BS: voting? (UK)

Subject: BS: voting?
From: GUEST,achmelvich
Date: 30 Mar 15 - 02:54 PM

firstly - why are there so few threads in this section?

anyone intending to vote in the upcoming elections? i'm going for labour in the general - not with any enthusiasm but there is a tory threat and a lively ukip thing (nick griffin is an mep for west cumbria) In the local election i will vote green -for me! - but wish that (as it used to be) cumbria was in scotland so i could vote snp for both. i guess that most folk outside of s.east would be voting for snp -or a more progressive labour party, given the chance.....

lets just hope that labour win with snp support, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: voting?
From: Ed T
Date: 30 Mar 15 - 03:15 PM

I always was puzzled by governments that propose compulsory voting. There seems to be so many confounding issues associated, that make it seems unworkable (or, of of marginal value) to me.

Subject: RE: BS: voting?
From: DMcG
Date: 30 Mar 15 - 03:15 PM

I will be voting but don't publish my intentions. Having moved a bit less than four years ago I am, for the first time in my life, in a marginal (Southampton Itchen, 192 majority to labour last time.) I anticipate rather more visitors and attention than in previous elections.

I have emailed questions to several candidates but not had a reply yet. Odd. Maybe my questions are too inconvenient

Subject: RE: BS: voting?
From: GUEST,achmelvich
Date: 30 Mar 15 - 03:20 PM

nah - you will find, like anywhere, that you rarely get a canvasser but may get some leaflets. a sad part of our system where the vote only counts in about 60 constituencies, dmcg - yours may be one,so you could have a chance to enjoy the arguments.

Subject: RE: BS: voting?
From: DMcG
Date: 30 Mar 15 - 03:30 PM

Oh, I didn't expect #personal# visits. More lots of the (ahem) great and good turning up in the constituency for a photo stop

Subject: RE: BS: voting?
From: akenaton
Date: 30 Mar 15 - 03:35 PM

I'll definitely be voting SNP, the polls say they will sweep the boards in Scotland. Traditional labour voters are deserting in droves.

On "progressive" policies, the economy is in such a poor condition that no matter who gets into power, real living standards look sure to fall all over the UK.
We all want a better health service, but it look sure to get worse unless the better off allow themselves to be squeezed just as the poorer people are.

People in Scotland are beginning to look at a different style of government, where contribution to society is based on ones ability to contribute. Time to level the economic playing field so that some real equality is achieved. I am sure that it will not be easy after independence, but the SNP will soon provide the people of Scotland the power to punch well above their weight, Westminster will make it difficult, they will do nothing to help and as I said already, a TORY LABOUR, LIB DEM coalition will certainly be a possibility to deny Scotland freedom.

Subject: RE: BS: voting?
From: GUEST,achmelvich
Date: 30 Mar 15 - 03:38 PM

at the last election, after being flooded out i was staying in carlisle for several months. it's a labour/tory marginal and there were a few stalls in the town centre on a few saturdays before the vote. it felt like something quite old fashioned strolling between them, i enjoyed some good arguments. with reference to another thread - my guilty pleasure at the time was a good discussion with the bnp bloke. far more intelligent and principled than labour or tory candidates. we hated each other's arguments but were able to respect each other and laugh about it. taught me a lot

Subject: RE: BS: voting?
From: akenaton
Date: 30 Mar 15 - 03:48 PM

Get ready for the sticks an' stones Ach   :0)

Subject: RE: BS: voting?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Mar 15 - 05:18 PM

My opinion is that there has never been a more important time to keep out the Tories. I live in a Tory-LibDem marginal. All other parties in my constituency are more or less wiped out every time. If I vote on principle, for Labour that would be for me, I might as well be voting Tory. There is a real danger of this seat going Tory this time. I voted LibDem last time to keep out the Tories and the LibDem man got in, but I got the Tories anyway. I have a hunch that that will not happen again. Principle dictates that I vote Labour, but the infinitely bigger principle is that I will do anything (bar vote fascist) to keep out the Tories. If I lived in Scotland, I might be inclined to vote for the most progressive party, the SNP. But every seat the SNP takes from Labour makes a Tory victory more likely and I can't think of anything worse for Scotland than that. The SNP would be the best party for the Scots, no doubt, but that means next to Jack Shit if the Tories are in power. If I lived in Scotland I'd vote Labour, my second choice in Scotland. Here in North Cornwall I think I'm going to have to vote LibDem again.

