there's still plenty of wood around to get it blazing again.
Might see yaz at Saltburn next weekend Friday 8th August if not , all enjoy what you're doing .
Cheers Betsy

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: GUEST,Mandoman77
Date: 01 Aug 14 - 12:00 PM

ED you make a good point, whereas Good Soldier Schweik, can only make stupid comments

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 31 Jul 14 - 07:18 PM

I've read this entire thread, and can only come to a single conclusion. Things pass.

Let it go. Does anyone in the pop world still try to hang on to The 2i's Coffee Bar? Of course not. Things change.

Folk music is alive and vibrant amongt young people. Rejoice in that, and don't expect it to be as it was before. That will only bring disappointment.

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: The Sandman
Date: 31 Jul 14 - 07:14 PM

thats your problem, mando man go and see your analyst.

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: GUEST,Mandoman77
Date: 31 Jul 14 - 06:46 PM

True people always have and always will get together and create music. However, thats not the issue, the original purpose of Folk Clubs was surely to provide, encourage, sustain, whatever you like to call it Folk and Traditional Music, if you don't call them Folk Clubs, then eventually they will become something else and not do that. As thing stand I cannot see how they can survive.

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Jul 14 - 05:22 PM

I have been to quite a few folk clubs in the last few years. Some times they are run by the Old timers but the audience usually has a few young people too. The places that seem to do best are the ones who include a bit of Blues, Jazz and C&W as well as traditional Folk. I would travel to any venue that had Harvey Andrews or Winter Wilson or young David Gibb. Others have their favorites and most of these venues get by between big name by playing songs they like and know well and generally end up being Folk playing and singing music they like. Even if its not called a folk club the essential ingredient will still be there

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: Richard Mellish
Date: 31 Jul 14 - 03:03 AM

One or two on this thread have muttered about the smoking ban having been a negative influence. I am one of the many for whom it's an enormous blessing. I gave up my local club in the 80s apart from very rare visits, partly because I was finding smoke more and more distressing. (It later became non-smoking, but smoke could still come in from just outside.) In the 90s I started going to a different club which was already non-smoking.

A large proportion of those who come to Sharp's sing and/or play, few are really dire (but even those people are invited to perform and get applauded), some are very good indeed and there are all ages, albeit with a majority the wrong side of 50.

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 31 Jul 14 - 02:36 AM

Guest Chris: Will we have 'professional'singers for much longer if clubs are turning into sing-arounds or closing? One wonders who will influence and enthuse budding musicians then?

I think they'll find outlets. I know of 3 individuals who started off at one open mic I attend who now regularly get paying gigs. Two of them are very "folky".

The young organiser at that one has, in the last year or so, started to get a lot of airplay on 6Music, Radio 2 and some local radio stations, as well as having 3 of his songs played regularly as "background" in a TV soap opera.

I've promoted folk acts myself, including a very successful gig for Katriona Gilmore and Jamie Roberts at The Plaza in Sevenoaks where we managed (by dint of a lot of leafletting and other publicity and holding ticket prices down to £6) to pack in around 120 people. I don't do it to make money (I just did slightly more than break even on that one....I did think I'd made £55 profit until the venue sent me a PRS bill for £36, despite all Katriona and Jamie's songs being either traditional or their own compositions!!!). I just like trying to get better exposure for people I've seen, enjoyed, and think ought to be brought to the attention of more people.

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: oggie
Date: 30 Jul 14 - 06:38 PM

The students on Folk Degree courses are making their careers wherever they can, either in music or without (I belong to that generation where the label on your degree didn't mean that that was what you did afterwards, there isn't much call for professional Economic Historians).

If you look at the Folk courses (or Dog Training or whatever) you'll see they're very similar to a lot of other degrees, only the subject that carries the degree is different. The best (or most hungry) will find a way to make a career in music, most will enjot the degree and then get a "normal" job and music will be a hobby. Whether or not Folk Clubs are still booking guests won't matter to either group, they'll find other outlets as many are already doing.

