BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: GUEST,Derrick
Date: 07 May 15 - 09:51 AM

There was and they did.
Why make the posts if you did not want comment.
I really do not see any point why.

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 May 15 - 09:13 AM

The media will publish anything relevant,it is up to the reader/listener to decide whether they believe it.

Believe what?
Two simple, brief statements of fact.
People were responding as if I had claimed something else.

"There was some real ISIS related Texas news."
There was.

"FWIW, ISIS have claimed responsibility for the gun attack."
They did.

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: GUEST,Derrick
Date: 07 May 15 - 08:46 AM

When your first post was disputed,people gave reasons why they didn't
think it was true.
You reposted the subject,when that was questioned,you kept on repeating yourself.
The media will publish anything relevant,it is up to the reader/listener to decide whether they believe it.
You raised the subject, people gave their opinions and said they doubted it was true.
What was the point of labouring the matter?

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 May 15 - 07:59 AM

No.
The media all carried the story.
It was completely reasonable and unexceptional to mention it in a relevant thread.

I did not deserve all that criticism.
You could have just ignored my posts and that would .have been the end of it.

This was the whole of my first post,
"There was some real ISIS related Texas news."

When that was disputed I just posted, "FWIW, ISIS have claimed responsibility for the gun attack."

Both simple statements of fact relevant to the thread title.

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 May 15 - 06:25 AM

"I am really not clear what I am being criticised for.
You tried to give the impresssion that the claim was genuine when there wan no evidence that is was - it's what you do
"Do you really think it is phoney, like two-headed calves and babies conceived by aliens Greg?"
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: GUEST,Derrick
Date: 07 May 15 - 06:22 AM

By repeating the claim even "FWIW" helps to give them credence.
To those of a gullible or nervous disposition it stokes their fear.
By doing so you help ISIS achieve its aim to spread fear.
The way to minimise terrorism is to not to feed it,carry on as normally as possible

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 May 15 - 05:58 AM

No-one claimed ISIS carried out the attack.
I knew they had not been trained by ISIS.
I just said ISIS claimed responsibility, "FWIW", and I checked my facts first.

I am really not clear what I am being criticised for.

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: GUEST,Derrick
Date: 07 May 15 - 05:30 AM

Yes Keith,no one is disputing ISIS claimed responsibility for the incident.
What we are saying is they did not carry out the attack.
They possibly encouraged some local sympathizers to do so.
Those people could have done the deed anyway,they were not armed or trained by ISIS.
ISIS claimed responsibility to give the impression to the gullible that their power extends to anywhere they chose.
The idea of terrorism is to spread fear and cause disruption to normal life patterns.

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 May 15 - 04:58 AM

I did not speculate.
I did check my facts.
ISIS did claim responsibility.

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: Teribus
Date: 07 May 15 - 12:37 AM

Two excellent posts:

Stilly River Sage - 06 May 15 - 12:15 PM

olddude - 06 May 15 - 03:17 PM

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: Musket
Date: 06 May 15 - 05:20 PM

It has to be right of course.. Keith's agenda demands it to be so.






Sorry, I was still laughing at Terribulus's amazing claim about military officers. We are well into May and I think I have just experienced the first cuckoo of spring.

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 May 15 - 04:36 PM

I agree, Dan. That was a great demonstration of calm under pressure.

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: olddude
Date: 06 May 15 - 03:34 PM

Dah Greg Fox News said it's hillary's fault

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: Greg F.
Date: 06 May 15 - 03:23 PM

I blame it all on Gorbachev.

If it hadn't been for him, we could still be blaming everything on the Commies.

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: olddude
Date: 06 May 15 - 03:17 PM

Hey that cop could shoot, took them both who were armed with ak47s down with a handgun.

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 May 15 - 12:15 PM

And just because numerous news sources have seen the speculation and reported it doesn't make it true. That's the trouble with news today - see a lie often enough and it must be true. Then you can repeat it with impunity. What ever happened to fact checking?

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: GUEST,Derrick
Date: 06 May 15 - 06:39 AM

ISIS are the people who have set up, by force, an Islamic state or caliphate in parts of Syria and Iraq.
They also encourage other people who sympathize with their ideology to
act in other places.
It was the sympathizers not ISIS who carried out the attempted attack,
there for ISIS are not responsible for the action,they merely suggested it.
Claiming responsibility is part of their propaganda program.

