BS: Automatic Auto. transmissions

Subject: BS: Automatic Auto. transmissions
From: Ed T
Date: 31 Oct 14 - 02:54 PM

Back in tge 60s -70s, the automobile companies pretty much perfected the automatic transmission. In more recent years, this perfection has eroded, with many early break-down of these transmission by most of current day manufacturers.

There have been serious issues (that I know of) with Honda Civics, Toyota Matrix and Rav4s, and GM and Crysler products (Caravan) -to mention a few, that has cost consumers big bucks. Those lucky enough, got the defects fixed under warranty (or, on occasion, recalls) ) So, what happened? Why have we gone backwards?

I asked a tranny repair guy that I know this same question. He agreed that there are big issues with many brands that keeps him busy. He indicated part if the problem relates to new designs to increase fuel efficiency. Flaws in materials (sometimes one small plastic component) came in second. Third seems to be poor design and workmanship. A fourth, is failure to maintain the tranny, such as changing fluids and filters, and using incorrect fluids for the vehicle. He indicated few brands escape the breakdowns, and some newer vehicles have as many issues as late model ones. He added that air conditioning break down (such as compressors) can be added to the list-though a bit cheaper to repair.

What has been your experience?

Subject: RE: BS: Automatic Auto. transmissions
From: pdq
Date: 31 Oct 14 - 03:01 PM

Some reason are:

       front wheel drive vehicles

       computer-controlled transmissions

       overdrive

       light weight transmissons for light weight models

Subject: RE: BS: Automatic Auto. transmissions
From: Charmion
Date: 31 Oct 14 - 03:12 PM

An automatic transmission is an expensive piece of equipment that breaks, unlike the typical Volkswagen manual gearbox.

That said, I agree with pdq, especially his fourth point: light-weight construction.

Subject: RE: BS: Automatic Auto. transmissions
From: GUEST,#
Date: 31 Oct 14 - 03:13 PM

http://mechanics.stackexchange.com/questions/9037/why-doesnt-anyone-ever-repair-an-automatic-transmission

Subject: RE: BS: Automatic Auto. transmissions
From: GUEST,Joe Offer on the road
Date: 01 Nov 14 - 03:55 AM

Back in the day, automatic transmissions had two speeds. If you drove 70 mph, you could redline your engine (if you had a tachometer). And gas mileage at highway speed was terrible. Now, six-speed transmissions are common. I've had no problem getting 150000 miles on Hondas with no repairs beyond scheduled maintenance.

Subject: RE: BS: Automatic Auto. transmissions
From: Musket
Date: 01 Nov 14 - 05:30 AM

Automatic gearboxes were a niche market this side of the pond up till recently. It seems that the newer designs such as CVT and double clutch are making them efficient as well as easy to drive. Fuel has always been more expensive here and the torque converter boxes aren't efficient at all.

I have driven autos for years due to a back injury and have seen them improve no end. The eight speed box in my BMW is excellent and seamless whilst the sports auto box in Mrs Musket's Mercedes hunts more and isn't quite up there yet.

Reliability hasn't been an issue in general for many brands. In fact reviews tend to say modern auto boxes are long term more reliable than clutches and gearboxes. Interesting to read a different story over your side.

(When I am in The USA, I try to rent German. The build quality of many US cars is a constant source of amusement in motoring media.)

Subject: RE: BS: Automatic Auto. transmissions
From: Ed T
Date: 01 Nov 14 - 07:39 AM

My observation is many of the "so-called" auto reviews tend to be more "marketing tools" than reliable information. I put more faith in consumer (actual user) experience reviews. Before I buy any vehicle, I first check these publications, in addition to doing some google searches for consistant flaws...and, there are "many" noted with some model brands, especially with auto transmissions.

Most major repairs start at 80 to 100km.-if you are in a position to trade frequently, you likely never experience flaws.

My personal observation has been that German built cars dont do well, over the long term, in local conditions, and are much more expensive to repair (after-market parts are hard to come by and dealer parts are very costly in the local market). So, I have learned to avoid them.

My main mechanic once noted:"German cars look fine, and each part is engineered well. The problem is when you put the parts together they dont work as well as marketed, dont last, and are a bitch to repair." Another mechanic-friend who works at Audi, confessed to me that the warranty is great-but tgey are best traded shortly after, as tge repair costs will be very high.