Subject: RE: BS: voting? (UK)
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 31 Mar 15 - 01:44 AM

My part of the south west - makes no difference who I vote for
the tories always get back in.

despairing innit !!!???

Similar dilemma to Steve, I want to vote Labour on futile principle,
but have always voted strategically for the Liberals...

2110 the tories only beat the libs by a narrow margin.
Labour gained barely a quarter of the tory vote.
Now that we know how treacherous the libs can be,
who knows this time round how many labour supporters will actually vote labour ?

What may be an interesting factor is last year's bureaucratic exercise
to force everyone to re-register for their right to vote.

Town Hall demanded my mrs provide her passport to prove her identity
at least twice before the system recognised her.
A town hall worker admitted there was a glitch in the system that
was automatically disqualifying many married women
until they made the effort to prove their ID beyond question.

f@ck knows how many previous voters have now fallen off the register
for whatever reasons and are now ineligible to vote...???

Makes you wonder; hard to determine if it's a deliberate conspiracy, or just fukwitted inept bureaucracy !!!???

Subject: RE: BS: voting? (UK)
From: GUEST,Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Mar 15 - 01:55 AM

Harrogate and Ripon is blue through and through. Hope the greens make a good showing and reduce the majority considerably. I work on the basis that whoever you vote for, the government always get in.

Subject: RE: BS: voting? (UK)
From: akenaton
Date: 31 Mar 15 - 02:25 AM

What a discouraging choice between the Tories, Liberals, and Labour, they are all slaves to the system....when in power they all behave in exactly the same way.

Greens are not really a party....more of a tiny protest group, but there are better ways of protesting.

Subject: RE: BS: voting? (UK)
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 31 Mar 15 - 02:26 AM

My old mates a fair distance away along the M5 in Bridgwater
are proud to live in a west country town
with a history of ferociously pro labour & unions activism.
It's a rare socialist oasis in an arrid tory dominated region.
But the local conservative MP still always wins...

Subject: RE: BS: voting? (UK)
From: Megan L
Date: 31 Mar 15 - 03:06 AM

Why bother voting for any of them they are all only in it for what they can get. If I am at home when someone tries to put election junk through my door I make them take it back.

Subject: RE: BS: voting? (UK)
From: Musket
Date: 31 Mar 15 - 03:10 AM

Akenaton forgot to mention SNP when he gave a list of slaves to the system. Although their commitment to prosperity through equality and promised low taxation for large multinationals to bring inward investment is commendable.

However, down here we swing between the two parties. Tory have it at present but won it last time from Labour. As an MP, he has been visible, personally pushed a few things I like such as an EU funded rural broadband partnership advertised at inward investment and better transport access to a large industrial estate that needed a kick-start.

That said, I will search for the donkey with the red rosette and vote accordingly. After all, you get a constituency MP as a bonus. It is a presidential election these days and has been since Th*tcher.

Subject: RE: BS: voting? (UK)
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 31 Mar 15 - 03:33 AM

I guess most people will respect the years and years of organisation, struggle and and protest that got us the vote for some men, then most men then all men and finally all women.

Vote Labour. Yes I know we have done bad things and we get things wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: voting? (UK)
From: GUEST,Ian
Date: 31 Mar 15 - 03:59 AM

In Colne Valley it's very close between the three main parties with Labour tending to be weakest. Before constituency changes it was Liberal for a long time . Last two have being Tories. I support Labour but voted Liberal last time as I thought it was the best chance of keeping the Tories out,but it failed.

I don't know what to do this time after the Liberals betrayed us and put the Tories in. I hope the Liberals crash and burn in the election as their previous actions deserve. I hope enough other people vote labour.

Subject: RE: BS: voting? (UK)
From: GUEST,Blandiver (Astray)
Date: 31 Mar 15 - 04:13 AM

Greens are not really a party....more of a tiny protest group, but there are better ways of protesting.