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: Teribus
Date: 06 May 15 - 06:39 AM

" a now deceased friend of mine once asked for an officer to put in writing an order that he thought inappropriate - and spent the rest of his service days being poorly regarded by the officer class. I can envisage that as wholly typical."

You are perfectly entitled to envisage what you like, but having never yourself, been exposed to life in the armed forces and having never had to live under Queen's Regulations what you envisage is pure surmise based on hearsay.

Your deceased friend provided that he performed his duties conscientiously and competently would not have been affected in the least by being poorly regarded by the "officer class" as you put it. Had he served in either the Royal Air Force or in the Royal Navy it wouldn't have matter a toss. In one of the instances where I refused to obey an order, in the immediate aftermath there were times when you could cut the atmosphere with a knife, that was until the chap tasked with looking into it explained his reasons for finding my actions correct and pointed out to all involved that I had saved them all from looking the biggest c**ts in creation before a Court Martial had I complied and blindly obeyed the order given.

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 06 May 15 - 06:22 AM

Mind you, the underlying point is that no invisible and imaginary friend should confer upon you any additional rights, liberties, privileges or immunities than apply in general. If your imaginary friend does not like drawings, then don't draw - but you have no right liberty or power to tell others what to draw or what not to draw (save as conferred by the general laws of the land).

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 May 15 - 05:34 AM

It is a fact that ISIS claimed responsibility.
That is all I have said up to now.

CNN this morning,
"The attack fits a well-known pattern of ISIS recruitment and incitement: encouraging sympathizers via a sophisticated social media campaign to join the fight in Syria or, if they cannot do that, to carry out terror attacks on their own at home, U.S. officials said Tuesday.

Simpson appears to have had online ties to a British ISIS recruit thought to be in Syria and an American jihadi operating in Somalia, according to a CNN analysis of tweets exchanged in the lead up to Sunday's attack.

U.S. investigators suspect Junaid Hussain, a British hacker now believed to be with ISIS, might have played a key role in inspiring the Texan gunmen, a U.S. official told CNN.

And a CNN investigation has established that Simpson was in communication via Twitter a week before the attack with a man believed to Mohamed Abdullahi Hassan, an American who traveled to Somalia in 2008 to join the al Qaeda-affiliated terrorist group Al-Shabaab.

Hassan, believed to be tweeting under the name of Mujahid Miski, also put out a call one week before the event to attack the drawing contest for pictures of the Prophet Mohammed in Garland, Texas."

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 06 May 15 - 03:43 AM

Al-Jazeera reports the IS claim. That might be thought to be somewhat credible.


Terry - a now deceased friend of mine once asked for an officer to put in writing an order that he thought inappropriate - and spent the rest of his service days being poorly regarded by the officer class. I can envisage that as wholly typical.

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: LadyJean
Date: 05 May 15 - 11:22 PM

Apparently Operation Jade Helm is going to take place in several states, Texas included.

In 1942, my dad spent some time driving a tank around Louisiana, with The First Armored Division. Not because Roosevelt wanted to subdue the Pelican State. They were preparing for the invasion of North Africa, probably not in the best location. But that's what they were doing.

I sometimes wonder how WWII would have ended if the Republican Party had the attitude they have now.

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 May 15 - 10:59 PM

Learn to read between the lines. Someone claimed to be connected to two crackpots who shot up an event center in North Texas. ISIL, IS whatever people are calling this self-named Islamic State entity, are building a force and hoping to train individuals from around the world to support their cause. Two idiots decide to take offense at a stupid event that the area muslims ignored and arrive to shoot it out. These two aren't examples of a trained fighting force, they're not an example of intelligence. They're doddering zealots who died when the odds were highly in their favor.

Perhaps ISIS spokesmen haven't thought about it and decided to claim the event, but it is just as likely that someone wants to make it look like ISIS is focusing on the US state of Texas and made the claim on their behalf. If the individuals investigating this in the US haven't made up their minds yet, I think we can dismiss UK news sources that make such a claim.

In my humble opinion.

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: GUEST
Date: 05 May 15 - 09:22 PM

This NY Times article discusses the connection the shooters had with ISIS members.

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 May 15 - 09:08 PM

It is a fact that ISIS have claimed responsibility, FWIW.

