BS: WMD in Iraq- They were found!

Subject: BS: WMD in Iraq- They were found!
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Oct 14 - 02:46 PM

"'Nothing of significance' is what I was ordered to say," Jarrod Lampier, a retired Army major, said of the 2006 discovery of 2,400 nerve-agent rockets at a former Republican Guard compound, the largest chemical weapons discovery of the war.


http://news.yahoo.com/chemical-weapons-found-in-iraq-nyt-report-135347507.html

beardedbruce

Subject: RE: BS: WMD in Iraq- They were found!
From: meself
Date: 17 Oct 14 - 02:49 PM

Yes - or is this what he is being ordered to say now?

Subject: RE: BS: WMD in Iraq- They were found!
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Oct 14 - 02:54 PM

See "Chemical Weapons" thread also posted by "Guest" BullshitBruce.

Read the article referenced, and it will become readily apparent that this is only more horsehsit from Bullshit.

As is to be expected.

Subject: RE: BS: WMD in Iraq- They were found!
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Oct 14 - 02:56 PM

PS: ya think maybe this is Bruce himself trying to sneak in anonymously[sic] because his other nonsense thread was closed?

{It is}

Subject: RE: BS: WMD in Iraq- They were found!
From: Ed T
Date: 17 Oct 14 - 03:28 PM

Could guest, he/she be a defected Iraq agent? Maybe juniour Bush, Blokie Blair, or oily Chaney?

Or, more likely just one of the increasing number of nameless non-member guests putting up rogue threads.

Subject: RE: BS: WMD in Iraq- They were found!
From: Mrrzy
Date: 17 Oct 14 - 03:34 PM

Just to discuss the actual issue, here is the actual Times article to which the yahoo one, above, refers.

Scary stuff.

Subject: RE: BS: WMD in Iraq- They were found!
From: Jeri
Date: 17 Oct 14 - 04:36 PM

They had the agents. We knew they had chemical weapons--this is nothing new. They had chem weapons & possibly bio weapons during the first gulf war. We just didn't find the stockpiles of chemical or biological weapons and methods for their deployment that was used to justify starting a war there. It looks like it might have been Bush/Rove who suppressed the reporting of injuries people suffered from the chem agents that were there.

Subject: RE: BS: WMD in Iraq- They were found!
From: Ed T
Date: 17 Oct 14 - 04:42 PM

No surprise, but not WMDs as defined by those promoting the war - merely ask the Kurds if Iraq had nerve gas.

Subject: RE: BS: WMD in Iraq- They were found!
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Oct 14 - 06:08 PM

It looks like it might have been Bush/Rove who suppressed the reporting of injuries

MIGHT? Ya think???

But they certainly weren't the WMD's that Cheney-Bush were bullshitting about, but material the U.S had previously provided.

Subject: RE: BS: WMD in Iraq- They were found!
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 18 Oct 14 - 12:54 AM

Any surprise??...Several YEARS ago I posted, "We knew they had WMD's...we have the receipts!"..........

......We just left them there for posterity.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: WMD in Iraq- They were found!
From: Stu
Date: 18 Oct 14 - 08:16 AM

All of those munitions were pre Gulf War I and unusable.

Subject: RE: BS: WMD in Iraq- They were found!
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 18 Oct 14 - 09:24 AM

Oh yeah you're way ahead of everyone, goofus. We knew that Chemical Ali, Saddam's cousin and Iraqi Defense Minister, used chemical weapons on the Kurds long before Bush 2 invaded. Your "news flash" was about two decades after the fact.

Subject: RE: BS: WMD in Iraq- They were found!
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 19 Oct 14 - 12:08 PM

But your 'news' flash isn't quite current....They've just 'discovered' another stockpile of stuff the U.S. 'left behind'..or 'overlooked'(?), that they are now 'worried' will fall into the 'wrong hands'...if we can believe that that was 'unintentional'......or IF you believe the 'news'.

Keep up.


GfS

Subject: RE: BS: WMD in Iraq- They were found!
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 19 Oct 14 - 12:22 PM

That was your news flash, bonehead.

Subject: RE: BS: WMD in Iraq- They were found!
From: Bill D
Date: 19 Oct 14 - 12:34 PM

See how easy it is to drop a bit of 'fact' into a discussion, phrased in such a way as to tilt the truth way to one side?

Wanta read some details? seems the 'discovery' was highly overblown

And **Bush** kept it quiet because those nasty 'stockpiles' were not exactly what he sold a war on!

Subject: RE: BS: WMD in Iraq- They were found!
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 19 Oct 14 - 01:29 PM

Bill D: "And **Bush** kept it quiet because those nasty 'stockpiles' were not exactly what he sold a war on!"