They're still pulling a lot of Labour support, especially membership. Depressing. I think the Green Party are a Tory plot to scupper the opposition. If they were a tiny protest group, I'd probably join - otherwise they're a deluded bunch of vote sappers for disaffected middle-class Labour supporters...

Vote Labour. Yes I know we have done bad things and we get things wrong.

Heartening stuff, Les! I agree.

Subject: RE: BS: voting? (UK)
From: GUEST,Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Mar 15 - 04:24 AM

Trouble is in such a safe Tory seat as Skipton and Ripon (Sorry, got the name wrong last time) the choices are either Tory or a protest vote. Since 1983 when the constituency was created, it has been a Tory stronghold. The prior constituency, with slightly different boundaries, was the same. Last time the Labour vote was 10%. So, as it is impossible to get the buggers out here, the protest swing is the only important factor.

Subject: RE: BS: voting? (UK)
From: DMcG
Date: 31 Mar 15 - 04:27 AM

Interesting comment about passport verification there, punkfolk
A friend of mine is on disability benefits and was saying on Friday she would love to visit France even if just a day trip but cannot justify the cost of a passport on her income. I wonder if your town hall would deny her a vote

Subject: RE: BS: voting? (UK)
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 31 Mar 15 - 04:32 AM

Vote CAMRA!

Don't tell me they failed to put up any candidates,   again!


Or is that nice Mr Farage standing for the CAMRA party?

Subject: RE: BS: voting? (UK)
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 31 Mar 15 - 04:42 AM

How can Labour loose with friends like these

Subject: RE: BS: voting? (UK)
From: akenaton
Date: 31 Mar 15 - 05:25 AM

All will be revealed when the Scots are in a position to sue for independence, they will be vilified by all the Unionist parties including Labour.

I'm sorry, but the labour party are shackled to a sinking ship...and it is their own fault for abandoning socialism as an ideal, simply because the media made Blair electable.

We need to stop banging on about personal rights and concentrate on what we can all contribute to society.....the wealth gap must be closed and if that means revamping the system , so be it.
Too many people without work, too many EU immigrants, too many short term contracts, too wasteful a lifestyle for too many people.

A new Scottish government will be forced to address these important issues when they come to power.

Is it not about time you people who remember the principles Labour was built on, stopped clinging onto the belief that a Messiah will appear?.....if one does, he will very soon morph into Mr Blair.

Subject: RE: BS: voting? (UK)
From: Stu
Date: 31 Mar 15 - 05:30 AM

Not much point in me voting as if they stick a blue rosette on a turd here it'd get in.

I do vote though, and seeing as I live in the UK and can't vote SNP I'll probably vote Green. Labour, Tories and LibDumbs are all facets of the same corporate-eastablishment-media axis and are a total waste of time. We need principled people in parliament, not shills.

Subject: RE: BS: voting? (UK)
From: GUEST,Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Mar 15 - 07:35 AM

Pretty much the boat I am in, Stu. I think the sooner that party politics takes a back seat, or at least the party whip is removed, the better. As I said earlier, if the SNP do support a minority Labour government they do so with the benefit of being able to pick and chose the policies they support. The same should have been true of the LibDems with the Tories but sadly they decided to sleep with the devil instead. Oddly enough, considering the behavior of some on here, I still tend to trust the Scots more and hope, if it comes about, they will do the right thing :-)

Subject: RE: BS: voting? (UK)
From: BrendanB
Date: 31 Mar 15 - 07:54 AM

For the first time in several years the constituency in which I live could end up with something other than a Lib Dem. (We have a very popular costituency MP but he's retiring).
The Green Party looked interesting but I have connections with Brighton in Sussex which has the only Green local authority in the country and they appear to have been an unmitigated disaster.
I find it hard to predict who might get in but I fear that the Tories may be in with a shout. Sadly, I think a labour victory is unlikely. I suspect it will be a race between Lib Dem and Tory, although the record of the Lib Dems in government may work against their candidate. I do not know if there is a UKIP candidate, I sincerely hope not.

Subject: RE: BS: voting? (UK)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Mar 15 - 08:16 AM

and if that means revamping the system , so be it.