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: olddude
Date: 05 May 15 - 08:08 PM

It's the state that gave us the bushes. Need I say more

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: artbrooks
Date: 05 May 15 - 05:46 PM

Just what Gov. Abbott really expects the State Guard to do if this were some kind of threat to the people of Texas is questionable. They really aren't a military organization, and should not be confused with the National Guard.

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: GUEST,Derrick
Date: 05 May 15 - 05:43 PM

The American authorities say they do not think it was an ISIS action,if they played any role at all it may have been to sow the idea to act in the way the men did.
It was not an ISIS action,it was home grown.

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 May 15 - 05:40 PM

Just because your sources repeated it doesn't make it rational, Keith. They simply repeated it. Over here in Texas the claim has been met with skepticism and scrutiny.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 May 15 - 04:07 PM

I referred to BBC, ITV, Guardian and CNN.
They and other reputable sources all say that ISIS has broadcast the claim.
Do you really think it is phoney, like two-headed calves and babies conceived by aliens Greg?

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: Greg F.
Date: 05 May 15 - 02:37 PM

The news agencies thought it worth reporting the ISIS claim

The "News"[sic] agencies also think it worth reporting on two-headed calves, babies concieved by aliens and that Marco Rubio has a brain.

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: Wesley S
Date: 05 May 15 - 12:27 PM

If you havn't seen it yet here is a link to:


Greg Abbotts letter to the Texas National Guard

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: Wesley S
Date: 05 May 15 - 12:22 PM

And this just in from the Texas Tribune:


The state Senate on Thursday gave the green light to a proposal to designate one weekend a year when Texas shoppers would not have to pay sales tax on guns.

Senate Bill 228 by Sen. Brandon Creighton, R-Conroe, would create a sales tax holiday for firearms, ammunition and hunting supplies during the last weekend in August. Texas already has tax holidays for two other kinds of products: school supplies and energy-efficient appliances.

The proposed tax break — which Creighton calls a Second Amendment tax holiday weekend — would come one week ahead of hunting season and one week before a similar weekend in Louisiana. Texas would lose $3.6 million per year in tax revenue under the proposed legislation, according to an estimate from the Legislative Budget Board.

"Since 2009, retailers in east and southeast Texas have been at a competitive disadvantage when it comes to their Louisiana counterparts," Creighton said in a statement. "Providing this sales tax break prior to the start of hunting season will be an economic driver for small businesses and will provide our hunters much deserved savings."

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 May 15 - 11:29 AM

The news agencies thought it worth reporting the ISIS claim, but I gave it as FWIW.

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 May 15 - 10:35 AM

Someone who said they were from ISIS claimed responsibility - and if you believe that, I have a bridge to sell you. This is like Larry and Curly left on a terrorist attack without Moe. So poorly conceived and fatally flawed in execution as to make the planner a laughingstock.

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: Musket
Date: 05 May 15 - 09:36 AM

ISIS claim responsibility and the response of our resident wannabe soldier fool just shows why they feel opportunistic claims are as good as real ones..
zzzzzzzz.

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: Rapparee
Date: 05 May 15 - 09:18 AM

Opportunistic, that's all. And I wonder how many of the various attacks are actually 'suicide by cop'. Were I in ISIS I would chose the already depressed and suicidal for such missions.

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: GUEST,Derrick
Date: 05 May 15 - 08:49 AM

ISIS may have claimed responsibility,it would suit their agenda,the American investigators are still investigating the incident.
America has enough of its own extremists and head cases with out the help of ISIS.
If they (ISIS) are behind the incident, I don't think the authorities would hesitate to say so.
Let's wait and see

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: Teribus
Date: 05 May 15 - 08:12 AM

Bridge as part of your training in the armed forces you are taught very carefully on the subject of obeying orders and what constitutes a legal order and what constitutes an illegal order. In my own time in HM Forces on two occasions I refused to carry out orders that I considered to be illegal at the time, subsequent investigation into both cases proved that I was correct in acting as I did.

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 May 15 - 08:04 AM

FWIW, ISIS have claimed responsibility for the gun attack.

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 05 May 15 - 04:58 AM

Gee wizz, that US private had better be a pretty damned good constitutional lawyer.   Maybe even a judge in SCOTUS.

