BS: Bernie Sanders to run as Democrat.

Subject: RE: BS: Bernie Sanders to run as Democrat.
From: Don Firth
Date: 06 May 15 - 11:30 PM

Akenaton a Right Winger, Michaelr --- ???

Government backed—protected--Capitalism is Fascism (Mussolini's definition, and he should know). Business and the government are inextricably mixed.   

Under Marxism (Communism), businesses are communally owned and operated (hence, "Communism").

FDR, in his New Deal, placed severe government restrictions on business, reigning in their abuses, and this, plus other measures, ended the Great Depression. Ronald Reagan systematically took measures to reverse FDR's regulations and restrictions and that has a lot to do with the mess we're in now.

Unless I'm missing something, I don't think Akenaton favors Capitalism (Right Wing) in any way, shape, or form.

Well regulated Capitalism (a la FDR) functioned quite well until Reagan emasculated FDR's regulations.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Bernie Sanders to run as Democrat.
From: Jeri
Date: 06 May 15 - 11:10 PM

Why it's just about impossible to talk about some things (different from the usual threads): somebody who doesn't care for a subject comes in and fucks it up with an off-topic troll and certain friends of trolls jump all over it and keep fucking it up.

Subject: RE: BS: Bernie Sanders to run as Democrat.
From: Bill D
Date: 06 May 15 - 10:52 PM

"... truths about the nature of capitalism are becoming more obvious every day."

What is becoming more obvious every day is that slogans and generalizations are becoming more ubiquitous.

If Don & I are really intelligent, why would we "spend our lifetimes promoting myths"?

I know *I* have spent most of my life delving into how OTHERS promote myths. There are many, many problems with all forms of society, based on, as I said, how people act within the society they inherit. (Insert 27 page introduction to my "General Analysis of Pure Balderdash" here.)

Sorry Ake, but you can't just state stuff like that without being called on it.

Subject: RE: BS: Bernie Sanders to run as Democrat.
From: michaelr
Date: 06 May 15 - 10:27 PM

Ake is a marxist now? I thought he was a right-winger!

I'm so confused...

Subject: RE: BS: Bernie Sanders to run as Democrat.
From: Don Firth
Date: 06 May 15 - 06:14 PM

Yep. Talks like a good little Marxist.

Been tried. Doesn't work. But the faithful disciples apparently haven't got the message even yet!!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Bernie Sanders to run as Democrat.
From: akenaton
Date: 06 May 15 - 05:52 PM

These truths about the nature of capitalism are becoming more obvious every day.

You complain about the one per cent and the ninety nine per cent...that's capitalism...for numpties!

Intelligent people like you and Bill should be able to see what is happening and where it is leading.....I believe that you do know, but your lifetimes investment in promoting the myth that the left can manage capitalism prohibits rational thinking.

Subject: RE: BS: Bernie Sanders to run as Democrat.
From: Don Firth
Date: 06 May 15 - 01:56 PM

Akenaton, you're spouting stale clichés that I've heard for years--from guys who sit in the back booth of the pub all day long and plot the overthrow of the system. But can't stir up enough ambition to even look for a job. In the meantime, they pay for their beer out of the welfare check they receive from the system they want to overthrow....

I'm not the one who needs to wake up.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Bernie Sanders to run as Democrat.
From: Bill D
Date: 06 May 15 - 12:15 PM

"Capitalism is not designed to run a country, it is designed to ..."

Oh, pooh! How it often works is one thing.... what it was "designed" to be is quite another. Capitalism is not intrinsically 'bad'...just as Communism is not.

Did you never hear the remark: "In Capitalism, man exploits his fellow man, in Communism, it's the other way around."

ANY political system depends on how it is administered and the fine details of the setup. Theoretically, a 'benign despotism' would work...but humans being what they are.

Subject: RE: BS: Bernie Sanders to run as Democrat.
From: akenaton
Date: 06 May 15 - 03:02 AM

No Don, it's just that personal and corporate financial aspiration is what drives the capitalist system, not child poverty, or free education, or free health care.

All these things could be wholly or partly removed and the system would continue to operate and operate more efficiently, but remove the incentive to be richer, more powerful and have more influence than you neighbour, and the system flops, dead, it is an ex-system!

Capitalism is not designed to run a country, it is designed to make a few rich and make millions poor.
This can be observed now in the flight of capital to the East, leaving the declining West to crumble.
We are no longer required, obsolete, unsustainable.

