Whitby. Was it always in August?

Subject: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 06:25 AM

Next year being the 50th anniversary of Whitby folk festival, I've been trying to remember when I first visited. AFAICR it was 1968 and it was just a weekend affair in those days. But here's the tricky bit. I don't remember it being in August.

In fact if memory serves me aright, it was originally held in May over the late bank holiday weekend.

Can anyone confirm or deny same?

Thanks.

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST,Malcolm Storey
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 07:15 AM

Just to stop another myth.

The Whitby Folk Festival now known as Whitby Folk Week has always been in August.

End of Thread

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST,Guest Betsy
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 07:27 AM

Bob Spray "Captain" of the Yorkshire Faction , Mike Harding "Captain" of the Lancashire crowd.
Graham Binless etc ....happy days .

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 07:44 AM

bob spray made Malcolm look like the epitome of diplomacy and tact.

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: doc.tom
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 09:39 AM

Wow! That takes some doing!

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 09:45 AM

From the Moor & Coast website:

"Moor & Coast organise the Whitby Spring Session - a celebration of music, song, dance, food and drink in Whitby, North Yorkshire. This popular event occurs on 1st 2nd & 3rd   May 2015"


DC

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: doc.tom
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 10:50 AM

Yes, but it's a very modern phenomenon compared to Whitby FF

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 11:10 AM

One memory I have is hearing of the death of Brian Epstein while I was there - have just checked that & it was August 27, 1967, so it used to be a little later in the month, maybe- that was my first visit & I never went back till about 5 years ago, wonder why?

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 12:12 PM

Jim. I think you must be right. Old age and dead brain cells have obviously led me to the wrong conclusion. But what presumably caused my confusion was the fact that the festival was at some time brought forward a week.

Obviously, in those days it was arranged to coincide with the late summer bank holiday. IE., the one we're supposed to be currently enjoying. As I look out of the window at the freezing cold rain, I'm thinking what a good idea it was that they moved it.

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST,Guest Betsy
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 12:30 PM

I'll let Malcolm Storey guide me with this answer - but I always believed that Folk week ,was/is the week after the Whitby Regatta - and the Regatta's exact week was/is determined by the tides so it is a bit of a " moving feast-day" but not to the extent that it occurs outside of August.

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 12:43 PM

Regatta may well be governed by tides and weather but the Festival isn't governed by it. On the few occasions when Regatta and Festival have coincided the place has been chaotic but we occasionally got 2 fireworks displays because of it.

I also have a fading memory of it not being a full week in the 60s but when did it become a full week if that's the case?

As far as I can remember, and I was dancing and mumming at the second one, it has always finished on the Friday before the Bank Holiday or was earlier on the weekend of the Bank Holiday.

I have a recollection that Tony Wilson (the Liverpool big bearded one) was captain of the Lancys. This was before the cricket matches.

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: r.padgett
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 12:51 PM

Whitby folk week is set as being the week before August Bank holiday Monday is it not!!

Regatta is NOT I believe set in stone as being necessarily totally to do with tides and they could and should from a tourist angle avoid any clashes

I believe Regatta is not the same week in 2015 as Whitby folk week

Ray

Yep Bob Spray was something of a character with his wife Hazel ~ Hazel last heard of in Australia and Bob died some years ago ~am I making it up that he was twin??

Ray

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 01:04 PM

Steve. It certainly started out as a weekend festival, run by EFDSS incidentally. I know not when it became a week long event, but it must have been somewhere between 1969 and 1971. I remember booking a week's holiday to go to it, while I was still working as a contractor's plant fitter. That couldn't have been later than 1971, because it was in September of that year that I was made redundant and took a lab technician's job instead.

I've no idea whether Tony Wilson, or Molyneaux as he became, was ever the Lancy's captain, but he was the fool for the Southport Swords.

BTW., Does anybody remember the big green bus that we scouse festival goers travelled around in? We used to call ourselves the Merseyside Folklore Research Association. Honest.

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: Surreysinger
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 01:32 PM

Regatta next year is from 14th-17th of August so will not clash. Shame in a way - it would have been nice to have the Red Arrows for the 50th anniversary first weekend !

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST,Malcolm Storey
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 02:44 PM

Just a few more FACTS.

The August Bank Holiday was originally the first Monday in August. After a trial period from 1965 to 1970 the date was changed to the last Monday in August.

The current Whitby Folk Week takes place in the week - Saturday to Friday immediately preceeding the Bank Holiday.

The dates for WFW are 16th - 22nd August (as this year) at the earliest and 22nd - 28th August latest (as next year). I have lost count of the number of people and organisations I have given this formula to. The Regatta, the Council and the Local Paper could always be relied upon to lose the letter.

The festival started in 1966 as a predominently dance festival held in a local hotel. It gradually grew in the early years and by the mid
1970s had become 5 and a bit days with Wednesday night off for song except for the charity concert at the Friendship Club. (Strictly speaking this should not have occured as the festival was run by EFDSS, itself a registered charity). The Festival proper started with a Concert with Dance elements at the Spa Pavilion with the flat roof and kids running about on it on Sunday evening - 10.00pm finish.

The event finally became Whitby Folk Week in 1981 when Trevor Stone, Graham Pirt and Edmund Jenkinson became involved alongside Grahame Binless (anagram - a harmless being).

I became officially involved in 1982.

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: Mo the caller
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 06:03 PM

Yes, I remember walking over to roof of the Spa (to get to the Crescent) in the 80s. And joining Efdss because there was a discount for members (then leaving again in disgust over the House fiasco, and rejoining later to get their insurance cover).
We were amazed when we first went at the expert dancers (we knew just about enough to join in and learn more).
So many chances to learn new things at Whitby.

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: Musket
Date: 26 Aug 14 - 03:45 AM

I can't go back to the '60s but for many a year starting in the late '70s it was always straight from Whitby to Stainsby for the August Bank Holiday.

Then Stainsby moved...

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 26 Aug 14 - 05:47 AM

I too left in disgust over over the House fiasco. (In fact that wasn't the first time. I'd previously joined purely so that I could buy the members only EFDSS LPs of traditional singers. In those days, if you lived in the North West, there was absolutely nothing for song buffs, so there was no point in stopping, but that's another story.)

In those days, I regarded EFDSS as a very fusty organisation, full of little grey haired old ladies of both sexes, Ewan McColl once put it.

Anyway, I rejoined several years ago and found it had turned into a completely different organisation. It's now much more efficient, pro-active and professional, with loads of important initiatives like the Full English and the Roud Index. And of course it's got a first class library. Where some of the old guard looked to me like they couldn't preserve a pot of jam, EFDSS nowadays does a first class job of both preserving and propagating folk tradition.

If you left in disgust in the 2oth century, then I'd seriously consider rejoining in the 21st.

