Origins: Bring us in Good Ale / Bring Us Good Ale

Subject: Tune Discussion: Bring us in Good Ale
From: GUEST,andrew bushmill
Date: 22 Nov 14 - 10:05 PM

Question about the melody for Bring us in Good Ale. Chappell Vol I p 42 gives a melody of six phrases, while the lyrics have two phrases per verse plus two phrases per chorus. On the Summer Solstice LP, Maddy Prior sings the verses to the third and fourth phrases of Chappell's melody, the chorus to the fifth and sixth phrases, and omits the first two phrases entirely. Do other performers do the same thing? Are there examples of a performer using all six phrases of Chappell's melody? Thanks for any light to be shed.

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Thread #66419   Message #1240921
Posted By: Q (Frank Staplin)
05-Aug-04 - 07:01 PM
Thread Name: Lyr Req: Oh Good Ale Thou Art My Darling
Subject: Lyr Add: CHRISTMAS CAROL (GOOD ALE) (from Chappell

Lyr. Add: CHRISTMAS CAROL (Good Ale)

The burden or chorus:
Nowell, nowell, nowell, nowell *[Nowell, nowell, nowell all]
This is the salutation of the angel Gabriel.
Tidings true there be come new, sent from the Trinity,
By Gabriel to Nazareth, city of Galilee:
A clean maiden and pure virgin, Through her humility
Hath conceived the person second in Deity.

Bring us in good ale, good ale, *[And bring us in good ale:]
For our blessed Lady's sake, bring us in good ale.
Bring us in no brown bread, for that is made of bran,
Nor bring us in no white bread, For therein is no gain.
But bring us in good ale, good ale, And bring us in good ale.
For our blessed Lady's sake, Bring us in good ale.

About 1460, from William Chappell, The Ballad Literature and Popular Music of the Olden Time, vol. 1, p. 42 (Dover reprint), with music, section on English minstrelsy.
* [] May be omitted at pleasure; "added, because there would not otherwise be music enough for the "Wassail Song."

Subject: RE: Tune Discussion: Bring us in Good Ale
From: mayomick
Date: 23 Nov 14 - 07:50 AM

No idea, but I suspect all your "phrases" business may be just an excuse for a bit of early winter solstice wassailing this year at Mudcat ,Andrew.

Subject: RE: Tune Discussion: Bring us in Good Ale
From: GUEST,John P
Date: 23 Nov 14 - 11:02 AM

I've never heard the chorus, which you are referring to as the first two phrases, used for Bring Us In Good Ale. Many years ago, though, I recorded the Christmas carol version, The Salutation of the Angel. It's really an Annunciation song more than a Christmas song. You can hear a little piece of it at CD Baby; unfortunately the clip doesn't include any of the chorus in question. When we recorded it we had found a version in Chappell's Old English Popular Music that goes from 3/4 time to 4/4 in the sixth measure of the chorus.

My favorite thing about Salutation of the Angel is how Mary tells the angel that she's a virgin after being told she's going to give birth: "By what manner should I child bear, the which, ever a maid, have lived chaste all my life past and never man assayed?"

Subject: RE: Tune Discussion: Bring us in Good Ale
From: GUEST,andrew bushmill
Date: 23 Nov 14 - 02:15 PM

thanks John. That tortured wording reminds of the way they "versified" Psalm 23 in the Bay Psalm Book of 1640:

The Lord to me a shepherd is,
    Want therefore shall not I,
He in the folds of tender grass
    Doth make me down to lie   

To waters calm he gently leads
    Restore my soul doth he
He doth in paths of righteousness
    For his names sake lead me.   
   
Yea though in valley of death's shade
    I walk none ill I'll fear,
Because thou art with me, thy rod,
    and staff my comfort are.   

For me a table thou hast spread
    In presence of my foes;
Thou dost annoint my head with oil
    My cup it over-flows.   

Goodness and mercy surely shall
    All my days follow me;
And in the Lord's house I shall dwell
    So long as days shall be.

Subject: RE: Tune Discussion: Bring us in Good Ale
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Nov 14 - 03:32 PM

Take it from me that of all the people who have heard the song at all, 95% only know the Maddy Prior version(s) perhaps done by different people (and why not, she was good and it's a good song). John P's tune is the same, with the needle jumping a bit. I don't know who Chappell is unless he's the unsporting bastard who used to captain Australia. So how about a link to MP3's Midis, or just plain dots images of the phrases?