Wake Up!!

Subject: RE: BS: Bernie Sanders to run as Democrat.
From: Don Firth
Date: 05 May 15 - 10:55 PM

The nattering nabobs of negativism that infest these threads ("Why waste your time? They've all been bought. They're all just a bunch of crooks!") would do well to meditate on those words of Bernie Sanders.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Bernie Sanders to run as Democrat.
From: Elmore
Date: 05 May 15 - 09:47 PM

A few decades ago, a female co-worker whom I secretly (I hope) desired, made me aware of Bernie, who was,at that point, the mayor of Burlington. I've followed his career since then, and been impressed by his honesty and determination.

Subject: RE: BS: Bernie Sanders to run as Democrat.
From: GUEST
Date: 05 May 15 - 07:07 PM

I am going to try my best to try to create a country in which children are not living in poverty, in which kids can go to college, in which seniors have health care. Will I succeed? I can't guarantee you that. But I can tell you that from a human point of view, it is better to show up than to give up.

Bernie Sanders

Subject: RE: BS: Bernie Sanders to run as Democrat.
From: akenaton
Date: 05 May 15 - 05:54 PM

Greg...."Its what drives unregulated, "free-market"[sic] (ca. 1776 Adam Smith)gonzo capitalism, the favorite hobby-horse of Ted Cruz, Rand Paul, and the rest of the Republcan Tea-Potty Assemblage that do not have the mental capacity to realize this is no longer an 18th century community of independent artisans."

There is no other type of capitalism......except of course, "Failed Capitalism"......They just dress it up in shiny new clothes, they think we are idiots, they bribe us with meaningless "rights", they steal our labour and our savings, they commit gross financial crimes.

We are idiots!

Subject: RE: BS: Bernie Sanders to run as Democrat.
From: Greg F.
Date: 05 May 15 - 03:41 PM

its what drives capitalism

Its what drives unregulated, "free-market"[sic] (ca. 1776 Adam Smith)gonzo capitalism, the favorite hobby-horse of Ted Cruz, Rand Paul, and the rest of the Republcan Tea-Potty Assemblage that do not have the mental capacity to realize this is no longer an 18th century commnity of independent artisans.

Subject: RE: BS: Bernie Sanders to run as Democrat.
From: GUEST
Date: 05 May 15 - 03:30 PM

And then there are those, like Akenaton, whose heads are so far up their own favorite ideology than they can't see that a person like Bernie Sanders, if given the opportunity, could do a lot of people a lot of good and help to alleviate the abuses of the Capitalist system.

FDR understood this and did a great deal (i.e., the New Deal) to improve the lot of the citizenry at large. Later, much of the FDR's reforms were systematically disassembled or otherwise rendered impotent by Ronald Reagan, who should have stuck to acting and stayed the hell out of politics.

But the Ayn Rand faction loved him for it!

Don Firth (for some reason I can't seem to log in today)

Subject: RE: BS: Bernie Sanders to run as Democrat.
From: akenaton
Date: 05 May 15 - 06:50 AM

Guest, It's called financial aspiration and its what drives capitalism.
Do what Mr Sanders says and the system fails.....why does no one appear to understand that simple fact.

Of course we all want equality but this system does not recognise it ...it is anathema

Subject: RE: BS: Bernie Sanders to run as Democrat.
From: GUEST
Date: 04 May 15 - 07:20 PM

"A nation will not survive morally or economically when so few have so much while so many have so little"

Bernie Sanders

Subject: RE: BS: Bernie Sanders to run as Democrat.
From: Bill D
Date: 04 May 15 - 10:24 AM

Did anyone but me see the long interview Sanders did with Ed Schultz the other day? Ed asked a lot of pointed questions, but Bernie had clear, unambiguous answers. He may not be the financial expert Warren is, and doesn't have the specific international experience of Hilary as former Sec, of State, but he has educated himself in those issues and is well versed in current social issues and the problems of the political system.....unlike most of the Republican candidates who seem to just be against stuff or parroting single-issue talking points.

