Tech: DVD Recorders: Are They Obsolete?

Subject: Tech: DVD Recorders: Are They Obsolete?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 21 Feb 15 - 11:03 PM

Subject: Tech: DVD Recorders. Are they obsolete?
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 23 Jan 15 - 10:59 AM

My HDD/DVD recorder has come to the end of its working life and I'm looking to replace it with something similar.

Unfortunately, while there is still no end of HDD recorders on the market - and some of them with massive discs - HDD/DVD recorders as such seem to have become things of the past.

That is unfortunate because, not only do I want to play DVDs from time to time, I also want to save broadcasted programmes without the risk of losing them through hard disc failure or some other catastrophe. In other words I want to copy them to DVD, rather than leave them on the hard disc.

I wonder therefore if other people are encountering these problems and what technology they are using to get round them.

Many anticipatory thanks.

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Subject: RE: Tech: DVD Recorders. Are they obsolete?
From: GUEST,Modette
Date: 23 Jan 15 - 11:09 AM

Fred, Richer Sounds still has a selection.

Richer Sounds

I believe you live in the Liverpool area. There's a branch on Berry Street.

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Subject: RE: Tech: DVD Recorders. Are they obsolete?
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 23 Jan 15 - 11:12 AM

Why do you think that a copied DVD is less likely to fail than a hard disc?

I'd suggest that the opposite is more likely.

A hard disc player with an output that allows connecting an external drive would be my option.

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Subject: RE: Tech: DVD Recorders. Are they obsolete?
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 23 Jan 15 - 11:14 AM

Thanks. I've already looked in the Liverpool branch of Richer Sounds. They have just one model still in their catalogue. It's a Panasonic, priced at around £260. Unless someone can come up with an alternative, I'll probably settle for that one.

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Subject: RE: Tech: DVD Recorders. Are they obsolete?
From: Stanron
Date: 23 Jan 15 - 11:21 AM

DVD recorders/players for computers are well cheap. This was my first search find

optical drives

This is in Manchester but I'm sure Liverpool will have it's equivalent.

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Subject: RE: Tech: DVD Recorders. Are they obsolete?
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 23 Jan 15 - 11:29 AM

Recordable DVDs probably have a much higher failure rate than hard discs. The advantage is of course, that you have the facility to make backup copies.

However, you've set me thinking. A HDD recorder with something like a 1TB drive could probably be got for about £100 less than the said Panasonic, which only has 320GB.

I guess I'll mosey over to Richer Sounds tomorrow and ask about external connectivity.

BTW, for anyone who doesn't know about them, Richer Sounds is a great company with a stock which is both enormous and affordable, and sales staff from whom you can actually get helpful technical advice.

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Subject: RE: Tech: DVD Recorders. Are they obsolete?
From: Newport Boy
Date: 23 Jan 15 - 11:41 AM

Fred - I've just had the same problem. In my case the recorder tuner failed, so I'm still able to transfer my recordings from HDD to DVD.

Having looked around, I've replaced it with a HDD recorder/DVD player. It's not possible to transfer from HDD to DVD, but the machine will take an external USB HDD. I haven't yet had time to test the warnings in the Panasonic manual that the external HDD is registered to the machine and can't be used elsewhere. If correct, I have lost the facility to record from TV and play elsewhere.

When I've transferred what I want on the old machine, I intend to take the HDD out and try it as an external on my computer. If I can find a way of playing the videos, I can then transfer to DVD on the computer.

If that is not possible, I will use a large external HDD to hold backup copies of recordings I don't want to lose.

Phil

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Subject: RE: Tech: DVD Recorders. Are they obsolete?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Jan 15 - 11:48 AM

I'm absolutely with Fred on this. My Panasonic HDD/DVD recorder has been giving great service for years and I didn't realise they were getting hard to find. Might have to buy a spare machine sharpish! :-( I'd always want some way of backing up away from the hard drive.

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Subject: RE: Tech: DVD Recorders. Are they obsolete?
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Jan 15 - 11:50 AM

This is definitely worth a little more googling research....

For instance, the affordable Freeview HUMAX HDR-200T records to it's own internal Hard drive
and/or additional USB HDs, which increases the capacity quite considerably.

The point you need to know is that it can also legally export playable copies
of the standard definition recordings to a computer,
which you can then burn to DVD if you want to.

But it has been disabled from exporting HI Def recordings..

I can say this with certainty, because I own one.

In practical terms, you can record and export anything from BBC4,
but not BBC4 HD.

However, there are forums devoted to developing 'alternative' firmwares to circumvent such restrictions
preventing HD export..
You need to be more technically able than me to attempt this.