Actually, you must have been sleeping for the last 13-15 years...WMD's is EXACTLY what he sold us the war on...did you miss Colin Powell's address to the U.N., BEFORE we invaded???..BTW, I was NOT in favor of Bush's 'war', nor his lying rationalizations before the world, to justify his political agenda....you know...'political agendas'...just like the 'other side' has, to promote the rest of the bullshit, while condemning the 'other side'...but that is only for public consumption.
In the real world, behind the masks and charades, they are both owned and controlled by the same people...with THEIR agendas.

Do your homework!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: WMD in Iraq- They were found!
From: Teribus
Date: 20 Oct 14 - 03:07 AM

"They had chem weapons & possibly bio weapons during the first gulf war. We just didn't find the stockpiles of chemical or biological weapons and methods for their deployment that was used to justify starting a war there."

Sorry Jeri but the justification for resumption of hostilities was Saddam Hussein and Iraq's failure to comply with what they had agreed to do at Safwan in March 1991. There was no one single issue that was used to "start a war" there were in fact 32 of them, one of which was impossible for Saddam to comply with - that related to repatriation of the 605 Kuwaiti nationals that he abducted and carried off to prison in Iraq in 1990 - It was impossible for Saddam to repatriate 602 of the 605 because he had had them murdered.

UNSCR 687

The incorrect belief by the bulk of those jabbering on about WMD on this forum stems from extremely poor reporting of facts by MSM, who never once failed to leap upon every opportunity to misreport what was in fact actually being said, particularly so in the UK - the 45 minute claim being the best example.

Subject: RE: BS: WMD in Iraq- They were found!
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 20 Oct 14 - 03:30 AM

Layers upon layers of 'new inside' info...but that's only to steer the public from knowing what was REALLY going on...and to the 'who's, why's and how' we ended up invading Iraq.....even now, the charade doesn't match the rhetoric....ever notice that?

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: WMD in Iraq- They were found!
From: Musket
Date: 20 Oct 14 - 05:17 AM

Never let the truth get in the way of a good story eh?

Subject: RE: BS: WMD in Iraq- They were found!
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Oct 14 - 11:03 AM

".WMD's is EXACTLY what he sold us the war on."

You do miss the point... he sold it on the idea of good, useful, current WMDs, not buried, rusted old crap. If he had said "There's a bunch of old chemical projectiles, some of which WE made, buried around in places." what would have been the result?

I sleep at times, but when I'm awake I read carefully.

Subject: RE: BS: WMD in Iraq- They were found!
From: Ed T
Date: 20 Oct 14 - 04:07 PM

After years of helping to prop him up, secret USA and UK intelligence reports surprisingly revealed that Saddam Hussein was really trying to be a bad guy.

Subject: RE: BS: WMD in Iraq- They were found!
From: Teribus
Date: 21 Oct 14 - 02:42 AM

1: "WMD's is EXACTLY what he sold us the war on."

Not exactly true that is it? What "he sold" the war on, or at least the need for intervention, was to enforce the requirements of UNSCR 687 on Iraq in order that the regime in power in Iraq could not at some point in the future (Post-911) supply any international terrorist organisation with WMD, or WMD materials or knowledge, which would enable that terrorist organisation to strike at the USA.

The then President of the United States did not come to this entirely on his own - the above represented what at the time was perceived to be the "Greatest threat" by two bodies who came to exactly the same conclusion (Body 1 being: All 19 US intelligence and security agencies - Body 2 being: Joint House Security Committee)

Unlike Clinton who just lashed out with cruise missiles without referring the matter to anyone, GWB went first to the UN telling them in language as plain as a pikestaff that the US considered enforcement of UNSCR 687 by the UN to be a priority and a matter of concern and that if the UN did not act, then the USA would - and that is exactly what happened AFTER he had gone to Congress for approval.

2: "You do miss the point... he sold it on the idea of good, useful, current WMDs, not buried, rusted old crap. If he had said "There's a bunch of old chemical projectiles, some of which WE made, buried around in places." what would have been the result?"

I think that you miss the point - read through UNSCR 687 and then tell us all where in that document the age of anything is detailed - On the other hand please don't bother because for anyone who does read carefully the answer is that it doesn't - UNSCR 687 required that Iraq completely divest itself of all WMD, WMD research programmes, WMD weaponisation programmes and WMD delivery systems Period And by 2002 over 11 years after having agreed to disarm Iraq had still not done that in the controlled and verifiable manner required by the UN (FACT).