Steve

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: GUEST,chris
Date: 30 Jul 14 - 12:15 PM

Will we have 'professional'singers for much longer if clubs are turning into sing-arounds or closing? One wonders who will influence and enthuse budding musicians then?
How are folk 'degree' courses recommending that their students use their learning to make a career in music?
I think,much as people disliked it, I think banning smoking had an effect - changed the nature of pubs. Music licences of one sort or another didn't help - a lot of pubs seem to be changing into eateries in order to survive - does folk music fit into this scenario? One of my earliest folk clubs ran in a Bernie Inn!
There seems to be questions - unfortunately not to many viable answers

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: Vic Smith
Date: 30 Jul 14 - 11:32 AM

Vic - I have been to plenty young performers in clubs where every audience member was old enough to be their parents if not grandparents

Spot on, Peter, but in the 1960s this did not seem to be such an issue (three generations of families together in a folk club as I mentioned.)

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: GUEST,Peter
Date: 30 Jul 14 - 10:40 AM

Vic - I have been to plenty young performers in clubs where every audience member was old enough to be their parents if not grandparents.

The age of booked guests isn't the issue.

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 30 Jul 14 - 10:39 AM

I was thinking along the same lines Vic, where Irish music is concerned it's not at all uncommon for young and old musicians to mix and play music together. Speaking for myself, some years ago I used to play a lot (and recorded a Cd with) a very dear friend who was maybe 35 older, the last time I was playing out (at the end of the Willie Clancy week) I spent several hours playing with a lovely fiddleplayer who is about forty years younger than I am. Not a bother.

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: Vic Smith
Date: 30 Jul 14 - 10:03 AM

It is a fact of life that old and young won't mix. The very last place I wanted to be when I was young was with a lot of older foggies listening to the likes of Doris Day, Frank Sinatra, Ella Fitzgerald etc, thats one of the the reasons I went a Folk Club in the first place.

You may be right, but I, for one, find this baffling.

When I first started running folk clubs when I was 20. The guest performers that I booked included Bob Copper, Packie Byrne, Willie Scott, Seamus Ennis, Rev. Gary Davis, The Border Shepherds, Scan Tester etc. people old enough to be my grandparents. We had two families who had three generations as club regulars.

Last year, when I was 70, I booked Ben Copper, Jim Causley, Hazel & Emily Askew. Debs Newbold, Laurel Swift and a teenage quartet from Brighton. Matt Quinn was one of the club's residents. All these people are young enough to be my grandchildren.

I find it difficult to see what age has to do with it.

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: GUEST,SqueezeMe
Date: 30 Jul 14 - 08:34 AM

I read this thread title as "Folk Clubs Drying Out". Consequently I ignored it till now as I imagined the op suggesting a return to the coffee bar scene of the '60s. But then again, perhaps this is worth some consideration (or not?) Certainly, the breathalyser has had some effect on reduced attendances, and there are a fair number of people who won't attend functions in pubs for other reasons.

MC (ducking to avoid flying glasses and bottles, though, luckily, no ashtrays these days...)

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: GUEST,Mandoman77
Date: 30 Jul 14 - 08:32 AM

It is a fact of life that old and young won't mix. The very last place I wanted to be when I was young was with a lot of older foggies listening to the likes of Doris Day, Frank Sinatra, Ella Fitzgerald etc, thats one of the the reasons I went a Folk Club in the first place. Sure you will get some young people through the door, but they tend to go when they have done their spot and rarely come back. The only other youngsters who may stay a bit longer are the sons and daughters of the older performers. Its just the way the world works.

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: GUEST,The Goose Is Out!
Date: 30 Jul 14 - 07:23 AM

many people on here saying that up and coming clubs don't run the 2 45 minute sets by guest artist and floorsingers format, we've been doing that since we started several years ago -

I see plenty of activity around and about from younger up and coming people starting their own clubs, It's quite refreshing.

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: Vic Smith
Date: 30 Jul 14 - 05:41 AM

Rob,
I would agree with a lot of what you said. The atmosphere at the Ditchling session is great (though I hated the acoustics of the room at The Bull) and open mics and singarounds play an important part.
What they don't have and what a folk club does and should have is the ability to bring a variety of the very best performers of varied ages and styles to an area. The ability to see top singers and musicians in an intimate atmosphere should be inspiring to non-musician enthusiasts and to the area's aspiring musicians. The folk club is in a unique position to do this and will only succeed if it takes on this role. If it descends into being a gathering of regular old cronies that does not seek to achieve the presention of excellence then inevitably it will fail.

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 30 Jul 14 - 03:52 AM

FloraG: The youngsters I know don't see a need to change things. They have their own places to hang out musically, whether they be festivals, open mics or "acoustic evenings" at a local pub. The people who seem to want to change things are the existing, and largely older, denizens of folk clubs started in the 60s who's members have grown old along with the club and who now, finally, see the writing on the wall for their beloved institutions.

