Duos at folk clubs

Subject: Duos at folk clubs
From: GUEST,FloraG
Date: 13 Oct 14 - 07:12 AM

When we go to folk club without the rest of the band we tend to perform as a duo - I accompany him and he accompanies me on something. I'm better at playing and he is better at singing. I think its more interesting than each doing a solo - and OK if everybody is asked to do 2 things. The other night everybody was asked to do one thing - which is what we did - but it meant I did not really get a turn - apart from accompanying someone else.
What do other folk clubs do with duos?
FloraG

Subject: RE: Duos at folk clubs
From: Mo the caller
Date: 13 Oct 14 - 07:15 AM

I thought the rule was one for each person, but I don't go to folk clubs much (too busy dancing), just sing-arounds at festivals.

Subject: RE: Duos at folk clubs
From: Splott Man
Date: 13 Oct 14 - 07:37 AM

It's not a rule as such, it's up to the MC on the night. They should be experienced enough at running a night and know how much time there is to share out. It's better to have one shot than no shot really. If you're a regular, you'll get your fair share in the long run.

Splott Man

Subject: RE: Duos at folk clubs
From: alex s
Date: 13 Oct 14 - 07:48 AM

Some organisers (eg Nick Dow) make sure that individuals get a turn if they wish. Others treat the band as a single entity. I prefer the former approach.

Subject: RE: Duos at folk clubs
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 13 Oct 14 - 08:14 AM

Our later session is very open and as long as no-one takes it to excess there's room for plenty of spots. The earlier session is a singaround where you have turns. If you are accompanying someone then it wouldn't be regarded as your turn used up.

Subject: RE: Duos at folk clubs
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Oct 14 - 08:45 AM

Each put yourself up for a solo spot, then when you take your turn,
announce a special 'surprise guest' joining you on stage for one song.....

Subject: RE: Duos at folk clubs
From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link
Date: 13 Oct 14 - 08:53 AM

the singarounds that I attend often have anyone joining in, unless the turnee [ must have coined a new word !] wants it otherwise. therefore ,any muso gets their own turn, voice or solo.
when it comes to open mics though, unless a duo is pushy, and the organizer accommodates, it usually something like 3 songs each however many in the act.

Subject: RE: Duos at folk clubs
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Oct 14 - 09:29 AM

Our club announced to visiting floorspots that you could not perform alone, it had to be a duo, trio or band.

Subject: RE: Duos at folk clubs
From: GUEST,Peter
Date: 13 Oct 14 - 09:42 AM

"Our club announced to visiting floorspots that you could not perform alone, it had to be a duo, trio or band. "
Had an unwanted solo performer turned up perhaps?

Subject: RE: Duos at folk clubs
From: PHJim
Date: 13 Oct 14 - 10:53 AM

"Our club announced to visiting floor spots that you could not perform alone, it had to be a duo, trio or band. "

This seems like a strange ruling, especially in a folk club. Were any reasons given?

Subject: RE: Duos at folk clubs
From: Joe Nicholson
Date: 13 Oct 14 - 11:04 AM

Moand I run Singerounds all over the place and we always say two's do two.

Joe N

Subject: RE: Duos at folk clubs
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 13 Oct 14 - 11:06 AM

When I used to run singarounds at various festivals going way back I always tried to make it fair by giving a duo 2 songs, trio 3 etc., but this is not always clearcut. If someone is just providing a bit of accompaniment I wouldn't normally count this as a duo. If you know them and they regularly play together then I would give them 2, or if it's 2 singers then definitely 2. It gets complicated when everybody knows and performs with everybody else in various combinations. Then you've got to get your calculator out.

Subject: RE: Duos at folk clubs
From: Joe Nicholson
Date: 13 Oct 14 - 11:07 AM

That should have read Mo and I and Singarounds

Joe N

Subject: RE: Duos at folk clubs
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 13 Oct 14 - 11:35 AM

THe problem I've encountered is that some folks are mikw hogs---a trio will permorm as a trio for one slot, and then each member will demand a solo spot (frequently using one or two others as "back-up"

Subject: RE: Duos at folk clubs
From: Paul Davenport
Date: 13 Oct 14 - 11:51 AM

If Liz and I are in a sing around we decide whether to do solos or a duo piece. If we do solos then basically we'd expect a song each but if we elect to do a song together we'd only expect to do one song since we'd both have performed once. Surely a duo shouldn't do more than individual people. What if Bellowhead turned up on spec?

Subject: RE: Duos at folk clubs
From: rosma
Date: 13 Oct 14 - 12:02 PM

Obviously it depends on the person MCing but if I were doing so (which I don't) it would probably depend on how many people were vying to perform. If I was going to struggle to get everyone in then a duo might get one song or tune, with the possibility of being brought back at the end of the evening if there's a gap.