So far to my knowledge though, the HDR-200T has still not been hacked.

Though some earlier Humax boxes definitely have been.

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Subject: RE: Tech: DVD Recorders. Are they obsolete?
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Jan 15 - 11:54 AM

oops.... correction : HDR-2000T

http://www.humaxdigital.com/uk/products/product.php?gid=442

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Subject: RE: Tech: DVD Recorders. Are they obsolete?
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Jan 15 - 12:11 PM

Just a further note...

We have most of our home entertainment gear networked via ethernet
powerline adapter plugs.

The 2000T is upstairs.

Annoyingly, the HD export restriction also applies to networking.

Which in practise means, whatever is recorded upstairs can be viewed on the big telly downstairs,
except any HD recordings...!!!!!

Basically defeating the purpose of all the Hi Tech industry promises
of modern Hi Def digital home networking... !!!???

However, our 3 or 4 year old panasonic will network HD
but only to another panasonic product.

.. the miserable wankers...!!!

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Subject: RE: Tech: DVD Recorders. Are they obsolete?
From: GUEST,Modette
Date: 23 Jan 15 - 01:48 PM

Why has my informative and helpful response to Fred's query been deleted from this thread?

Which moderation paradigm did it fail?

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Subject: RE: Tech: DVD Recorders. Are they obsolete?
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Jan 15 - 01:50 PM

one more note while I remember...

The reason it is such a big deal that the 2000T can export standard Def media files,
is because so far media industry fear of rights violations have forced
major hi tech HD recorder manufacturers to mostly lock all recordings
so that they are only playable on the single specific machine they were recorded on.


So it really something fairly positive that the current 2000T does not encrypt
standard def files.

It's worth a google to establish what the state of play with other HD recorders is at the moment ???

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Subject: RE: Tech: DVD Recorders. Are they obsolete?
From: MikeL2
Date: 23 Jan 15 - 02:29 PM

hi Fred

Like you I prefer to download and copy to DVD's. Recently I replaced my 2 Sony DVD recorders with Panasonic Blu Ray recorders and I find them really good quality.

I have Model DMR-BW880 which has a large hard disc and copies to DVD's and Blu Ray Discs.

It has some useful editing facilities that I use all the time.

The extra size of the Blu Ray discs enables many recordings so although they are a bit more expensive the hold far more recordable space.

As for reliability of the discs I have very large libraries of both DVD's & Blu Ray and I have not had any problem with playing them.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

MikeL2

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Subject: RE: Tech: DVD Recorders. Are they obsolete?
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 24 Jan 15 - 07:33 AM

Modette. I wonder at that also. Certainly, there was nothing in your email that I could see anyone taking offense at.

Try contacting Joe Offer via Contact Us on the drop down menu at the head of this page, and asking him to put it back.

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Subject: RE: Tech: DVD Recorders. Are they obsolete?
From: Mr Red
Date: 24 Jan 15 - 08:26 AM

the best MTBF of rotating HDD, CD/DVD or SSD/NOR non-volatile (memory stick) all come in at about 5 years. After that you are on borrowed time. DVD put in a dark fridge might survive longer.
I have seen CD's on sale at about a cup of cofee price (per) that are guaranteed for 100 years - I have purchased DVD's at the same kind of price labeled as "Long Life" (10 years???). And declined some at twice that cost.
The problemo is that what a laser does in millisconds at 800degC - 5 years will do similar at 24 deg C. I was told there are up to 9 layers (some of cyanic origin) that bleed when zapped that produces the change in transmissivity (hides the reflector). That reflector can etch depending on what they put on the barrier layer and what you put over that with your special (ha!) pen/label.

The cloud is safer (E&OE) but not for copyright material.

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Subject: RE: Tech: DVD Recorders. Are they obsolete?
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 24 Jan 15 - 08:31 AM

All forms of recorded music are now obsolete. Only live music has any value at all.

Les
pp The Beech Band live at The Beech this Wednesday and most Wednesdays until we get chucked out again:


Yer Tis

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Subject: RE: Tech: DVD Recorders. Are they obsolete?
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 24 Jan 15 - 11:30 AM

Balls. Absolute crap. How can you listen to Harry Cox or Joe Heaney or Willie Scott or any one of the hundreds of traditional singers from these islands who've gone before, but whose personas live on in their music?

Unless you're a bloody good global traveller, how on earth are you going to hear the music of Mali or Afghanistan or Bulgaria or Central Bolivia, or the Turks and Caicos Islands, except through the medium of recorded music?

