UK Folk Club Map

Subject: UK Folk Club Map
From: GUEST,FreddyHeadey
Date: 21 Feb 15 - 04:18 PM

There is a handy UK Folk Club Map maintained by Chris Rust of "Break a Leg!". Different coloured star for each day.
Add your own club here.

Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Map
From: GUEST,Raggytash 11 Feb
Date: 21 Feb 15 - 04:19 PM

What a cracking resource!! Well done to Chris Rust whoe created this.

Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Map
From: GUEST,Teribus 19 Feb
Date: 21 Feb 15 - 04:20 PM

Totally agree with Raggytash, great and very useful idea by Chris Rust and thank you Freddy for bringing it to our attention.

Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Map
From: GUEST,Raggytash 19 Feb
Date: 21 Feb 15 - 04:21 PM

Bloody Hell Teribus, you had me worried there, for a nanosecond I thought I was on another thread!!! :-)

Seriously though it is pleasant to be able to agree on some things.

Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Map
From: GUEST,DTM 12 Feb
Date: 21 Feb 15 - 04:21 PM

Well done compilers. Fantastic work.
There are also a good number of monthly sessions at various locations. May I suggest a different map could be done for them or maybe just a different icon would suffice.

Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Map
From: GUEST,12 Feb
Date: 21 Feb 15 - 04:22 PM

Montly sessions are on the current map. Some don't want publicity as they don't want an audience turning up and pushing out the players.

Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Map
From: GUEST,Jon (12 Feb)
Date: 21 Feb 15 - 04:22 PM

There is/was another UK map started by Jim Lawton a few years back. I don't know its status but it doesn't seem to be working for me.

I hope this new one goes well but, I remain doubtful about the reliability of national listings in the longer term. I expect people to be more likely to add new events than remove closed ones and other information can go astray, eg. I've seen changes of venues/days listed as additional events. For these reasons, I prefer more local listings where the maintainer(s) may have more of thier local knowledge and may be in closer contact with event organisers in the area

Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Map
From: GUEST,G-Force (12 Feb)
Date: 21 Feb 15 - 04:23 PM

The idea is good, obviously. Not sure about the American-format dates!

Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Map
From: GUEST,Jack Campin (12 Feb)
Date: 21 Feb 15 - 04:24 PM

Is there any way to slim it down so it works on a phone with a 3G connection? I gave up after staring at a half-drawn bit of the North Atlantic south of Greenland for a few minutes.

Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Map
From: GUEST,FreddyHeadey (12 Feb)
Date: 21 Feb 15 - 04:25 PM

I only put the link to the map because I thought it would be handy.
Any suggestions posted on Mudcat are unlikely to be seen.

DTM/Jack/others...
maybe you could address any suggestions to
his wordpress website -see the links there
or
his FaceBook page which seems quite active.

Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Map
From: GUEST,Surreysinger (12 Feb)
Date: 21 Feb 15 - 04:26 PM

Thanks for posting your comments Jon. I too remember Jim's map, and got a distinct sense of deja vu when this almost identical map idea popped up on Facebook. I see that Jim's was started 9 years ago, and recall that it was heralded then as the best new thing since sliced bread. And a great idea it seemed at the time... but as you say the big problem is/was the fact that once items had been entered the original posters, if I recall correctly,having posted moved on and failed to keep things up to date. The resource then obviously becomes somewhat less useful. I do wonder how much better this will fare. But nevertheless ...good luck to the originator.

Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Map
From: GUEST,Good Soldier Schweik (13 Feb 2015)
Date: 21 Feb 15 - 04:27 PM

Has Ulster said no, any clubs up there?

Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Map
From: GUEST,Paul Reade (13 Feb)
Date: 21 Feb 15 - 04:27 PM

Great idea! Just added Burnley Folk Club

Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Map
From: GUEST,Ian Hendrie (13 Feb)
Date: 21 Feb 15 - 04:28 PM

Good wishes with this venture but I fear the worries about it going out of date are well founded. It's hard enough keeping the site covering the Stockport area accurate (and I do that pro-actively). There also seem to be one or two clubs I know about which seem to have 'moved' slightly from their real homes.

Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Map
From: GUEST,JHW (14Feb)
Date: 21 Feb 15 - 04:29 PM

Curious week
Friday
Monday
Saturday
Sunday
Thursday
Tuesday
Various
Wednesday

Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Map
From: GUEST,FreddyHeadey (14 Feb)
Date: 21 Feb 15 - 04:30 PM

Yes JHW, he'd probably welcome a message (send Chris a message ) if you can show him how to get google to show the list in the 'proper' order rather than alphabetical. Same with the date.
I did ask him about the date stamp format but he said "that's the way google does it ". :-(

Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Map
From: GUEST,Mr. Red (14 Feb)
Date: 21 Feb 15 - 04:31 PM

I am having discussion with the author. He is well aware of the pitfalls, some he spotted, some I highlighted. Like the datestamp and its format! I think it is what it is, crowd sourcing is notorious for; agendas, keen but ill informed helpers, keen going on disillusioned organisers, disorganised organisers, organisers who delegate, and the laissez faire/forgetful. Not to mention landlords, breweries and the recession.