Subject: RE: BS: Automatic Auto. transmissions
From: Janie
Date: 01 Nov 14 - 07:51 AM

In the process of checking to see if there is an airbag recall on my 2006 Honda Accord (purchased by me in 2013) I discovered there is a recall that has not been taken care of for some part in my transmission.

Subject: RE: BS: Automatic Auto. transmissions
From: Ed T
Date: 01 Nov 14 - 07:59 AM

As to sources of information, I frequently ask questions of taxi drivers. These folks put higher than normal miles on vehicles and share information with each other on the best cars to purchase with fewer flaws (broken down cars cuts into taxi driver profits).

When I rent a car locally, I frequently get a drop-off drive home. On most occasions the driver is a service tech. My experience is these folks are often eager to share stories about early vehicle flaws from their shop experience. These firms normally trade them in in the 20k range, and because kms are put on quickly, they often see flaws earlier than those with more moderate driving rates.

Subject: RE: BS: Automatic Auto. transmissions
From: Rumncoke
Date: 01 Nov 14 - 08:00 AM

I drove an Austin 10 when I was about 6 years old, and at 63 I can drive anything up to a fair size tail lift van - but I have never driven anything with an automatic transmission.

Have I been missing something all these years?

Subject: RE: BS: Automatic Auto. transmissions
From: Ed T
Date: 01 Nov 14 - 08:46 AM

"Have I been missing something all these years?"

Well, if you dont live I a large urban area- one with many hills and stop-and-go traffic, you likely missed nothing.

If you do live in one if these locations, and drive lots in traffic peaks, with a manual you probably shifted gears very often and used your emergency brake with your clutch pedal often (if you have such a brake located near your console).

Subject: RE: BS: Automatic Auto. transmissions
From: G-Force
Date: 01 Nov 14 - 08:54 AM

As a caravan-tower, I find a torque converter automatic is by far the best - a manual clutch makes for too much work and is too easy to burn out.

The trouble is, here in the UK, more and more automatics are of the dual clutch variety (e.g. VW group 'DSG' and Ford 'Powershift' boxes). It is hard to find much on line about what it is like towing with one of these - I suspect not great.

After more than 100,000 miles I have just traded in my old Vauxhall Vectra automatic (pretty ghastly car, but excellent for towing) for a Honda CR-V. Time, as they say, will tell.

Subject: RE: BS: Automatic Auto. transmissions
From: Ed T
Date: 01 Nov 14 - 09:14 AM

Few brands escape transmission design issues, including BMW. A google search unearths plenty of information from impacted cosumers and repair folks. As many parts are globally accessed by the big brands, and the same transmission is often used in many models, current global manufacturing approaches can contribute to the scope of design and manufacturing flaws.



BMW 

Subject: RE: BS: Automatic Auto. transmissions
From: gnu
Date: 01 Nov 14 - 09:18 AM

Good advice re talking to taxi drivers and techs, Ed.

Subject: RE: BS: Automatic Auto. transmissions
From: Musket
Date: 01 Nov 14 - 09:57 AM

Certainly the ZF auto box in my last car (Jag) had the "lurch" but it was a torque converter type of the old school. A change of the "never needs changing" oil and a software flash seemed to sort it.

I can't speak for old BMWs as mine is still less than a year old. My eldest has the same box in his 3 series though and about to get rid as he has put 70k miles on it. No problems to report. The very good residual values seem to be a vote of confidence.

I thought an 8 speed box would constantly hunt between gears but it seems to behave. Possibly the best engine / gearbox combination I have ever had. (Up to yet, fingers crossed.)

I have owned most prestige marques now and although I like the Jag XF, it has some of the problems of my old S Type, so my choices are and for the foreseeable future will remain BMW, Mercedes and Audi. The three most reliable types I have owned.

Subject: RE: BS: Automatic Auto. transmissions
From: Ed T
Date: 01 Nov 14 - 10:15 AM

I believe Audi settled with some customers owing certain models because of flaws (some related to defective torque converters). Below are some tips from a NZ transmission specialist:

Audi transmissions 

Subject: RE: BS: Automatic Auto. transmissions
From: Musket
Date: 01 Nov 14 - 11:27 AM

The snag is Ed, when I shell out on a £47k car and Mrs Musket shells out on a £55k one, how far do you think you'll get telling me we made bad decisions?