On the other hand where I spend my folk time we are pleased for all comers and even on relatively busy nights every person is asked to perform... if he wants to include someone else in his performance that's up to him. Generally if A accompanies B then A will be expected to lead the second song/tune but if B is the singer and not A then no one's going to complain if B sings twice.

Subject: RE: Duos at folk clubs
From: Acorn4
Date: 13 Oct 14 - 12:25 PM

Normally duos two, but not extended to trios three, otherwise where does it end? What happens if the 52 piece male voice choir turns up.

Sometimes if it's getting late and time running out, duos can just do one in that round.

Agree with the point about open mikes - went to one a while back where these two blokes were hardly off stage all even.ing

Subject: RE: Duos at folk clubs
From: GUEST,FloraG
Date: 13 Oct 14 - 03:53 PM

In the past its been 2 things from each person - as a duo we do one each -1/2 as much as anyone else - but thats OK as I think what we do together is usually better than solo. Its usually joiny iny things we do unless its a special occasion. eg When Dave Brubeck died I played some Take 5. Its only if its one spot each that a problem arises. Who gets to have the spot?
PS - I would so love Bellowhead to arrive. I would gladly listen to each of them in turn as he seems to attract some good musoes. I'm not so sure about a male voice choir, in that they are not always solo singers - just make a wonderful sound together. I might give them 52 spots together.
FloraG.

Subject: RE: Duos at folk clubs
From: GUEST,RB-1
Date: 13 Oct 14 - 07:13 PM

Usually, they'd let us close off the night with 5 or 6 songs.

Subject: RE: Duos at folk clubs
From: Phil Cooper
Date: 13 Oct 14 - 11:56 PM

At the song circle I attended each person was counted as an individual. Therefore, if you were in a duo each would get a turn as the circle went around. At a festival workshop sometimes the duo would count as one turn because each entity was booked for the workshop. Sometimes we would ask, but it seemed fair.

Subject: RE: Duos at folk clubs
From: GUEST,Jim Knowledge
Date: 14 Oct 14 - 07:22 AM

I `ad that Mo and Joe in my cab the other day and the were arguing about what should `appen when duo`s and trio`s are at their singarounds.
Mo said, " `ere Jim, you and your band `ave been booked in all the clubs around. What`s your take on the question?"
I said, "Well Mo, I really can`t say what`s right or wrong but we did see a very funny thing when we did that club over near Dulwich."
She said, "Go on then. Do tell"
I said, "This duo turned up for a floor spot and the M.C. asked them to do two numbers. They said they only knew one song so the M.C said "O.K. Do it twice then!!""


Whaddam I Like??

Subject: RE: Duos at folk clubs
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 14 Oct 14 - 07:38 AM

Phew! I thought Joe and Mo had started sewing circles

Subject: RE: Duos at folk clubs
From: melodeonboy
Date: 14 Oct 14 - 08:09 AM

Good one, Jim! :-)

Subject: RE: Duos at folk clubs
From: Girl Friday
Date: 14 Oct 14 - 09:41 AM

Singarounds do vary a lot in the way they handle duos. At ours, there is no set rule about it. We chose to do one at our evenings so that everyone gets a fair go. If they want two individual gos,, that is fine. I have rarely encountered a duo doing two, but would not object. I do agree with Paul Davenport when he asks what would happen if Bellowhead turned up. I have witnessed something similar at our local folk camp. At this, there is a large circle of players around a camp fire. It can take an hour to get round under normal circumstances, but on this occasion a band of at least six were there, and got one song per person. That was wrong !

Subject: RE: Duos at folk clubs
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Oct 14 - 12:38 PM

Let me confirm that I am not RB1.

If RC4 are all present we probably would not take 4 goes even if offered. We might take 3 with a different singer leading each. The drummer gets left out!

If it's RC2 (Royston and me) we, if offered the chance, will usually each lead one, until his fingers or repertoire give out.

At Tenters this year it was Rachel and me (hmm, does that make us "Roger the" or "the Chorister", or "0.571RC4"?) we were mostly offered one each and each accompanied the other.

I've never seen a band of 5 or more wanting a whole song each - and I thought I went to the same "local folk camp" mentioned above. Perhaps Sue was hearing double that night.

Subject: RE: Duos at folk clubs
From: GUEST,Desi C
Date: 14 Oct 14 - 01:48 PM

Very unfairly in my opinion manmy give each person in the duo 2 numbers EACH (where two is the norm of course. I mean why can't I as a splo performer get 4 songs a night? That's in effect you're saying you're entitled to!