Care to tell us about which of those old chemical projectiles that "WE made"?? To my certain knowledge the UK has "made" no chemical projectiles or weaponised chemical agents since 1956, the US since ~mid-sixties. On this point I have previously asked any former service personnel (from any branch of the US armed forces) who are members of this forum to come forward if they ever saw, handled or were trained in the loading, arming or use of any chemical weapons (To the pedants Agent Orange, Napalm & White Phosphorus smoke shells do not classify as chemical weapons) - So far not one single person has come forward to refute my statements - So basically Bill D when it comes to chemical projectiles and weaponised chemical agents WE (NATO) made sod all (NATO response to Soviet and Warsaw Pact chemical weapons was clearly stated in the 1960s - you use chemical weapons we instantly respond with tactical nuclear - Saddam was told that by the Soviets in 1990, and that is why he did not use his chemical weapons against coalition forces in 1991 when he most certainly did have them.)

Subject: RE: BS: WMD in Iraq- They were found!
From: Ed T
Date: 21 Oct 14 - 03:29 AM

An interesting perspective in the New Republic:

""The debate over the legitimacy of the Iraq War was never about whether or not Saddam Hussein possessed weapons of mass destruction at some point in history. It is well known that Saddam Hussein used a variety of chemical weapons against Iran during the Iran-Iraq War of the 1980s—and the U.S., eager to see the destruction of the nascent Islamic Republic of Iran, aided him in creating the program. ""




New Republic 

Subject: RE: BS: WMD in Iraq- They were found!
From: Teribus
Date: 21 Oct 14 - 05:14 AM

Ed T having read the link you provided I find the entire piece incredible. But taking the section of it that you lifted:

"The debate over the legitimacy of the Iraq War was never about whether or not Saddam Hussein possessed weapons of mass destruction at some point in history. It is well known that Saddam Hussein used a variety of chemical weapons against Iran during the Iran-Iraq War of the 1980s—and the U.S., eager to see the destruction of the nascent Islamic Republic of Iran, aided him in creating the program."

1: The whole reason for intervention was to reach a state where it could be verified beyond doubt that Iraq was free from WMD, and that they were no longer actively seeking to develop such weapons or the delivery systems required to use them. But WMD only related to some of the 32 points detailed in UNSCR 687.

2: "and the U.S., eager to see the destruction of the nascent Islamic Republic of Iran, aided him {Saddam Hussein} in creating the {WMD} program."

Nothing could have further from the truth, as records show - please don't witter on about dual use items - truth is:

NO chemical weapons were supplied to Iraq by the USA, in fact no weapons of any kind were supplied to the Iraqi regime during the Iran/Iraq War - the USA however WAS instrumental in supplying the Iranians in the early years of the war (They kept the Iranian Air Force flying);

The USA and the rest of the world wanted the Iran/Iraq War to end in a stalemate that maintained the "status quo ante bellum";

If what was said in the article was true then the USA reacted awfully late to help Saddam (War started in 1980 and ended in 1988 - USA didn't come into the picture vis-a-vis Iraq until late 1984).

Subject: RE: BS: WMD in Iraq- They were found!
From: Ed T
Date: 21 Oct 14 - 05:25 AM

Interesting pieces of information:

UK role in Iraq s CW production facilities:

The UK and Iraq's Falluja 2 chlorine plant,  

CIA report on Iraqs CW program, 2004:

 Iraq's Chemical Warfare Program 

Subject: RE: BS: WMD in Iraq- They were found!
From: Ed T
Date: 21 Oct 14 - 05:32 AM

No wittering on my part- from your comment, it looks like you are attempting to "take someone on" on your views, versus have a respectful discussion ,Terribus.

If so, you can argue with yourself, and "have your way"
;)

Subject: RE: BS: WMD in Iraq- They were found!
From: Teribus
Date: 21 Oct 14 - 06:58 AM

From Ed T's link "The UK and Iraq's Falluja 2 chlorine plant"

"Uhde Ltd's parent company in Dortmund, Germany, issued a statement confirming that their then UK subsidiary had built Falluja 2 for Iraq's chemical weapons procurement agency, the State Enterprise for Pesticide Production. A company spokesman said: "This was a normal plant for the production of chlorine and caustic soda. It could not produce other products".

So what part did the UK/Germany/the USA play in Iraq's CW production facilities?

The second link basically supports everything I have said and makes the rather obvious point that once invented you cannot "uninvent the science" - i.e. Iraq could reacquire and reactivate its WMD, WMD research and WMD delivery systems programmes at any time it wished to do so.