Anyway, when I was in NZ last, most cars were Japanese ones that were imported once they were too old for Japan. I took a Nissan Cherry with a very screamy three speed auto box from the top of North Island to the bottom of South Island. Cooked it a few times too...

Subject: RE: BS: Automatic Auto. transmissions
From: Ed T
Date: 01 Nov 14 - 11:56 AM

I am hardly telling you that Musket. You can buy what you wish, obviously.I suspect that once you make your mind up on a topic, there is little that would change that position-tnough my viewpoint is solely based on your mudcat postings, nothing else.

However, you make a claim in your first post on the reliability of certain vehicles and automatic transmissions that may impact purchasing decisions of.others. Some folks who, unlike you, may normally purchase a used vehicle (virgin ones have few problems, regardless of cost or brand, as noted). So, it seems responsible to show evidence that transmission problems do exist in current models and across brands-German, North American, Japanese, Korean and the rest. Original cost of the vehicle may be a factor, but surely not a guarantee that flaws do not exist.

I am puzzled why you would fall into a unreasonable conclusion that my comments are "all about you" and the vehicles you and your mate purchases? If they were, I would just pm you to relieve others from unrelated discussion.

Subject: RE: BS: Automatic Auto. transmissions
From: Musket
Date: 01 Nov 14 - 12:20 PM

Not at all.

I mention my cars and you waffle on about German cars. I slip in my past liking for Audis and you provide a link to some subjective Audi bashing.

You see, the snag is... The annual reliability surveys where I am tend to confirm the excellent long term sense of the German marques. A bit depressing given the heritage of a once proud UK car industry but there you go.

My understanding doesn't seem to be similar to yours. Lots of reasons for that. But having noticed you are slagging off cars that are just about as good as they get (include VW for good measure, both Mrs Musket and I have owned them with no issues) and K fail to see how definitive your observations are. I ensured my comments were qualified by pointing out it is mainly new cars I am talking about. You dragged up a website that is supposed to impress?

We can all do that. If I could be arsed I could list ten websites saying x manufacturer is the best and a further ten saying they push rusty junk for a living.

The most reliable older car I ever owned was a ten year old (when bought and kept for three years) Audi. The biggest heap of rusty unreliable dustbin on wheels happened to be a Fiat.

My mate however swears by Fiats.






Although he's a foul mouthed fucker, he swears by most things.

Subject: RE: BS: Automatic Auto. transmissions
From: Ed T
Date: 01 Nov 14 - 12:41 PM

So, put up your so-called information, so it can be assessed, versus defensively "shooting off" off about your preferred German status choice, and how you spend your summer vacation, Musket.

Of course there are differences of opinion and experience, (no revelation there) but there is also broad first-hand experience, versus marketing hype and technical theories as to why stuff should work well, does in the testing rooms- but does not in practice. An elementary google search, and consumer reports provides ample information to indicate automatic transmission flaws exist across all brands, current status models included.

Why not show your technical and so-callecd "objective" stuff, Musket, for consideration -versus "shooting off blanks" at others who contribute material for discussion and consideration?

Subject: RE: BS: Automatic Auto. transmissions
From: Ed T
Date: 01 Nov 14 - 12:52 PM

An unrelated article on the return to SUVs:

SUVs 

Subject: RE: BS: Automatic Auto. transmissions
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Nov 14 - 06:34 PM

I have a 1975 Scimitar GTE, which for those who are unaware, is powered by a Ford V6 3litre Essex engine. The gearbox is a Ford C3 Auto which in 40 years has only failed once. Failure was due I was told at the time to undersize seals fitted when new, so preventing the box changing from 2nd to 3rd. Repaired the box myself and have suffered no further problems. great box, always had a very smooth change. Much smoother incidentally then an almost new Citroen Picasso C4 I test drove a couple of years ago.

Rog

PS. Hope to Christ I havn't put the mockers on it, perhaps I should have kept quiet.

Subject: RE: BS: Automatic Auto. transmissions
From: GUEST,Rog Peek
Date: 01 Nov 14 - 06:36 PM

GUEST was cookieless me!