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: Rapparee
Date: 04 May 15 - 10:53 PM

I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

Uniform Code of Military Justice, sections as noted:

809. ART. 90. ASSAULTING OR WILLFULLY DISOBEYING SUPERIOR COMMISSIONED OFFICER.
Any person subject to this chapter who--
(1) strikes his superior commissioned officer or draws or lifts up any weapon or offers any violence against him while he is in the execution of his officer; or
(2) willfully disobeys a lawful command of his superior commissioned officer;
shall be punished, if the offense is committed in time of war, by death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct, and if the offense is committed at any other time, by such punishment, other than death, as a court-martial may direct.
891. ART. 91. INSUBORDINATE CONDUCT TOWARD WARRANT OFFICER, NONCOMMISSIONED OFFICER, OR PETTY OFFICER
Any warrant officer or enlisted member who--
(1) strikes or assaults a warrant officer, noncommissioned officer, or petty officer, while that officer is in the execution of his office;
(2) willfully disobeys the lawful order of a warrant officer, noncommissioned officer, or petty officer; or
(3) treats with contempt or is disrespectful in language or deportment toward a warrant officer, noncommissioned officer, or petty officer while that officer is in the execution of his office;
shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.
892. ART. 92. FAILURE TO OBEY ORDER OR REGULATION
Any person subject to this chapter who--
(1) violates or fails to obey any lawful general order or regulation;
(2) having knowledge of any other lawful order issued by any member of the armed forces, which it is his duty to obey, fails to obey the order; or
(3) is derelict in the performance of his duties;
shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.

FindLaw.org, on lawful orders:

Of all of these requirements, "lawfulness" is the most difficult, and the most important, to figure out. An order is "lawful" when it does not conflict with the U.S. Constitution or its laws, other military or admiralty laws, or international treaties binding on the U.S. Also, a lawful order is one which doesn't interfere with an individual's constitutional rights. All orders are presumed to be lawful (except patently unlawful orders, such as deliberately killing innocent civilians), and any service member that refuses to obey an order may be properly court-martialed.

However, if an order is unlawful, the service member who receives the order has a duty first to seek clarification of the order and, if still unlawful, to disobey it. A commander who issues an unlawful order is essentially ordering his subordinate to commit a crime, and the subordinate who obeys the unlawful order is just as guilty of the crime as the commander. That's the reason why the defense that soldiers "were just following orders" when they committed war crimes almost always fails.

However, this can be an ambiguous area for service members because whether an order is lawful is ultimately a question of law to be decided by a judge well after the fact. Also, a service member doesn't disobey an order by merely indicating an intention to do so. Instead, an order is disobeyed when the subordinate fails to perform the action described in the order.

In short, no, the orders wouldn't be obeyed.

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 May 15 - 10:44 PM

I predict that the officer (a traffic officer, I think they said) stood as the two opened up with assault weapons and killed each of them with his service revolver.

That's a remarkable story in it self, and I'm sure the man (?) is now meeting with his attorney to discuss all of the offers and gifts and honorariums and the movie deal . . . that's what happens with a heroic story like this.

http://keranews.org/post/officials-offer-update-deadly-garland-shooting

The updates indicate that a couple of guys who are hard core in their religion were going to get even by shooting up the convention of some who are very relaxed about what is sacrosanct and were there to participate in the cartoon convention.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: Wesley S
Date: 04 May 15 - 09:38 PM

Michael - Ever lived in Texas?

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: Don Firth
Date: 04 May 15 - 09:32 PM

If somebody started drawing insulting cartoons about Jesus, I'm sure there are plenty of people (some Texans especially!) who would be mad enough to rip that somebody's head off.

If you deliberately insult someone else's religious icon, you can damned well expect some followers of that religion to object to the point of wreaking violence.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: michaelr
Date: 04 May 15 - 09:15 PM

"Any Navy Seals or Green Berets that were given orders to imprison or kill American civilians would shoot the officer that gave them such an order. Don't people know that?"

I don't know that. Do you?

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 May 15 - 06:13 PM

No, it is not ISIS related news. It is 2 nuts from Arizona. That is all that is known so far.

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 May 15 - 06:02 PM

There was some real ISIS related Texas news.

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: Wesley S
Date: 04 May 15 - 05:51 PM

Hell - half the Green Berets and Seals are probably from Texas anyway. And they are supposed to overthrow their own state? Ridiculous.

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and the Seals/Green Berets in Texas
From: GUEST,Amos
Date: 04 May 15 - 05:16 PM

Sorry--that was I, at 5:15PM