BS: Politcal Lies and Misinformation

Subject: BS: Politcal Lies and Misinformation
From: Ebbie
Date: 07 Apr 15 - 03:09 AM

I just read some comments on a Newsmax article- anti-Obama, of course - that made me angry. There was no place for me to comment there so here I am on the Mudcat.

They were discussing the honesty of President Obama and said the scary thing he said early on that they can't get past was that he promised he was going to "change American fundamentally." Change it to what, they asked. Everyone knows he hates America and won't be satisfied until he has ruined everything good about it.

So I went looking for the actual quote. Here it is just before Barack Obama was elected:

October 2008 "In five days, you can turn the page on policies that put greed and irresponsibility on Wall Street before the hard work and sacrifice of folks on Main Street. In five days, you can choose policies that invest in our middle class, and create new jobs, and grow this economy, so that everyone has a chance to succeed, not just the CEO, but the secretary and janitor, not just the factory owner, but the men and women on the factory floor."

Isn't that awful? Can't you just see how much he hates America? Can't you see why they should be so scared?

Subject: RE: BS: Politcal Lies and Misinformation
From: Ebbie
Date: 07 Apr 15 - 03:48 AM

Sorry. I failed to copy the pertinent words:

"After decades of broken politics in Washington, and eight years of failed policies from George W. Bush, and 21 months of a campaign that's taken us from the rocky coast of Maine to the sunshine of California, we are five days away from fundamentally transforming the United States of America."

And it wasn't Newsmax but Politifact.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2014/feb/06/what-barack-obama-has-said-about-fundamentally-tra/

Subject: RE: BS: Politcal Lies and Misinformation
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Apr 15 - 04:01 AM

You can rely on right-wingers and racists to lie.

Subject: RE: BS: Politcal Lies and Misinformation
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Apr 15 - 04:10 AM

"Can't you just see how much he hates America?"
No, not at all - if "so that everyone has a chance to succeed, not just the CEO, but the secretary and janitor, not just the factory owner, but the men and women on the factory floor." is hateful to America, then America is a hateful place - thanks to its insane gun laws and its lunartic-fringe Tea Party, we knew that anyway.
Let's hope he breaks the political mold and actually means what he says.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Politcal Lies and Misinformation
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Apr 15 - 04:46 AM

Good Heavens, I agree with Richard and Jim! 👍😄

Subject: RE: BS: Politcal Lies and Misinformation
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Apr 15 - 04:48 AM

Speaking of Right-Wingers - anyone know what's happened to Don(wysiwyg)T?

Subject: RE: BS: Politcal Lies and Misinformation
From: Megan L
Date: 07 Apr 15 - 04:54 AM

Jim climb of the horse long enough to read Ebbies post thoroughly and you will see that the statement you latched on to was obviously intended to point out the ridiculousness of the newsmax article.

Subject: RE: BS: Politcal Lies and Misinformation
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Apr 15 - 05:19 AM

" was obviously intended to point out the ridiculousness of the newsmax article"
You're right, of course - should have stuck to the golde rule - never post juts after you've got out of bed, or when you get home from the pub late at night
Apologies to Ebbie
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Politcal Lies and Misinformation
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 07 Apr 15 - 05:26 AM

I partially agree with Richard -- in that you can rely on a politician of any point on the right-left spectrum to lie if it suits his book at the time. Or is he disingenuously going to assert that no leftie politician has ever told the itsy-bitsiest ickle untruth, everevereveever...?

〠☺≈M≈☺〠

Subject: RE: BS: Politcal Lies and Misinformation
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Apr 15 - 05:48 AM

Right wingers always lie. They steal from the poor to help gross out the rich. Left wing politicians sometimes tell the truth and their objectives are in principle to help rather than oppress those in need. It really is not hard to see where the moral high ground is.

