BS: Anyone defend US gun law?

Subject: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 19 Aug 14 - 02:44 PM

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/08/18/1322562/-What-Could-Possibly-Go-Wrong-Just-Did-Georgia-s-Carry-Protection-Act-in-Action?detail=email

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 Aug 14 - 04:09 PM

State laws vary significantly. Federal law might prohibit automatic weapons, but most regulations are state-determined;
in effect there is no overall US gun law to defend.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 19 Aug 14 - 04:18 PM

Yeah yeah...

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Aug 14 - 04:18 PM

And there should be. America has it's own breed of home-grown terorists, so-called militias, who trade off this. That in and of itself should make Homeland Insecurity extend the anti-terrorist laws to this domain, and restrict the right of the citizen to bear weapons to self-defence and security functions.
There are areas where it remains important to be armed against wildlife, but not in city centres.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Don Firth
Date: 19 Aug 14 - 04:45 PM

Where I live, near a large park, I might be savaged by a squirrel. Or more probably by my neighbor's yappy little Yorkshire terrier.

I own guns (target shooting), but I don't really feel like I need them for protection.

And as far as a "well regulated militia" is concerned, we already have a well regulated militia. It's called the National Guard.

Self-appointed militias, usually made up of gangs of "super-patriots" are not "well regulated."

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 Aug 14 - 08:06 PM

most regulations are state-determined;
in effect there is no overall US gun law

And therein lies the problem. There SHOULD be a Federal law to regularize matters across the board.

But the National Rifle Assassination and the Gun Manufacturer's lobby will never let that happen.

Per this responsible firearmms owner and hunter.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: olddude
Date: 19 Aug 14 - 08:32 PM

Hello yea I could shoot long before I learned to ride a bike.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Aug 14 - 08:57 PM

Here's a bit of a dilema - as a lifelong progressive lefty I'm very aware of the politics of gun control issues.

I've also experienced the loss of a fairly close relative to suicide by legally owned shotgun.

However, as an average bloke raised on cowboy, war and action movies, guns do hold a definite real fascination.

If Gun ownership was permitted in the UK, I'd more than likely own a collection of the best examples I could afford.

I say this honestly, without shame or guilt.

In the same way I collect guitars as objects of fine design and function.
I'd want to collect guns.

Whatever there is to be said about the dangers of their misuse & abuse.
Guns are still examples of classic design and precision engineering,
like pre digital era cameras, and vintage motor vehicles.

Plus they go 'BANG', which like it or not can be satisfyingly exciting.
Like blasting out a big power chord through a vintage valve amplifier.

Hire a gun range for an hour or two on a weekend, or a rehearsal studio - take your pick.

Truthfully, I'd also feel more secure in old age with guns securely stored in the home.

Though, as gun ownership for responsible citizens is never likely to happen in the UK.

Moral / ideological dilema averted.

The wife can rest relieved there is one fewer range of collectables for me to waste money on.

There's always Discovery channel "Sons of guns" for an entertaining mix of expert precision metal working,
loud bangs and swamp boogie electric guitar music.
Shame the main characters in this series are such ******* *****.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Aug 14 - 09:20 PM

The right to bear arms is the second amendment to the constitution. The right to freedom of thought is the first. The second guarantees the first.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Don Firth
Date: 19 Aug 14 - 09:25 PM

Not necessarily!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 19 Aug 14 - 10:06 PM

In my local newspaper this morning, a letter to the editor said, "Obama is building a private military force to take over control of all of us, as early as possible." This kind of thinking is very common in my area, and it's a primary reason why Americans want to have guns - to protect themselves from their government.

Personally, I think they're crazy.

I've never had reason to be afraid of "bad guys" with guns. But on two occasions, righteous citizens have unknowingly shot in my direction when I was walking frequently-used hiking trails. And when I was working as a government investigator, I made an appointment to interview two righteous but very frightened citizens - they had rifles pointed at me as I approached their house.

So, it's the "good guys" I have reason to fear, and I sure wish they weren't allowed to have guns to protect their righteousness.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 19 Aug 14 - 10:41 PM

Gun laws aren't the problem. Gun users are.