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST,Clive Pownceby
Date: 26 Aug 14 - 06:33 AM

Tony Wilson was indeed the Lancs Captain way back when. Us west coast types used the 'Elsinore' as a base and the Yorkshire contingent supped in the 'Star.'
In the days when the pubs closed in the afternoon (2.30pm I think) and there were nowhere near as many official events, we had to make our own Wars Of The Roses fun. This entailed a race up and down the Abbey steps, beach cricket, a tiddlywinks championship when Wilson flipped his wink into a full pint glass and somehow (the stuff of legend) ended up swallowing the thing. Yard Of Ale drinking, a wallpaper dance where rolls of lining paper replaced Morris sticks - ahh, the innocence of it all. I stayed in a complex of rooms on the Esplanade the first time I went, must've been about 20 of us in there with one toilet!!!! - no really. Time has thankfully erased the more ghastly details. Malcolm Howarth booked it and I paid him 30/- (that's erm, £1.50 for the entire week)
Another early venue I recall apart from the Mission To Seamen was the Drill Hall - can't recall the exact location but it was a dusty old place.

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 Aug 14 - 06:38 AM

I thought Graham Binless did a good job,as someone that he booked a number of times he treated me decently and with respect,I enjoyed the Whitby festivals he organised

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST,Malcolm Storey
Date: 26 Aug 14 - 07:18 AM

The Drill Hall is still there - it's behind the Bagdale Hall Hotel Annexe which itself had been a social club.

The Drill Hall is used by the local scouts and I recall seeing the likes of Walter Pardon, Dave Burland, two young Wilsons (Chris & Steve), a very young Chris Parkinson and quite a lot more whilst sitting on very small seats.

Don't recall Dick Miles but no doubt he can supply the years he was there which would be good.

The festival paid to have showers installed in the hall so that we could use it for indoor camping for such as Fosbrooks and others.
There was also a folk festival cafe there set up on the stage which was never used as a stage in my experience.

As the festival expanded the uses we could put the venue to became less and after our contact became ill we eventually had to, regretably, agree to disagree with the committee and cease using it.

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: Mo the caller
Date: 26 Aug 14 - 08:17 AM

Fred, if your comment
"If you left in disgust in the 2oth century, then I'd seriously consider rejoining in the 21st."
was aimed at me, I did rejoin - when I started Calling for cash for the general public. It was pointed out that I needed Public Liability insurance and EFDSS was a way of getting it.
If it was a general comment then I agree that they are doing some good work now (catching up with the digital age at last, much behind CDSS). Purely in cash terms, I'm not sure what someone who didn't need insurance would get from being a member that they couldn't get anyway (magazine & journal if you still like print) other than supporting the cause.

If EFDSS stopped running Whitby in 1981 I think the members discount must have carried on longer than that.
Interesting that CDSS are still running Pinewoods weeks (and people are getting hot under the collar about proposed changes).

I only knew Whitby after it 'grew up and left home', it seems to me that EFDSS made the right decision.

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Aug 14 - 08:40 AM

"Interesting that CDSS are still running Pinewoods weeks "
But then CDSS aren't goverened by the Charity Commission.
My understanding (based on heresay) was that the CC had raised certain objections to the Society running festivals.

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST,Clive Pownceby
Date: 26 Aug 14 - 08:47 AM

Thanks for the Drill Hall info. Malcolm. Fred Jordan is the one I recall appearing there, to the accompaniment of a small child running around, unrestrained and quite vocal. Fred kept going to his credit and I alluded to the incident in a newsletter interview with him - "I would've smacked its arse" he said, "if it were mine." A reply in the next days newsheet accused me of fabricating it and something along the lines of "how dare you accuse that nice gentleman of potential child-whacking." I make no further comment!!!!

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST,Malcolm Storey
Date: 26 Aug 14 - 11:22 AM

Oh dear oh dear.

Heresay and balderdash!

The EFDSS ran WFW until 1986 when the whole question of the Society running festivals and the financial risk involved was addressed.

This was largely brought about by Sidmouth having spent almost the whole of its reserves on their 30th anniversary bash a couple of years before. The cash was held in a local account and the then treasurer of the Society was somewhat alarmed to say the least. The local accounts were included in the Society's overall accounts and as such the "loss" of quite a large sum in one year put the Society's already fragile accounts under undue strain. Reprimands were handed out but the money had gone.

In the period 1982 to 1986 (five festivals) WFW contributed in excess of £20K to EFDSS central funds. A sizeable amount in those days.

At some time in the year 1985/6 Jim Lloyd made his suggestion which I have touched on before that "Any profits from Society festivals to go to central funds, any losses met locally".

Edmund Jenkinson and myself took over WFW by agreed consent in 1987.

Business pressures led to Ed leaving after that first independent year and I carried on until 2006 when I retired.

The above is what happened, no heresay, I was present at all the relevant meetings and discussions and there is lots more for some other forum.

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: Musket
Date: 26 Aug 14 - 11:31 AM

Perhaps it was running children interrupting him that got Fred Jordan to sing Grandfather's Clock Interruptus.....



The timing of the charitable status stuff comes from when charitable trusts with trustees who were "jointly and severely liable" came into force. Many organisations had to start separating their commercial from their charitable sides.

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: Mo the caller
Date: 26 Aug 14 - 11:50 AM

Ah, I see. So when we started coming it was still an EFDSS festival.

I know our dance club was an affiliated(?was that what they called it?) club, and sent a lot of it's money to EFDSS.

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST,Chris Murray
Date: 26 Aug 14 - 11:56 AM

Do you mean hearsay? Or heresy?

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 26 Aug 14 - 12:08 PM

After consulting the relevant issues of English Dance & Song, I can say that the first "Whitby Festival" was Saturday 27 August to Thursday 1 September 1966. That included the bank holiday Monday.

In 1967, the dates were Sunday 27 August to Thursday 31 August (again including bank holiday).

In 1968 - Sat 31 Aug to Wed 4 Sept - the bank holiday that year was Monday 2 September...

In 1969, Sat 30 August to Wed 3 September - the bank holiday was 1 September...

1970: a change - Monday 24- Friday 28 August. Before the bank holiday. (Guests: Tim Hart & Maddy prior, Tony Rose, Orange & Blue, Nibs Matthews, Barnsley Sword...)

1971: Monday 23 - Friday 27 August. Yetties, Tony Rose, John Kirkpatrick, Derek & Dorothy Elliott. "Last year as a light-hearted venture, a War of the Roses contest was introduced. It proved so popular that it will be included again this year". That was the first time I went, and I remember that some people stayed on over the bank holiday weekend with informal sessions. Mike Harding was also there.

Derek Schofield

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: r.padgett
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 02:52 AM

I was there certainly in 1970 and 1971 and seem to remember being there when a number came in from Sheffield maybe 1969 and remember the guests outlined and detailed by Derek Schofield above including Nibs Matthews and the pretty newly formed Barnsley Longsword team with Ivor Allsop Derek Elliott and Jim Potter and the lads

Mike Harding, Tony Rose and War of the Roses still memorable

1977 was I believe when Walter Pardon and the Watersons appeared in the Drill Hall (I was there!) The early Wilsons were also seen in the Drill (two of 'em who sent for the others! and the Yetties

Ray

also Johnny Booker retrieving Mike Hardin'gs wallet from the beach (must have sunk)during the cricket match

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST,Malcolm Storey
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 03:17 AM

Thanks Derek. Knew I could rely on you.

I am keeping an eye on this thread, which, for once, is coming up with useful stuff and has not become a bun fight.

