Songs on Poldark - authenticity?

Subject: Songs on Poldark - authenticity?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 05 Apr 15 - 09:13 PM

Here's an email I received. We don't even have a furnace up here in the Sierra Foothills, and we certainly don't watch television. I have no idea what a Poldark is, but the Infallible Internet says it's a television series. Can somebody answer this nice person's question?

I am wondering if the songs (especially the one Demelza sings at
Christmas I'd pluck a fair rose bud) are real and, if so, their names so I can find more about them from Cecil Sharp House indexes.
Thanks.

Best Wishes
Alison

And thanks from me, too.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: Songs on Poldark - authenticity?
From: RTim
Date: 05 Apr 15 - 09:45 PM

♪ I'd pluck a fair rose for my love ♪
♪ I'd pluck a red rose blowing ♪
♪ Love's in my heart ♪
♪ A-trying so to prove ♪
♪ What your heart's knowing ♪
♪ I'd pluck a finger on a thorn ♪
♪ I'd pluck a finger bleeding ♪
♪ Red is my heart ♪
♪ Wounded and forlorn ♪
♪ And your heart needing ♪
♪ I'd hold a finger to my tongue ♪
♪ I'd hold a finger waiting ♪
♪ My heart is sore ♪
♪ Until it joins in song ♪
♪ Wi' your heart mating. ♪

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzELZDS7Ioc


I have no idea where this comes from - but it is very good!

Tim Radford

Subject: RE: Songs on Poldark - authenticity?
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 05 Apr 15 - 10:45 PM

The entire female population of Britain is too engrossed gazing at Poldark's 6 pack
to care about folk songs...

There might not be any incentive for UK blokes to watch this show
unless the music is really good
or Demelza shows more than she did in the 1970s version...

Subject: RE: Songs on Poldark - authenticity?
From: GUEST,Arkie
Date: 05 Apr 15 - 10:55 PM

Poldark was one of my favorite series on PBS but it ran so long ago that I have no memory of the music. The setting was in Cornwall tin mining country after the American Revolution and Ross Poldark, a British Army officer had returned from the war.

Subject: RE: Songs on Poldark - authenticity?
From: Don Firth
Date: 06 Apr 15 - 01:51 AM

In the late Seventies, Barbara and I followed the Poldark series, starring Robin Ellis as Ross Poldark and Angahrad Rees as Demelza, along with many other fine actors and actresses.

We're looking forward to this remake of the series with eagerness and some trepidation, in hopes that it measures up to the excellence of the previous series.

I, too, can't really recall music in the series. It ran quite long, and I understand the TV series was base on a series of Poldark novels.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Songs on Poldark - authenticity?
From: Splott Man
Date: 06 Apr 15 - 03:15 AM

A new series of Poldark is currently on TV.
I think the song in question is from the original book, written by the author- Winston Graham - though he may have sourced the idea from the tradition, and the setting was by Mike O'Connor , a much-loved member of the present-day Cornish folk and story-telling community.
Please, Catters, correct me if I'm wrong.

Splott Man

Subject: RE: Songs on Poldark - authenticity?
From: GUEST,Mike O'Connor
Date: 06 Apr 15 - 04:32 AM

On Poldark, Mammoth Screen worked very hard to make the music as authentic as possible; they worked with me and Merv and Alison Davey to try and achieve that. The dance music is from a Thompson family MS and an MS from Morval House of the late 18th century; the choreography likewise. Many of the extras in dance scenes are members of the Cornish Dance Society.

Winston Graham quotes some folk songs in his books - we used authentic tunes for those. We added a couple of snippets of other Cornish folk songs (e.g. The Keenly Lode' in episode 3). At a couple of points Winston wrote lyrics intended to sound like folk song to achieve a dramatic purpose in the tale. 'I d' pluck a fair rose is one of those', this lyric appears in a couple of the books. I wrote the music.

