Book - essays on Irish song

Subject: Folklore: Book - essays on Irish song
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 May 15 - 04:14 AM

In 2007 our local heritage society published a book,' Dear Far Voiced Veteran', in honour of Irish song collector, the late Tom Munnelly - a collection.
It comprised 25 essays (404pp) on mainly Irish - but also Scots, English and one on Indian traditional song, music and dance; among the authors were Nicholas Carolan, Hugh Shields, Fintan Vallely Margaret Bennett, Len Graham, John Moulden, Terry Moylan, David Atkinson.....
It is, as far as I'm concerned, an excellent overview of traditional song and singing, particularly in Ireland
It sold well in Ireland (despite its rather high published price) and more than paid for itself, but due to the cost of postage (a somewhat weighty paperback), it didn't make it abroad to the extent it should have.
The print-run was somewhat over-estimated and we are now left with a considerable number on our hands.
Rather than have them put down humanely, I'm pretty sure our Society would be happy to see them go for the cost of postage and a donation to, say, The Irish Traditional Music Archive in Dublin, of which, Tom Munnelly was one of the founders.
Suggestions wold be welcome
Jim Carrroll

Subject: RE: Book - essays on Irish song
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 18 May 15 - 02:48 PM

I already have a copy of this excellent book. If this is a definite offer, then perhaps post the message to the (UK) Traditional Song Forum etc?
Derek

Subject: RE: Book - essays on Irish song
From: MartinRyan
Date: 18 May 15 - 03:34 PM

Recommended

Subject: RE: Book - essays on Irish song
From: GUEST,Jim I
Date: 18 May 15 - 07:06 PM

Where are they, Jim?

I will be in Ireland for 2 weeks from 20th May and could perhaps pick up; thus saving even the postage cost.

Subject: RE: Book - essays on Irish song
From: michaelr
Date: 18 May 15 - 08:54 PM

I would like to own a copy, Jim. Please PM me about mailing to the US. Thanks!

Subject: RE: Book - essays on Irish song
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 May 15 - 03:28 AM

Will get a price to posting to the U.S. and let you know Michael
At present they are in our loft room in County Clare - (which particular rain-forest you be visiting while you're here Jim I?
For anybody visiting the Willie Clancy Summer School - we live in Miltown Malbay, and I hope to be involved in the singing classes on most days during the week.
Thanks for the suggestion Derek - will try the T.S.F.
Will happily post copies out to people who will pay postage - any donation to ITMA or wherever is up to them - have yet to agree this with the Heritage Society.
As Martin and Derek say - recommended; the articles include:
'From Texts to Work' - (David Atkinson); 'History, Heartbreak and Hope' recording the story behind the song - Newfoundland (Margaret Bennett): Songs in English from the Connemara Gaeltacht (Angela Bourke): 'The Talking Machine Comes to Ireland' (Nicholas Carolan); 'A Simple Countryman?' - Walter Pardon (Pat Mackenzie and Jim Carroll); 'Meeting Child on the Road' Len Graham; 'Collecting Sets in the Early days of the revival' (Terry Moylan); 'Singing the Famine', Joe Heaney (Lillis Ó Laoire and Sean Williams; 'Textual Criticism and Ballad Studies' (Hugh Shields); 'What Did we Singe Before There Were Folk Songs? (John Moulden).....
Fairly wide ranging   
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Book - essays on Irish song
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 19 May 15 - 03:41 AM

I'd be up for a copy, Jim, and a donation. I used to be a 'friend' of ITMA and knew Nicholas back in the 80s. I used to bring Irish related sheet music over for the collection. You should have my address but if not I'll email you it. How do we pay you for postage? PayPal?

Subject: RE: Book - essays on Irish song
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 May 15 - 05:20 AM

Run-down of postage from here:
Rest of Ireland - €7.00
U.K. €8-30
Ú.S. €11-55
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Book - essays on Irish song
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 19 May 15 - 05:26 AM

Jim, I would like to buy a copy - can you reserve one for me? Since I'm based in Ireland, could I just send you a cheque? Please either email or PM me the address to post it to. Thanks so much!

Bonnie

Subject: RE: Book - essays on Irish song
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 19 May 15 - 01:47 PM

Jim, do you have a PayPal account?

Subject: RE: Book - essays on Irish song
From: GUEST,Clive Pownceby
Date: 20 May 15 - 04:33 AM

Count me in too Jim - PayPal, as Steve suggests, would be an ideal method of payment. I'm in NW England.