Interestingly although Mike Harding is mentioned I am almost certain that he was never actually booked for the festival.

Vin Garbutt spent most of one particular festival singing in the the Plough yard, getting lots of bookings and launching his not inconsiderable career.

I feel sure his first official booking at the festival was not until the 80s, but am prepared to be corrected on that. What do you reckon Vin?

Keep the memories coming and maybe Sally (Atkinson)can get some useful stuff for her book.

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: JHW
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 03:57 AM

The Drill Hall stage was wonderful to sing from but in the days I remember you could only get in to a festival event if you were a seasoned ticket holder so that meant using the back door

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST,Malcolm Storey
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 04:34 AM

Seasoned(?) ticket holder - an old salt I suppose.

If you remember singing from the stage at the Drill Hall can you give us more details please. Promise not to send the bailiffs round to collect your entry fee.

cheers

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST,Brimbacombe
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 05:24 AM

While we're in a useful mood, what are the origins/dates of other Whitby traditions?

Was the garland/singing of Wild Mountain Thyme done from the off? Has cricket always, to some extent, played a part at the festival? I assumed the latter was an 80s-onwards thing but reading this, maybe not.

And as there are a few Whitby organisers/old hands on this thread, it's as good a place as any to thank you all for making the festival what it is and always has been (i.e. bloody terrific).

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST,Peter
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 05:33 AM

Somebody asked me about the garland and song this year leaving me curious to know when it started and why.

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST,Malcolm Storey
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 05:41 AM

Just off to Suffolk for John & Katie's do, leaving Clarence (10 stone bull mastiff) in charge.

Will let you know about the Garland and Wild Mountain Thyme later.

cheers

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 10:39 AM

I think the garland started at the instigation of Paul and Georgina Smith. Georgina is now Georgina Boyes, and Paul Smith is a professor of folklore in Newfoundland. They were based in Sheffield/Rotherham and Georgina in particular had researched the Castleton Garland, which was presumably the inspiration for the Whitby version....
Malcolm will confirm or deny on his return...
Derek

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST,Malcolm Storey
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 11:44 AM

In Essex - but will recover.

It would not surprise me if Paul and Georgina were involved in the instigation of the Garland.
I know that the late Peter Glover's son was heavily involved in the construction of the early garlands, until the son moved to London, and they were carried in the early years by the "goon squad" - mostly people from the Darlington area.

Following the final parade the Garland was suspended from a ceiling beam in the old Spa and at the end of the last dance the Garland was slowly lowered to the waiting scrummage as people tried to grab a piece of heather to start their own particular tradition.

People then tended to mill around saying their goodbyes as the staff tried to herd them out of the door - not much changed there!

In about 1984/5 as this was going on Dave Brady of Swan Arcade broke into a gentle rendering of the Wild Mountain Time which could be heard all over the complex and when the assembled multitude joined in the chorus the roof nearly lifted, to coin a phrase.

Edmund and I turned to each other and said "We'll keep it in"!

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST,Brimbacombe
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 12:56 PM

Thanks Malcolm. I also have vague memories of there being a child's garland for a brief period, which was filled with sweets and released much earlier on the final evening for younger attendees.

The singing of Wild Mountain Time at Whitby matches anything I've heard in a sporting arena or anywhere else when it comes to mass communal singing that stirs emotions/makes the hairs on your arms stand on end. I would imagine that generations and generations to come will owe a debt of gratitude towards Dave Brady.

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: JHW
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 03:30 PM

My Drill Hall appearance must have been in the 80s? No idea who got me on stage or why, let alone what I sang or how they got me off again but I've remembered and praised the acoustics ever since in discussions of such things. I think the back door was at the stage end of the building.
Some time later someone put on a show there with PA speakers at the back of the room trying to defeat that acoustic!

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST,Georgina Boyes
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 05:24 PM

Yes Paul Smith started the Whitby Garland and based it on the Castleton one. I can't claim any credit for introducing it to Whitby apart from doing research on the the Derbyshire original. Unlike the Castleton Garland the first Whitby one was built up from an old bicycle wheel, is it still in use?

With Paul Smith and Dave Wood however, I do claim credit for the introduction of the first Wars of the Roses, including the final challenge which involved each team's chosen champion eating a whole sliced loaf, a family-sized Neapolitan ice cream, a tin of sardines and a jar of gherkins. Yorkshire's man made ice cream, sardine and gherkin sandwiches, the Lancashire lad had to retire retching.

And like Malcolm, although 'Wild Mountain Thyme' sung in other places might be a bit hackneyed, at Whitby and especially at the old Spa, it's a towering song.

Georgina

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST,Malcolm Storey
Date: 29 Aug 14 - 03:49 AM

Just in the interests of accuracy.

I am aware that the word is hearsay - just used previous guests spelling to emphasise the point.

I also know that it is Wild Mountain Thyme but used the same method - perhaps being too subtle?

Although Sid Kipper does sing of the Wild Mounting Time which sounds good for getting some fresh air.

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: The Sandman
Date: 29 Aug 14 - 09:08 AM

Malcolm,
I played whitby as a booked guest,with my ex wife, Sue, the year you took over, funny you cant remember, because you said to me you couldnt pay my expenses[ 80 pounds] the first year because you hadnt done well financially, this was after we had worked all week,found our own accomodation[staying with jon and angie barker in whitby], to spare you expense]
i subsquently played for you in the 1990s, possibly 1996, when you put our accomodation way out of town[ something i did not think was very suitable] considering we had travelled from ireland by public transport and had two small children with us, so we had to push our shopping great distance up hills to our self catering out of town house, another reason it was not suitable, was that you expected me to perform in concerts after walking fair distances in the pissing rain, a classic example of an organiser expecting professionalism from a performer, but not being professional in their own organisation., to be fair to you I think this was one of the few occasions when you were not professional, most people are of the opinion that overall you ran the festival in a professional way
this was the year you shouted abuse at me while i was playing cricket against you, calling me a wanker, you clearly have a selective memory.
   i was involved in the late seventies with the starting of the singaround in the[then] cutty sark, it was the idea of a number of people who were not entirely happy with the singaround in the drill hall,these were, chris timson, ann gregson, all the wilson family, myself,possibly colin cater, pete stephenson, john knight.
i played with my ex wife, Sue, before you took over 1978,79, 80 and we were well received by audiences and treated well by the organiser.
overall, I think you did a good job in running the festival successfully for many years.

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Aug 14 - 02:19 PM

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST,Malcolm Storey
Date: 29 Aug 14 - 02:22 PM

Message received Dick - again.

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: The Sandman
Date: 30 Aug 14 - 04:20 AM

I was also there in 1974 75 76,possibly 77 but not as a booked performer, I thought it was a great festival.
I repeat Malcolm did a good job keeping the festival going subsequently.

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Aug 14 - 04:47 AM

Keep the memories (however foggy) coming.

This could be a really useful thread.

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 31 Aug 14 - 05:44 AM

Well, anyone who remembers Pete Rowley will remember that he was of somewhat elephantine proportions. One night in the Elsinore he got so plastered that he could barely stand up. What's more, he couldn't remember the address of his B&B.