What system and what revamping, or is this just empty words?

Is it not about time you people who remember the principles Labour was built on, stopped clinging onto the belief that a Messiah will appear?....

Who are you talking to? "You people"? A list, please.

Subject: RE: BS: voting? (UK)
From: akenaton
Date: 31 Mar 15 - 08:38 AM

Interesting point about "chapping on doors", the SNP with over 100000 members have an army of canvassers primed up and ready to hit the streets.

Steve, the present system is based on profit making, hence the huge gap between rich and poor, I would hope that the new Scotland would extend the scope and strength of public services rather than encourage personal enrichment...a completely new concept after years of rabid capitalism.
Most native Scots are proud of their country I think that the removal of WMDs from our soil, tackling drug problems, narrowing the wealth gap and improving public services would get a terrific response from our people.

There would also need to be regulation of house sales to overcome the present situation where absentee landlords from the South deprive our young folks of an affordable home.

Time to wield the big stick, we need contributors to the new Scotland, not drones

Subject: RE: BS: voting? (UK)
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 31 Mar 15 - 09:00 AM

If the SNP supported a minority Labour Govt would it be fair to ask for policies not in and probably against LP policies?

If the Greens supported a minority Labour Govt would it be fair to ask for policies not in and probably against LP policies?

Subject: RE: BS: voting? (UK)
From: GUEST,Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Mar 15 - 09:10 AM

Economics 101

It's not as simple as some people would have us believe. There is no magic wand that will remove capitalism as the major communist powers that were have proven over the last 100 years. Capitalism is not evil per se but the people running things do not seem to understand basic economic and human concepts.

To be honest I have always said that anyone who believes they can run a country should be banned from doing so on the basis of diminished responsibility. If we had the likes of Branson, Musk and even the old grouch himself, Sugar, having a serious say in the economy we may fare better. We may not either and they would need to be accountable but, as I say, there are no magic wands.

Subject: RE: BS: voting? (UK)
From: akenaton
Date: 31 Mar 15 - 11:05 AM

It's not about magic wands, it's about convincing people that they must be satisfied and happy with less personally.
Financial aspiration IS evil.....it makes people ignore their consciences....if they ever had them.

Its the job of a good government to inspire people to be less selfish, not more so.

It is very simple..... it's getting automatons like us to listen which is difficult. We are programmed by the system to value only money, when money is the least "valuable" thing on earth.

Subject: RE: BS: voting? (UK)
From: akenaton
Date: 31 Mar 15 - 11:13 AM

Sorry Les, don't understand your question.

Subject: RE: BS: voting? (UK)
From: GUEST,Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Mar 15 - 11:17 AM

it's about convincing people that they must be satisfied and happy with less personally.

Only certain people. Those on minimum wage, those on benefits and those who are less fortunate have enough to put up with without being told they must manage on less. If 90% of the wealth is owned by 10% of the population there is little the lowest earners can do but it is those who keep being told they must tighten their belts. There is nothing wrong with financial aspiration as long as it is used compassionately. I am firmly in the middle ground and I would be than happy with a penny or two on my upper rate. As long as it goes to help those less fortunate and not to line the pockets of those who already have too much. There is nothing wrong with capitalism as long as the excesses are curbed and the field is leveled a little as the article I link explained.

Subject: RE: BS: voting? (UK)
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 31 Mar 15 - 11:29 AM

The SNP would have a bargaining position to start from but they are quite used to getting what they can and not always what they want. So I imagine they'd get by with a measure of what they want rather than risk actually bringing a potential Labour gvt down. I'd think they would insist on full delivery of the Vow re what was promised re more powers for the Scottish parliament. Salmond famously said they'd hold their feet to the fire over that. Labour could hardly say it isn't their policy when Milliband signed up for it and got Gordon Brown to trumpet it.

They would probably see themselves as perhaps influencing Labour economic policy (ie large sections of Labour MPs would agree with the SNP anyway) rather than actually writing it. Rather like the Lib Dems suggest Tory policy is not Lib Dem policy but they had a influence and restrained the Tories a bit. Except even if offered, which it wouldn't be anyway, I don't think the SNP would accept gvt posts. I think they'd much prefer to be seen as a party trying to influence Labour. Try and take some credit where they can and shy away from the blame for unpopular policies.