Rog

Subject: RE: BS: Automatic Auto. transmissions
From: Rumncoke
Date: 01 Nov 14 - 06:55 PM

Yes, I live in an area with lots of hills, lots of traffic - and we regularly drive the twisty windy hilly road to Bristol to see my son and family. The trip takes well over 2 hours to cover the 70 miles, though there is rarely any amount of traffic.

I don't think we have 'emergency brakes' here in the UK - part of our driving test is the emergency stop, footbrake and clutch depressed - but yes, I change gear a lot. It doesn't seem to be any great hardship to do so.

Subject: RE: BS: Automatic Auto. transmissions
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 02 Nov 14 - 02:38 AM

Musket: Certainly the ZF auto box in my last car (Jag) had the "lurch" but it was a torque converter type of the old school. A change of the "never needs changing" oil and a software flash seemed to sort it.

I wonder about the modern move to long-interval servicing and rarely changed lubrication. I buy second-hand cars and drive them until they really are uneconomical. I've had 3 cars in 27 years:

- A petrol peugeot 505 estate that I had for 12 years from a year old, putting on 240,000 miles. Engine was still sweet when I let it go, but it would have needed new fuel lines, brake lines and hydraulics to get through its MOT

- A petrol Volvo V70 estate that I got at 3 years, kept for just over 8, and added 230,000 miles to. Would have kept it longer but parked its engine in the loading bay of a Ford Transit on the M25 during a relapse of a concussion I'd suffered 4 weeks earlier.

- A diesel BMW 525 tourer that I had for 6 years and took to 220,000 miles. Let go last week as it was getting ridiculously expensive to maintain.

Of the 3, all manuals, the BMW was the least reliable. The other two went their entire lives with me on the same clutches and apart from minor niggles nothing broke on them. Parts replaced were all wear and tear. The BMW broke down on me several times due to mechanical failures. At least I got some money back on the AA subscriptions I'd been paying fruitlessly for 20 years with the other two :-)

However, the point isn't to slag off BMWs here (though I did expect rather better reliability) but to say that one reason I think my vehicles last so well is that I have them serviced more frequently than the prescribed intervals and change the lubrication much more often than "recommended". It's certainly not that I drive them sedately. I tend to drive them quite fast, and use the gears a lot when on more curvy country roads. The only time my driving's remotely sedate is when my wife's in the car with me, and even then I get a lot of "comments".

I've only ever driven automatics in the USA, mainly to avoid the mental recalibration of changing gears with the other hand.

Just acquired a diesel VW Passat estate after seeing off the BMW, so we'll se how that goes.

Subject: RE: BS: Automatic Auto. transmissions
From: Musket
Date: 02 Nov 14 - 04:39 AM

Rog. I loved my Scimitar. Even the Transit engine (though I told everybody it came from a Capri.) My nadir moment was when I broke the plastic cover of the seat belt housing and release.

I found a replacement, nay, original... on an Austin Allegro. 😧

Rob. I Haven't owned a manual car since the late '80s as first car (I like restoring old sports cars so I have a few manuals under the belt I suppose) and to be fair, I'm not sure I'd wish to run a German car into the ground. The parts when you do eventually need them can be on average eye watering. If I were running cars of that mileage I'd consider a Mondeo. The village taxi owner has put over 500,000 miles on his and it still feels ok to be in. The parts are cheap as chips and they are generally designed with repairs in mind.

Ed. "Put up your information". What an odd concept? This is a debate not a paper chase to see who can find views of others. Some of us are intelligent enough to put forward our own views. If you want more, search by all means. But I accept your experience if you have any to offer as I expect you to accept mine. Web links to subjective waffle aren't really an answer to anything.

Subject: RE: BS: Automatic Auto. transmissions
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Nov 14 - 05:35 AM

Musket: The essex engine was of course used in a number of cars both Ford and other:
Ford V6 .
In Scimitar circles the Capri and Granada were generally referred to as the Crapi and Grandad.

Rog

Subject: RE: BS: Automatic Auto. transmissions
From: Musket
Date: 02 Nov 14 - 06:12 AM

When Ford dropped it by 200cc, they seemed to have made a good move for their own cars. (Or was it to 2.7l? Memory going.)

I loved my Reliableant. It was biggish on the inside for a sporty car, I bought contradictory parts source books for buying bits, which made for interesting shopping! I loved the friendly arse end too. Always wanting to come out and play.

Happy days. (I had a Capri 3.0 too but don't tell anybody.)