Subject: RE: BS: Politcal Lies and Misinformation
From: Musket
Date: 07 Apr 15 - 06:31 AM

Fascinating post there Bridge.. If a political shares your outlook in general, they don't lie but if they are the other end of the pendulum they do...

Don't tell me you are going to exercise your vote are you?

You could easily swap the left and right in Bridge's post. Politicians say what they feel the audience of the time want to hear. Obama has been slighted , mis quoted and vilified. Yet if he and his take on matters were exported over here, he would fit in comfortably in a Cameron cabinet.

The last thing you need is Bridge's Robin Hood syndrome.... Just pragmatic politics from either side. I'll vote Labour next month as usual. Are you Bridge? Only you used to vote for right wing conservative governments so I'd hate to pre judge your intentions...

Subject: RE: BS: Politcal Lies and Misinformation
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Apr 15 - 06:40 AM

Your history, Mither, is as dubious as your logic, and as inaccurate as your purported quotation. If you can honestly (oh, silly me!) switch left and right in my assertion you are without a moral compass.

Tribesman, Don is getting on a bit, and not all that well, partly as the result of a lifetime's smoking. He had to have a hand operation - it may have been as the result of a DIY accident, I forget - as a result of which one finger on his left hand does not bend at all, and he is having to re-learn guitar using only open tunings. Winnie his wife is also not all that well. Alas he has learned nothing and still votes for the conservatives whose "reforms" oppress him.

Subject: RE: BS: Politcal Lies and Misinformation
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Apr 15 - 07:40 AM

Sad news about Don. Although I am opposed to his politics, I've always regarded him as one of the Good Guys on this forum, and a very decent human being. If you see him, could I ask you to wish him well on my behalf please?

I suspect his support for the Conservatives will go with him to the grave, but hey-ho, that's how it goes.

Subject: RE: BS: Politcal Lies and Misinformation
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Apr 15 - 09:14 AM

Left wing, right wing - extreme versions of either have caused the deaths of many.

Subject: RE: BS: Politcal Lies and Misinformation
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 07 Apr 15 - 09:23 AM

Appropriate that Richard has that name. Like Dickens's Mr Dick, he has his own King Charles's Head.

≈M≈

Subject: RE: BS: Politcal Lies and Misinformation
From: Greg F.
Date: 07 Apr 15 - 10:25 AM

you can rely on a politician of any point on the right-left spectrum to lie

Before everyone comes down too hard on politicians, it is the universal propensity for any and all members of what Sam Clemens called "The God-damned human race" to lie any time an advantage is percieved for doing so. This is not to suggest that politicians and lawyers aren't especially adept through long practice.


Left wing, right wing - extreme versions of either have caused the deaths of many

Absolutely. But several observations deserve consideration.

The existence of an "extreme left wing" element of any moment in U.S. politics is a complete fantasy, while the "extreme right wing" as exemplified by any number of neo-conservative Republican clowns is a reality and growing daily. For these idiots and their adherents, Prez. Obama is "extreme left wing".

I suspect the same general situation pertains, more or less, on Canada and the U.K.

Subject: RE: BS: Politcal Lies and Misinformation
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 07 Apr 15 - 10:29 AM

No Greg, it does not. The American " ultra conservatives" are given rather a lot of power in the us,.

Subject: RE: BS: Politcal Lies and Misinformation
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Apr 15 - 10:36 AM

Good grief! WHY must a regular set from the other side of the pond use every opportunity to snipe at each others politics & personal reasoning?

Ebbie was commenting on a fairly narrow area of political behavior, and one specifically about a current American situation..... the ongoing attempt to mis-quote, distort and muddy everything Obama says and does.

Even IF it reminds you of some general problem in YOUR political system, there's no *good* reason to grab the tiller in a knee-jerk response and steer the 'discussion' toward sweeping put-downs of your favorite forum targets!

...I forget... a good reason is not needed- just seeing the name of one of your targets will do.
Is there something in the water over there? We get criticized quite fairly for using guns to deal with disputes....maybe, lacking guns, personalized verbal pot-shots are the only outlet for expression.