Likewise they would look for a Labour gvt not to spend billions on the new Trident which may be a step too far for Labour. Don't think that would be a deal buster despite all the rhetoric. The Nats would probably just blame Labour for being intransigent in spending on bombs rather than bairns and say it would be pointless forcing the issue as the alternative Tory gvt supports the renewal anyway. Same re the House of Lords being abolished. SNP policy which would be blamed on Labour if it didn't materialize.

Most of all they wouldn't want to do anything to upset their seemingly massive lead in the Holyrood polls for the next Scottish election. So I think some commentators (mostly Tory) who say they will just come to intentionally cause mayhem are seriously wide of the mark.

Plus it remains to be seen actually how many there will be anyway. Sturgeon is being very coy and reminding people that even 12 or 13 MPs would be a success in that it is more than they've ever had before. They seemingly believe (bar some big sea change) that should get in the 30s perhaps even to 40 seats. If they got 50 or more I'm sure they'd be over the moon but they know that the people suggesting that will happen are talking about a uniform swing across the country - and it doesn't necessarily happen like that. Plus for instance the Electoral Calculus site has for my constituency (which once was solidly Lib Dem) the Nats on 34.8% and the Tories on 32.4% which is well within any margin of error. Yes they have the likelyhood of an SNP win at 52% and the Tories only about 37%. I honestly don't see how they get to that!

Subject: RE: BS: voting? (UK)
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 31 Mar 15 - 11:43 AM

"If the SNP supported a minority Labour Govt would it be fair to ask for policies not in and probably against LP policies?"

Of course it'd be fair to ask. After all the SNP have a responsibility to their supporters who voted for SNP policies. Whether their wishes would be granted or not is a different matter. Labour would still be the dominant partner!

What is fair is that the SNP are telling the Scottish electorate that if they are in a position to they will support by some means a Labour gvt; they are saying that they will vote against any Tory Queen's Speech; so if you like that vote for us! If not vote for someone else. That is much fairer than what happened in my constituency last time when Michael Moore the Lib Dem candidate told potential SNP and Labour voters to vote for him instead because he was the only alternative to the Tories in this area. Then his party went into coalition with same said Tories and Moore took a Cabinet post as Scottish Secretary in same said gvt. That was not fair!!!

And unbelievably the Lid Dems are using the exact same argument here this time. Saying past Westminster elections show they are the only possible alternative to the Tories here. Despite them being third in the polls and despite the coming a poor third in the Holyrood vote here. They must think people are genuinely fools.

Subject: RE: BS: voting? (UK)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 31 Mar 15 - 12:14 PM

Breathe deeply Richard - and agree with Mither. Hold nose and vote Labour. ANYTHING to keep the self-servatives out. Maybe in 5 years time Left Unity will have an electable party together - but don't hold your breath, there are some real axe-grinders on their facebook pages!

The "feminists" who rationalise transphobia, and those who wish to disenfranchise sex workers, the ones who think that sex is a male plot against women - they're all there!

Subject: RE: BS: voting? (UK)
From: Musket
Date: 31 Mar 15 - 12:18 PM

I fear some SNP voters, judging by the confused rambling by one person on here, don't seem to know what the SNP policies are Allan...

Both "equality leading to prosperity" and "tax breaks for multinationals who bring inward investment" are good, sound SNP policies, yet seem to be derided by an SNP voter here.

Never mind, I'm sure they are politicians and don't mind where the votes come from so long as they do. I'm sure they, just like any other party, will disappoint some who believe in them for reasons they would rather not be associated with..

I don't know if McMusket has said how he will be voting, as I haven't been following everything about Scotland on these threads lately, but the dilemma of a party that puts equality into practice and is proud of their championing LBGT issues is something I'm sure he is interested in, but a party that thinks Scotland voted how it did because they were taken in by English promises?

Wow.. SNP do sometimes arrogantly think they know better than the electorate, and in case anybody missed it, Scotland doesn't want independence.

Mind you, I am happy with SNP. I get invited to meetings for those of us who invest in Scotland, (not much in my case, just a few dozen holiday lets, student lets etc) and we get wined, dined and thankfully not 69'd by them, together with incentives to provide further investment.