Subject: RE: Book - essays on Irish song
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 May 15 - 07:50 AM

Will sort out the requests over the next few days
Not sure about the state of my PayPal account - around the last time I used it there was a bit of a kerfuffle in the press about privacy and they changed their policy - don't use it enough to have updated mine, but will have a look.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Book - essays on Irish song
From: Jim Brown
Date: 20 May 15 - 08:02 AM

I'd be interested in a copy too, if I can pay by PayPal. I'm in Romania, so I guess that's a different postage rate again.
Jim Brown

Subject: RE: Book - essays on Irish song
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 May 15 - 10:12 AM

"I guess that's a different postage rate again."
Got an idea that the U.S. rate given is actually an International one - will check
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Book - essays on Irish song
From: GUEST,Desi C
Date: 20 May 15 - 11:04 AM

I'd very much like a copy or two pleas mail me details at [e-mail]
Desi

Subject: RE: Book - essays on Irish song
From: Vic Smith
Date: 20 May 15 - 12:44 PM

A copy for me please, Jim.

Subject: RE: Book - essays on Irish song
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 20 May 15 - 04:56 PM

Jim, in order to qualify for International Book Rate, the item(s) must weigh a minimum of 3 kilos and a max of 5. And it's more expensive to send to the US than to Britain/Europe. AND - of course - the charges have taken an astronomical hike in a short space of time, well above any rate of inflation or cost-of-living increase.
#whatsnew

http://www.anpost.ie/AnPost/PostalRates/Sending+Books+Abroad.htm

Subject: RE: Book - essays on Irish song
From: michaelr
Date: 20 May 15 - 06:31 PM

PayPal would be the easiest way for me, but if it's too much trouble on your end, I could mail you a $20 bill.

Subject: RE: Book - essays on Irish song
From: GUEST,matt milton
Date: 21 May 15 - 05:58 AM

I'll definitely order a copy. Like others, I'd prefer to use Paypal, but I could post a cheque made payable to whoever you like

Subject: RE: Book - essays on Irish song
From: Felipa
Date: 21 May 15 - 06:47 AM

I'd like to buy a book. I'm in N Ireland.have pay pal account
so how much do I send to who/where? I suppose it's a hefty book, postage U.K. €8-30

Subject: RE: Book - essays on Irish song
From: GUEST,Chris Wright
Date: 21 May 15 - 06:55 AM

I'd like a copy too, please. PayPal is likewise best for me.

Chris Wright (e-mail: [firstname].[lastname]@ed.ac.uk)

Subject: RE: Book - essays on Irish song
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 21 May 15 - 06:58 AM

Folks from outside the Republic should be able to pay internationally by using a SWIFT bank transfer - though it means you'll need Jim's IBAN number (or whichever acronym it is - I get them mixed up).

I sell harp books abroad and have always found this a very satisfactory way of receiving payment. (As if there's an UNsatisfactory way of getting money...)

Subject: RE: Book - essays on Irish song
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 21 May 15 - 07:05 AM

There's also a method - at least from the U.K. - known as a BACS payment (they require the receiving bank's sorting/clearing code). Not sure what the difference is, but both work fine for me as recipient. My bank sends me an "Inward Payment" notice when the customer's money has safely landed.

Subject: RE: Book - essays on Irish song
From: GUEST,Clive Pownceby
Date: 21 May 15 - 06:35 PM

Speaking as a retired banker (ducks to avoid thrown missiles!) BACS -(Bureau Automated Clearing System)would be ideal but Jim would need to trust us with the bank details which Bonnie details. No charge to the sender and via Internet Banking, Jim would have the money in his account, usually within 2 hours.

Subject: RE: Book - essays on Irish song
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 22 May 15 - 04:31 AM

BACS appears to be just a U.K. facility (Clive, correct me if I'm wrong!) but SWIFT (Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunication) is definitely international. I assume these have replaced stuff like Bank Giro payments?

But Jim would still need to provide bank account details - I'm sure that's going to be the case with any internal transfer.

One could always get a certified bank draft in euro and post it, but I believe it's then negotiable for anybody who might get ahold of it...? Am I right in thinking that they would be as vulnerable as sending cash?

Hope we haven't scared Jim away . . .