Subject: RE: BS: Automatic Auto. transmissions
From: banjoman
Date: 02 Nov 14 - 06:43 AM

I always decried automatics, having driven everything from a motorbike to a giant mobile crane until a serious back injury led me to Motability and I am now on my 3rd Vauxhall Zafira (Automatic) I have never had problems and have towed a caravan thousands of miles over the years.. I know that Vauxhall seem to get a lot of adverse comments but I have nothing but praise for the Zafira Automatic and look forward to my next one (2016)

Subject: RE: BS: Automatic Auto. transmissions
From: Ed T
Date: 02 Nov 14 - 07:31 AM

""Some of us are intelligent enoughward our own views""

Did anyone say any views are not welcome, as you continue to suggest? That is clearly not so. At a minimum, I try and add a bit more context to my statements than you have done in this case. If you dont like links, just dont waste your time to open them.

We all know you prefer your status german cars, you have posted that very many times. Clearly, that is ok with others.

You made the following comment: ""Reliability hasn't been an issue in general for many brands. In fact reviews tend to say modern auto boxes are long term more reliable than clutches and gearboxes.""

I have merely requested the sources you claim to exist, as this is not what I have experenced locally- nor heard from users, transmission mechanics or read online. If you dont have them, or care to look them up, ok. But, dont try and pass it back on me, if you made a claim you cant back up.

I suspect individual experience varies, as does the performance of various models. However, my observatio is that few brands have escaped the significant flaws that has fueled many complaints, and actions to rectify the problems by manufacturers-when forced to do so.


here that automatic transmission one in the OP. When you make significant claims, as you did in your first post on here, at a minimum, it would be a courtesy to provide a couple of links to back up the claim to "enlighten" others on what you have found.

Subject: RE: BS: Automatic Auto. transmissions
From: Ed T
Date: 02 Nov 14 - 07:48 AM

A friend of mine, who works as a transmission tech, advised that "even if you find you have purchased a vehicle with a weak automatic transmisdion, you can extend the life of the vehicle's tranny by changing the transmission fluid more frequently". He recommend changing it at every second oil change interval. He added that many people focus on oil changes, but, rarely change their vehicles transmission fluid.

Below is advice I found online:

""Watch out for "pink stink," the burned odor that indicates trouble inside an automatic transmission.The next time you check the fluid level in an automatic, sniff the fluid on the end of the dip stick. If it smells like burned toast and/or has a discolored brown appearance, the fluid has cooked itself and is no longer capable of providing proper lubrication to the transmission. If you're lucky, you may have caught the problem before serious damage has been done -- but more often than not by the time the fried fluid is discovered, the transmission is also toast.""

Subject: RE: BS: Automatic Auto. transmissions
From: Musket
Date: 02 Nov 14 - 10:45 AM

So you didn't pick up on the piss take?

Dunno why I bother...

I do respect views. Even daft ones.

Subject: RE: BS: Automatic Auto. transmissions
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Nov 14 - 11:52 AM

Stop the bickering, guys. You're pissing on an otherwise interesting conversation.

Since I started driving I have mostly owned standard transmission vehicles. Started with a 1967 VW Bug, graduated to a small Ford Courier pickup (4 cylinder, built by Mazda), then a larger F100 that was three in the tree. My choices in more recent vehicles was tempered by a growing family and the need for child car seats. In the early 1990s it became harder to find much choice in new vehicles with a standard transmission. A mechanic friend explained that for years the standard transmission was where the improvements were being made but when the automatic transmission came into its own the stopped spending as much time on standard transmission development.

I've had three automatic transmissions - a Ford Explorer. There was a problem at one point that Ford was going to charge many hundreds of dollars to "fix," but an old fashioned one-man garage where I used to go figured it out and charged me $76. The transmission fluid was being sucked out through a hole at some point and because it was moving to another part of the engine and not dripping, it took intuition to figure it out. I'd added fluid a couple of times before he figured it out. I could have described this in a lucid manner 15 years ago, but I've forgotten the details.