Subject: RE: Duos at folk clubs
From: GUEST,#
Date: 14 Oct 14 - 02:16 PM

I saw an open mike go into the toilet because of just that. Scenario was this: three groups (trio, trio and quintet) would sign up as would a few of the lead singers. The three trios and their performers would manage to take the whole open mike part of the evening. Was a real pain in the ass and eventually people tired of it and ceased coming. The club is still trying to rebuild a year later.

Subject: RE: Duos at folk clubs
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 14 Oct 14 - 04:57 PM

GF,
I cannot follow your logic. If this band of 6 or more consisted of individual performers as most bands do they have a perfect right to have a song each. Anything else would be ludicrous!!!

Subject: RE: Duos at folk clubs
From: GUEST,Roger Knowles
Date: 14 Oct 14 - 06:26 PM

Duos should get two,or even three, according to the emcee on that particular evening.Unless, of course,they are reading the lyrics from songsheets or tablets.
If that's case they should go home, and learn the song, and return when they are competentent to perform it in public.
Most duos are just fine, love 'em.
Trios can have at least three, according to performance ability, I was emceeing at Bedale folk club recently and we had a great quartet, super singing, unaccompanied 16th century songs & harmonies, what pleasure!!!
My opinion......

Subject: RE: Duos at folk clubs
From: GUEST,Desi C
Date: 15 Oct 14 - 05:39 AM

Re Steve Gardham
I'm not talking abpout individuals who occasionally form a duo or more. But Duo's or groups who are known as Duo's or groups should, where the format is i.e two (or more) numbers should not then be given extra spots as individuals. I occasionally form a duo for the odd son, but I do not then expect a sdeperate full spot on top of that. As others here have said, such a format as you describe simply ruins open mic clubs, fairness is the key

Subject: RE: Duos at folk clubs
From: Joe Nicholson
Date: 15 Oct 14 - 10:13 AM

Although my earlier post refered to duo's what I have done in the past here a group or a ,band came along rather than give them a specific number of songs I have given them some time, Maybe twenty minutes at the start of the second half that way the can set them selves up during the interval and how many songs they do or the length of those songs is for them to decide to do within the time alloted.

Joe Nicholson

Subject: RE: Duos at folk clubs
From: Girl Friday
Date: 15 Oct 14 - 10:41 AM

To RB (not 1 ) I can't remember the year, but it was very dark, and the fire was smoking something awful. Across the other side from me was JB whom I was wanting to hear (naturally). There was definitely a band sitting to his right, and members took turns to lead, but the band joined in everything. After 2 songs I was expecting to hear John. Then after 3 songs, and on they went for two or 3 more. I have a memory for these things, if nothing else.

Subject: RE: Duos at folk clubs
From: Girl Friday
Date: 15 Oct 14 - 10:44 AM

And to Steve G. I am sorry you cannot follow my logic, but when you have over 50 individuals all wanting a turn - is it fair to hog the time ? Put yourself in that situation please.

Subject: RE: Duos at folk clubs
From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link
Date: 15 Oct 14 - 12:14 PM

I would suppose that if 5 or 6 performers turn up presenting as individuals, it would seem only fair they each got their turn, even if the others were backing [ assuming that others joining in was the accustomed practise ] , but not as a band ,plus individually as well.
I remember a band asking for that at an open mic, and the mc quite definitely telling them, that that is not the way it works....not that open mic mc's always share it out equally anyway !.

Subject: RE: Duos at folk clubs
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 15 Oct 14 - 05:07 PM

Desi and others, I completely agree that a group having sung individually should not then expect to perform as a group as well. That would obviously be unfair, but GF, I don't care if there are 500 waiting to sing if these people want to sing individually and it's their turn the FAIR practice is to allow that.

I've been running singarounds and MCing concerts (and performing) at festivals for nearly 50 years and I've always tried very hard to be as fair as possible.

Subject: RE: Duos at folk clubs
From: GUEST,FloraG
Date: 16 Oct 14 - 03:43 AM

Thanks all for your comments and keeping away from some of the silly back biting I have read on other threads.
My own view is that if 50 male voicers turn up then 50 spots it is, but because I think in most cases combinations are more interesting than solo performers then I would hope that they would do some songs together within the 50. I also like the idea of giving them a time spot if the situation is appropriate.

I think with the one go each rule it is not really worth my while turning up just to accompany someone else, unless there is really nothing else to do that night. They are nice people, and the raffle is good.   
Signing off now as we are booked elswhere this weekend.
FloraG

Subject: RE: Duos at folk clubs
From: Girl Friday
Date: 16 Oct 14 - 09:08 AM

You have misinterpreted what I said... and turned it round to the thought that 50 extra people turn up as one. That was NOT the point I was making. The 50 individuals are just that.. not band members.