I've said here before that there's a vibrant musical scene all around where I live, but that the various age groups seem quite cut-off from each other, with a few notable exceptions. I've managed to get a number of young people along to some of the "established" folk clubs/ events in the area but they never stick. At least they give it a go...I've never yet managed to get one of my "more mature" acquaintances from one of these clubs to go along to an event organised/ attended by younger people. Too far out of their comfort zones I guess.

Personally, these days, I prefer going to open mics, singarounds and the kind of session that Will Fly alluded to that's held monthly in Ditchling. They seem a lot more relaxed and open to different styles of singing/ playing than a typical "old-fashioned" folk club.

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: GUEST,FloraG
Date: 30 Jul 14 - 03:20 AM

Young guest - what would you advise to change things?
In one folk club I go to a lot of the tables are reserved so the same people sit together so you don't get to know them. I would not recommend that.
FloraG.

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: GUEST,Mandoman77
Date: 29 Jul 14 - 05:21 PM

GUEST spells out the problem. Unfortunately its irresolvable.

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: TheSnail
Date: 29 Jul 14 - 04:55 PM

Folk clubs are folk clubs, festivals are festivals, singarounds are singarounds, concerts are concerts and (Heaven help us) open mics are open mics. They all serve different needs and all make their own contribution. There is no need to set one against another.

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Jul 14 - 10:21 AM

As a young person it would appear a lot more attractive a proposition to go to a festival at the weekend - there are enough for every weekend in the year now - than to go down the local folk club and feeling in an alien environment with much older people. Although folk club s describe themselves as friendly it often means that folks who started the club together aeons ago are friendly to each other. Young can have chats with strangers at festivals and make friends. Not sure club give the time and space for that. Folk clubs are painting themselves into a corner.

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Jul 14 - 06:04 AM

"Do agents communicate with their artists?"
A club organiser who I know once received a contract that was pitched at a pop concert with requirements for a private dressing room with fresh fruit etc. She had known the artist for decades and on phoning was told to just put a line through those sections.

Admin fees - HMRC would expect their cut from the recipients. I would be more worried about the arrangement getting classed as employment with a whole raft of regulations to think about.

Agents - its a lot easier to do a single mail out than to customise each one and just because the club room takes 40 doesn't mean that the club doesn't get involved with bigger events either in it's own right or in conjuncton with others.

Which is of course another aspect of promoting the club, be proactive and get involved in local music and arts festivals to put quality folk music in front of a non specialist public and promote the club.

Remember a person doesn't become a prospective new member until:
1. They decide that they like, or at least want to try, folk music
2. They know that there is such a thing as a folk club

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: Vic Smith
Date: 29 Jul 14 - 05:50 AM

Would mudcat be a suitable place for listing good agents?

The problem would be to try to make the the listing anything more than experiential or anecdotal. I had a very bad time with one booking made through a Bristol agent, but others probably found him fine to work with.

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: GUEST,FloraG
Date: 29 Jul 14 - 03:42 AM

Folk clubs are a lot of work. The easiest to run are those that stick to the same format eg a guest every week or a session every week. The most time consuming are those that mix and match - club nights - open mikes - showcases of open mikers -the best open mikers supporting paid guests.
It helps if you have a supportive venue, real ale, free room, and donated food or raffle prize.
There is a case for paying admin fees to committee over and above expenses- but I'm not sure how the tax authorities would view this?
There is also a case for having a list of good agents. Some ask for thing like accomodation when the artist does not need it. Do agents communicate with their artists? Too many do not do their basic research, trying to promote artists charging £2000 when the club room takes 40.
Would mudcat be a suitable place for listing good agents?
FloraG.

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: Musket
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 02:27 PM

Meet me at the folk club, don't be late,
I need to sing some Richard and it just wont wait.
Blow out the candles and turn on the light,
I don't want to hear "The Bright Lights" tonight.

Naw, you're right. It'd be Tipperary...

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: The Sandman
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 02:03 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQE3AS3Vzb0 a good version.

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 01:13 PM

OMG you might even have some "young" (60-ish) folkies come round and sing to you! And of course you would be expected to know "Keep the Home Fires Burning" and "Tipperary".

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: Musket
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 12:39 PM

Aye, it was his party piece and I try to sing it to the same tune.