Subject: RE: Tune Discussion: Bring us in Good Ale
From: vectis
Date: 23 Nov 14 - 09:44 PM

Is the "bring us in good ale" you are referring to the one nicknamed the vegetarians' drinking song?

Subject: RE: Tune Discussion: Bring us in Good Ale
From: Reinhard
Date: 24 Nov 14 - 02:18 AM

This is a facsimile of the page in question: Chappell's Bring Us in Good Ale

Subject: RE: Tune Discussion: Bring us in Good Ale
From: Tradsinger
Date: 24 Nov 14 - 09:09 AM

I challenge Guest's assertion that 95% of people only know the Maddy Prior version. I listened to it and must confess the tune is a new one on me. The 'usual' version, which a lot of people sing in the folk and medieval world, is the one linked to Reinhard's post above and here is a good rendition of it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MygTl9WIcxo. Our medieval group "Waytes and Measures regularly performs this song.

Tradsinger

Subject: RE: Tune Discussion: Bring us in Good Ale
From: GUEST,John P
Date: 24 Nov 14 - 10:29 AM

Uh, Tradsinger, the melody in the YouTube you posted is the same as the Maddy Prior version and the same as both the Chappell books referenced above.

Here's a link to the other Chappell version I mentioned.

Subject: RE: Tune Discussion: Bring us in Good Ale
From: Tradsinger
Date: 24 Nov 14 - 12:17 PM

Oh, sorry. I looked up a Carnival Band version which had a different tune.

Subject: RE: Tune Discussion: Bring us in Good Ale
From: GUEST,Rahere
Date: 24 Nov 14 - 01:23 PM

The CB play a 15th Century tune, which is in this year's Carols and Capers playlist, so you can go hear it live. And for our blessed Lady's sake, get the mash on now...

Subject: Origins: Bring us in Good Ale
From: Joe Offer
Date: 18 Dec 19 - 12:43 AM

Here is the Traditional Ballad Index entry for this song:

Bring Us Good Ale

DESCRIPTION: The singer, "for our blessed Lady's sake," demands that the server "Bring us in good ale." Other foods are rejected (e.g. "Bring us in no brown bread, for that is made of bran, And bring us in no white bread, for therein is no gain.")
AUTHOR: unknown
EARLIEST DATE: c. 1475 (Oxford, MS. Bodl. 29734)
KEYWORDS: food drink nonballad
FOUND IN: Britain
REFERENCES (10 citations):
Stevick-100MEL 82, "(Bryng Us in Good Ale)" (1 text)
Rickert, p. 245, "Bring us in Good Ale" (1 text)
Chappell/Wooldridge I, pp. 30-31, "Nowell, Nowell" (1 tune, with a fragment of this text appended)
DT, BRINGALE*
ADDITIONAL: Richard Greene, editor, _A Selection of English Carols_, Clarendon Mdieval and Tudor Series, Oxford/Clarendon Press, 1962, #88, pp. 154-155, "(Bryng us in good ale, and bryng us in good ale)" (1 text)
Celia and Kenneth Sisam, _The Oxford Book of Medieval English Verse_, Oxford University Press, 1970; corrected edition 1973, #222, p. 482, "Bring us in Good Ale" (1 text)
Reginald Nettel, _Seven Centuries of Popular Song_, Phoenix House, 1956, pp. 31-32, "(no title)" (1 text)
Walter de la Mare, _Come Hither_, revised edition, 1928; #72, "Bring Us In Good Ale" (1 text)
Brown/Robbins, _Index of Middle English Verse_, #549
Digital Index of Middle English Verse #893
NOTES [129 words]: This is another song that cannot be demonstrated to have circulated in oral tradition. Its prevalence in the printed collections (starting with Ritson and Gammer Gurton's Garland), however, argues for its inclusion here -- especially as there are two distinct Middle English texts, from Bodleian MS. Eng. poet e. 1 and British Library MS. Harley 541.
According to RIckert, one of the manuscripts contains a note which seems to say that this is sung to the same tune as a carol which begins, "Nowel, nowell, nowell, This is the salutation of the angel Gabriel." For this tune, see Chappell/Wooldridge. However, Nettel, p 31, says that the association of text and tune is due to a bookbinding mistake, and that the carol and drinking song do not even fit the same melody. - RBW
Last updated in version 4.2
File: MEL82

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Here are the lyrics and tune from the Digital Tradition. They are an exact transcription from William Chappell's Popular Music of the Olden Time, Volume 1, page 42-43.