That led to an army of us trying to prop him up and steer him round the town, asking 'is it down that street?', 'is it up there?', while Pete kept shouting 'I'll fall in the harbour!'.

We mightn't have had much money in those days but we never stuck for laughs.

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: The Sandman
Date: 31 Aug 14 - 06:58 AM

The rev ken loveless, was regular in the seventies, a great entertainer and I seem to remember him standing in for a guest who didnt turn up at short notice, despite the fact he had several malts, he did a sterling job, fell over backwards whilst on stage in the spa, picked himself up and carried on, His concertina workshops were also very entertaining.
I remember seeing martin windsor drink a whole bottle of whiskey in the drill hall during a set with red sullivan and still standing up and appearing sober.

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 01 Sep 14 - 06:37 AM

Here's a contemporary reminisce about Whitby, something that happened on the first day of this year's festival in fact.

I was in the Tourist Office trying to sort out bus timetables when a woman arrived at the counter. She'd obviously arrived on speck and wnated to know where it all happened.

The assistant told her where the festival office was and then claimed that, although there are some fixed events (663 of them in case he hadn't counted), a lot of it happens spontaneously.

"They mostly just Goth about from pub to pub", he said.

Goths? Goths? I'd have that man know that some of us consider ourselves Grots, not Goths!

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: r.padgett
Date: 01 Sep 14 - 10:39 AM

Not heard that expression, Goth about, but I think I understand the plot

Ray

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 Sep 14 - 01:07 PM

could it have been goeth about from pub to pub , but the assistant was not talking queens english, or yorkshire

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 01 Sep 14 - 02:08 PM

No, because if he'd said goeth it would have come out as goeth, when in fact it came out as goth.

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 Sep 14 - 05:29 PM

good goth, as violet elisabeth of "william" books might say

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: Spectacled Warbler
Date: 01 Sep 14 - 05:35 PM

Has Ha!!

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: r.padgett
Date: 02 Sep 14 - 05:54 AM

What are Goths anyway and have they any similarities with folkies ~ o dear I see some already

Ray

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Sep 14 - 07:56 PM

Come along children - let's get back to proper memories and stop being silly.

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: Betsy
Date: 03 Sep 14 - 05:43 PM

I remember seeing a great concertina player anddecent singer - Lea Nicholson at Whitby in the early 70's. He was a booked guest ,and he finished a set with - "Urban Spaceman".
I feel (could be wrong) that he had blotted his copybook straying off the Traditional Path because I never heard of him again.
Strange what one remembers - n'est pas ?

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 04 Sep 14 - 08:07 AM

Google Lea Nicholson ... there were several albums and one of them is freely available on the net....
Derek

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST,Malcolm Storey
Date: 04 Sep 14 - 08:28 PM

You are, as ever, correct Derek.

It never ceases to amaze me just how little people who profess to be folk devotees actually know about the genre.

I am not trying to be derogatory or rude but it should be simple for quite a lot of stuff that takes up space on mudcat to be accessed on the web.

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: Mo the caller
Date: 05 Sep 14 - 03:34 AM

'Looking things up' is not the same as talking about things on Mudcat.
Look at us now, Whitby is weeks over but we enjoy it so much that we can't resist opening threads about it to mull over the past and look forward to the next one.

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST,Les B
Date: 05 Sep 14 - 04:09 AM

Ah Pete Rowley, I remember going for a weekend 'on spec' & kindly being offered floorspace in someones gaff for a couple of nights. Pete was one of the residents & upon arrival & inspecting the loo declared that it was not up to standard as it didn't have " a straining post or heaving strap". I soon realised I was in for a jolly weekend. Pete was, for a time, musician for the Southport Swords, & we still play his particular version of the 'Keel Row'
Cheers Les

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: Betsy
Date: 05 Sep 14 - 07:47 PM

Derek / Malcolm ,
The point of my message regarding Lea Nicholson (who I do not know personally) was not, where I can Google re:- personal information or his his C.D.'s. I hope you can understand that in addition to spelling his name correctly, I am perfectly au fait with search engines, and therefore Malcolm you ARE being derogatory and rude. The thrust of my enquiry was - did Lea Nicholson as a vituoso traditional concertina player, become personna non grata at Whitby Festival. He was seemingly never heard of again at Whitby but continued to be held in the highest regard by many top musicians.
My first post asks the question "Did he blot his copy book ?" - simple question - no need to go off on a tangent(s).

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Sep 14 - 06:11 AM

I reckon its possible Malcolm was not even aware of lea nicholson during the time he was running the festival.
lea nicholson can be found on face book as i understand he plays electronic music these days, so sadly it is a bit unlikely he plays concertina any more.

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST,Malcolm Storey
Date: 06 Sep 14 - 06:46 AM

Betsy - sorry if I offended you - it was meant as a general observation and I can now see that it might be taken personally - hindsight is a wonderful thing.

With regard to your original question about blotted copybooks, without knowing the exact year you are talking about it is hard to answer. I think it might have more to do with how the festival was run in those days when very few people were booked and they were worked really hard. (I had the devil's own job persuading John Kirkpatrick to return once I took over song and music bookings.)

There was a tendency to not see the same faces that often - at least as booked guests.

Sometime soon I intend getting together an attendance list compiled from programmes and newsletters and that will probably help to answer some of the queries.

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST,Guest Betsy
Date: 06 Sep 14 - 07:25 AM

Best Wishes Malcolm,
I was also trawling my Whitby memory banks and was recalling meeting some wonderful people for the first time. Amongst them June Tabor and Clive Woolf - dear me !!! Tempus fugit.
Cheers

Betsy

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST,Clive Pownceby
Date: 06 Sep 14 - 07:40 AM

Malcolm, I'm sure you have a comprehensive library of programmes and newsletters but if you find yourself short of any particular years when you get around to that mammoth list, let me know. I don't have a full set but there's a heck of a lot of box files here! One always thinks one will have all the time in the world to revisit them but I'm still waiting for that free time to kick in! The 'Peter Bellamy years' of the newsletter are so memorable.

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Sep 14 - 07:43 AM

clive woolf was often in the singarounds in the drill hall in the seventies, does anyone remember chas lippeat and his sie kick prof, i believe chas blotted his copy book by going round whitby in his car announcing over a loud speaker how harrisons garages had messed his car up. is that so malcolm?

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: r.padgett
Date: 06 Sep 14 - 12:25 PM

Clive Woolf yes I do remember and Pat Woolf I have on fb ~ I think Clive is still singing and they have family

God knows where Chas Lippeat is now but his ex Liz Parkhurst I have her on fb too ~ she probably cares little I expect! he did the loudspeaker thing at Redcar ff too ~ lived in Sheffield and was summat to do with publicity with a bank

Ray

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST,Malcolm Storey
Date: 06 Sep 14 - 02:17 PM

I am trying not to keep coming in but almost every posting kicks another memory off.

Clive Woolf I remember well not only from Whitby but also his time in the library at Cecil Sharp House.

A very fine singer - I have some recordings of him somewhere - yet another mammoth task but I am on with it.

Clive P. thanks for the offer which I know you have made previously. I have most programmes but am short of quite a few newsletters.

