DT Study: Up Among the Heather

Subject: RE: DT Study: Up Among the Heather
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 21 Feb 15 - 10:03 AM

Thank you, Megan and Snuffy, for the definition of gut and quine.

Subject: DT Study: Up Among the Heather
From: Joe Offer
Date: 20 Feb 15 - 11:26 PM

Here's the Google Cache of one thread that got lost in the crash.

Subject: DT Study: Up Among the Heather
From: Joe Offer
Date: 09 Jan 15 - 11:07 PM

I found these lyrics in the Digital Tradition, but can't find any background information. Can anybody enlighten us, furnish other versions, etc?
-Joe-
UP AMONG THE HEATHER (DT Version)

Up among the heather on the hellabenafee
It was there I had a bonny wee lass sitting on my knee
A bungbee stung me well above the knee
We rested down together on the hellabenafee

Said I me bonny wee lassie are ya going to spend the day
Up amongst the heather on the hellabenafee
Where all the lads and lassies they're having a sobree
Up among the heather on the hellabenafee
Up among the heather on the hellabenafee
It was there I had a bonny wee lass sitting on my knee
A bungbee stung me well above the knee
We rested down together on the hellabenafee

Said I me bonny wee lassie please take my advice
Don't ever let a soldier laddie love you more than twice
For all the time you do, he's a fixing how to plan
How to get a wee-be rattle at your old tin can

Up among the heather on the hellabenafee
It was there I had a bonny wee lass sitting on my knee
A bungbee stung me well above the knee
We rested down together on the hellabenafee

Recorded by Irish Rovers
@courtship
filename[ UPMOOR
BL
This is an edited DTStudy thread, and all messages posted here are subject to editing and deletion.
This thread is intended to serve as a forum for corrections and annotations for the Digital Tradition song named in the title of this thread.

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Subject: RE: DT Study: Up Among the Heather
From: Joe Offer
Date: 09 Jan 15 - 11:20 PM

Here's a recording by the Irish Rovers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ex9gh8yv2I

Could "hellabenafee" be something like "Hill of Bennachee"?

-Joe Mondegreen-
Is this a traditional song, or composed? Harry Fox Agency says the song recorded by the Irish Rovers was composed by Will Millar, published by Antrim Music Publishing, Inc. - recorded by the Irish Rovers, by Ken Haynes, and by....Sarah Vaughan.

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Subject: RE: DT Study: Up Among the Heather
From: Joe Offer
Date: 09 Jan 15 - 11:29 PM

Bat Goddess, bless her, posted this in a thread on Mary Mack:

Thread #2645   Message #735930
Posted By: Bat Goddess
24-Jun-02 - 03:04 PM
Thread Name: Lyr Req: Mary Mack or Mari-Mac
Subject: ADD: THE HILL O' BENNACHIE
Then there this Scots song (to the same tune as "Come All Ye Fisher Lasses") and recorded by Arthur Argo, I think ("A Wee Thread o' Blue"):
THE HILL O' BENNACHIE
(Traditional)

Chorus:
It was up among the heather on the hill o' Bennachie
It was there I set a bonnie lassie sittin' on my knee
When a bum' bee start me richt below the knee
And we both came haem a mournin' for the hill o' Bennachie.

Now says I to my friends for ya going to spend the day
I'm going to spend the day on the hill o' Bennachie
For the lads and the lasses they are set so free
Among the bloomin' heather on the hill o' Bennachie.
(Chorus)

As I was a wand'rin' on the hill o' Bennachie
I met a bonnie lassie, she was kilted to the knee.
I took her and followed her and aye she said to me,
"Aye, Jock, your whiskers ticklin'" on the hill o' Bennachie.
(Chorus)

Now says I, me bonnie lassie, will you tak' my advice?
Oh, never let a soldier laddie kiss you more than twice.
'Cause all the time he's kissing you he's makin' up a plan
To hae another rattle at your old tin can.
(Chorus)

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Subject: RE: DT Study: Up Among the Heather
From: Joe Offer
Date: 10 Jan 15 - 12:09 AM

This page (click) compares versions by the Irish Ramblers and the Irish Rovers.