He may not have serious expectations of winning, but it won't be a dull race with Bernie in it.
(ummm... the Republican primary won't be dull either, but for different reasons. ☺

Subject: RE: BS: Bernie Sanders to run as Democrat.
From: akenaton
Date: 04 May 15 - 05:05 AM

No TM, I really think in your case it is simply a lack of comprehension....sorry

Subject: RE: BS: Bernie Sanders to run as Democrat.
From: Musket
Date: 04 May 15 - 04:31 AM

So that's why normal people struggle to understand your non sequiteaurs and illogical hatred?

It all seems to fit nicely.

Subject: RE: BS: Bernie Sanders to run as Democrat.
From: akenaton
Date: 04 May 15 - 04:29 AM

The problem is Greg, that in Western corporate politics, the "brain dead idiots" are no danger compared to the astute, "liberal", middle of the road, financial and foreign policy experts.

When conversing with a "brain dead electorate", of left and right, who do not understand how they are being fucked, It is sometimes helpful to speak their language.

Subject: RE: BS: Bernie Sanders to run as Democrat.
From: Don Firth
Date: 03 May 15 - 09:57 PM

I'm reading a bunch (unbiased political records), and the more I read about Bernie Sanders, the better I like him.

I'm also reading a lot about Hillary Clinton, and I can say the same about her. She does have a tendency to shoot from the lip from time to time, which can occasionally get her into hot water, but all in all, we could do one helluva lot worse.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Bernie Sanders to run as Democrat.
From: Elmore
Date: 03 May 15 - 07:15 PM

Make that the early nineties.

Subject: RE: BS: Bernie Sanders to run as Democrat.
From: Elmore
Date: 03 May 15 - 07:12 PM

Loved it when Bernie introduced Pete Seeger at a Vermont folk festival in the eighties, praising Pete for standing up to the multi-national corporations.

Subject: RE: BS: Bernie Sanders to run as Democrat.
From: GUEST,#
Date: 03 May 15 - 06:58 PM

Last post was me.

Subject: RE: BS: Bernie Sanders to run as Democrat.
From: GUEST
Date: 03 May 15 - 06:57 PM

"And most breathing people with a pretension to even minimal intelligence realize that Sarah Palin is a fucking brain-dead idiot."

Don't hold back, Greg. Say what you really mean LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Bernie Sanders to run as Democrat.
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 May 15 - 06:17 PM

And most breathing people with a pretension to even minimal intelligence realize that Sarah Palin is a fucking brain-dead idiot.

Ditto Ted Cruz, Rand Paul, Marco Rubio, Jeb Bush & the rest of the current Republican freak show.

UNFORTUNATELY, breathibng people of intelligence are an ever shrinking minority in the U. S. of A. - best brain-dead country in the world.

Subject: RE: BS: Bernie Sanders to run as Democrat.
From: GUEST,#
Date: 03 May 15 - 05:44 PM

Fortunately, most breathing people recognize that Palin isn't a mental heavyweight.

Subject: RE: BS: Bernie Sanders to run as Democrat.
From: GUEST
Date: 03 May 15 - 05:22 PM

The bimbo, Sarah Palin, weighs in on Sanders; 'Bernice Anders is a Socialist Vermont Obama'

Subject: RE: BS: Bernie Sanders to run as Democrat.
From: akenaton
Date: 03 May 15 - 04:49 PM

Hillary the Hawk on US foreign policy

Concerning actions which helped to destabilise Libya and create IS.

What a laugh!

Subject: RE: BS: Bernie Sanders to run as Democrat.
From: Jeri
Date: 03 May 15 - 04:49 PM

He's in New Hampshire currently. WMUR (NH) News clip

Subject: RE: BS: Bernie Sanders to run as Democrat.
From: akenaton
Date: 03 May 15 - 04:39 PM

But what about "change".....who's going to be allowed to deliver "change"?

Subject: RE: BS: Bernie Sanders to run as Democrat.
From: Bill D
Date: 03 May 15 - 02:56 PM

Hmmm... maybe GfS wants 27 Republicans to choose from. (as he seems not to care for any Democrats.)

*I* can quickly name a dozen Democrats I would trust... and 6-7 of those that I feel are qualified in enough areas.
. The idea that Hilary is "corrupt" is silly. NO major politician since maybe William Proxmire of Wisconsin in the late 70s has managed to win without 'some' $$$$$ from labor, business...etc. Compromise is NOT corruption.

Subject: RE: BS: Bernie Sanders to run as Democrat.
From: Don Firth
Date: 03 May 15 - 02:03 PM

The idiot is you, Goofus. Who do you hope will be nominated in the conventions?