Chas Lippeat I remember but although he may well have committed the act you mention Dick, I am fairly sure we did not kick him off the team. He just did not turn up one year as far as I remember.

His associate Prof was from the Leeds area and I recall seeing some filming / early videoing that he had done of dance teams at the festival. We all thought they were exceptionally good in capturing the essence of the dances and showing them to good effect. Would be interested to know what happened to that material. I believe Prof was self employed and pressure of making a living sadly stopped him from being at Whitby after the mid 1980s.

Think that covers the latest stuff - should I start on the photographs now ...... or perhaps next month?

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 06 Sep 14 - 02:35 PM

Malcolm,
I too have most of the newsletters and the programmes. I have offered them to Sally for the 50th next year but if you want to come to some arrangement with her you can both have them. I have a policy of passing things like this on to the next generation where possible for obvious reasons, but I'm well aware some of us coffin dodgers will also find them useful.

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: r.padgett
Date: 07 Sep 14 - 02:46 AM

Prof mentioned from Leeds would have been Caroline's partner who went to live in Scarborough died a couple of years ago maybe able to contact her

Ray

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Sep 14 - 05:08 AM

chas, also made a recodings of the 1981?festival which were supposed to be sold to raise funds, i remember Sue and I recorded nottingham ale and a set of tunes for the recordings, anybody have any copies?

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Sep 14 - 05:37 AM

i have just found a cassette which has a music workshop at whitby by eric storey, and two songs, one is me and Sue singing and playing jock of hazeldene which was not a song that we ever recorded on to vinyl or cd.

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: Mo the caller
Date: 07 Sep 14 - 07:04 AM

Eric's band was one of the backbones of the dance programmes in the 80s.

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST,Malcolm Storey
Date: 07 Sep 14 - 07:31 AM

Mo - I think you will find that Eric was more involved in the 70s and not the 80s although Sue, his wife (widow), would probably be able to be more accurate with dates.

For a lot of years they spent a lot of the summer months in France in their mobile home and very rarely got to the whole festival.

Keep digging Dick, it's amazing what you find!

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: Mo the caller
Date: 07 Sep 14 - 05:49 PM

It was early 80s that we started coming, one year his band seemed to be on quite a lot. Also Yorkshire Garland a Beverley band that I very much enjoyed.
Elaine Beckenham as a caller (I still use her dance Yorkshire Rose when I want something gentle. Nibs Matthews, Madeline Hollis and John Lagden, taught us things about Playford dances that we'd never imagined. Ralph Meakin and the helpful members of his club introduced us to American (modern western) Squares. We learnt so much and tried to dance from the early morning workshop to the Late Night Extra. Not to mention dashing all round Whitby to get to clog workshops, harmony singing, etc. and collect daughter from kids events.

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST,Malcolm Storey
Date: 07 Sep 14 - 07:41 PM

I'll let you off with an odd year Mo.

Yorkshire Garland were the club band at the Folk Union One and were in fact from Hull. They worked a lot with the late Rita Jewitt / Blood who was responsible for introducing lots of us to traditional dance as well as being the main organiser of FU1 when the Watersons moved on.

Madeleine Hollis is now Madeleine Smith and still teaching at all levels everything from CDM, American and Stepping to Playford.

Exciting times.

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: r.padgett
Date: 08 Sep 14 - 02:34 AM

From my fb page Doc Rowe says why not involve Tony Foxworthy and Graham Binless and ask for their memories also being early participants

We have lost many of the early people of course ~ the Sheffielders and Leeds/Wakefield mob who were folk club goers and somewhat younger and the who took part in eating contests and three legged races and tiddly winks down the Abbey steps

Barnsley lads such as John Langley and Gordon Riley were the worlds worst three legged races (fit lads but legs not same length!) and John's tiddly winking summat to behold!

Ray

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST,Malcolm Storey
Date: 08 Sep 14 - 07:49 PM

It might be possible to involve Foxy but I would be surprised if Grahame (correct spelling) would be interested.

I recall Bob Spray (he of in for me) looking to recruit members for the Yorkshire "team". He spotted a young bloke on the campsite who caught a butterfly and promptly ate it. Yorkshire won the eating competition that year.

In later years Roy Atkinson's aquatic cycle races and bum shaving competitions are well remembered by some - for a variety of reasons!

Keep 'em coming although I am out of circulation for the next few days, I will keep in touch.

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: r.padgett
Date: 09 Sep 14 - 03:54 AM

Harry Boardman, Bill Price, Rennie Pickles, Jim Potter (still singing even) Nic Jones, Tony Rose

The Cutty Sark, Jim Mageean, and Wilsons ~ the year the Cutty changed hands and Jim Mageean who had put down a deposit on his accommodation which new landlord knew nothing about and was not honoured was somewhat annoyed

Story is that he pursued old landlord for his deposit money (well done Jim!)

Cutty became years later The Tap and Spile (after the Mageean saga) and Peter and Sheree Fleming took over and were more than genial hosts ~ they should have some input and memories and I seem to recollect song sessions afternoon and evening those days run by me Booker and Jude Knight for very many years ~ Jude will have some memories as will Dorothy and Nadine [Elliott] and Parky and Robin Garside

Ray

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: nutty
Date: 09 Sep 14 - 05:45 AM

Jim's sessions at the Cutty Sark and later at the Yacht Club? were co-hosted by Ken Hughes who until very late in life cycled across the country from festival to festival camping in friends back gardens.
Great singarounds with people such as Rod Shearman, The Wilsons, The Keelers and with festival guests dropping in when they had time.
These were always a highlight of my festival as you didn't need a ticket to participate in the best Whitby could provide (although now totally maritime - the last comment still holds true)

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 09 Sep 14 - 05:50 AM

Lesley Boardman, Harry's widow spent an afternoon in the Black Horse this year and she seemed to be enjoying the rich variety of material that happens in there.






I'm not sure Harry would have!

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Sep 14 - 07:41 PM

Good to hear that Lesley Boardman is still around.

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: Spectacled Warbler
Date: 10 Sep 14 - 05:35 PM

Early 80s when the pubs shut in the afternoon.   A bunch of Barnsley / South Yorkshire singaround crowd, Brian the Potty Poet, possibly a certain Mr P of this parish, plus plenty more, decided to go to the Metropole after the pub shut at 3, and sat on the floor in one of the lobbies to keep on singing.   Drunk as skunks many of us.   Me anyhow.   After several raucous songs it was decided that we would sing Eidelweiss, but none of us were allowed to sing any of the right notes.    That was, until one of the hotel staff came down to throw us out 'cos the guests were complaining.    Happy days!

I did have a photo but think it's been recycled.

Joy

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: selby
Date: 10 Sep 14 - 06:17 PM

Who remembers The Hiring Fair where many good artists showcase their talents.
Keith

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: r.padgett
Date: 11 Sep 14 - 03:28 AM

O yes the hiring fair presided over by Derek Elliott and Mike Soar at different times

This was really a free concertish do held in the Metropol Hotel I think


I do not think many if any "winners" were booked or if there was

any prize?


Ray

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 11 Sep 14 - 04:02 PM

Didn't they get the Booker Prize presented by your old mate, Johnny Booker. Nope! Must have dreamt it.