CHORUS IRISH RAMBLERS
Up among the heather on the hellabenafee(1)
It was there I had a bonny wee lass sitting on my knee
A bungbee stung me well above the knee(2)
We rested down together on the hellabenafee

CHORUS IRISH ROVERS
Up among the heather on the hill o' Bennachie(1)
rolling with a wee lass underneath a tree
A bum-bee stung me well above the knee(2)
Up among the heather on the hill o' Bennachie

I
As I went out a-roving on a summer's day
I spied a bonnie lassie strolling on the brae
she was picking wild berries and I offered her a hand
saying "maybe I can help you fill your wee tin can(3)"

II (versione Irish Ramblers)
Said I me bonny wee lassie are ya going to spend the day
Up amongst the heather on the hellabenafee
Where all the lads and lassies they're having a sobree
Up among the heather on the hellabenafee

II (versione Irish Rovers)
Says "I me bonnie lass are you going to spend the day
up among the heather where the lads and lassies play
they're hugging and they're kissing and they're making fancy free
among the blooming heather on the hill o' Bennachie"

III
We sat down together and I held her in me arms
I hugged her and I kissed her taken by her charms
then I took out me fiddle(4) and I fiddled merrily
among the blooming heather on the hill o' Bennachie

IV (versione Irish Ramblers)
Said I me bonny wee lassie please take my advice
Don't ever let a soldier laddie love you more than twice
For all the time you do, he's a fixing how to plan
How to get a wee-be rattle at your old tin can

IV (versione Irish Rovers)
Come all you bonnie lessies and take my advice
and never let a soldier laddie kiss you more than twice.
For all the time he's kissing you he's thinking out a plan
To get a wee bit rattle at your ould tin can.

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Subject: RE: DT Study: Up Among the Heather
From: Reinhard
Date: 10 Jan 15 - 12:34 AM

Elizabeth Stewart of the Fetterangus Stewarts sang Up Among the Heather in 2004 on her CD Binnorie. Thomas A. McKean commented in the album's booklet:

"This relatively little-known local song, set on the slopes of Bennachie near Inverurie, is a light-hearted account of courtship and mishap. Found almost exclusively in Traveller communities, it has parallels with the more ribald The Cuckoo's Nest."

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Subject: RE: DT Study: Up Among the Heather
From: pattyClink
Date: 10 Jan 15 - 07:35 PM

I'm pretty sure this isn't really adding to the scholarship, but for the record, the boys of Great Big Sea have recorded this as a concoction with Mary Mack or Mari-Mac, however that one is spelled.

The heathery part starts at :49

link

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Subject: RE: DT Study: Up Among the Heather
From: Joe Offer
Date: 11 Jan 15 - 07:20 AM

Hi, Patty-
The Great Big Sea performance was fun. I think I'm safe in calling this a traditional song, even though the commercial acts have got their hands on it from time to time.
Cheers!
-Joe-

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Subject: RE: DT Study: Up Among the Heather
From: Vic Smith
Date: 11 Jan 15 - 08:55 AM

I have an early album of Robin Hall & Jimmy MacGregor bought when I was still at school - Robin Hall And Jimmie MacGregor with Galliards, The ‎– A Rovin' (Ace of Clubs - 1962) This was a budget label and as Robin & Jimmy has been playing live most every night on the hugely popular "Tonight" programme on the UK's only television channel at the time, this album sold in vast numbers.
I would suggest that this album was why this song was so very popular in the early days of the folk club boom and where the subsequent recordings were inspired by. The full LP contents were:-