Hang on lads, I'll just swing the sloop round and we'll get going up the upper reaches of the Amazon. You never know, if we make Chorlton Cum Hardly by Wednesday evening, we might be in time to make the Floresta Amazônica, sorry, I mean the beech band before they get kicked out - again!

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Subject: RE: Tech: DVD Recorders. Are they obsolete?
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Jan 15 - 12:33 PM

Totally agree, Fred.

But Les is something of an expert at making spectacularly stupid comments,,,

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Subject: RE: Tech: DVD Recorders. Are they obsolete?
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Jan 15 - 04:25 PM

We still usa a VCR/DVD combo here although its use would perhaps be reasonably described as a legacy player.

TV recordings and a number of CDs have gone on to MythTV for a few years now. TV setup is currently coupled to 3 of the 4 channels (other lead on the quad LMB goest to the living room tv) of a TBS6985 and a HDHomerun.

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Subject: RE: Tech: DVD Recorders. Are they obsolete?
From: GUEST,Musket on the piste
Date: 25 Jan 15 - 02:50 AM

for chrissake, nobody let Fred know how little tax Richer Sounds pay through basing their trading arm overseas.....He'll have to buy off Amazon instead!

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Subject: RE: Tech: DVD Recorders. Are they obsolete?
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 25 Jan 15 - 06:04 AM

Richer Sounds don't pay tax? That's a new one on me. Can you furnish further details?

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Subject: RE: Tech: DVD Recorders. Are they obsolete?
From: GUEST,Doc John
Date: 25 Jan 15 - 06:07 AM

I lost hours of still photographs I took because I transferred them to CD/DVD from my hard drive. There is no way to recover them as far as I can tell.
In fact I wrote to Kodak a while back, asking the best way to preserve photographs; they told me that digital copies are both fragile and will become inaccessible as technology develops, which it is doing at quite a pace. They also told me that the best way is to print them on photographic paper and keep the prints protected from light. Well, I suppose they would say that but you can still see photographs taken over a century ago so I guess they were right.
While not going as far as to say 'digital' is rubbish, it has been forced on us unsuspected amateurs too soon.

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Subject: RE: Tech: DVD Recorders. Are they obsolete?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Jan 15 - 06:16 AM

That's right. I have tens of thousands of ohotos on memory cards that I never delete, CDs and DVDS, at least two laptops and a couple of external hard-drives. I really need several weeks of wet weather to sort 'em all out.

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Subject: RE: Tech: DVD Recorders. Are they obsolete?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Jan 15 - 06:17 AM

I forgot to mention my jumble of memory sticks.

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Subject: RE: Tech: DVD Recorders. Are they obsolete?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 25 Jan 15 - 08:47 AM

Photos here use a combination of Mythtv and for management, Digikam

I don't print that often but we have an Epson P50 that can produce what I think are very nice results. I mostly print on to 4x6 glossy when I do.


Got so carried away once that I wrote a couple of Android apps to print to a CUPS server but other circumstances led me to dropping them (although we still use them at home).

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Subject: RE: Tech: DVD Recorders. Are they obsolete?
From: Mr Red
Date: 25 Jan 15 - 09:09 AM

Cloud - though choose yer provider well.

I did read in the New Scientist of a professional photographer who archived on a very good but notsobig provider. The CIA (no less) sequestrated the whole archive because it had been used (unbeknown) by criminals/terrorists. The photographer went pretty high up the food chain (think congressmen) to try to get his archive back. The CIA were never going to put any resources into finding his archive, let alone sift through it to prove he was kosher.

Don't stick your head in the sand - put it in the Clouds!

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Subject: RE: Tech: DVD Recorders. Are they obsolete?
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 25 Jan 15 - 03:06 PM

Ok Mr/Ms Guest: Please don't understate your case,

"Totally agree, Fred.

But Les is something of an expert at making spectacularly stupid comments,,, "

It was a 'joke' but I am ready to accept a very poor one

Best wishes

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Subject: RE: Tech: DVD Recorders. Are they obsolete?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 25 Jan 15 - 09:51 PM

It is hard for me to imagine WHY anyone would, could, want to rehash, view, listen to A THING more than once....much less twice or more.

Life flows and is always created anew.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Fresh is always better than stale. Real is always better than canned.

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Subject: RE: Tech: DVD Recorders. Are they obsolete?
From: GUEST,Tattie Bogle
Date: 26 Jan 15 - 05:06 AM

We still have a Panasonic DVD/VCR/Freeview box, bought with the idea of converting all the old school and am/dram videos to DVD. (In those days you could video your kids' school productions) . But have I done it? NO.Same as all those photos and slides I was going to digitise: only so many hours in the day!