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: r.padgett
Date: 12 Sep 14 - 12:54 AM

You were busy in the Yacht club at the bottom of the Khyber weren't you Steve? When not taking on the Wilsons and others in folk trivia

Ray

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: The Sandman
Date: 12 Sep 14 - 03:45 AM

I remember Ray, when he was a callow youth who only drank orange juice.

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: r.padgett
Date: 12 Sep 14 - 12:11 PM

What goes round comes round I reckon I am supposed to sup non sugar stuff ~ The beer was the root of all ills really

Ray

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 12 Sep 14 - 02:34 PM

Was that root beer then Ray?

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST,Malcolm Storey
Date: 13 Sep 14 - 04:14 AM

Back for a couple of days.

Sorry Ray, the Hiring Fair was never in the Metropole.

It started life in the Football Club on Sunday afternoon under the stewardship of Mike Soar.

We moved it elsewhere one year (due to a misunderstanding to do with football fixtures) but quickly moved it back again when the Football club said how disappointed they were and that they really enjoyed having it there. I believe Derek did step in one year when Mike was unavailable and in latter years John Prentice took on the mantle.

By the way it did not just happen but was properly administered by Mike and John.

As regards prizes, what prizes? It was not a competition but a chance for up and coming acts to display their talent to organisers and folk club movers and shakers. It largely succeeded in doing that and just for the record some of the performers did subsequently get bookings at WFW.

Regarding the so called Folk Trivia quizzes - they were a lot more serious than that.

That said one of Peter Bellamy's ones started with the question "Identify Child ballad number 197 OR write your name in block capitals at the top of your quiz paper". Dave Burland failed on both counts - honest!   

One of Roy Atkinson's consisted of a list of questions to which the correct answer was "Pass".

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: r.padgett
Date: 13 Sep 14 - 04:38 AM

Well I never ~

Mike Soar I saw with his dickybow but mm, football club yea seem to recall seeing Cloudstreet there and Lucky bags was it I know Ray Black and Roy Hardacre used to look for guests when they had a club

Memory is clouding and but not the root beer! Steve

Ray

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Sep 14 - 04:40 AM

"It largely succeeded in doing that and just for the record some of the performers did subsequently get bookings at WFW."
I trust being a good yorkshireman you paid them handsomely and they all lived happily ever after, whats the yorkshire saying say nowt, take nowt and give nowt and when you see a namby pamby southerner playing cricket bowl them out and call them a wanker, we must play creeket again sometime malcolm before we need zimmer frames.

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: selby
Date: 13 Sep 14 - 09:32 AM

I have it in mt head that the Hiring Fair did have a spell at the Metropole. I have a memory of a hot day sat under a open window listening to acts to give bookings to. Age certainly dims the brain cell.
Keith

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: Michael
Date: 13 Sep 14 - 05:31 PM

But The Metropole don't have no windows, Keith.

Mike

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: selby
Date: 13 Sep 14 - 05:50 PM

It used to have a bar at the front that had opening windows c1982
Keith

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST,Malcolm Storey
Date: 13 Sep 14 - 06:25 PM

The room in the Metropole that was originally used for song events was called the American Bar. Fancy me forgetting that when I think of all the great and good that performed there including the Holme Valley lads.

It was where the Chinese Restaurant main area is now and there was a long narrow bar along most of the wall away from the cliff.

It is perfectly feasible that the Hiring Fair did move there for one year. Well spotted Keith. I had been thinking of the Ballroom, which at that time was not really equipped for the sort of event the Hiring Fair was.

Not that it is much better now, in my opinion.

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 14 Sep 14 - 04:38 AM

Go on then .................. 100

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: selby
Date: 14 Sep 14 - 04:49 AM

Thanks for that Malcolm was suspecting my memory cell.

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: Michael
Date: 14 Sep 14 - 06:14 AM

Sorry!!! Must have been before my time.
Mike

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Sep 14 - 03:12 AM

I'm pretty sure I first saw Artisan in the Hiring Fair at the Meropole in that front room, in the early 80's.

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: r.padgett
Date: 15 Sep 14 - 03:21 AM

Just seen Joy's posting re Brian the Potty Poet, yep remember it well I still have a least one or his books of potty stuff and him "meeping" some crazy characters and no drugs except alcohol of course

Brian was a one eyed Milkman who had an electric milk float, from Sheffield and on one of the hilly ist milk rounds imaginable

We went with I think Patrick Walker, Brian, Booker, me and assorted others to a restaurant where Brian's imaginary friend "Tony Grapevine" ~ a big round tube of cardboard with a slit at mouth from which hung a cigarette which smoked [air circulation] and dressed to resemble a bloke

Well the poor waitress was non plussed when Brian starts ordering for Tony Grapevine, not sure whether to laugh or cry really.

he also had a joke dog lead, no dog just a lead unbelievable!!

Ray

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Sep 14 - 04:10 AM

yes, i remember him not at whtby but when i was playing at sheffield grapes, bit unnerving to have a fellow with an imaginary dog in the audience, he even barked once and told the imginary dog to be quiet.

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: selby
Date: 15 Sep 14 - 06:27 AM

Thank you Guest I agree with you but was not 100% certain

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: Mo the caller
Date: 15 Sep 14 - 11:04 AM

In recent years there was a sort of Hiring Fair in the Spa cafe - there was a blackboard and people claimed their spot in the running order.
I only watched 1 act there, don't know if anyone got bookings from it.
But Whitby is doing Youth stuff now which could also give performers a chance to be seen, and the Newcastle Degree concert of course.

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: Spectacled Warbler
Date: 15 Sep 14 - 12:55 PM

Yes!!    I'd forgotten about the meeping and Tony Grapevine!!   Thanks for reminding me of that, Ray.    Fun times.

Joy

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST,Malcolm Storey
Date: 15 Sep 14 - 05:10 PM

Taffy Thomas had one of those imaginary dog leads.

Thought of getting one myself - it would have saved carrying the plastic bag around - but unfortunately I could not afford the licence!

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Sep 14 - 03:49 PM

How refreshing - next!

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Sep 14 - 06:41 PM

was jovial jim ever seen at whitby?

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Sep 14 - 08:08 PM

Good question Dick - could one be a trifle more specific?

Which jovial jim are we referring to?

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: r.padgett
Date: 17 Sep 14 - 04:43 AM

The Plough of course was an early focal place for folkies. the upstairs room was used a folk club in the early days run by Wacky Baccy Jim Wilkinson (if I can say that!) in normal times

The Plough had one guy who was retired RAF with a great moustache and did not really like folkies and was bit rude (he was bar man) ! Did not see much of the landlord

Jim took over as bar man during folk week and the bar was busy with folkies singing and playing at every opportunity in the front bar (long room) middle room has stairs up to club singing room and accommodation, and small bar anurrentlkd wooden posh bench seats and I think a Grandfather clock ~ most days folkies such as Pat and Clive Woolf and the Scottish singer whose name escapes me ~ ah Willie Scott and Fred Jordan and on occasion Pete Coe ~ now PC and friends decided to put food on in there and I bought something ~ put on aplate which promptly fell off' whoops!