Incidentally, Amazon have an MP3 download of various live songs and intros of his on sale. I bought it. Yes, Bonny Bunch of Roses is on it, as well as The Recruited Collier, Wine with Dinner, Sheffield Grinder and a few more old chestnuts. Took me back to The Boundary, that did..

BUPA homes? Are you serious? They allow council funded referrals. I'm not cohorting with the proletariat in my dotage! It's going to have to be far more exclusive than that! Mind you, after a couple of years of inspecting the buggers as part of my work with CQC up till last year, I have mixed views on the whole idea..

You can't get stuck in any old home, they might allow the likes of The Snail in them. Clapton forbid who else from Mudcat you might bump into!

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: GUEST,Mandoman77
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 11:13 AM

I think Will Flys post, illustrates the problem in a nut shell.

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 08:25 AM

well you can keep yer thieving hands off my ringbinder, musket! i'll have a chocolate hob nob with me cocoa and Countdown's on in a minute....anyway, what are you doing here?. i thought rich gits like you went in BUPA homes!

Didn't Tony Capstick have a beautiful voice. Who before or since sang the Bonny Bunch of Roses with a voice that could tear you heart out? I'm sure he got fed up with me requesting it.

'By the margins of the ocean.....etc'

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: TheSnail
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 08:07 AM

I can't avoid the image of Big Al and Musket slumped in big comfy armchairs in their Home for Old Folkies grumbling that the weekly singaround organised by their kindly carers isn't like the folk clubs they remember from their youth.

Subject: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 07:48 AM

@ Richard Mellish. No PM sent, only my post.
@ Kenny. No agreement or good opinion sought, only stating my perspective. Good luck with your music too.

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs Dying Out
From: Will Fly
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 06:46 AM

For various reasons I've not been active on Mudcat for a few weeks, but I thought I'd just add a personal comment on a question that's cropped up here and there on this thread: Why did no-one take up the reigns of the highly successful weekly, Royal Oak Club in Lewes, after the retirement of Vic and Tina Smith?

When I heard the news that Vic and Tina were bowing out at the Royal Oak, I considered having a serious shot at running it - perhaps not in quite the same way as it had been run by Vic and Tina, as we all have our own views on how things should be done - but certainly with a view to keeping it going. I felt it was a great shame that such a successful club, with a number of good residents and an excellent reputation in the folk world, should just close. I had had experience of running clubs in the past, for example the BBC Folk Club (Clanfolk) back in the '60s. Having thought hard about it, I did three things:

(1) I set down on paper my own thoughts on how to keep it going and what I felt would be needed
(2) I contacted - and was coincidentally contacted - by two or three like-minded friends in the area
(3) I spoke at some length to Vic and Tina about the whole situation

Without going into details about my conversation with Vic and Tina, suffice to say that they were both very supportive of the idea, had a great of sympathy with many of my own thoughts, and had a huge amount of excellent advice for me on lots of practical procedures. They also gave me some insight into their own "succession planning" and how, for various reasons, it had not turned out as they had expected. So far, so good.

Armed with this data, I had more detailed conversations with the people who had indicated that they might like to be involved. It very soon transpired that, although there was a great deal of theoretical interest, there was - for various quite understandable reasons - a reluctance on the part of those same people to commit time and energy on a regular basis. In effect, it would have been virtually a one-man band - with me as the band. Quite simply, I couldn't do it on my own. None of the people involved, including myself, lived in Lewes, making publicity (and even travel in some winter conditions) a difficult task. None of the people involved could commit to a regular routine. None of us was getting any younger - I'm just a few months younger than Vic and reach my "threescore years and ten" very shortly.

Ironically, and without wishing to blow our own trumpets, those of us who had contemplated getting the club up and going again also had good performing and musical skills - I say "ironically", because, in the end, that was probably the crucial factor in not being able to commit to the club. We were just too busy gigging and doing our own things in performance to be able to spare the extra time needed to run the Royal Oak club. For example, I play jazz and ragtime in one duo, music hall and instrumental music in another, and play regularly in a ceilidh band. I help Stu Reed to run the monthly Brighton Acoustic Session, and I run my own monthly session/singaround in my local Sussex village. All of this as well as participating in other local sessions and musical events.

In hindsight perhaps it was just wishful thinking on my part to have contemplated taking on the burden in the first place - but I felt genuinely sad that the club had folded, and still do.