Not a clue!! When it comes to political positions, you don't know Hillary Clinton from Hillary Hawn, the violinist. Or Sir Edmond Hillary, the first man to ascend Mt. Everest. Saves you the work of actually studying the potential candidates' positions on the various issues. Or even, except in the crudest sense, knowing what the issues are.

Lazy slob....

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Bernie Sanders to run as Democrat.
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 03 May 15 - 12:22 PM

GUEST: "Okay, GfS, who do YOU want to be president?
And don't wimp out. Let's have a name!
And exactly WHY that particular person."

Perhaps you question is a bit premature, being as, not all the possible candidates have announced whether they are running yet......

What a pushy idiot!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Bernie Sanders to run as Democrat.
From: Musket
Date: 03 May 15 - 03:02 AM

Aye # but some love childs still walk this earth, much to the chagrin of the more evolved end of the species.

Subject: RE: BS: Bernie Sanders to run as Democrat.
From: Elmore
Date: 03 May 15 - 12:00 AM

Love Bernie's rendition of Les Rice's "Banks of Marble."

Subject: RE: BS: Bernie Sanders to run as Democrat.
From: GUEST,#
Date: 02 May 15 - 07:56 AM

"Is this a political thread?

The moderators are being slow to close it down...."


What's to close down? Even colonials know how to be polite. It's not necessary to call someone a bastard when the same thing can be accomplished by saying he was begat on a duchess by a head waiter ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Bernie Sanders to run as Democrat.
From: GUEST,#
Date: 02 May 15 - 07:37 AM

"Bernie Sanders is serving his second term in the U.S. Senate after winning re-election in 2012 with 71 percent of the vote. His previous 16 years in the House of Representatives make him the longest serving INDEPENDENT member of Congress in American history." [Emphasis added.]

In a country where senators and representatives are bought and sold like supermarket commodities, most people just don't know what to do with someone like Bernie Sanders. I think the thing to do is vote for him. If nothing else, you'll sleep better at night knowing you have cast an honest ballot for an honest candidate.

Subject: RE: BS: Bernie Sanders to run as Democrat.
From: GUEST
Date: 01 May 15 - 11:40 PM

yeah re the comment about repealing citizens united ... that's a good first step. step two repeal the patriot act ...step three nominate edward snowden head of the NSA - he has more conscience and ethical fortitude than any of those goose-stepping spooks.

republicans run on a platform of repealing everything obama accomplished. why don't democrats run on a platform of repealing all the crap bush bestowed on the american people during his catastrophic tenure?

Subject: RE: BS: Bernie Sanders to run as Democrat.
From: GUEST
Date: 01 May 15 - 06:46 PM

How could any Mudcat folkie not vote for Bernie knowing that he recorded an album of folk songs: Bernie Sanders Recorded a Folk Album. No Punchline Required

He also appeared in a movie "My X-Girlfriends Wedding Reception" as a character by the name of Manny Shevitz.

The man is more than qualified to be the next POTUS.

Subject: RE: BS: Bernie Sanders to run as Democrat.
From: GUEST
Date: 01 May 15 - 01:18 PM

Okay, GfS, who do YOU want to be president?

And don't wimp out. Let's have a name!

And exactly WHY that particular person.

Subject: RE: BS: Bernie Sanders to run as Democrat.
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 01 May 15 - 01:14 PM

I'm glad Bernie will be part of the conversation and I hope Elizabeth Warren is heard from even if she doesn't run. It's time for a swing back to the left in the U.S., if it's not too late. First on the agenda should be overturning Citizens United. We really can't move forward if the likes of the Koch Brothers and Sheldon Addelson are able to unduly influence American politics with their enormous fortunes. 35 years of this "supply side" horseshit has been way too much and by now and even the poor working stiffs who swallowed it whole should be ready to spit it out. At least I hope enough of them will.

Subject: RE: BS: Bernie Sanders to run as Democrat.
From: GUEST,#
Date: 01 May 15 - 12:58 PM

"but, to each their own!"

That should be in this case 'to each his own'.

Not everyone agrees with you, regardless how right you think you are. Many of us have as much experience with political matters as you do. We sometimes see things differently. There are dreams and wishes in the political landscape; we all have them. I started this thread because I think Bernie Sanders is the best senator in the USA. That should clue you in as to where I'm coming from. There is though no chance Sanders could ever become president. The Corporations would assassinate him first.