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Subject: RE: Tech: DVD Recorders. Are they obsolete?
From: GUEST,Blandiver (Astray)
Date: 26 Jan 15 - 05:16 AM

Are they obsolete? I guess we'll only know once some nostalgic old folkie writes a song about them.

Never trusted DVD+/-Rs, though I found some I made 10 years back & they played perfectly! Our TV is hooked up to a Freeview PVR thing AND a VHS player for those old Smell of Reeves & Mortimer videos with all the extras that never made it onto DVD.

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Subject: RE: Tech: DVD Recorders. Are they obsolete?
From: Gurney
Date: 27 Jan 15 - 12:47 AM

We have two TV recorders.
A very limited (but cheap) Digistar that has only one-channel and records onto a very tiny drive, but exports via USB onto a thumbdrive and transfers onto DVD readily via computer, and

One of the Panasonic two-channel 360gb HD, self-burning-to-DVD-play-DVDs ones.

Neither is the perfect solution. The Digistar records like the old VCRs did, you have to set channel/start/stop times, but using the Desktop to burn a DVD is a snap. It uses satellite. You can either watch and/or record, but only the same programme.
The Panasonic is touchy about which blanks it prefers and you go from menu to menu when you burn, but works easily with the same-brand TV, and is one-touch recording. It uses the terrestrial aerial. It is pre-Bluray. It is multi-zone for playing DVDs.

I bought the Digistar not realising the limitations and anyway I had a redundant Sky satellite dish. But I can now play one channel and simultaneously record two others. Everything I like is on at the same time.

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Subject: RE: Tech: DVD Recorders. Are they obsolete?
From: Mr Red
Date: 27 Jan 15 - 04:02 AM

It is hard for me to imagine WHY anyone would, could, want to rehash, view, listen to A THING more than once....much less twice or more.

1) because a video has some nugget we are likely to forget. Documentaries, our illustrious appearance on TV et al.
2) because we are communicative, altruistic, thoughtful souls. We might think of people who would benefit from the video. Or just KNOW the subject is ripe for a future acquaintance. EG a documentary of Cajun music and I dance a lot including Cajun (think "moves", slo-mo etc). Tall ships and shanties, authentic singing. It all takes repetition. A friend who is an MS sufferer - not video yet but loadsa New Scientist articles referring thereto.
3) because at the demographic age of Folkies we are not going to remember every joke. Even if we did I would always still find certain things funny, like Gerrard Hoffnung's "Debate at the Oxford Union" featuring the sequence that inspired the song "Paddy's Sick Note". Don't we enjoy the SONG being repeated?(other hilarious songs are available)
4) because some of us are information junkies. see cresby.com for glimps of the syndrome. Minds like sponges are not reserved for pre-adolesents- despite their obvious spare capacity.
5) because we can
6) because its there
7) other reasons are available E&OE.

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Subject: RE: Tech: DVD Recorders. Are they obsolete?
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 27 Jan 15 - 05:38 AM

Thanks Red. You put that most eloquently. Why anyone would want to throw everything away after just one viewing is beyond me. I agree. There's not much comes out of the broadcast media which is noble or informative or tells us something about ourselves. But when something important does come up, what the hell is wrong with wanting to preserve a copy?

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Subject: RE: Tech: DVD Recorders. Are they obsolete?
From: GUEST, topsie
Date: 27 Jan 15 - 06:15 AM

Sorry Mr Red, but no, I don't enjoy the song being repeated. I didn't even enjoy it the first time - it ignores/destroys the perfect timing of the original Oxford Union debate and thus is always a sad disappointment.

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Subject: RE: Tech: DVD Recorders. Are they obsolete?
From: Mr Red
Date: 27 Jan 15 - 04:33 PM

there is always the original, more comprehensive. But it is just not done in Folk Clubs. The song is a surrogate, however flawed (not much IMNSHO).
When Cosmotheka were performing they did the same songs, the same jokes and you never lost money booking them. So yes, there are people out there that like the same old jokes. It is somehow warm and comforting to those that like it.
Me? I like dancing, and there is little that is new (to me) in the genres I participate in, but that is my cosy and cuddly thing.

No need for sorry. Different strokes for different Folks.

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Subject: RE: Tech: DVD Recorders. Are they obsolete?
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jan 15 - 04:37 PM

From Pat Cooksey's website:

It is generally assumed that I based this song on Gerard Hoffnung's wonderful address to THE OXFORD UNION in 1958. This is not correct. The recitation in a more simple form dates back to the English Music Hall's of the 1920's and was printed in the Readers Digest in 1937 in the form of a story.