You see, people can complain about the system all they wish, but it would be far better to see how the system can work better. Business pays for social infrastructure, and without it? Even North Korea sell products on the international market in order to feed their people. Sanctions against rogue dictators are usually commercial, because you need business in order to achieve anything.

Sadly, the system is broke, and to some degree, always was. But in the same way that a large company used to not be concerned about who runs a council because they had factories, shops etc in other towns and counties, multinationals don't feel constrained by parochial affairs such as country level.

Not only a good reason to remain in The EU, which has critical mass, but also to ensure out elected members remember the world is smaller now, and little England or little Scotland is irrelevant. World economics pay for the pensions, social care, NHS and security. Any party candidate who thinks it is still 1952 and we still have an Empire to fall back on is unfit for office. Yet Tory and UKIP candidates seem to think the world owes us a living. Labour are fuzzy about where the money is coming from but at least have good ideas how to raise living standards and Lib Dem are a wounded lion of the old whigs having their carcass pulled at by hyenas.

Hopefully...

(Greens? I am still a non executive director of a manufacturing company I used to be MD of in Brighton, and the Greens frankly scare me....)

I'll vote Labour as I said, but will scrutinise closely what the parties are saying about NHS. Whatever they promise, they'll not fund it and as someone who has tried for the last fifteen years or so to turn their bloody promises into reality, I'm glad I've just about retired from it..

Subject: RE: BS: voting? (UK)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Mar 15 - 12:19 PM

I would hope that the new Scotland would extend the scope and strength of public services rather than encourage personal enrichment...a completely new concept after years of rabid capitalism.
Most native Scots are proud of their country I think that the removal of WMDs from our soil, tackling drug problems, narrowing the wealth gap and improving public services would get a terrific response from our people.

And if the SNP triumphantly wipes out Labour in Scotland, you won't get any of that, because we would get five more years of Cameron. How hunkydory for the Scots that would be, eh? Not saying that means that the people shouldn't vote SNP. Just think it's important to keep on apprising the Scots of what they might be letting themselves in for.

Subject: RE: BS: voting? (UK)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 31 Mar 15 - 01:38 PM

Oh, comfy now, Mither has reverted to being a stinking capitalist.

Subject: RE: BS: voting? (UK)
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 31 Mar 15 - 03:50 PM

I will be pleased and proud to vote for our excellent Tory candidate. The constant bickering from trouble making shit stirring bitches in the Croydon area beggars belief.

Subject: RE: BS: voting? (UK)
From: GUEST,Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Mar 15 - 04:21 PM

I am sure your party are proud of you, Bonzo.

Subject: RE: BS: voting? (UK)
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 31 Mar 15 - 05:09 PM

"but a party that thinks Scotland voted how it did because they were taken in by English promises? Wow.. SNP do sometimes arrogantly think they know better than the electorate, and in case anybody missed it, Scotland doesn't want independence."

Various things there. First of all the use of "English" which I think is wrong. Unionist or Westminster would be better usage. I mean Gordon Brown isn't English is he? Some on the Yes side way overestimate the Vow but I think it isn't sensible to dismiss it as of no consequence either. Facts are that the Unionists insisted there was no question on further devolution on the paper despite the Nats being willing to have it on there. It was to be either in or out the union. Any further devolution would be discussed after the referendum. That was until the polls were neck and neck just prior to the vote. So all three unionist leaders, with Brown as spokesmen, suddenly promise much further powers to Scotland in the wake of a No vote. Thus there was to be guaranteed further devolution without even a vote - even though the Scottish Tory leader had said there was a line in the sand. No more powers. It is absurd to think that didn't swing some people. It didn't need to swing that many. 20 people in a room then 11 had voted No and 9 voted Yes. It would only have taken the promise of devolution to have swung one out of the 11 No voters to make it a stalemate.

Lastly yes it is true that Scotland didn't vote for independence but various things there. The SNP are not heading to Westminster to claim a mandate for Scottish independence anyway. They are heading to Westminster to among other things ensure the further powers are delivered. Whether individual Scots want independence or not is by the by - the facts are that when it comes to fighting for Scotland's interests the Nats are trusted more by the Scottish population as a whole than any of the other parties are.