My 2000 automatic Chevy Silverado Pickup was a champ and but for some body damage back in January I had planned to drive it into the ground. The tow-haul feature meant the automatic could do as good a job of towing - the standard used to be better for that. A 14-year-old pickup isn't worth much to the insurance and I opted to trade it in instead of getting the grill and hood replaced (sign post in a parking lot - driving into the sunset - one of those "aw, shit!" moments). In hindsight that repair wouldn't have been as bad as the transmission I had to replace in the small Chevy 2009 HHR I bought to replace the truck (looking for reliable transportation for the time being). If you have a breakdown in a town in the middle of nowhere where they have trouble keeping employees because it is in the middle of the Permian Basin oil field, you're screwed. I should have paid many hundreds of dollars to ship it home instead of letting the transmission shop fix it there. It took weeks and cost almost double the original estimate.

I'd love to get back to driving a pickup with a standard transmission, but the last time I test drove a full-sized pickup with a standard transmission it was so stiff I could hardly get the thing to move. They aren't improving these to add to the pleasure of driving.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Automatic Auto. transmissions
From: Mrrzy
Date: 02 Nov 14 - 12:58 PM

I drive a stick, and this kind of stuff is partially why... and trying to find a used car with a stickshift in the US in 2012 was like trying to find a natural beauty at a beauty pageant - everything with a stick also had the "sports package" with several thousand dollars' worth of stuff like spoilers and leather seats and nothing that had anything to do with changing gears.
And every used car salesclerk cited a different and, somehow, as the days wore on, smaller, percentage of Americans who can still drive a stick.
The phrase "can't drive a nail with a stickshift" is about to have even less meaning.

Subject: RE: BS: Automatic Auto. transmissions
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Nov 14 - 12:18 AM

I borrowed my next door neighbor's small pickup probably a dozen years ago when my car was in the shop. I had to take my then teenaged daughter somewhere and I think she spent the entire trip watching my left foot and right hand, amazed that I knew how to drive it. When she was born the stick had to go when we got a vehicle that held child car seats so she'd never seen one. It's nice to surprise your children every so often.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Automatic Auto. transmissions
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 03 Nov 14 - 04:16 AM

I've never owned a car with automatic transmission, I've driven manuals for fifty years (although I've rented automatics in Canada and Europe). Some of the funniest moments on the road I've ever had happened in Italy, travelling around with my Texan boss, and observing his attempts at gear-changing in a hire-car with a manual gearbox - either he didn't understand the relationship between clutch and gear-.stick, or his hand-foot co-ordination was absolutely non-existent. Unfortunately, and as you might expect of a Texan, his testosterone-overload was so sky-high that he refused to defer to my considerably greater manual-gearbox experience and wouldn't let me drive.

Hopefully, he learned an important lesson - that gear-changing with a manual box is not made smoother by the combination of brute force on the stick, and blasphemy.

Subject: RE: BS: Automatic Auto. transmissions
From: Musket
Date: 03 Nov 14 - 04:26 AM

I had a Citroen BX I put 120k miles on, a manual. The gearbox became so mushy I could easily change gear without the clutch, and therefore my first semi auto.

Of course, had it been a teutonic car rather than an oil eating surrender monkey, the gearbox would have been crisp and as good as day one.

🇫🇷 V 🇩🇪?

By the way, when I worked in italy, I noticed horns needed servicing more often than gearboxes....

Subject: RE: BS: Automatic Auto. transmissions
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 03 Nov 14 - 06:22 AM

I prefer manuals. Including for towing.

One of the skills that we used to practise, back in the day, was clutchless gearchanging. You do need to get the revs EXACTLY right.

Subject: RE: BS: Automatic Auto. transmissions
From: Ed T
Date: 03 Nov 14 - 06:24 AM

I used to do clutchless gearchanging with the 65 Mustang I had as a youth, as with my motorcycles.

Subject: RE: BS: Automatic Auto. transmissions
From: Musket
Date: 03 Nov 14 - 07:10 AM

A friend worked for a company doing engine software and one manufacturer booked a test track and a racing driver, and my mate linked the car to his laptop, put all sorts of sensors around the car, got in beside him and told him to drive it to the limit.

Four times he had to do it, each time my mate shaking his head, checking wiring connections etc. The driver said "What's up?" "Not getting feedback from the clutch sensor" said Mark.

"What fucking clutch?" Said the racing driver who never let clutches get in the way of changing gear.....

Subject: RE: BS: Automatic Auto. transmissions
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 03 Nov 14 - 04:22 PM

It'd be nice to have the Bobster contribute here.