Subject: RE: Book - essays on Irish song
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 22 May 15 - 04:45 AM

Or does the local heritage society who published this book have a bank account? Then it would at least not be someone's personal details.

I see that Paypal has just paid a huge fine for getting up to some dodgy dealing or other, so I would be wary of using them. I don't anyway, because they're a prime target for scammers. I get loads of fake "Paypal" spam in my inbox, which looks so genuine that I'd be scared of not being able to tell the difference. Only way I know it's phony is that I don't have a Paypal account.

Subject: RE: Book - essays on Irish song
From: Noreen
Date: 22 May 15 - 11:35 AM

Bonnie, just never click on any link in an unsolicited email, even if it looks genuine.

Subject: RE: Book - essays on Irish song
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 22 May 15 - 12:27 PM

I deleted them unread, unloved, and unmourned! B x

Subject: RE: Book - essays on Irish song
From: Noreen
Date: 22 May 15 - 12:38 PM

:)

Subject: RE: Book - essays on Irish song
From: GUEST,Clive Pownceby
Date: 23 May 15 - 04:56 AM

Yup, you're probably more up to speed on financial stuff than I Bonnie! I remember Banking when it was a profession (no, really) - just 'paying in and drawing out' as my first manager told me, and a better world for it!
I digress, but none of us is perfect.
Good to have this connection Ms Shaljean, - remember those Bothy gigs in the '70s at the Blundell Arms?
Okay Mudcatters I'll get back on track!

Subject: RE: Book - essays on Irish song
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 28 May 15 - 03:31 PM

Refresh.
Any news?

Subject: RE: Book - essays on Irish song
From: Richard Mellish
Date: 28 May 15 - 03:55 PM

One for me too, please. In my case it's probably easiest to post euro cash. Address to send that to?

Richard

Subject: RE: Book - essays on Irish song
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 May 15 - 07:46 PM

In hand - sorry - up to my eyes (really working against a deadline at present)
If anyone wants to send money in post (Sterling or Euro) it might speed things up a little.
As soon as I have confirmation that they are happy to do this and let me have an address, book will go in post (already sent one off)
Sorry for delay
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Book - essays on Irish song
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 29 May 15 - 11:35 AM

Are you OK for a cheque in Euro, drawn on an Irish bank? Made out to... ?

I really don't want to send cash

Subject: RE: Book - essays on Irish song
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 May 15 - 11:44 AM

Fine Bonnie - make out to J Carroll
Missed the post today - will go in Tuesday (Bank Holiday)
Jim

Subject: RE: Book - essays on Irish song
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 29 May 15 - 04:45 PM

Can you PM or email me your address? You already have mine, but I can send it to you again if you want. Cheers!

Subject: RE: Book - essays on Irish song
From: GUEST,Clive Pownceby
Date: 31 May 15 - 08:31 AM

I'd be happy to take a chance on posting cash Jim. Could you email me on [e-mail]
address and amount required? - Euros or sterling.

Subject: RE: Book - essays on Irish song
From: GUEST,Clive Pownceby
Date: 01 Jun 15 - 05:19 AM

Thanks for prompt reply Jim. The cash (marking a change from the mythical 'cheque') is in the post!

Subject: RE: Book - essays on Irish song
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 01 Jun 15 - 09:04 AM

Cheque in post this morning.

Subject: RE: Book - essays on Irish song
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Jun 15 - 09:47 AM

Steve
Need postal address - hope to put some in post tomorrw
You have my e-mail address, I think
Goesfor anybody who hasn't given me one.
You have a morning post?
"Cardboard box - you were lucky!!"
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Book - essays on Irish song
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 01 Jun 15 - 12:00 PM

Jim,
I sent you my address on the first email and it's with the cheque but I'll send it again anyway.

Subject: RE: Book - essays on Irish song
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 01 Jun 15 - 12:03 PM

Can't believe it!
Just tried to post a message on the Bell Accordeon thread about 10 times unsuccessfully, meantime I had a go at the above post and went up straight away. Crazy!