Anyone care to comment on just conservative treatment of Obama?

Subject: RE: BS: Politcal Lies and Misinformation
From: Greg F.
Date: 07 Apr 15 - 10:37 AM

Looks like you got cut off there, HiLo. Please continue & elaborate.

Subject: RE: BS: Politcal Lies and Misinformation
From: Mrrzy
Date: 07 Apr 15 - 10:51 AM

The men and women on the factory floor should find rooms.

Subject: RE: BS: Politcal Lies and Misinformation
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Apr 15 - 11:11 AM

Actually, my words were and remain apt to the US situation, anT remain true, unlike those of Mither and Myer (or Meyer or Meyers, I forget which).

Terribilis, you would not know reality if it bit your bum. The right wingers seeking to ameliorate the condition of the poor? ROTFLMAO.

1. Check the truth about Scumeron's lies about the economy.
2. You cannot be serious. Their objective of con-servatives (like Grunt Schitts for example) is to help the rich get richer - and it is always at the expense of the poor. The only thing that trickled down out of trickle-down economics was the way they pissed on the poor.
3. You are a fantasist. The fundamental ostensible purpose of left-wing politics is assist those most in need. The silly expression "they are all the same) is a lazy bit of propaganda, uttered and accepted only by the feeble-minded.
4. You see, I said you had no moral compass. The defence of the welfare state and the planet for example form parts of the moral high ground.

Subject: RE: BS: Politcal Lies and Misinformation
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 07 Apr 15 - 11:45 AM

"men with beards and sandals"

.,,.

What's with this peculiar stereotype anyhow?

I have a beard these days, since I realised in 2009 that I hated shaving and there was really no reason why I should bother to do it -- esp as I lived alone then, between my first wife's death and meeting my present wife, who has never known me without a beard. I scrape the side bits every couple of days & keep it trimmed fairly short, FWIW.

I happen to find sandals particularly comfortable footwear for warm weather.

Why these two discrete facts, taken in conjunction, should be presumed to say anything about my personality, probable opinions, or anything but the adventitousness of their own actuality, I cannot conceive.

≈M≈

It is Myer actually, Bridgie-Boy -- as you perfectly well know and were only pretending not to as a piece of contemptible throwaway rudeness becoz you are one of nature's yobboes...

Subject: RE: BS: Politcal Lies and Misinformation
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 07 Apr 15 - 12:29 PM

All I meant to say was that Canada and The UK do not seem to have the equivalent of the Republican Party, who seem to be against health care, Gay marriage, abortion, evolution and immigration. Both Canada and The UK seem to have dealt with these issues in a saner way.

Subject: RE: BS: Politcal Lies and Misinformation
From: GUEST,#
Date: 07 Apr 15 - 12:32 PM

". . . who seem to be against health care, Gay marriage, abortion, evolution and immigration."

That sounds like the Conservatives in Canada. I thank the heavens daily that our Supreme Court is looking out for Canucks..

Subject: RE: BS: Politcal Lies and Misinformation
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 07 Apr 15 - 12:38 PM

All of the things I mentioned exists in both Canada and the UK and seem to have come about without the rancor seen in America.

Subject: RE: BS: Politcal Lies and Misinformation
From: GUEST,Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Apr 15 - 02:49 PM

Is there something in the water over there? We get criticized quite fairly for using guns to deal with disputes....maybe, lacking guns, personalized verbal pot-shots are the only outlet for expression.


What a crass statement. How many people have died of verbal pot-shots, Bill? Maybe if you guys got on with the robust arguments that you are criticising you would not be killing each other.

Besides, correct me if I am wrong, but this is a global web site is it not?

Subject: RE: BS: Politcal Lies and Misinformation
From: Musket
Date: 07 Apr 15 - 03:13 PM

Yeah Mike. Stereotypes.