I need my T-shirt back that said, Gods don't kill people, People with gods kill people.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Rapparee
Date: 19 Aug 14 - 10:56 PM

"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest."
-- Mahatma Gandhi

Certainly one of the chief guarantees of freedom under any government, no matter how popular and respected, is the right of the citizens to keep and bear arms. [...] the right of the citizens to bear arms is just one guarantee against arbitrary government and one more safeguard against a tyranny which now appears remote in America, but which historically has proved to be always possible.
-- Hubert H. Humphrey, 1960

Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws."
-- Edward Abbey, "Abbey's Road", 1979

Americans have the will to resist because you have weapons. If you don't have a gun, freedom of speech has no power.
-- Yoshimi Ishikawa, Japanese author, in the LA Times 15 Oct 1992

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
-- John F. Kennedy

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 19 Aug 14 - 11:18 PM

Twats with rifles can stand off the government with the power to "shock and awe"? Boy there is delusional for you!

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: olddude
Date: 19 Aug 14 - 11:18 PM

Amen Rap

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Aug 14 - 11:30 PM

"Oh, a cowboy needs a horse, needs a horse, needs a horse
And he's gotta have a rope, have a rope, have a rope
And he oughta' have a song, have a song, have a song
If he wants to keep ridin'

Now a cowboy needs a hat, needs a hat, needs a hat
And a pair of fancy boots, fancy boots, fancy boots
And a set of shiny spurs, shiny spurs, shiny spurs
If he wants to keep ridin'

Oh, the fence is long, and the sun is hot
And the good Lord knows that a cowboy's gotta keep
Ridin', ridin' along

So he gets himself a horse, and a rope, and a song
And he finds himself a hat, fancy boots, shiny spurs
And there's nothing more he needs, or can have, or can get
If he wants to keep ridin', ridin' along"

.... oddly enough, no mention of any need for a six shooter !!!???

...there you go, guns must be an optional extra - you don't need 'em !!!




For what it's worth, first time I've noticed that omission in over 50 years of loving
the Roy Rogers version of this song..

[now I really must go to bed...]

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: olddude
Date: 19 Aug 14 - 11:31 PM

Until the political leaders change the constitution. People like me rap and everyone else who took the oath to protect and defend the document will continue to support it.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: LadyJean
Date: 20 Aug 14 - 12:22 AM

I used to live upstairs from a drunk. Every few nights he'd get noisy, I'd lock the deadbolt on my door, and pray to heaven he hadn't bought himself a gun. He'd hurt himself before he broke down my door. But he could shoot through it easily enough. Happily he never bought a gun. Even more happily, he moved.

My sister lives on a farm in North Carolina. I wish she'd buy a rifle. She's a lesbian, living with her partner. In a very rural area. Where feral dogs, rabid animals and rabid homophobes are a real danger.

To amend the Constitution, 1 somebody has to propose the amendment. 2. It has to pass both the Senate and the House of Representatives. 3. The President has to approve. 4. A majority of the states must ratify said amendment. It takes a bit of work. The 19th Amendment passed both houses in 1918, but it wasn't ratified until 1920.

The Second Amendment is part of the Bill of Rights, which is a sacred document, akin to the Magna Charta or the Rights of Man, here in the U.S. When I was 9 there was a copy of it on the classroom wall in school. One day our teacher went through it, and explained what each right meant. She was an urban Jew, and probably never touched a gun in her life. But those ten amendments were important to her.

When I was 12, there was a copy of the Bill of Rights in the back of our history text. Once again, the teacher took us through it, and told us what each amendment meant. She also taught us that no right was aboslute. The First Amendment guarantees religious freedom. But even Utah doesn't recognize polygamous marriages. The Second Amendment guarantees the right to keep and bear arms. But, in those days, that didn't mean you could own a machine gun.