Now, both of us have made our positions clear. Have a good day, and stop taking yourself so seriously. Life is much shorter than we think :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Bernie Sanders to run as Democrat.
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 01 May 15 - 12:42 PM

#: "Greg F is much more astute than that GFS. He recognizes that Hillary has the money behind her...."

...and I thought you'd be 'more astute' than THAT...considering....

From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 Apr 15 - 04:18 PM

#: "Small wind shifts can cause wide and unwelcome consequences. Backfires only work when the wind's in one's favour."

True....and that being said, wouldn't it be 'different' IF some of the politicians were as ABLE to represent the people. rather than being 'elected' by smooth talking, and very limited ABILITIES to represent the people, rather than ramming through agendas to the highest bidder??
As it is now, we all have the best politicians money can buy!!!...and that includes all the 'special interests groups' whose agendas are well hidden from the voters!!!


#: "And of course, as you have pointed out on occasion, people and corporations that invest in candidates DO expect "a little something" back after the election."

'A LITTLE'??????

#: "And as Greg says, it may move Clinton a bit to the left which would be a breath of fresh air for many folks."

So, being as you need to re-read something(see above, top)...

GfS, previous post): "(rolls eyes) Hillary is too far gone, into Corruption-Land, that the ONLY thing that would make you want to think so, is that she told you the right lie, that you wanted to hear!
True story."

#, your post was a disappointment, especially, coming from you! Hillary is making tens of millions selling out...that is her life!...that is her..... The salary for the presidency is a drop in the bucket to that. You don't think she knows what side her bread is buttered on??????????

BOTH the Bushes AND the Clintons are not fit to be president, for the same reasons....and ANY APPEARANCE that either of them are 'shifting' to ANYTHING, other than their 'special interests' is NOTHING but 'showtime'......but maybe you prefer 'the best politicians money can buy'........ but, to each their own!

Jeez!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Bernie Sanders to run as Democrat.
From: akenaton
Date: 01 May 15 - 08:50 AM

Kendal, these countries are not "socialistic"....they are "liberal democracies"

They all rely heavily on private investment, at the laws of capital apply.

Subject: RE: BS: Bernie Sanders to run as Democrat.
From: GUEST,#
Date: 01 May 15 - 08:35 AM

Greg F is much more astute than that GFS. He recognizes that Hillary has the money behind her. And of course, as you have pointed out on occasion, people and corporations that invest in candidates DO expect "a little something" back after the election. When average citizens invest in a candidate, what they expect back is good governance. Corporate sponsors want a little 'vig' (vigorish) for their money. It won't hurt to vote for Sanders in the primaries regardless who the Democratic Party chooses as its presidential candidate. And as Greg says, it may move Clinton a bit to the left which would be a breath of fresh air for many folks.

Subject: RE: BS: Bernie Sanders to run as Democrat.
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 01 May 15 - 12:14 AM

Greg F:"But perhaps Bernie can move Hillary towards a responsible position..."

(rolls eyes) Hillary is too far gone, into Corruption-Land, that the ONLY thing that would make you want to think so, is that she told you the right lie, that you wanted to hear!
True story.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Bernie Sanders to run as Democrat.
From: kendall
Date: 30 Apr 15 - 08:17 PM

If Diogenes had lived a few centuries longer, he might have found that honest man in Bernie Sanders.
I signed on with a donation to his campaign.

Socialism? what is wrong with REAL socialism? It's the right wing lies and ignorance that ban a government Of the people, By the people, and FOR the people from getting a toe hold here.
Some of the most successful countries in the world a socialistic; Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Germany and Bolivia.

What does socialism mean? It simply means of the people.

Subject: RE: BS: Bernie Sanders to run as Democrat.
From: Greg F.
Date: 30 Apr 15 - 06:49 PM

I think Bernie Sanders is the first good choice America has had since Eugene McCarthy.

Absolutely. A man of intelligence and integrity.

Unfortunately, that's the kiss of death in present-day Amerika, which has no need of intelligece or integrity - vide Ted Cruz, and the rest of the Republican clown-car circus.

But perhaps Bernie can move Hillary towards a responsible position...

I'm cautiously optimistic.

Go get 'em Bernie!! A real mensch!