Remember when you were egging on Keith A Hole of Hertford and Terribulus when they were advocating terrorising Palestinians and I told you the nice respectable man in the newsagent serving his village or the doctor saving lives are also Muslims?

You said yes. But do they know where their nephews are?

Stereotyping? You wrote the fucking book pal.

Subject: RE: BS: Politcal Lies and Misinformation
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Apr 15 - 04:05 PM

Nobody had to DIE Dave, for all the sniping & pot-shots to be inappropriate. Robust arguments are one thing... twisting everthing to fit is very similar to what Ebbie was was complaining about!

A golobal SITE... that doesn't make every thread grist for YOUR mill.

If BritX wants to snipe at BritY, let 'em start a thread to do so!

Subject: RE: BS: Politcal Lies and Misinformation
From: Greg F.
Date: 07 Apr 15 - 04:08 PM

the [U.S.] Republican Party, who seem to be against health care, Gay marriage, abortion, evolution and immigration.

Yes, and unfortunately, that's not the half of it.

Subject: RE: BS: Politcal Lies and Misinformation
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 07 Apr 15 - 04:39 PM

No doubt you know what you are on about, Muskibumz.

Don't expect anyone else does tho.

I certainly don't.

But please don't trouble to explain, coz I shan't bother to read it. I am sure it will be as ballsachingly boring as most of yours.

Subject: RE: BS: Politcal Lies and Misinformation
From: GUEST,#
Date: 07 Apr 15 - 04:49 PM

"ballsachingly"

I realize it's an adverb, but what does ball saching mean? It sounds painful, I can tell ya that!

Subject: RE: BS: Politcal Lies and Misinformation
From: GUEST,Pete from seven stars link
Date: 07 Apr 15 - 05:20 PM

Backwoodsman , I did ask after don at a singaround he used to frequent, and I seem to remember that there were some health and transport problems mentioned. I have no idea if any of that affects him posting on mudcat. Whatever, wishing him and poetry bird well.

Subject: RE: BS: Politcal Lies and Misinformation
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Apr 15 - 05:33 PM

Don has posted recently on Facebook.

Subject: RE: BS: Politcal Lies and Misinformation
From: akenaton
Date: 07 Apr 15 - 06:13 PM

# I think M was saying that trying to interpret "Team Muskets" posts was akin to a "pain in the balls" due to incomprehensibility and boredom quotient.

Personally I seldom read them, unless to correct some particularly puerile lie.

On Pres Obama, I'm sure he must be a great disappointment to many of those who voted for him, believing that he could indeed institute change.
Mr Obama was selected by "liberal" America chiefly because he was black....but being black carries no guarantee of being able to effect change. Mr Obama is obviously extremely intelligent has a background in devious Chicago politics, and has been a corporate lawyer.
With these qualifications I am perfectly sure he knew very well how little was achievable.....and exactly how much change he would be allowed to bring into effect.

NEXT....substitute "black" for "female", "Obama" for "Clinton" and all jump on the merry go round for another spin

Subject: RE: BS: Politcal Lies and Misinformation
From: Greg F.
Date: 07 Apr 15 - 06:47 PM

Mr Obama was selected by "liberal" America chiefly because he was black

Bullshit, Ake. You really are losing it, more than usual.

Please also define "liberal America".

Subject: RE: BS: Politcal Lies and Misinformation
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Apr 15 - 07:08 PM

What a disgusting post.

Subject: RE: BS: Politcal Lies and Misinformation
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Apr 15 - 07:10 PM

That was a reference to akenaton's post.

Subject: RE: BS: Politcal Lies and Misinformation
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Apr 15 - 02:39 AM

Disgusting Steve, in what way?   Are you trying to say that there is something racist about my post?

Subject: RE: BS: Politcal Lies and Misinformation
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Apr 15 - 02:45 AM

The point is that regardless of who you are, or what you are, the ability to effect "change" is constrained by the political and economic system.

This fact also applies to the UK....as was amply demonstrated by Mr Blair.