Deer hunting is pretty popular here in Western Pennsylvania. Many of my neighbors are Polish, Serbian, Slovak, or Czech. Their ancestors came from countries where hunting was a nobleman's priveledge. Here anyone who can afford the license and equipment can go out and try to bag a ten point buck. Count yourself lucky if you get through a winter without being served venison. When gun control laws are proposed, the NRA goes to hunters and tells them that the government will take their guns away. It works.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 20 Aug 14 - 01:00 AM

I got quite a lot of agreement from both sides of the Pond with the following posts on a previous thread on this topic, so venture to copy them here:-

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: MGM·Lion - PM
Date: 17 Dec 12 - 02:00 AM
The either-or nature of the title of this thread sums up what your trouble is over there. You will tie yourself in knots to find any out from the self-evident fact that YOU HAVE GOT TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT YOUR DESTRUCTIVE & DYSFUNCTIONAL GUN LAWS.
If you don't believe me, just look at all the arguments, from too-many-guns-out-there-already-to-possibly-ever-control
to got-to-have-one-in-case-I-ever-just-happen-to-meet-a-psycho-who-has-one that all the thousands of threads on the topic already are full of
Like here ~~ oh, it isn't the availability of the guns, it's the fact that someone who owns one might just be on meds which encourage him to go out & kill people with it that is the trouble.
So we can leave the gun laws alone & just make sure that nobody can get at the drugs.
Well, that's all right then.
♫Oh when will you ever learn...♫

Subject: RE: BS: Ban anti-depressant drugs, not guns
From: MGM·Lion - PM
Date: 17 Dec 12 - 02:10 AM
And if you don't believe me, just look again at that table on that other ongoing thread of #s of deaths over a year by gunshot in various nations -- all in one- or two-figures except for the US, which is in the 2000s -- an unspeakable disgrace to your otherwise great and rightly-widely-respected nation...

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Musket
Date: 20 Aug 14 - 02:36 AM

I was always led to believe the "right to bear arms" was written as meaning the government has the right to draft you into the army.

This fascination with making it easy to kill humans, whether it be a redneck with a gun and a delusion or a state governor with an execution warrant...

Then some on here get all angry when I tell them to keep banging the rocks together. I have right of residency and whilst I don't take it up, my reasons are simply that I don't need to business wise these days. Yet many friends in Boston and Chicago cannot understand why anyone who could doesn't.

It isn't the easiest country to fathom as an outsider...

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Stu
Date: 20 Aug 14 - 06:03 AM

"is a sacred document, akin to the Magna Charta (sic)"

The Magna Carta is far from being a sacred document; it was a bunch of toffs protecting their own interests from the monarchy. Why it's touted as some sort of milestone in the freedom of ordinary folk is beyond me: it's the aristocracy making sure they're all right. It offered some benefits to certain strata of society but as most of our ancestors were serfs and basically slaves it made not a jot of difference.

Like the second amendment, it was written in a different time and for a different reason and it's invoked these days to perpetuate whatever view you subscribe too; in the US that's you can't be man without a gun to kill people with, in the UK the fact fuck all has changed for us ordinary folk in the last 1000 years.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: bubblyrat
Date: 20 Aug 14 - 06:44 AM

In modern (but not ,I think current ) times , ALL male Swiss citizens of a certain age were given some military training , and were then formed into an army or militia on "instant readiness" in the event of war . I was assured by a Swiss friend that he kept his rifle /sub-machine gun and ammunition in his bedroom at home ! Apparently, the murder rate (involving firearms) in Switzerland in those days was astonishingly LOW !! Perhaps the Swiss are/were more contented with their lot than is the case in some other countries ?? But in answer to the thread question ; yes, I suppose I do support it !! Up until a few years ago , I owned several weapons,including a fully moderated .410 magnum shotgun, a double-barrelled 12 guage , and a Mossberg 20g pump. At NO TIME did I ever feel the desire or need to use them against my fellow humans , although it WAS very comforting to know that the weapons were there IF there was civil unrest or terrorist activity .

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Aug 14 - 07:44 AM

Regarding weapon ownership being enshrined in law....

Am I still required by order of the King to own and practice Longbow ???

Sorry if I've neglected training, but no one from the local council or police has ever mentioned it,
and I've been too busy playing my 'axe'...

I've got a high powered catapult if that's any good......

and a maple Telecaster neck can be a pretty lethal club, especially if you leave the 4 screws protruding out by half an inch.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 Aug 14 - 09:06 AM

No, you no longer have to practice archery.

http://archery.mysaga.net/archlaws.html

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Rapparee
Date: 20 Aug 14 - 09:46 AM

The structure of the Swiss militia system stipulates that the soldiers keep their own personal equipment, including all personally assigned weapons, at home (until 2007 this also included ammunition.