Subject: RE: Book - essays on Irish song
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Jun 15 - 12:54 PM

Sorry for the delay folks - back in the land of the living.
Posted a batch of books off today and will do some more as soon as I have addresses from those who want them so can all that definitely want them, let me know
Jim Brown - postage to Romania from Ireland is the same as to Britain - €8.50 (surprised me, might wrap myself in a parcel and send myself - always wanted to go)

The postal rates again, as I have them
Ireland €7.00
England €8.30
U.S.A. €11.55
Thomas Stern - found postal costs for parcel 3 - €36.50 (sorry 'bout that) so it's cheaper to send them separately rather than in one parcel.
Will e-mail those who have sent contact address
Sorry for the delay
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Book - essays on Irish song
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Jun 15 - 03:50 AM

Refresh

Subject: RE: Book - essays on Irish song
From: GUEST,Clive Pownceby
Date: 11 Jun 15 - 07:34 AM

Arrived safely today Jim. Many thanks.

Subject: RE: Book - essays on Irish song
From: michaelr
Date: 11 Jun 15 - 03:28 PM

One Andrew Jackson in the mail! Thanks, Jim, it looks to be a very interesting read.

Subject: RE: Book - essays on Irish song
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Jun 15 - 04:16 PM

A very kind offer, and I'd be happy to pay the post and a donation: but to whom? As an anonymous guest I can't PM you.

Subject: RE: Book - essays on Irish song
From: michaelr
Date: 12 Jun 15 - 12:14 AM

Well then become a member and Robert is your mum's brother.

Subject: RE: Book - essays on Irish song
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Jun 15 - 02:52 AM

Guest
Happy to oblige but am reluctant to put up an email address on forum as I've had problems in the past - particularly with B.N.P. hackers being creative with my personal information (rather proud of that one!)
If you don't wish to become a member, forum fairies like Stilly River Sage and Joe Offer have been helpful in the past in passing on information.
Sorry I can't be more helpful than that.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Book - essays on Irish song
From: Vic Smith
Date: 12 Jun 15 - 05:56 AM

Sympathy for Jim, especially as I am another who suffered from identity theft from BNP hackers - or from one particular individual who called himself a 'BNP Attack Dog'. Happily, things seem to have gone quiet on that front of late.

Subject: RE: Book - essays on Irish song
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Jun 15 - 05:59 AM

Thanks Vic - still need an address for you if you want a copy btw
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Book - essays on Irish song
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 12 Jun 15 - 07:21 AM

Vic, that's probably due to the fact that the said organisation has virtually gone out of business, along with its associated attack dogs. Unfortunately, there is still a poster on the Internet somewhere advertising yours truly as one of their candidates. I printed a copy off and put it up on the wall of a pub where we have a monthly singaround.

A bunch of drinkers, whom I hadn't previously taken much notice of, promptly went apoplectic. It turned out the were Italian anti-fascists. Fortunately, before they hacked my goolies off I was able to explain the joke to them and the fact that I'd put it because I was just about to sing an anti-fascist song.

The incident ended amicably, with comradely salutes and what not and before they left, they gave us a rousing rendition of Bandiera Rossa.

Subject: RE: Book - essays on Irish song
From: Vic Smith
Date: 12 Jun 15 - 09:15 AM

Thanks Vic - still need an address for you if you want a copy btw
Jim Carroll

Jim - sent you a PM with those details at 08:57 AM on 11 Jun 2015
Vic

Subject: RE: Book - essays on Irish song
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 12 Jun 15 - 10:51 AM

Got mine this morning, Jim. Now doubly in your debt. Many many thanks.

Subject: RE: Book - essays on Irish song
From: doc.tom
Date: 12 Jun 15 - 02:33 PM

Mine too! Excellent - many thanks Jim

Subject: RE: Book - essays on Irish song
From: MartinRyan
Date: 12 Jun 15 - 03:19 PM

"What did we singe before..." Lovely! Having gone to the (in)famous Synge Street School in Dublin, I rejoice in the smell of burning... (or "Byrneing" , maybe...)


Regards

Subject: RE: Book - essays on Irish song
From: Vic Smith
Date: 23 Jun 15 - 02:40 PM

A copy arrived in the post today.... before it was even paid for! I made sure that the payment was in the post straight away.
Thank you, Jim.

Subject: RE: Book - essays on Irish song
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Jun 15 - 02:48 PM

Thank yourself Vic
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Book - essays on Irish song
From: GUEST,Niamh
Date: 24 Jun 15 - 04:49 AM

Jim - can you keep me a copy - I'll see you in Miltown hopefully - otherwise Paypal is easiest for me - best way to send money these days.