At the beginning of episode 8 we use another song of mine, I wrote words and music of that one. Anne Dudley is the main composer and wrote the fine sweeping melody that opens the show.

All the best

Mike

Subject: RE: Songs on Poldark - authenticity?
From: Noreen
Date: 06 Apr 15 - 06:13 AM

Thanks for the information "from the horse's mouth", Mike!
Wonderful stuff.
This series will be remembered for a very long time.

Subject: RE: Songs on Poldark - authenticity?
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 06 Apr 15 - 08:30 AM

The two books would seem to be
The Stranger from the Sea  and a longer version in
Ross Poldark: A Novel of Cornwall 1783 - 1787 
(I can't copy and paste from them on my tablet)

Subject: RE: Songs on Poldark - authenticity?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 06 Apr 15 - 10:27 AM

Not really watched the programme but by accident caught the 'fair rose' song, and I also enjoyed it. Graham may have written it but it is well in the tradition and the period for such songs. Not sure about the 'I'd pluck a finger' lines, but the period writers didn't always make sense themselves.

Subject: RE: Songs on Poldark - authenticity?
From: Murpholly
Date: 06 Apr 15 - 12:25 PM

I haven't researched the song but as a folk dance fan I can say that the latest serial is using traditional music to traditional dances that my husband and I dance regularly at our Playford (and similar) sessions.
The books were a terrifically long series and they are zooming through them in this adaptation at a great rate of knots.

Subject: RE: Songs on Poldark - authenticity?
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 06 Apr 15 - 01:31 PM

Thanks for your post, Mike O'Connor. I'm looking forward to the new series. I seem to remember the character Demelza playing a harpsichord (or some type of keyboard ) and singing a love song in the original series in one scene.

Subject: RE: Songs on Poldark - authenticity?
From: GUEST,Dave
Date: 07 Apr 15 - 06:14 AM

In this one she plays one note on a harp then sings it a-capella. No mean achievement for a young actress not actually billed as a singer on imdb or wikipedia or anywhere else that I can see. Its a tremendously powerful scene.

Subject: RE: Songs on Poldark - authenticity?
From: NOSILAH
Date: 07 Apr 15 - 07:43 AM

Thanks for your replies. Does anyone know of any West Country songs that have any similar lyrics to this one? Or tune? Reminds me a bit of Julie Christie in far From the Madding Crowd.

♪ I'd pluck a fair rose for my love ♪
♪ I d' pluck a red rose blowing ♪
♪ Love's in my heart ♪
♪ A-trying so to prove ♪
♪ What your heart's knowing ♪
♪ I d' pluck a finger on a thorn ♪
♪ I d' pluck a finger bleeding ♪
♪ Red is my heart ♪
♪ Wounded and forlorn ♪
♪ And your heart needing ♪
♪ I d' hold a finger to my tongue ♪
♪ I d' hold a finger waiting ♪
♪ My heart is sore ♪
♪ Until it joins in song ♪
♪ Wi' your heart mating. ♪

Subject: RE: Songs on Poldark - authenticity?
From: GUEST,Dave
Date: 07 Apr 15 - 08:43 AM

Except that the song that you think is Julie Christie in Far from the Madding Crowd was dubbed by Isla Cameron, even then an established folk singer.

Subject: RE: Songs on Poldark - authenticity?
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 07 Apr 15 - 09:42 AM

Is this the FFTMC ?
Julie Christie- Bushes and Briars ( 0:38 )

Subject: RE: Songs on Poldark - authenticity?
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 07 Apr 15 - 10:10 AM

It's on the fringe of my memory but I seem to recall Angahrad Rees, as Demelza, singing and playing a song in the original Poldark series that goes:

"O' don't deceive me,
O' never leave me," etc.

BTW, I thought that clip of the more recent Demelza singing was charming.

Subject: RE: Songs on Poldark - authenticity?
From: GUEST,Dave
Date: 07 Apr 15 - 10:59 AM

Freddy, yes, except that according to both IMDB, and Isla Cameron's Wikipedia entry, that is Isla Cameron singing.