Subject: RE: BS: WMD in Iraq- They were found!
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 22 Oct 14 - 06:17 AM

Teribus: Hi...OK..you do have some things right...but during that same time period, this was going on...(probably to counter the deal, and help the Iraqis...while making a healthy profit.
There ARE some NOTABLE passages in this worth noting...and a rather fascinating read....though I first heard about all this stuff from Daniel Sheehan...who was a lawyer, suing the Federal Government, over this, using the RICO statutes, which expand the scope to 'all those involved, and whatever 'links' they had..to whomever.....and if you dig into some of these people, you'll blow your mind!!!


..not WMD's,,,but note the level of deception...and the 'players'

Happy reading...even happier researching!!

GfS

P.S. REGARDS!!!

Subject: RE: BS: WMD in Iraq- They were found!
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 22 Oct 14 - 06:36 AM

Teribus,...(and anyone interested)....

Ohhh......and it goes hand in hand with this one......another mind blow!! .....and if the block-headed wannabe, 'so-called liberals' would get their heads out, from sight-seeing their colons, and IF Obama would just level with everyone, and his 'so-called liberal' base supporters, would not base their criticism, at those who are 'disappointed' with him, with 'just being about race', well then, we might just get somewhere!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: WMD in Iraq- They were found!
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 22 Oct 14 - 10:41 AM

Goofus, ain't it funny how every argument you make eventually comes around to the same conclusion: "It's Obama and the 'so called liberals'."

You need to demonstrate more objectivity if you ever want to be taken seriously. As it stands you just sound like another ditto head in a Rush Room.

Subject: RE: BS: WMD in Iraq- They were found!
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 22 Oct 14 - 04:59 PM

Well your response is somewhat the usual answer from a 'so-called liberal.....and as usual, you didn't say anything.

I'm not blaming Obama, on this one...in fact, I'm not sure that he is doing the wrong thing....EXCEPT leveling with the people who put him in office..or who are trusting him to do the 'right thing'.....it's the 'so-called(phony) liberals' who blindly defend him, without holding him up to DO the right thing...and to reveal the real story behind the fabricated one, that only plays to his 'so-called liberal' base..just for politics sake!....and you're one of them!!
Do some homework, and you will find that the corruption runs through both parties, serving the same 'special interests'...who's 'interests' are NOT that, of the people!!....(as the first link pointed out..AND, saying the same thing I've been saying for over six years, here on Mudcat.
Now they tell us that the two 'likely' candidates for president in 2016 will probably be Hilary 'Mena' Clinton, and Jeb, 'drug-runner pilot' Bush....who used to fly into Mena loaded with coke from Central America....what is it that you just don't get???????? ...and then you'll get all wrapped up in the campaign fervor...when it's all bullshit!
You need to ask deeper questions....and when you get the real answers, you might even be able to drop the 'so-called' part, of being a liberal!!!...because as it stands now, you, and a lot of your ilk, are lost in the fog of political rhetoric...thinking that your zeal equates to anything that they are concerned with!!!

Got a sensible reply??......Teribus is at least dealing with historical facts, while the 'so-called' crowd are only dealing with histrionic farces!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: WMD in Iraq- They were found!
From: GUEST,Sighhhhh
Date: 22 Oct 14 - 07:24 PM

GfS loves loves loves to say "it's both parties", but it always goes like this:

"Whatever is wrong, it's Oblabbos (sic) fault... whatever Oblabbo did is horrible... and "so-called-liberals" just blindly support him... Oh, but it's both parties..."

You fool nobody buttcherself pal.
And you can save yourself the time and hassle of ever composing a post again.
Just copy and paste the above.

Subject: RE: BS: WMD in Iraq- They were found!
From: GUEST,Cthulhu
Date: 22 Oct 14 - 08:19 PM

It takes no intelligence or knowledge of the ins and outs of politics to be against everything. Or to build a straw man like GfS has done with his "so-called liberal" so he can keep knocking it down. Any moron can do that==and many morons do.

But what is he for? And why?

He never says. Could it be that he doesn't know enough to be for anything? Or is he hiding something?

Subject: RE: BS: WMD in Iraq- They were found!
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 22 Oct 14 - 10:57 PM

....and if you like your health plan you can keep it, and you can keep your doctor.. as long as you're doing those shovel-ready jobs!

I guess we'll all have to wait for Teribus, to post an intelligent post...unlike these prior two!
(Me thinks 'intelligence' in not their forte!).

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: WMD in Iraq- They were found!
From: GUEST,Cthulhu
Date: 22 Oct 14 - 11:25 PM

That's the best that it can come up with. A vast field of nothing.

Or should that be "half-vast?"