–Galliards, The         Dig My Grave         
–Galliards, The         Villancico         
–Robin And Jimmie*         Go Tell Aunt Rhody         
–Robin*         My Love Is Like A Red, Red Rose         
–Galliards, The         Asikatali         
–Shirley*         A Bold Young Farmer         
–Galliards, The         When I First Came To This Land         
–Galliards, The         Johnny, I Hardly Knew You         
–Galliards, The         Lamidbar         
–Robin And Jimmie*         Up Among The Heather         
–Galliards, The         Ksekina Mia Psarapoula         
–Jimmie*         A Bucketful Of Mountain Dew         
–Robin And Jimmie*         The Overgate         
–Galliards, The         Lowlands         
–Robin And Jimmie*         Time For Man Go Home

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Subject: RE: DT Study: Up Among the Heather
From: Joe Offer
Date: 11 Jan 15 - 09:07 AM

Wikipedia tells me that "Bennachie" means "hill of the breast"...and it has a photo to prove the point.

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Subject: RE: DT Study: Up Among the Heather
From: maeve
Date: 11 Jan 15 - 10:07 AM

That sounds like a Wiki sort of translation, but here's another thought to ponder from my distant cousin, James MacDonald in his Place Names in Strathbogie: With Notes Historical, Antiquarian, and Descriptive

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Subject: RE: DT Study: Up Among the Heather
From: Reinhard
Date: 11 Jan 15 - 11:10 AM

Concering the tune of this song, here's again Thomas A. McKean in the booklet of Eliabeth Stewart's album "Binnorie":

In 1960, Ewan MacColl and Peggy Seeger, along with Charles Parker, were preparing a "radio ballad", a montage of interviews, ambient sound of working life, music and new songs, on the life of English and Scottish fisher-folk: "Singing the Fishing". Arthur Argo, grandson of Gavin Greig, sent the team a tape of Elizabeth and her sister Jane singing Up Among the Heather, with piano, jazzed-up to quickstep time. Peggy Seeger recalls,

    I remember those two aligned voices and the gutsy piano. We were dancing around listening to it; it was so bouncy and full of life.

The resulting tune was used by MacColl for the now classic Come A' Ye Fisher Lassies, a song now usually assumed to be traditional and which perfectly encapsulates the hard graft of the gutting quines.

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Subject: RE: DT Study: Up Among the Heather
From: Joe Offer
Date: 05 Feb 15 - 03:29 PM

I'm researching this song for the upcoming Rise Again songbook, and I have to submit proof that the song is in the public domain. I'm not sure that proof is possible, but at least I can prove that it pre-dates the Irish Rovers, who have the only copyright claim I can find.

We did a study of the song here:
http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=156542&messages=11

Mind you, this is a song about Scotland. The Irish Rovers were a Canadian Irish group founded in 1963. "Up Among the Heather" came out on their 1968 album, "All Hung Up."
http://www.discogs.com/search/?q=up+among+the+heather&type=all

"Up Among the Heather" was recorded in 1964 by an unrelated groupo, the Irish Ramblers
http://www.discogs.com/Irish-Ramblers-The-The-Patriot-Game/master/549670


"Up Among the Heather" was recorded in 1962 by Robin Hall and Jimmie McGregor with the Gaillards, on an album called "A Rovin" (available on Spotify).
http://www.discogs.com/Robin-Hall-and-Jimmie-MacGregor-with-Galliards-A-Rovin/master/580205



And then there's this:
The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #156542   Message #3693167
Posted By: Reinhard
11-Jan-15 - 11:10 AM
Thread Name: DT Study: Up Among the Heather
Subject: RE: DT Study: Up Among the Heather
Concering the tune of this song, here's again Thomas A. McKean in the booklet of Eliabeth Stewart's album "Binnorie":

In 1960, Ewan MacColl and Peggy Seeger, along with Charles Parker, were preparing a "radio ballad", a montage of interviews, ambient sound of working life, music and new songs, on the life of English and Scottish fisher-folk: "Singing the Fishing". Arthur Argo, grandson of Gavin Greig, sent the team a tape of Elizabeth and her sister Jane singing Up Among the Heather, with piano, jazzed-up to quickstep time. Peggy Seeger recalls,

    I remember those two aligned voices and the gutsy piano. We were dancing around listening to it; it was so bouncy and full of life.