These "personal weapons" include:

Individual weapons

    Sturmgewehr 90 assault rifle (200,000)
    Sturmgewehr 57 battle rifle (2,000)
    Pistole 75 semi-automatic pistol (30,000)
    Pistole 49 semi-automatic pistol (1,000)
    Pistole 03 semi-automatic pistol (Military Police)
    Glock semi-automatic pistol (Swiss Grenadiers, ARD 10, FSK-17)
    FN Minimi
    Heckler & Koch MP5 submachinegun
    Brügger & Thomet MP9 machine pistol
    Tuma MTE 224 VA machine pistol
    Remington 870 multipurpose shotgun (known as Mehrzweckgewehr 91)
    Sako TRG-42 8.6 mm anti-personnel sniper rifle   (Scharfschützengewehr 04)
    PGM Hecate II 12.7 mm anti-materiel heavy sniper rifle (Präzisionsgewehr 04)

                           (Info from Wikipedia)

I could not. without permitting, own or keep a machine pistol, an MP5, or any weapon with fully automatic capability. Don't want one -- couldn't afford the ammunition even if I had one.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Rapparee
Date: 20 Aug 14 - 09:49 AM

Oh, I couldn't have the FN Minimi either -- that's a light machine gun.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Aug 14 - 10:52 AM

> The Magna Carta is far from being a sacred document; it was a bunch
> of toffs protecting their own interests from the monarchy. Why it's
> touted as some sort of milestone in the freedom of ordinary folk is
> beyond me: it's the aristocracy making sure they're all right.

I agree with some of your analysis, MC was never a social contract between the government and the populace.

The reason the MC is a milestone is because it is the first time law was held as applying to an absolute ruler. It was the first step on the road to our current position - which although it can be much improved is still far far better than it was 1000 years ago.

Take a look at all the failed states around the world (especially those with dictators) and in a lot of cases applying a modern Magna Carta would probably improve things.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Musket
Date: 20 Aug 14 - 10:54 AM

Does "defending the document" include making excuses for the massacres in school yards?

Fascinating, the breadth of humanity you get on Mudcat, from normal people to frankly disturbing views.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Janie
Date: 20 Aug 14 - 11:29 AM

I've been participating in an on-line discussion sponsored by News21 for the past 4 weeks - invited through my participation in the Pubic Insight Network. Has been interesting. News21 has now gone live with their multimedia reportage. It is extensive - and maybe not that informative in some ways, but does reveal the deep divide in the USA regardin issues related to guns. The discussions on the forum in which I participated were very informative regarding attitudes and the philosophies and paradigms that guide folks views. I have come away from it with the understanding that there are some rivers over which it is going to be very, very difficult to build bridges.

Here is a link to the News21 project. http://gunwars.news21.com/

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 20 Aug 14 - 01:02 PM

Again, y'all are confusing the laws with the abusers thereof.

It isn't the gun LAW that is at issue in the US, the same legal rights to weaponry exist elsewhere.

The issue is that Americans have come to believe that they have an inalienable right to Happiness directly, rather than to the pursuit thereof.

And that using violence is seen as a viable second or first or third option, rather than as a last resort.

And that using a gun, in particular, is macho, cowboy-ish, admirable and cool, like all (Marlboro) men should be and all women admire and be round-heeled for.

If people had realized Bush II was a redneck and not a cowboy, he wouldn't have gotten nearly as far.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 20 Aug 14 - 01:18 PM

"the same legal rights to weaponry exist elsewhere"

Not here in UK, they don't; and we continue to gaze in amazement at the results of yours. I repeat, yet again that 2 y.o post of mine on the "Drugs or Guns" thread --

just look again at that table on that other ongoing thread of #s of deaths over a year by gunshot in various nations -- all in one- or two-figures except for the US, which is in the 2000s -- an unspeakable disgrace to your otherwise great and rightly-widely-respected nation...

How do you go on living with it? Justifying it? Making all sorts of excuses for it?

Just look at those numbers again; & for god's sake stop and THINK!

≈M≈

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: GUEST,Rahere
Date: 20 Aug 14 - 02:25 PM

If you are framing the Second Amendment in the heritage to Magna Carta, then you must recognise that it is specifically feudal, in that it is in the service of Law, which the Charter had a lot to say about, establishing the first neutral legal system in the UK for hundreds of years. And to claim that the Charter is uniquely of benefit to the Barons is nonsense, if you read it: it had much to say about the Laws of Succession and of individual property at all levels of society, much of which was against the Barons customs and practices.