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BRING US GOOD ALE (DT Lyrics)

Chorus:
Bring us in good ale, good ale, and bring us in good ale,
For our blessed Lady's sake, bring us in good ale.

Bring us in no brown bread, for that is made of bran,
Nor bring us in no white bread, for therein is no grain,
But bring, etc.

Bring us in no beef, for there is many bones,
But bring us in good ale, for that go'th down at once.
And bring, etc.

Bring us in no bacon, for that is passing fat,
But bring us in good ale, and give us enough of that.
And bring, etc.

Bring us in no mutton, for that is passing lean,
Nor bring us in no tripes, for they be seldom clean.
But bring, etc.

Bring us in no eggs, for there are many shells,
But bring us in good ale, and give us nothing else.
But bring, etc.

Bring us in no butter, for therein are many hairs,
Nor bring us in no pig's flesh for that will make us bears. (boars???)
But bring, etc.

Bring us in no puddings, for therein is all God's good,
Nor bring us in no venison, that is not for our blood.
But bring, etc.

Bring us in no capon's flesh, for that is often dear,
Nor bring us in no duck's flesh, for they slobber in the mere (mire)
But bring, etc.

From Chapell, Popular Music of the Olden Time
Song from about 1460.
Recorded by Hart & Prior on Summer Solstice
@drink @food
filename[ BRINGALE
TUNE FILE: BRINGALE
CLICK TO PLAY
RG

Popup Midi Player

Here is the recording by Tim Hart and Maddy Prior. The melody seems to be the same as what's in Chappell and the Digital Tradition:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lw2qi66V5Nc

But the recording by Maddy Prior and the Carnival Band is quite different:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xmz_6L8AAU

-where does this second melody come from?

And here's The Young Tradition: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmRkBZyy5CM

Subject: RE: Origins: Bring us in Good Ale
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 18 Dec 19 - 06:11 AM

I remember singing part of this during a school Nativity play in about 1967. While I can't remember who put the full play together, I was the third shepherd. Our section of the Nativity seems to have included part of the Second Shepherds Play

Subject: RE: Origins: Bring us in Good Ale
From: Reinhard
Date: 18 Dec 19 - 03:17 PM

Joe, the second melody is an original composition from the Carnival Band's bass player Jub Davis.

Subject: RE: Origins: Bring us in Good Ale
From: Mo the caller
Date: 18 Dec 19 - 03:40 PM

Then there's the Kipper version

Subject: RE: Origins: Bring us in Good Ale
From: Joe Offer
Date: 18 Dec 19 - 05:40 PM

Hi, Mo - Sandra in Sidney beat you to it (and it's in the Digital Tradition now), but I think it's wise to post a copy in this thread, so it can be found.

Thread #55170   Message #856511
Posted By: Sandra in Sydney
01-Jan-03 - 08:15 AM
Thread Name: BS: A proper cup of tea: nothing like it!
Subject: Lyr Add: BRING US IN HOT TEA (Kipper)

A tea song!! from the immortal Kipper family (the following is pasted from an e-mail so I hope it is ok)

.......
The following words are taken from "Since Time Immoral: the Kipper Family Song Book" - published by the English Folk Dance and Song Society in 1986 (ISBN 0 85418 149)
The Kipper Family are allegedly from the Trunch region of Norfolk, England. Norfolk and good!

the material is copyright by R. Nudds and C. Sugden.

This is what Henry says of the song, Bring Us In Hot Tea:

I got this here song off my wife, Mrs. Dot Kipper. Tha’s Sid's mother, we think. Every Wednesday afternoon she go off to the local Women's Bright Hour, at the Village Hall, and all the women in the village sit there drinking tea, pot after pot. One week Dot come home the worse for it - she'd had one pot too many, and she was in a right state. I'm rather ashamed to say I took advantage of her - like I say, I got this here song off her.