The alternatives are something like mine that only covers the Mid West of England. cresby.com for venues within a radius eg Bristol and I was toying with the idea of a sort of stylised map and will do it given time. Meanwhile I intend to slot-in a few of my "venues within a radius" links, that way the information is as up-to-date as my efforts. And that effectively depends on crowds sourcing via "knowledge", eye-balling people, other keen information junkies. Indeed Bill McKinnon of Oxfordshire usually laughs as I advance toward himm. He knows the question I will ask - about his knowledge. Others do the same. It is first hand knowledge. But at best it is a small subset.

I include festivals and ceilidhs in my geographical filter so this map will only benefit from my co-operation.

As LBJ said, better inside the tent pissing out.

Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Map
From: GUEST,Mr. Red (14 Feb)
Date: 21 Feb 15 - 04:32 PM

OK. I have submitted my URLs for: Worcester, Malvern, Stroud, Bristol, Bromyard, Hereford, Bath, Chippenham, Gloucester and Cheltenham.

enough to be going on with while we find the limitations of the entry form etc. My URLs list venues within 20 Km of the focus (usually a venue near the centre of the town). So things like day, time, week etc are meaningless.

But it is a start.

My methodology was always to link to/rely on others with the same altruistic agenda, most with better knowledge in their area. This is in the same vein.

Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Map
From: GUEST,Chris RusT (14 Feb)
Date: 21 Feb 15 - 04:33 PM

Hi Everybody, thanks for the comments and any suggestions are gratefully received. There are a number of limitations with the very simple technical approach I'm using (like that 'alphabetic' week) but I'm looking to refine it.

There's now a FAQ on the map web pages including quite a detailed description of how it works.

My main aim is for this to be as crowd-sourced and self-sustaining as possible. That brings its own problems but I don't feel they can be solved by not being crowd-sourced, if you see what I mean.

Thanks to Mr Red for letting me know about this thread, I haven't paid attention to Mudcat for a while :o)

Thanks also for the mention of Jim Lawton's map. I can see very well how that happened and the only hope I have is that things have moved on so we are all much more web-aware and Facebook in particular has smoothed the communication problem. It's an experiment I guess.
I missed a trick not setting up a Facebook page before everything else but nevertheless the page is approaching 100 followers already and if that community can be encouraged from time to time to check their own entries and police a few more it might work.
It was Facebook that pushed the map from my original few entries to over 300 in 3 days (tapering off now). I was gobsmacked.
And Hooray, I've incorporated a manual reformat in my refresh procedure and dates are now UK standard.

Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Map
From: GUEST,The Snail (16 Feb)
Date: 21 Feb 15 - 04:34 PM

Chris now has a badge to put on participating websites. I've justy done it The Lewes Saturday Fok Club. I think lack of something like this may have been a problem with Jim Lawton's map. It's all very well organisers putting their clubs on there but the punters need to know about it as well.

Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Map
From: GUEST,Mr Red (16 Feb 2015)
Date: 21 Feb 15 - 04:36 PM

Return links! Courtesy links! I have found some webmasters think you are being downright impertinent to suggest some sort of quid pro quo in this context. A goodly number understand and link back to me. Fortunately.
It is how the internet works.
What was that comment about the insular, the small world? Narrow minds?
Thankfully there are at least some of those that echo our genre's characteristic.

If someone gives you a free service is it free, not "without value".
show you VALUE IT.

Link back.

Chris - Still waiting to see how well my submissions work.

Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Map
From: GUEST,Joe G (16 Feb)
Date: 21 Feb 15 - 04:37 PM

Well done Chris - I first came across this on FB and it has gone down very well there - as others have said the onus will be on organisers to keep it up to date but lets hope they do - will make UK holidays potentially more interesting :-)

Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Map
From: GUEST,Jack Campin (16 Feb 2015)
Date: 21 Feb 15 - 04:38 PM

The problem is, if you're on holiday, the chances are you'll be using a phone or tablet with a wet-piece-of-string interface to the outside world. I typed my previous message at a cafe in Dunoon, and if there was anything happening that night in the Cowal Peninsula, I'd have found out about it a lot faster by walking down the high street looking at posters in shop windows. (The map works fine on my desktop, where I don't need it).

So something that bypasses the Google Maps interface is essential for actually using it where it counts. No matter how powerful your new phone is, Google will have added new features to their system before you've finished unboxing it; you will never catch up.

Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Map
From: GUEST,Freddy Headey (17 Feb)
Date: 21 Feb 15 - 04:39 PM

I don't have a smartphone. The desktop version is fine for me.

I'm glad Chris didn't presume he'd never catch up.

A simple google for Dunoon folk clubs might bring up loads of great links but I see the advantage of the map is being able to see nearby & 'on route to' alternatives.

Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Map
From: GUEST,Raggytash (17 Feb 2015)
Date: 21 Feb 15 - 04:39 PM

Just a suggestion Jack but I look up places before I set off. Thus I arrive armed with at least some information about the locale. I also ask on Mudcat before I set off anywhere to try and ascertain what is available locally.

PS Look into the Black Horse if you're down for Whitby Folk Week

Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Map
From: GUEST,The Snail (17 Feb)
Date: 21 Feb 15 - 04:40 PM

So something that bypasses the Google Maps interface is essential for actually using it where it counts.

Excvellent idea, Jack. Let us know when you've got it up and running.

Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Map
From: GUEST,Tattie Bogle (17 Feb)
Date: 21 Feb 15 - 04:41 PM

Guessing that it should work better than 9 years ago, now that so many more people have smartphones, use social media, and much greater availability of wi-fi.

I have added a couple of clubs in central Scotland and other friends have added theirs.

Obviously any system depends for reliability on those who post the info keeping it up-to-date. For anyone looking for clubs in Scotland the following is also a useful resource: www.scottish-folk-music.com which lists all sorts of things, clubs, gigs, festivals, sessions, bands, etc.(sorry no clicky - iPad not playing ball!)

Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Map
From: GUEST,Jack Campin (18 Feb 2015)
Date: 21 Feb 15 - 04:46 PM

Clicky for the site Tattie Bogle mentioned:

http://www.scottish-folk-music.com/index.html

Maybe they can share info with the UK Folk Club Map. (Unless directory sites do that, none of them will ever be much use).

There is a mobile app version of Google Maps, which works reasonably well without wi-fi. Can the UK Folk Club Map use that as an alternative to the browser one?   Or doesn't it support added layers?

Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Map
From: GUEST,Mr Red (18 Feb)
Date: 21 Feb 15 - 04:48 PM

(The map works fine on my desktop, where I don't need it).

that's what printers are for. Though having said that my page works better on that wheeze. Though it doesn't cover Dunoon.

opening page of the geographical search of cresby.com there is even a printer friendly format that obviates the header and displays only the data. Which is how I auto-generate the URLs for a given town eg Gloucester. Indeed I do exactly this for several towns en route to a Festival and give them to TIC's - with mixed reactions.
http://www.users.waitrose.com/~cresby/fcctest3.htm#383074-218617-Gloucester-10
Which would be useful to the map, but my test submissions have not filtered through to the map yet.

I even use my own website. Print a town page where I am going.

BTW I just tried to preview the above post and mis-typed the closing hyperlink TAG as </> and the only way I could prevent the whole text box from acting like a hyperlink was to right click, select all, copy, paste to notepad, copy and right click paste. A weird anomaly on Mudcat.

Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Map
From: GUEST,Peter Cripps (18 Feb)
Date: 21 Feb 15 - 04:50 PM

We at Glosfolk have a PDF handout of a map showing locations of Folk Clubs, Dance Clubs, Music Sessions, Morris sides, and Mummers in Gloucestershire, with a summary in Word of contact details etc on the reverse. We give it out from our information stand, but so far I have not discovered how to put it on the web, but if anyone wants a copy please e-mail me [e-mail]
and I will be happy to oblige. Keeping it up to date is difficult but not impossible!

Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Map
From: GUEST,Tattie Bogle (18 Feb)
Date: 21 Feb 15 - 04:52 PM

Thanks Jack..

Peter C you can add your handout to your Facebook page if you just re-save it as a JPEG and then upload it as a "photo".

Subject: RE: UK Folk Club Map
From: GUEST,Mr. Red (19 Feb)
Date: 21 Feb 15 - 04:53 PM

OK I got impatient. Chris Rusts Google Map has not shown my submissions.

SO-
I was surprised how easy it was to produce my own, for a limited area of the UK ie the Mid West of England. Though to be fair, most of the hard work (OSGR) has been done long since. It is properly functioning and lists in another tab, but there are improvements needed. Notably you can only invoke one list in another tab until that tab is deleted. And the radius of listing is limited to 20 to 40 Km in increments which is unlikely to widen. The precision is theoretically down to the 1 metre level but PostCodes and mouse positioning makes it more like a Km or 2. Assuming you know where "that" village is on my map. It seems to respond to browser zooming. If anyone cares to give it a good go.

Clickie Folk Map of the Mid West of England.