Subject: RE: BS: Politcal Lies and Misinformation
From: GUEST,Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Apr 15 - 02:51 AM

Personally I seldom read them, unless to correct some particularly puerile lie.

How do you know which are 'puerile lies' unless you read them all? Unless it is a puerile lie that seldom read them?

Subject: RE: BS: Politcal Lies and Misinformation
From: GUEST,Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Apr 15 - 02:58 AM

The crassness, Bill, was in comparing verbal pot-shots to the use of guns. And the point of it being a global site is that anyone is allowed to comment on anything in anyway. Unless you are a moderator I suggest that you do not try to make the rules.

Subject: RE: BS: Politcal Lies and Misinformation
From: Musket
Date: 08 Apr 15 - 03:21 AM

Talking about not reading posts... If I want to read articles Terribulus, I am quite capable of finding and reading them myself thank you. Except I'd read the whole article with full context rather than your cherry picking propaganda.

My reference to Michael and his post thinking I stereotype was referring to when I mentioned the 99.99% of Muslims who get on with their lives and contribute to society in the same way as anyone else. He replied yes, but does the nice newsagent know where his nephew is?

I reckon I too would claim dementia if I were Mike. It was a particularly nasty post.

Up there with the racist shit Akenaton has just posted. Hopefully in Akenhateon's case it can be dismissed as a lie same as some of his other hate posts. Far better to think of him as a simpleton who types lies due to a mental disorder than to think such horrible creatures still exist in modern society.

Subject: RE: BS: Politcal Lies and Misinformation
From: Teribus
Date: 08 Apr 15 - 03:56 AM

Bridge:

"1. Check the truth about Scumeron's lies about the economy."

What lies? Stock Market any gauge of the economy? FTSE 100: 10th October 2008 stood at 3,932.10 - on 7th April 2015 it stood at 6,961.77 - Now then Bridge that would appear to be rise in value of 77% - biggest investors in the Stock Market? Pension Funds for individuals and Companies (Including Union Pension Funds), Insurance Companies; Banks - They all come a long way ahead those you call "The Rich".


2. You cannot be serious. Their objective of con-servatives (like Grunt Schitts for example) is to help the rich get richer - and it is always at the expense of the poor. The only thing that trickled down out of trickle-down economics was the way they pissed on the poor.

Series of programmes on BBC World recently "Rich World" gives the figures that the value of trade in the world has more than doubled in the last 25 years, that the percentage of the world's population who are living in poverty has halved over the same period, that the most rapidly expanding "class" throughout the world is the "middle-class". None of the above possible if what you state is true.


3. You are a fantasist. The fundamental ostensible purpose of left-wing politics is assist those most in need. The silly expression "they are all the same) is a lazy bit of propaganda, uttered and accepted only by the feeble-minded."

I think that you are living in the past - I think that you are one of those "socialist" voters who "vote" by your heart and not your head and continually vote for anyone wearing a red rosette irrespective of the shambles they make of things and when on each occasion they fail you shrug your shoulders and say, "Well they weren't real "socialists" in the first place." Your comment - "The fundamental ostensible purpose of left-wing politics is assist those most in need." - when matched to reality is idiotic - in theory that may have once been the idea, but that has long since disappeared - PARTY FIRST, get in power then stay in power at any price irrespective of what harm we do to the country - "Our loyal FOOLS will always vote for us" (Best example of the latter is Labour's view and regard of Labour voters in Scotland and Wales).

Neil Kinnock and his wife Glenys were worth how much before they entered politics Bridge? What are they collectively worth now? Tony Blair worth how much before they entered politics? What is he worth now? Get the answers to those questions Bridge and you will find that it it is not only the rich who get richer is it?

4. You see, I said you had no moral compass. The defence of the welfare state and the planet for example form parts of the moral high ground.