Again according to IMDB, Angahrad Rees sang her songs on the 1975 Poldark.

Subject: RE: Songs on Poldark - authenticity?
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 07 Apr 15 - 11:36 AM

Dave, yes, your right.
I'd c&p'd that in the blickymaker without thinking.

(Julie Christie miming to) Isla Cameron singing Bushes and Briars Far From The Madding Crowd.

Subject: RE: Songs on Poldark - authenticity?
From: NOSILAH
Date: 08 Apr 15 - 04:03 PM

I did not realise that about 'Bushes and Briars 'being mimed.

Subject: RE: Songs on Poldark - authenticity?
From: GUEST,Dave
Date: 08 Apr 15 - 05:06 PM

The song mentioned by gillymor is "Early One Morning" (Roud 12682). I hadn't realised it was from this period, but it was. Its known from "Some Mothers do 'ave 'em" as well as Poldark, but I have known it far longer than that. Maybe we sang it at school, or maybe Grainger's arrangement used to be broadcast on the Light programme (predecessor of Radio 2). But I definitely know it from my childhood.

Subject: RE: Songs on Poldark - authenticity?
From: GUEST,Dave
Date: 08 Apr 15 - 05:15 PM

More likely Britten's arrangement rather than Grainger's.

Subject: RE: Songs on Poldark - authenticity?
From: GUEST,anne neilson
Date: 08 Apr 15 - 05:23 PM

I certainly knew 'Early One Morning' from school in the UK in the mid-1950s.
It featured in one of the national school song books from which we sang -- along with favourites such as 'Men of Harlech', 'David of the White Rock', 'The Harp that once through Tara's Halls' etc.

Subject: RE: Songs on Poldark - authenticity?
From: GUEST,Dave
Date: 08 Apr 15 - 05:27 PM

Thanks Anne, probably we had the same book. Spanish Ladies was another one I remember singing.

Subject: RE: Songs on Poldark - authenticity?
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Apr 15 - 01:00 AM

I can find no mention of this song online outside of the novels written by Winston Graham (such as the first one in the Poldark series "Ross Poldark") - I find it in two of his novels. There are so many folk songs online, it's hard to believe it wasn't simply made up by the author if it's that hard to find.

Subject: RE: Songs on Poldark - authenticity?
From: GUEST,Dave
Date: 09 Apr 15 - 09:35 AM

And here it is:

Early One Morning

Subject: RE: Songs on Poldark - authenticity?
From: GUEST,Dave
Date: 09 Apr 15 - 09:42 AM

Guest, you won't find "I'd pluck a fair rose" there or anywhere else, its words by Winston Graham, music by Mike O'Connor, and how it came about is explained in Mike O'Connor's post above. Its not traditional, at least it wasn't until 2 weeks ago.

Subject: RE: Songs on Poldark - authenticity?
From: GUEST,M
Date: 10 Apr 15 - 06:28 AM

Guest, Dave:
"No mean achievement for a young actress not actually billed as a singer"...

Wikipedia tells us her mother is a singer - presumably this one - so there's some heritage at least.

Subject: RE: Songs on Poldark - authenticity?
From: LadyJean
Date: 10 Apr 15 - 10:15 PM

Okay, now I am seriously looking forward to Poldark coming to the states.

I was a teenager when my best friend brought the books back from England. They were serious fun.

Then came the first series with Robin Ellis. (Be still my beating hormones!)

Hoping the new one will be as good.

Subject: RE: Songs on Poldark - authenticity?
From: Don Firth
Date: 11 Apr 15 - 02:38 PM

I first heard "Early One Morning" on an early record by Richard Dyer-Bennet. As I recall, he sang only two verses.