The resulting tune was used by MacColl for the now classic Come A' Ye Fisher Lassies, a song now usually assumed to be traditional and which perfectly encapsulates the hard graft of the gutting quines.


So, that dates it back to an unpublished 1960 tape by Elizabeth and Jane Stewart. Elizabeth Stewart finally released the song on her "Binnorie" album in 2004.



The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #156542   Message #3692727
Posted By: Reinhard
10-Jan-15 - 12:34 AM
Thread Name: DT Study: Up Among the Heather
Subject: RE: DT Study: Up Among the Heather
Elizabeth Stewart of the Fetterangus Stewarts sang Up Among the Heather in 2004 on her CD Binnorie. Thomas A. McKean commented in the album's booklet:

"This relatively little-known local song, set on the slopes of Bennachie near Inverurie, is a light-hearted account of courtship and mishap. Found almost exclusively in Traveller communities, it has parallels with the more ribald The Cuckoo's Nest."



One Mudcatter thought that Arthur Argo (1935-1981) also recorded the song. I was hoping I'd find the song in the 8-volume collection by Argo's grandfather, Gavin Greig, but no such luck. It has several versions of another song about Bennachie, but not this one.

I'd say that's pretty good documentation that the song does not belong to the Irish Rovers. If anyone can claim it, it would be Elizabeth Stewart, and the notes on her album say that it's a "little known local song, found almost exclusively in Traveller communities."

-Joe-

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Subject: ADD Version: The Hill o' Bennachie
From: Joe Offer
Date: 05 Feb 15 - 04:08 PM

Bat Goddess directed me to horntip.com which has recording excerpts and notes from the 1962 Arthur Argo album, A Wee Thread of Blue

Notes: THE HILL O' BENNACHIE: This (and also "Hishie Ba," and "Love Is Teasin' ") was taught to Argo by Lucy Stewart, a Fetterangus hen-wife to whom he was introduced by Kenneth S. Goldstein in his researches in northeast Scotland a few years ago. The theme is not unusual in bawdy folksong: the action is begun by the stings of nature as well as the arrows of Cupid.

THE HILL O' BENNACHIE

Chorus:
It was up among the heather on the hill o' Bennachie
It was there I set a bonnie lassie sittin' on my knee
When a bum' bee start me richt below the knee
And we both came haem a mournin' for the hill o' Bennachie.

Now says I to my friends for ya going to spend the day
I'm going to spend the day on the hill o' Bennachie
For the lads and the lasses they are set so free
Among the bloomin' heather on the hill o' Bennachie.

As I was a wand'rin' on the hill o' Bennachie
I met a bonnie lassie, she was kilted to the knee.
I took her and followed her and aye she said to me,
"Aye, Jock, your whiskers ticklin'" on the hill o' Bennachie.

Now says I, me bonnie lassie, will you tak' my advice?
Oh, never let a soldier laddie kiss you more than twice.
'Cause all the time he's kissing you he's makin' up a plan
To hae another rattle at your old tin can.

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Subject: RE: DT Study: Up Among the Heather
From: Joe Offer
Date: 06 Feb 15 - 03:01 AM

Here's my transcription of the 1962 recording by by Robin Hall and Jimmie McGregor with the Gaillards, on an album called "A Rovin" (available on Spotify).

UP AMONG THE HEATHER

CHORUS:
Up among the heather on the Hill of Bennachie
There I had a bonnie wee lass a-sittin' on my knee
A bum' bee stung me weel above the knee
We both came haem a mournin' for the hill o' Bennachie. (unclear)

Says I me bonnie lassie are ya going to spend the day
Up amongst the heather on the Hill o' Bennachie
For all the lads and the lassies are makin' oh so free
Amongst the bloomin' heather on the hill o' Bennachie.
CHORUS

Oh, ye bonnie wee lassies, listen to my advice
Never let a soldier laddie kiss you more than twice.
For all the time he's kissing you he's thinkin' up a plan
To get a wee bit rattle at your old tin can.
CHORUS

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Subject: RE: DT Study: Up Among the Heather
From: Joe Offer
Date: 06 Feb 15 - 03:06 AM

Reinhard posted his transcription of the song from Elizabeth Stewart's album, Binnorie. I hope he doesn't mind my posting it here:

UP AMONG THE HEATHER

CHORUS:
It's up among the heather on the hill o Bennachie
Twas there I met a bonnie lassie kilted tae the knee
When a bumbee stung me richt below the knee
And we baith gaed haem a-murnin fae the hill o Bennachie.