Likewise it is true that the Nats lost the referendum but it is also true that they are now in a stronger position than they were prior to the referendum debate. The debate started with Yes on about 30% on most polls whereas it finished on 45% a 50% growth in support. The membership of the party has rocketed with them now having by far the biggest membership. The facts of the matter are that the core support for independence is now far stronger than it was even 2 years ago and age demographics is a big threat to the unions slender lead. So the issue, even if on the back burner for the moment can't be dismissed so easily. The No side can't just sit back and say "we won" rather they need to win the hearts and minds of Scots under the age of 65!

Subject: RE: BS: voting? (UK)
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 31 Mar 15 - 05:22 PM

"And if the SNP triumphantly wipes out Labour in Scotland, you won't get any of that, because we would get five more years of Cameron"

I don't think that is necessarily so. Labour MPs are potentially being replaced by Nat MPs not Tory or Lib dem MPs. The Nats have said they would vote against any Tory Queen's Speech and offer support to Labour. The Lib Dems look like losing all their Scottish seats bar one so the present coalition seats in Scotland will be greatly reduced by about 10 seats approx whilst the potential anti coalition gvt block looks like greatly increasing by that said number.

Subject: RE: BS: voting? (UK)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 31 Mar 15 - 05:32 PM

Croydon North will beyond doubt stay Labour. Suck it up Bonzo.

Croydon South you could put a conservative rosette on a pig (a fairly commonplace occurrence) and it would get elected.

Croydon Central will be more interesting. It could well go Labour as UKIP pressures the core vote for ignorance and a return to the 1800s in the conservative party; and as people realise how much poorer Scumeron has made most people other than the top 5%. Some pollsters so predict.

Croydon Council is Labour.

Subject: RE: BS: voting? (UK)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Mar 15 - 05:50 PM

It's all in the arithmetic, Allan. Without a considerable number of Scottish seats Labour won't get anywhere near a majority. Unless they are the largest single party by a good few, we're going to get five more years of the same.

Subject: RE: BS: voting? (UK)
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 31 Mar 15 - 06:11 PM

Yeagh but Labour not getting an overall majority is not the same as another 5 years of Cameron. In truth neither party is likely to get a majority. But the way the seats look like panning out in Scotland suits a potential Lab-Nat group much more than it does a renewed Tory-LibDem grouping.

In the last election the current coalition got 98 seats more than Labour and the SNP did combined. If the Lib Dems do lose the predicted 10 Scottish seats than that instantly drops to 78 seats a massive 20% or so change from only 8% of the population. Then there is the Lib Dem collapse in England along with the swing from Tory to Labour since last election. ie The Tories had about a 7% lead last election whilst in BBCs poll of polls the two main parties are neck and neck so far.

So Labour are trying to say in Scotland that vote SNP and we have no chance of getting a majority and you may well get the Tories but they have two problems with that. Firstly none of the gains with the possible exception of my own constituency have any chance of being Tory gains. Scots who vote SNP know the Nats will oppose the Tories in Westminster just as much as any Labour MP would do. Secondly people who vote SNP don't want Labour to have a majority.

Subject: RE: BS: voting? (UK)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Mar 15 - 06:22 PM

I hope you're right. {Scary face emoticon}

Subject: RE: BS: voting? (UK)
From: Musket
Date: 01 Apr 15 - 08:15 AM

I've always been a capitalist, Bridge. There again, I've never voted Tory.

In fact, I have always voted Labour.

How's about you?   

By the way. The term capitalist isn't described well on these threads. After all, I am a Socialist too. When your balls eventuality drop, you'll realise they are not incompatible. A good social policy to raise standards for all requires to be paid for.

Subject: RE: BS: voting? (UK)
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 01 Apr 15 - 08:23 AM

Around here people are moving from Labour to the Greens because Labour is not declaring against fracking.

Subject: RE: BS: voting? (UK)
From: GUEST,Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Apr 15 - 08:24 AM

I'm pretty sure that is what I was trying to say too. Maybe I am Musket as well! :-D