Well a centre for meeting of course, the back room (near the steps) had people like Tony Wilson and Tom Napper playing duelling banjos concurrently ~ what a racket driving people out ~ the yard was full of people playing singing and boozing of course

Ray no doubt others can expand

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST,Malcolm Storey
Date: 17 Sep 14 - 05:05 PM

Re: the Plough

Frank was the man with the moustache, he was the actual landlord. His son in law Brian ran the pub for a number of years in the seventies and eighties when Frank could be found in the small bar which was known as - wait for it - Frank's bar!

I recall a Sunday morning briefing / meeting of the booked guests and representatives of the bands and dance teams in the days of Grahame Binless. There must have been nearly a dozen people there - how times change.

anurrentlkd - translation from Barnsley please.

I think we all had good memories of the Plough - afternoons with Roy Atkinson and Steve Gardham spring to mind.

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: r.padgett
Date: 18 Sep 14 - 03:27 AM

Gobbledigoinga mind of its its own ok I am plagued by it summat to do with the lap top hav

See what I mean??

Ray

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: Betsy
Date: 18 Sep 14 - 07:29 AM

Jovial Jim??? could that have been Jim the Fish from Hull. Loud singer good fun, he was good mates with all the Hull crowd Watersons , Ian Manuel, McGarry , Jil Pidd etc.

Good lad - he was easily recognised - he had a "water-cooled syrup" (his joke not mine) . He had a badly-fitting light coloured wig, underneath which, on occasions he used to sweat rather profusely and sweat would run down his forehead. Hence ....

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Sep 14 - 12:03 PM

No, Jim the Fish was Jim Parkinson. He used to turn up with a fish lorry/pickup. At the annual booksale on Bank Holiday Monday on the bandstand we were all there looking for antiquarian material and Jim rolls up, buys 5 yards of books and chucks 'em in the back of the pick-up and off he goes. This would have been about 1969.

He moved away to live in Bristol where he died some years back.

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST,Malcolm Storey
Date: 18 Sep 14 - 03:36 PM

Just an aside regarding Jim the Fish.

After he moved to Bristol he arranged a tour of Folk Clubs in the Bristol area for Jock (Ian Manual). When asked what sort of fee he wanted Jock replied that he would be happy for a bed, some basic expenses and his beer paying for.

Jock did the same tour again the next year when all the clubs paid him a fee!

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 18 Sep 14 - 03:57 PM

With Jim already there and Jock visiting I'm surprised they didn't drink the place dry.

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: r.padgett
Date: 19 Sep 14 - 02:52 AM

"Jock did the same tour again the next year when all the clubs paid him a fee!"

Well I got that one Malcolm, and beer wasn't that expensive was it?

Ray

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Sep 14 - 04:07 AM

beer is always expensive if you are a yorkshireman.

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Sep 14 - 05:55 PM

It's the careful upbringing Dick.

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Sep 14 - 05:58 PM

Yes - answer to thread

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST,folkiedave
Date: 05 Oct 14 - 03:28 PM

I wrote up some of my memories for Sally who is compiling the book. I am glad Malcolm (as well as myself) remembers the story of the butterfly and the eating contest - though I thought it was the Seaman's Mission where he was catching the butterfly.

Two of the Yorkshire Lancashire events were a race up the Abbey Steps - won by Rob Lennox - and a race around the harbour pubs - having a half in each.

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: JHW
Date: 06 Oct 14 - 06:34 AM

For quite some years whenever, a load of us from Darlington used to sing in the Elsinore on the Saturday After the festival week then go down to Ruswarp and engage in maritime battles on the boats there with folks from Southport I think?

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: r.padgett
Date: 06 Oct 14 - 09:25 AM

The year Tony Capstick judged the Sandcastle Competition on the beech

behind the Board Inn we bought a crate of guiness for our team (guess!)


The pubs shut at 3pm and Tony arrived late ~ well he ended up banging

on the pub door as he knew them

He says Malcolm (Storey) say Barnsley team cannot win) we were winners though!!


Ray

many TC stories about!

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST,Brimbacombe
Date: 06 Oct 14 - 11:00 AM

Given how inventive/team-spirited things used to be, I can't help but wonder if we should start petitioning the government to re-introduce the old policy of closing pubs in the afternoons for Whitby Folk Week every year. (That's not to say things aren't team-spirited or wonderful these days, by the way, and some stuff such as the Family Folktunes are great. But half-pissed folk legends involved in sandcastle-building competitions? Great!)

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 06 Oct 14 - 11:23 AM

Just writing up my reminiscences from my diaries for the Hull Folk Archive. I kept a very detailed diary, some would say too detailed, for most of 1969.

That would have been what, the fifth festival?

It ran from Saturday 30th August to Wednesday 3rd September, the Bank Holiday being on the 1st, so somewhat late.

My girlfriend, Pam Brown, and I got a lift there on the Friday night with Leo Lynch, one of Hull's resident Irishmen. There were large contingents from Barnsley, Liverpool, Harrogate, Hull and Leeds, in fact I noted almost twice as many people as the previous year. It was obviously the year in which song started to swamp the sedate dance side. The main singing on the Friday was going on in the Star.

The Saturday night ceilidh at The Drill Hall was absolutely crammed. Mick Robinson was out of his skull dancing on the stage. The dance teams that were there included Liverpool Sword Dancers and North Skelton Sword dancers.

Sunday singing in the Star again then when that shut more singing on the pier and then in the afternoon a football cum rugby match on the beach Hull v Leeds.

Monday was the famous bookstall at the bandstand. This was the year Jim Parkinson turned up with his fish lorry and bought 30 bob's worth of books at 5 bob a yard. We thrown out of all the pubs in the evening so we had song sessions on the bandstand then on the pier.

Having sobered up by the Tuesday Pam and I bought some tickets off Hilary Waterson and went to a lecture on mummers plays by Paul Smith.
We went to a singaround in the afternoon and then into the Star for more singing at night, followed by a late-night spot at the Drill Hall.

Wednesday morning, more sobering up with a lecture by Harry Boardman on Lancashire Dialect songs. On the last night ceilidh Pam and I sang.
After that we all went to the beach for a big bonfire party organised by Mick Robbie. Must have got me shirt and socks wet as I burnt em trying to dry em out at the campfire. Got back to the campsite at 3.30 a.m. The next day Jim Parky gave us a lift in his fish lorry to Middlesborough and from there we hitched to Northumberland, seahouse and the Farne islands with Rob Lennox.

Sad git I know! I made a list of all the people I knew who were there if anybody is interested.

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: JP2
Date: 06 Oct 14 - 01:04 PM

What year was the Mattesson's sponsored festival?

I have vague recollections of a song contest in praise of pork products and a goody bag of salami,polony,black pudding etc, being handed out in the Old Spa Ballroom when he winning song was sung.

Did this happen or have I mis-remembered it?

And who won the song contest,I think we should be told!

My first Whitby Festival was 1968 I think,'cos I had a new car that year with a reg number of PRY 194G which I'm sure is '68.

JP2

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: JHW
Date: 06 Oct 14 - 02:27 PM

Were The Salamis there?