Said I tae my lassie, Whaur are ye gaun tae spend the day?
Oh I'm gaun tae spend the day on the hill o Bennachie
Whaur the lads and the lassies they aa sit sae free
Amongst the bloomin heather on the hill o Bennachie.

As I wis a-walkin on the hill o Bennachie
Twas there I sat a bonnie lassie sitting on ma knee
I took her and whurled her and aye she said tae me,
O Jock we'll ging a-wanderin on the hill o Bennachie.

Said I tae my lassie, Will you tak my advice?
Never let a sodjer laddie kiss ye mair than twice
For aa the time he's kissin ye he's makin up a plan
For tae hae anither rattle at yer aul tin can.

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Subject: RE: DT Study: Up Among the Heather
From: GUEST,Reinhard
Date: 06 Feb 15 - 09:31 AM

I hope he doesn't mind my posting it here

I've used quite a few Mudcat lyrics on Mainly Norfolk, so I would be a bloody fool if I'd complain about you returning the favour ;-)

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Subject: RE: DT Study: Up Among the Heather
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 07 Feb 15 - 09:54 AM

On the 11th of January somebody wrote that the tune "perfectly encapsulates the hard graft of the gutting quines."

Really? Whatever does that mean? I looked up 'quine.'

Origin: In philosophy "to Quine" used to deny existence of entities that cannot be individuated or identified (after ontological methodology of W.V.Quine).

There's a later definition involving computers, but I don't think it applies.

And what about gutting? Sometimes strings are made of gut.

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Subject: RE: DT Study: Up Among the Heather
From: Megan L
Date: 07 Feb 15 - 10:15 AM

Quine is used in Doric referring to women. The gutting quines were women who used to follow the herring boats around the coast of Britain.

They would wrap their hands to give them some protection from the knife and salt.

Pictures of the can be found by googling "herring gutter"

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Subject: RE: DT Study: Up Among the Heather
From: Snuffy
Date: 07 Feb 15 - 10:23 AM

Quine is a Scottish dialect word meaning "woman". It is related to the Standard Eglish "Queen".The Scandinavian languages have a related word for "woman", such as Kvinde.

The gutting quines were the women who in the 19th and 20th centuries followed the North Sea fishing fleets, and gutted the fish after they'd been landed. This was extremely hard graft (work).

Subject: ADD: THE HILL O' BENNACHIE
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 24 Jun 02 - 03:04 PM

Then there this Scots song (to the same tune as "Come All Ye Fisher Lasses") and recorded by Arthur Argo, I think ("A Wee Thread o' Blue"):

THE HILL O' BENNACHIE
(Traditional)

Chorus:
It was up among the heather on the hill o' Bennachie
It was there I set a bonnie lassie sittin' on my knee
When a bum' bee start me richt below the knee
And we both came haem a mournin' for the hill o' Bennachie.

Now says I to my friends for ya going to spend the day
I'm going to spend the day on the hill o' Bennachie
For the lads and the lasses they are set so free
Among the bloomin' heather on the hill o' Bennachie.
(Chorus)

As I was a wand'rin' on the hill o' Bennachie
I met a bonnie lassie, she was kilted to the knee.
I took her and followed her and aye she said to me,
"Aye, Jock, your whiskers ticklin'" on the hill o' Bennachie.
(Chorus)

Now says I, me bonnie lassie, will you tak' my advice?
Oh, never let a soldier laddie kiss you more than twice.
'Cause all the time he's kissing you he's makin' up a plan
To hae another rattle at your old tin can.
(Chorus)