Subject: RE: Duos at folk clubs
From: GUEST,Edward
Date: 16 Oct 14 - 09:58 AM

The band that GF is referring to is Pete The Hat's friends Unity & Division and only 2 of them go to the camp - BUT they have some friends down as well and they like to join in. The MC must take control if he/she thinks unfair hogging is occurring. I've had some people who tried what I call the "Stacking" technique at my club. What will happen is two will turn up and ask for a spot at 9pm then somebody else will turn up and ask for a spot at 9.10pm then another couple will turn up and ask for a spot at 9.20. At 9pm the first couple take the stage and then invite the other 3 to join them and before you can say Jack Robinson you end up with a 5 piece jazz band that nobody else will book playing a 30min+ set. Luckily I knew the local jazz scene and sussed them out gave all five one 15 minute slot.

Subject: RE: Duos at folk clubs
From: GUEST,Desi C
Date: 16 Oct 14 - 10:42 AM

RE Girl Friday
Glad you explained that, obviously at Open Mic/Singers nights all who turn up deserve at least one spot, BUT re the mythical 50 individuals you'd have to set a limit of just one song each, and even then the max I've ever seen do a spot was 27 which was much more quantity than quality! But it's rare to get over double figures on a regular basis.


However I really don't get this giving each member of a group as many individual spots as well. For instance I've been to multi guest gigs where groups and solo artists appear. i.e one time I saw a six piece group do 45 mins followed by a solo artist do 45 minutes. On the above basis the 6 members of the group should then come back out and do 45 minutes each right? Crazy!

Subject: RE: Duos at folk clubs
From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link
Date: 16 Oct 14 - 11:35 AM

if playing along with the singer is acceptable in your club, flora, it does seem odd that you were not allowed to either sing yourself, or play a tune. if on the other hand, the singer gets a double go, I can understand that the mc might consider it unfair to the other performers, especially if at a venue with a 11 pm non negotiable finish. I guess only you can decide if it is worth going or not. I think that sometimes an event that mainly consists of players/singers can be a victim of its own success, as it might not be considered attending if you don't get opportunity to play much.
if you were able to get to footscray,[ presumably out of your area ?] any muso joins in with any song, providing no one asked they don't play along with them.

Subject: RE: Duos at folk clubs
From: PHJim
Date: 17 Oct 14 - 02:36 AM

I was an instrumentalist long before I ever started singing (in public). At our local folk club I would sometimes play an instrumental for my turn and the next performer might say, "I'd like Jim to stay up here to help me out with my song." In that case, I didn't feel guilty about taking an extra turn.
There are some fiddle tunes that have a verse or two, but for the most part are instrumental tunes. In this case, it would be considered the instrumentalist's turn, not the vocalist.

Subject: RE: Duos at folk clubs
From: Shimbo Darktree
Date: 17 Oct 14 - 07:00 PM

This is fascinating ... a whole new world. We do not get the same number of performers as you do in the UK, it seems ("we" is Brisbane, Australia), and the clubs here to not follow a standard pattern with each other. Our club runs a floor singers situation, controlled by an MC (some nights have invited guests). Each spot gets 20 minutes, or 15 on a busy night. We get anywhere from six to twelve acts wishing to perform, and combinations (duos, groups, Mormon Tabernacle Choir) are treated as one act. And it works as well as anything ever does - most seem satisfied, but there is always one who isn't. Not me, of course ... I'm easy ... just not cheap!

To clarify - no, the Mormon Tabernacle Choir have not yet performed - it was merely an example.

Shimbo

Subject: RE: Duos at folk clubs
From: GUEST,Desi C
Date: 18 Oct 14 - 02:04 AM

Having run a successful Folk Club, I never had any situation where someone like Flora was not allowed a spot of her own just because she backed someone on their turn. In fact that was a fairly occasional occurance. If we take two numbers as standard then if you wish to invite someone up to accompany you on your spot hey that's fine. And would be perfectly happy with them sill having their own spot. I did once encounter a situationn where an instrumentalist took advantage of the situation and started popping up 4 or 5 times in the evening to back various others. But a quiet word soon put a stop to that. The protocol at Singers nights/open Mic nights is fairly straight forward, a half decent MC will try to ensure each performer get's an equal share as time allows, and performers in turn should respect that by i.e try to keep a two song spot to around 8-10 minutes, If you must do one very long song ( I had once chap do 26 verses once!) then make the next a quick one, try to be tuned up before you get up, 10 mins allows time to have some chat but please no speeches! And just enjoy yourself