Thanks Jim

Subject: RE: Book - essays on Irish song
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Jun 15 - 06:28 AM

Hi Niamh (Parsons I assume - all the other Niamhs I know only sing when they're drunk!)
Will have them if you are around during the Willie Week, otherwise, I'll bring one to Dublin next time were're there and leave on at The Goilín
I have one more request I have to deal with, so if there are any more, let ae know soon as Irish postal charges are due to go up shortly.
Present rates above
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Book - essays on Irish song
From: Vic Smith
Date: 24 Jun 15 - 08:04 AM

The very first song that I sang in a Folk club - it was 1964 in Beckenham - was The Jute Mill Song sung and written by Mary Brooksbank.
In 1969, I was delighted to hear her sing the song in the George Square Theatre in Edinburgh in a concert full of the great Scottish traditional singers. It was organised by the SoSS and compered by Hamish Henderson.
I had the chance to have a short conversation with her at the end of the concert and I was very impressed by her. I knew that she had been a union activist all her life but the only information that I had about her was the interview that the Dundee journalist and writer Maurice Fleming had conducted with her for Chapbook Vol.3, No.4: (1966) and the brief introduction to her book of poems and songs poetry and songs, which she eventually published also in 1966, in a collection called Sidlaw Breezes. The cost of the book was covered by Mary herself, and she lost money on it.

When Michael Marra was preparing a show for the Dundee Rep. on Mary and the jute mills, he was finding it difficult to gather information on her so he contacted me as he knew that I had met her. All that I could do, realistically, was to refer him to the two sources that I have mentioned.

As I wrote in a previous post, the copy of Dear Far Voiced Veteran arrived in the post yesterday. Imagine my delight, therefore, when I started reading it last night and the second article. by Margaret Bennett turned out to be in the main, a transcription of a long and detailed interview of Mary by Hamish in her home on 22nd May 1968. I know now a great deal more about this very important seminal figure than I did previously.

I have a feeling that there are going to be many more delights for me in this book.

Subject: RE: Book - essays on Irish song
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 24 Jun 15 - 03:18 PM

Before this thread runs its course, can I just draw people's attention to another publication by The Kifarboy Society.
I'm sure most folk buffs are aware of the magnificent work as a full-time collector Tom Munnelly did for U.C.D - many thousands of recordings of songs, tales and lore.
While we were helping sort out his things shortly after his death, we came across six box-files of what we thought were notes to the many lectures Tom gave on his work - they turned out to be scripts - Tom scripted all his talks.
These were digitised from hard copy and the Old Kilfarboy Society has published 15 of them in book form, entitled 'The Singing Will Never Be Done' (collected essays 1990 - 2007)
The subjects include: Tom's own experiences as a collector, Defining excellence, Junior Crehan (fiddle player), Travellers, Love and work songs, emigration, Napoleon.... a literary feast for anybody interested in Irish Traditional culture.
The fact that he gave them as talks (and Tom's own humour and love of the subject) mean they are refreshingly free of academic jargon and impenetrable academicism - a pleasure to read.
Anybody visiting Clare or Dublin can easily purchase a copy, or can order one via OKS
or
[e-mail]
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Book - essays on Irish song
From: Mr Red
Date: 25 Jun 15 - 03:34 AM

recent post on the (UK) Trad Music Forum

My 2006 PhD thesis - "The printed ballad in Ireland: a guide to the popular printing of songs in Ireland 1760-1920" is now available at DSpace. It has been assigned the following
identifier:

http://hdl.handle.net/10379/5020

It may be freely downloaded, quoted and cited. Could all citations also include the DSpace identifier?

John Moulden

Subject: RE: Book - essays on Irish song
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Jun 15 - 03:57 AM

Hi John - excellent news, what took you so long??
See you in a couple of weeks in Miltown, maybe?
Best to you both
Jim

Subject: RE: Book - essays on Irish song
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 25 Jun 15 - 05:22 PM

In case anyone is uncertain whether to get a copy of the book Jim is offering I can thoroughly recommend it. One of the most interesting papers (IMHO) is on Walter Pardon's life and songs by Carroll and Mackenzie.

Subject: RE: Book - essays on Irish song
From: Vic Smith
Date: 03 Jul 15 - 06:50 AM

Just finished reading it! It is a mighty, informative and stimulating read. I can only second Steve's praise for this varied and fascinating set of essays and add my opinion that anyone with a serious interest in traditional music should be seeking it out.
A big thank you to Jim for bringing it to my attention.