The evident consequence of the NRA argument in that it allows all to shoot it out at will is actually in denial of the first principle of the Constitution, the enjoyment of life. It also denies the ancestry of the Constitution, in the Charter. Clause 39 remains to this day: "No free man shall be seized or imprisoned, or stripped of his rights or possessions, or outlawed or exiled, or deprived of his standing in any other way, nor will we proceed with force against him, or send others to do so, except by the lawful judgement of his equals or by the law of the land."

And in plain common sense, I think you now have adequate pragmatic precedent to call their bluff.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 20 Aug 14 - 02:47 PM

I'm not saying they exist everywhere else; I'm saying that where people have the right to weaponry they don't go around shooting each other except here. Look at the number of guns owned per person in Canada - yet they don't go shooting each other over what music someone is playing in their car! That kind of gun violence, or shooting up a dorm full of women because you couldn't get as laid as you felt you should have been, takes an American sense of entitlement to not have to put up with annoyance, an American sense of violence as an acceptable response to annoyance, and an American attitude that shooting people who annoy you is something to be proud of/aspire to.

It is not the legal right to own the gun that is the problem.

Many, many Americans are legal gun owners and not over-entitled, trigger-happy would-be cowboys.

Criminalizing them doesn't make the problem people any less overly entitled, less trigger-happy, or less cowboyish.

The attitude is what needs to be addressed.

Nobody has the right to happiness. Nobody is entitled to use a gun on someone who has merely lessened their happiness.

Making guns illegal won't deal with that stuffy and arrogant attitude any more than making cigarrettes illegal would detract from the Marlboro Man's appeal to popular American culture.
Make smoking uncool and it diminishes as a problem.

If we could make shooting people a shameful act...

But oh, yeah, we're not allowed to shame people any more.

Pah.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: olddude
Date: 20 Aug 14 - 03:20 PM

Could not be more wrong most area's that have the most guns... Like in PA where I was from.. Gun violence is non existent. Unlike Chicago or LA Where the right is essentially removed

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: olddude
Date: 20 Aug 14 - 08:53 PM

Everyone i know owns and arsenal and never hurt anyone for any reason. Good people which the vast majority are don't do criminal activity. But criminals do and no law would unarm them

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Rapparee
Date: 20 Aug 14 - 09:15 PM

Look at this, and please, ignore the media hype...one school shooting does NOT change the trend but it does produce low-grade hysteria.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Rapparee
Date: 20 Aug 14 - 09:29 PM

Just out of curiosity, why is this yet again being "debated" on Mudcat? Nothing said here will change anything anywhere.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: LadyJean
Date: 20 Aug 14 - 09:32 PM

I most fear being shot when I'm driving down Glass Run Road during hunting season. It's a wooded area and there are always a couple of people in there after deer. I hope and pray that they're sober and good shots.

Many Americans consider it their God given right to go out every fall and bag a buck. Including a neighbor of mine, who had an impressive arsenal, which he was wise enough to keep locked in a safe, where his elderly mum wouldn't get at them, and possibly shoot her foot off.

Anyway, I think they have hunters in England too, don't they?

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: olddude
Date: 20 Aug 14 - 10:27 PM

Lady Jean mine are in a safe also. Most responsible people use them to secure their weapons. You are right. And there is nothing wrong with venison. I don't hunt anymore because it is just me and my missus and she don't like venison

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 21 Aug 14 - 01:59 AM

"I most fear being shot when I'm driving down Glass Run Road during hunting season"

The thought of being shot never, ever crosses my mind because, in general, we don't let people here have access to firearms. That's called sanity, BTW.

LJ, we don't have 'hunters' in the way you're thinking - we have a small number of people, mostly farmers, who go out shooting pheasants, partridge, rabbits etc. using shotguns. No-one has, or uses, high-velocity rifles, nor does anyone have hand-guns.