BRING US IN HOT TEA

Bring us in no rum, for tha's a drink for sailors,
But bring us in hot tea, for that will never fail us.

CHORUS:
So bring us in hot tea, hot tea, and bring us in hot tea
That's what the blessed ladies make, so bring us in hot tea.

Bring us in no cider, for that will send us reeling,
But bring us in hot tea, Earl Grey, Ceylon or Darjeeling.

Bring us in no white wine for that don't cure no hot thirst,
But bring us in hot tea, and be sure to warm the pot first.

Bring us in no snaps, for they are made with brandy,
But bring us in hot tea, and a strainer would be handy.

Bring us in no gin, for that was mother's ruin,
But bring us in hot tea, and put a lump or two in.

Bring us in no home brew, we're not inclined to risk it,
But bring us in hot tea, oh, and all right, just one biscuit.

We'll drink no beer at Christmas, the good book tells the tale,
So bring us in hot tea, for the angels said, "No ale".

..................
Students of folklore will recognise this song as a relative (parody) of Bring Us In Good Ale where the chorus is:

Bring us in good ale, good ale
Bring us in good ale
For our Blessed Lady's sake,
Bring us in good ale.

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Lots of Kipper Family Classics here (click)

Subject: RE: Origins: Bring us in Good Ale / Bring Us Good Ale
From: Joe Offer
Date: 21 Nov 22 - 05:33 PM

At the Singaround, Cattia said that in Italian, this the Salutation Carol.
https://ontanomagico.altervista.org/good-ale.htm

Portaci della buona birra,
portaci della buona birra
per l'amore della Madonna Santissima,
portaci della buona birra!

https://terreceltiche.altervista.org/bring-us-good-ale/

Bring us in good ale (1), and bring us in good ale; For our Blessed Lady’s sake, bring us in good ale. I Bring us in no brown bread, for that is made of bran, Nor bring us in no white bread, for therein is no game(2); Bring us in no roastbeef, for there are many bones(3), But bring us in good ale, for that goes down at once II Bring us in no bacon, for that is passing fat, But bring us in good ale, and give us enough of that; Bring us in no mutton, for that is often lean, Nor bring us in no tripes, for they be seldom clean III Bring us in no eggs, for there are many shells, But bring us in good ale, and give us nothing else; Bring us in no butter, for therein are many hairs; Nor bring us in no pig’s flesh, for that will make us boars IV Bring us in no puddings, for therein is all God’s good; Nor bring us in no venison, for that is not for our blood(4); Bring us in no capon’s flesh, for that is often dear(5); Nor bring us in no duck’s flesh, for they slobber in the mere

Traduzione italiano di Cattia Salto Portaci della buona birra, portaci della buona birra per l’amore della Madonna Santissima, portaci della buona birra! I Non portarci del pane nero perché è fatto di crusca, non portarci del pane bianco perché non è dei nostri. Non portarci del manzo perché ci sono troppe ossa, ma portaci della buona birra, che vada giù d’un fiato. II Non portarci della pancetta, perché contiene molto grasso, ma portaci della buona birra e daccene abbastanza. Non portarci del montone, perché è spesso magro, non portarci la trippa perché raramente è pulita bene. III Non portarci uova perché ci sono troppi gusci, ma portaci della buona birra e non darci altro. Non portarci il burro perché ci sono troppi peli, non portarci carne di maiale per quello che ci rendono i cinghiali. IV Non portarci dolci, perché sono un bene di Dio, non ci portare del cervo, perché non è per la gente comune. Non portarci carne di cappone per quello che ci è più caro, non portarci carne di anatra perché sguazza nel fango

Subject: RE: Origins: Bring us in Good Ale / Bring Us Good Ale
From: GUEST,vectis
Date: 18 Dec 22 - 03:28 AM

Nicknamed the vegetarian shanty.

Subject: RE: Origins: Bring us in Good Ale / Bring Us Good Ale
From: Rex
Date: 18 Dec 22 - 02:10 PM

I was singing the carol yesterday (Nowell, nowell, nowell, nowell...
This is the salutation of the angel Gabriel.) I was telling how it appears to have been the source for Bring us in Good Ale. One fellow offered that it also appears to be the tune for High Barbary. I can see the similarity in form but do not thing it is close to the same tune.