Later, I encountered the song in a copy of Folk Songs of England, Ireland, Scotland, and Wales, compiled and edited by William Cole, a very nice collection. It gave many, many verses, which, if one were to sing them all, could get more than a little tedious.

While watching one of a couple of series productions of "Pride and Prejudice" on Masterpiece Theatre some years ago, Elizabeth Bennet's vacuous and most unhip sister, Mary, sat at the keyboard and sang verse after verse of "Early One Morning" until Mr. Bennet (the patriarch of the family) interrupted her and suggested that she give others a chance to entertain.

Barbara and I watch a fair amount of British television. We get it on our two local PBS channels. Masterpiece Theatre, Masterpiece Mystery, various comedies. Currently watching "Wolf Hall," about Thomas Cromwell and Henry VIII. We've already seen promos for the new "Poldark" series.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Songs on Poldark - authenticity?
From: GUEST,achmelvich
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 01:53 PM

i watched the original version when at stirling university in the late '70s - largely because i fancied demelza (though this probably finished when i saw debbie harry in her wee yellow dress on top of the pops) the new version is good -though a sort of guilty pleasure. i hadn't realised before how radical it was - pretty good socialism with a valid message for our times. or maybe i'm justifying myself for watching it as ross is so dreamy. oops, meant demelza. obviously.

Subject: RE: Songs on Poldark - authenticity?
From: Don Firth
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 03:12 PM

Ah, Demelza, played by Angharad Rees....

(pant pant, drool drool)

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Songs on Poldark - authenticity?
From: Lighter
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 04:45 PM

♪ I'd pluck a finger on a thorn ♪
♪ I'd pluck a finger bleeding ♪

Surely the word should be "prick" and not "pluck." But why prick a finger that's already bleeding? No more fingers?

♪ Red is my heart ♪

As it is in any case.

♪ I'd hold a finger to my tongue ♪

Because it's bleeding? Well, OK, I guess, but why is that important enough to sing about? We already know it's bleeding.

♪ I'd hold a finger waiting ♪

Let's not even go there....

Subject: RE: Songs on Poldark - authenticity?
From: Don Firth
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 04:53 PM

Symbolism.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Songs on Poldark - authenticity?
From: GUEST,Laura Ayre
Date: 27 Apr 15 - 07:19 AM

The words symbolise Demelzas strength of spirit and character, how she is truly devoted to Poldark. She would pluck a rose for her love, but should she pluck her finger on a Thorne and it bleeds she would still pluck her bleeding finger again to prove her love. This is emphased again in the second part of the lyric.

Subject: RE: Songs on Poldark - authenticity?
From: GUEST,Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Apr 15 - 07:51 AM

It is a very nice song. Poor old Ross though! After last night I expected a rendition of 'Nobody knows the trouble I've seen'...

Subject: RE: Songs on Poldark - authenticity?
From: GUEST,Allen
Date: 27 Apr 15 - 01:45 PM

What is the song called from last nights episode is it metal and gwynns.......I'm trying to find if anybody else has sung it?

Subject: RE: Songs on Poldark - authenticity?
From: GUEST,Dave
Date: 27 Apr 15 - 03:42 PM

There is to be a CD of the soundtrack:

"Medhel an Gwyns" is on it.

Unfortunately "I'd pluck a fair rose" doesn't seem to be.

I don't know who was singing "Medhel an Gwyns", but I think this may be the song that Mike O'Connor (about half way up the thread) said that he wrote the words and music for.

---

Link fixed. --mudelf

Subject: RE: Songs on Poldark - authenticity?
From: GUEST,Dave
Date: 27 Apr 15 - 03:59 PM

Sorry, messed up the link, the soundtrack listing is here:

"Medhel an Gwyns" is on it, unfortunately "I'd pluck a fair rose" doesn't seem to be.


I don't know who was singing "Medhel an Gwyns", but I think this may be the song that Mike O'Connor (about half way up the thread) said that he wrote the words and music for.