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 06 Oct 14 - 05:01 PM

I don't think the Salamis were born in 1969! (only joking, but no they came along a lot later.)

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 06 Oct 14 - 06:57 PM

Steve ... are you sure it wasn't Southport Swords rather than Liverpool Sword Dancers (who I have never heard of), and Loftus rather than North Skelton, who were not in existence in 1969, as far as I know.....
Of course, I was at home in Liverpool at the time and you were there, but .....
And Hilary Waterson later moved to Manchester as I knew her there in about 1971 or 2, when Alan Hodson organised a visit from Hull folk people to Manchester university folk song society (of which I was secretary). It was I think Lal and Mike, Jock Manuel and Jim Eldon. She's now in Australia, so Norma tells me.
Derek

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST,Malcolm Storey
Date: 06 Oct 14 - 08:10 PM

Well Steve has started it all off again.

Lots of corrections to do but the main one is to disagree with old mate Steve for once - and that hasn't happened very often in the last nearly fifty years.

Just about dates really.

AUGUST BANK HOLIDAY MONDAY HAS NEVER OCCURED ON SEPTEMBER 1ST. HOw COULD IT?

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 07 Oct 14 - 03:59 AM

AUGUST BANK HOLIDAY MONDAY HAS NEVER OCCURED ON SEPTEMBER 1ST. HOw COULD IT?

According to Wikipedia, the bank holiday was on 1st September in 1969.


".... The rule seems to have been to select the weekend of the last Saturday in August, so that in 1968 and 1969 Bank Holiday Monday actually fell in September."


DC

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: r.padgett
Date: 07 Oct 14 - 04:11 AM

Now who is clever!

SG would never have admitted it anyway

Ray

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST,Georgina Boyes
Date: 07 Oct 14 - 05:15 AM

This is almost turning into a potential case study for legend researchers - or entomologists:

The story I heard about the Yorkshire champion for the Eating Contest was that Bob Spray (the Yorkshire Captain) had discovered him lying on a tombstone by the Abbey eating a moth.

Georgina

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 07 Oct 14 - 09:11 AM

Derek,
You are very likely correct. In my drunken stupor I just noted they were from Liverpool. Near enough. I think big Tony Wilson was in charge if that helps. And Loftus sounds more likely as well. We danced North Skelton as our first dance and Loftus is very like N Skelton. Just blame it on the out of body and mind experiences we all had at the time.

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 07 Oct 14 - 09:19 AM

I remember the eating contest more clearly. It must have been one of the very brief periods I was in remission from the booze. The Yorkshire entry was a tall skinny fella, nothing like a glutton might look. On the menu were a full loaf of sliced bread each, some beer, some raw eggs still in shells and a tin of sardines each. The Lancy fella went off at ten to the dozen and tried to eat the loaf first. The Yorky lad was as cool as owt and just took his time. I think he started with the eggs and then opened the sardines and made a sandwich with them. By this time the Lancy had stupidly started guzzling the beer and the bread he'd swallowed started to expand with the beer and he keeled over and had to depart quickly. I don't even remember if the Yorky finished everything off but he won by default anyway.

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 07 Oct 14 - 10:12 AM

Doug Chadwick is correct. The "Late Summer" bank holiday was in September in 1968 and 1969.
Now then Malcolm, you should have bought and read a copy of my book on the history of Towersey festival (on the bank holiday weekend) - all was revealed in there, page 23....
Derek

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 07 Oct 14 - 10:15 AM

Tony Wilson, though from Liverpool, was certainly a leading light in the Southport folk scene - Bothy Folk Club and all...
Steve - you "out of body and mind experiences" were alcohol fuelled based on your earlier message!
Derek

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 07 Oct 14 - 01:52 PM

I wish to aver, apropos of a discussion further up the page, that the Southport Swords were always known as the Southport Swords, not the Liverpool Sword Dancers.

Thinks. Was there ever a sword dance team based in Liverpool?

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Oct 14 - 02:22 PM

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield - PM
Date: 07 Oct 14 - 10:12 AM

Doug Chadwick is correct. The "Late Summer" bank holiday was in September in 1968 and 1969.
Now then Malcolm, you should have bought and read a copy of my book on the history of Towersey festival (on the bank holiday weekend) - all was revealed in there, page 23....
Derek
Malcolm can only read Yorkshire, none of your southern namby pamby Crewe,Literature

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 07 Oct 14 - 02:36 PM

Derek, Absolutely!

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST,Malcolm Storey
Date: 07 Oct 14 - 04:18 PM

That's one to the Mudcat research team - still a lot of catching up to do.

Those two years were part of the experimental period when the Bank Holiday was in the process of being moved from the first Monday in August. I believe the legislation was eventually enacted in 1973 but no doubt one of the research team can verify that - there's Brownie points on offer here.

I have more than enough books Derek - some of which I have not finished colouring yet. A book on a festival I have never had any desire to visit would hardly be top of my list. Now one on the National at Keele, Loughborough and Sutton Bonnington might just be of interest - the ball is back with you.

Incidentally I had the butterfly location from Bob Spray but people camped in odd places back then.

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: Betsy
Date: 07 Oct 14 - 05:18 PM

I'm loving this thread, mainly for all the (human) inaccuracies and how some, remember the most inconsequential details and details I'd forgot.
To JP2 - I have a method of those car Number plates and I always remembered ? / believed that the "C" was 1965 , so D was 66, E67, F 68 and G....
Pedantic or what ? - just Heartbeat rekindled my interest many years ago in such trivia.
To Steve G. I thought you would have given Nancy Robbo a mention, perhaps, you do, some where else it was alway s good to see her shewas a good lass with her ideal partner Mick.
I would say Bob Spray was many things , but a Moth Eater ? Georgina you have opened-up another avenue which I didn't know existed. Wow.

Cheers
Betsy

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Oct 14 - 05:32 PM

Bob Spray, DIFFICULT to forget.

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 07 Oct 14 - 05:36 PM

It wasn't Bob who ate the moth, it was the Yorkshire competitor who Bob co-opted. Nancy was indeed there, and Mindy. I offered to post the list but nobody responded.

Mick was a great loss, amazing to think he was only 44 when he went. It felt as if he had already had 2 lifetimes. For somebody who rarely performed he left a massive gap on the folk scene in 1974.

We rarely bought tickets in the early days. All monies were reserved for booze. I remember at one of the first festivals trying to blag my way into the Drill Hall ceilidh. On the door were Hazel and Mac (Stuart Macfarlane of Fettlers). Hazel was on form, physically ejecting anybody without correct documentation. They had these little rubber stamps that they stamped on your wrist to say you'd paid. While Hazel was dealing with somebody else Mac quickly stamped my wrist. She went purple when she saw it but I got in.

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: Betsy
Date: 07 Oct 14 - 06:14 PM

Stuart Macfarlane of Fettlers MBE no less - I wonder if he would have been disqualified from receiving his gong - if it had been made public that he had inadvertently (or otherwise) stamped your wrist. Seriously though - a nice enough bloke and blessed with one those great voices where the person (seemingly) effortlessly and tunefully booms out a song in perfect key. Not many around - apart from in the Wilsons I suppose.

Cheers
Betsy