Did you say that "I had no moral compass"? Could you point out anywhere on this thread that you said that? Defence of the Welfare State? Who is attacking it? We all know that there are more than enough examples of people abusing it, after all the net-contributors to HMRC coffers are forced to pay for them each and every year. The Welfare State was never, ever set up so that people could permanently live on it - The five great evils in society ("squalor, ignorance, want, idleness and disease") that Beveridge sought to combat and eliminate in his 1942 Report on Welfare, the UK Welfare System as applied by politicians in the UK now actually inadvertently promote "irresponsible and immature attitudes, with the result that squalor, ignorance, and idleness are common." We are defending the planet Bridge? Really? Considering the Protocols, Treaties and Agreements we have signed up to with the foreknowledge that for their own economic and development reasons the worst offenders were deliberately let off the hook care to tell me what targets have been met? The answer of course is none, and none are even remotely likely to be met, the whole thing was set up to fail (GWB and his advisers recognised that and they proposed tackling the problem using technology - that path at the time of the first Kyoto was rejected - pity that as the USA was on the right track).

Subject: RE: BS: Politcal Lies and Misinformation
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 08 Apr 15 - 04:18 AM

Oh. What was 'nasty' about it? Do you know what your nephews are doing? I don't.

Don't know why I bother though. Muskititz always reminds me of Jane Austen's masterly summary in Sense & Sensibility of the futility of arguing with idiots: "Elinor agreed with it all, for she did not think he deserved the compliment of rational opposition."

So Carry On Popgun -- no more rational opposition from me; so maunder away, you pathetic little ½·wit.

≈M≈

Subject: RE: BS: Politcal Lies and Misinformation
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 08 Apr 15 - 09:54 AM

Speaking of misinformation, Obama was never a corporate lawyer as asserted above. This is an example of the right telling people what they want to hear irregardless of the truth. Some of us should expand our horizons beyond conservative blogs.

Subject: RE: BS: Politcal Lies and Misinformation
From: Greg F.
Date: 08 Apr 15 - 10:29 AM

This is an example of the right telling people what they want to hear

Which is bad enough, but not as bad as people eagerly lapping up buckets of right-wing bullshit without bothering to check to see if it IS bullshit.

Worse still are the hoards of people who having been shown that it IS right-wing bullshit continue to believe it all the same.

Subject: RE: BS: Politcal Lies and Misinformation
From: Musket
Date: 08 Apr 15 - 10:36 AM

In reply to the question above ;

Go into any thread regarding Israel and click on "Teribus"

Plenty of material to go on, if you have the stomach.

Subject: RE: BS: Politcal Lies and Misinformation
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Apr 15 - 11:57 AM

Apparently both Michelle and Barak Obama, both worked for Sidley Austin LLP one of America's premier corporate law firms from 1988 to 1994?...unsure about second date.

I am not "right wing", or an idiot, simply discussing the issue. If I have that wrong I will be pleased to be informed...thank you.

Subject: RE: BS: Politcal Lies and Misinformation
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 08 Apr 15 - 12:37 PM

Obama hadn't even entered law school until 1988 and according to his CV was never a "Corporate Lawyer". Factual information is available for anyone actually seeking it. For an informative and inspiring read I'd recommend his self-penned memoir "Dreams of My Father".

Regarding this:

"NEXT....substitute "black" for "female", "Obama" for "Clinton" and all jump on the merry go round for another spin"

While I think you got your "quoted" terms reversed are you suggesting that to elect Hilary Clinton, an accomplished, intelligent woman would be an act of tokenism? Of course if a dunce like Sarah Palin who you spoke very highly of and who resigned her governorship in the middle of her first term to sign lucrative contract for a reality TV show that would be a perfectly reasonable choice, huh?

Subject: RE: BS: Politcal Lies and Misinformation
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Apr 15 - 01:27 PM

Did he or did he not work for Sidley Austin?

:0) I doubt if Mrs Clinton will effect much change, but being the US first female president will play well with the media just as Mr Obama did......and that is all that counts under this system.