Americans only think they need guns because they've already got guns. Over here, where sanity has prevailed, we know that nobody needs a gun when nobody else has a gun.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 21 Aug 14 - 04:38 AM

Apologies, we do have 'hunters' (sic), there are a few remote areas where very nasty, unpleasant people go to get a hard-on shooting beautiful deer, but those are very much a tiny minority.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 21 Aug 14 - 04:59 AM

well you'll be relieved to know that your gun laws are the main reason, i won't visit America. It seems like a scary place.

All these freaks on the crime channel. Not just the celebrity killers like Bundy and the Green River bloke. You seem to have lunatic serial killers on every street. Every episode starts with, 'Bongville, Illinois.... a sleepy little town....a great place to bring your kids up in , and walk the the dog........But the we meet THE DOG WALKER MANIAC....nobody had noticed that he practiced quick draw in the supermarket and had car stickers saying I WANT TO KILL LOTS OF PEOPLE...

Look at poor John Lennon.

Defend free speech.....you have got to be joking. None of you fuckers listen to each other - so it hardly matters what you're saying.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: kendall
Date: 21 Aug 14 - 06:45 AM

What we need is a cure for "Testosterone poisoning."

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Stu
Date: 21 Aug 14 - 07:19 AM

"well you'll be relieved to know that your gun laws are the main reason, i won't visit America. It seems like a scary place."

Well, that's a mistake. Americans are a wonderful people and I've never seen a person with a gun whenever I've been, including out in the backcountry where there are bears etc. I did see a 'no guns' sign when I went into a museum in West Virgina and that was a bit of a shock (what sort of person would take a gun into a museum anyway?).

So it's not a scary place, but it is a scared place. People have guns because either they are frightened or they're cock-wavers. You don't need an AK47 to hunt bears (as one chap on the TV was doing recently) and no-one needs automatic weapons full stop. These are designed to kill people, nothing else.

The big cultural difference between us and the US is the acceptance in the states of a culture of ultra violence, to the point where killing unarmed people, school massacres and tots being shot by accident have become everyday occurrences that are accepted as part of society.

I can't wait to get back to the US, and never think of guns when I'm there as I don't when I'm here. If my behaviour had to change because of intimidation by folk with guns I'd probably think twice though; there's enough fear in the world without exposing yourself to it for no good reason.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 21 Aug 14 - 07:32 AM

You ought to fear the cops in the good old US of A, the seem to go round shooting unarmed black kids for no good reason.

Dave H

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 21 Aug 14 - 09:31 AM

I'm with Stu.

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Rapparee
Date: 21 Aug 14 - 10:06 AM

According the the Small Arms Survey for 2014 and in spite of its many errors and criticisms, the US is ranked #1 world-wide in small arms ownership. The UK/Wales is #88, tied with Bulgaria and Honduras and trailing Switzerland (#4), France (#12), Canada (#13), New Zealand (#22), Northern Ireland (#25), Australia (#42), Ireland (#70), and Iran (#79 and tied with Israel).

Let Britain beware! Your former colonies are coming to get you!

(Please note that this survey of small arms is an estimate, albeit a good one, and includes as small arms morters of less than 100mm, light machine guns, and submachine guns. I'm certain that Canadians possess many 81mm mortars in civilian hands, probably as many as in the US.)

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Aug 14 - 10:15 AM

Out of curiosity, I just did a quick google to find out if it is even possible for responsible UK citizens
to join an accredited shooting club to train in recreational handgun marksmanship;
hiring weapons for use restricted to club premises, and owned by and supervised by qualified shooters

.. and it seems the simple answer is NO !!!

So if I want to experience the sensation of firing a magnum 45,
I'll just have to shut my eyes, hold my hands forward in a firing position,
and pretend, and shout BANG, while the wife swiftly smacks me in the wrists with a heavy wooden tea tray....

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 21 Aug 14 - 10:43 AM

"Let Britain beware! Your former colonies are coming to get you!"

Nawww - we'll send a gunboat down the Nile, that'll have the buggers shitting their pants! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Anyone defend US gun law?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 21 Aug 14 - 11:15 PM

"well you'll be relieved to know that your gun laws are the main reason, i won't visit America. It seems like a scary place."

I maintain that the laws are not the problem, it's the over-entitled cowboy mentality that is.

Don't be afraid to go to places with guns. Be afraid to go to places where guns aren't for hunting.

And the tea-tray should smack you in the hand, no? More like the end of a bat?