Subject: RE: Songs on Poldark - authenticity?
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 27 Apr 15 - 06:02 PM

I thought the song in the last episode was superb and glad I now know who wrote it - well done Mike!

Subject: RE: Songs on Poldark - authenticity?
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 02 May 15 - 08:14 AM

If you don't object to the p' being taken...
BBC Dead Ringers - Poldark spoof ~last 6minutes with Jon Culshaw, Jan Ravens, Duncan Wisbey, Lewis MacLeod, Debra Stephenson.

Subject: RE: Songs on Poldark - authenticity?
From: GUEST,cornwalgrey
Date: 14 May 15 - 10:33 PM

Plucked a rose -- a poem by Khalil Gibran. It's in the book but Khalil Gibran was born in the late 1800s

Subject: RE: Songs on Poldark - authenticity?
From: GUEST,Mike O'Connor
Date: 14 Jul 15 - 06:40 PM

A couple of thoughts on Winston Graham's lyric for "I d'Pluck a Fair Rose".
1. We thought about the words a lot. They are what Demelza sung, perhaps remembered or handed down imperfectly. Hence the inevitable discussion about the sense of the lyrics!
2. As you all know, many poems/aphorisms/songs/folk songs mention roses, thorns and pricked fingers. I don't know which may have been in WG's mind. I'm not familiar with the Gibran mentioned above and would appreciate a detailed reference.
3. Thanks for the comments on Medhel an Gwyns.
4. Hopefully one or more songs coming up in the next series.

Subject: RE: Songs on Poldark - authenticity?
From: LadyJean
Date: 14 Jul 15 - 11:50 PM

Okay, the new series is great. The lead isn't Robin Ellis. He IS Ross Poldark. He's very true to the character. He's also hot. Nothing to complain about there.

Subject: RE: Songs on Poldark - authenticity?
From: GUEST,David L. (Washington DC)
Date: 02 Aug 15 - 08:10 PM

I just watched episode 4 of the new series for a second time, and it was even better than before. I congratulate you, Mr O'Connor, for being a part of one of the finest dramatic productions I have ever seen in the past 40 years on PBS--screenwriting, soundtrack, casting, acting, cinematography, set design, costumes, and on, and on.

Sincerely,

David Levy
Washington, DC

Subject: RE: Songs on Poldark - authenticity?
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 03 Aug 15 - 02:52 PM

Have not seen the new Poldark, nor the old one, for that matter but I have got the gist of what is the attraction for those of the female persuasion..... Ed Pickford has written an excellent song about it all..

Subject: RE: Songs on Poldark - authenticity?
From: GUEST,Mary
Date: 14 Aug 15 - 10:07 PM

Although I do love the glimpses of Aiden Turner's abs, I am becoming increasingly enthralled with the music. What a wonderful series.

Subject: RE: Songs on Poldark - authenticity?
From: GUEST,D. Smith
Date: 17 Aug 15 - 10:40 PM

I don't recall The Keenly Lode. Was that a deleted scene or perhaps a scene that was edited out for the PBS Masterpiece version? Maybe you're all referring to the original series with that one? Just curious.

Thanks.

Subject: RE: Songs on Poldark - authenticity?
From: GUEST,Guest - M'Lynn Lady
Date: 20 Aug 15 - 09:41 PM

I didn't see anyone add this in the thread above but Medhel an Gwyns was sung in the program and on the soundtrack by the actress who played Demelza (who also sang all her other songs) Eleanor Tomlinson. The words Medhel an Gwyns means 'Soft is the Wind'.

Subject: RE: Songs on Poldark - authenticity?
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 18 Sep 16 - 01:31 PM

Please, could anyone explain... Mike O'Connor said that he wrote words and music for "Medhel an gwyn", then he said that Anne Dudley is the main composer. So... who wrote the music? Mike or Anne?
Mike, congratulations for the lyrics! They are amazing! I could write a 3000 words essay about them. They are really, really good, from the literature point of view.