Folklore: Who's on your Folk Mt Rushmore?

Subject: Folklore: Who's on your Folk Mt Rushmore?
From: GUEST,Tony Gillespie
Date: 24 Jun 15 - 07:05 PM

Who would you add to your Mt Rushmore of Folk Music? You only have 4 spots. I'm getting stuck...I have Woody Guthrie and Pete Seeger, but after that, I'm bouncing back and forth...

Would love to hear your comments!

I've been thinking about it while I started a new Facebook page...it's all about folk music, memorabilia, lps, and history. If you are on Facebook, come join the group. We need more experts to make this site a success like Mudcat!

https://www.facebook.com/groups/thevillagefolk/

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who's on your Folk Mt Rushmore?
From: GUEST,just a-passin' through
Date: 24 Jun 15 - 08:08 PM

Woody Guthrie - the archetypal common man and the voice of the downtrodden.

Pete Seeger - the able student who brought old folk to new, progressive audiences.

Jean Ritchie - the authentic, dyed-in-the-wool bearer of a tradition that would have died.

Sara Makem - Tommy's mother, a fount of Irish/Gaelic tradition who was responsible for the seeds that would blossom into the resurgence of Gaelic folk song in the modern world.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who's on your Folk Mt Rushmore?
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 24 Jun 15 - 08:36 PM

The watersons, Martin carthy, June Tabor.....I struggled with number four, so many to choose from but finally settled on Frankie Armstrong . They all know how to sing a story and to me, that is what much of folk music is about .

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who's on your Folk Mt Rushmore?
From: GUEST,Gerry
Date: 24 Jun 15 - 10:02 PM

Wouldn't at least one of the four spots have to be reserved for Anonymous?

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who's on your Folk Mt Rushmore?
From: Vashta Nerada
Date: 24 Jun 15 - 10:13 PM

Jean Redpath, Burl Ives, Ed McCurdy, Jean Ritchie.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who's on your Folk Mt Rushmore?
From: Raggytash
Date: 25 Jun 15 - 03:08 AM

Working on the basis that Mount Rushmore is a travesty, destroying nature absolutely none at all.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who's on your Folk Mt Rushmore?
From: Mr Red
Date: 25 Jun 15 - 03:29 AM

nature destroys nature. The sculptures have had to be protected from nature quite recently. Weathering has opened cracks in the granite.


The mountain (according to Wikipedia) Lakota Sioux name: Six Grandfathers so there is room for 2 more and the precedent is for presidents ie IMNSHO:

FDR & JFK

Anyways, answering the OP: Guthrie & Seeger. And who could refuse Alan & John Lomax? And just to complete the Six Grandfathers and in the spirit of equality what about Mahalia Jackson & Odette?

Non-purists would howl for Dylan, but I put that in to be provocative.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who's on your Folk Mt Rushmore?
From: GUEST,Travesty?
Date: 25 Jun 15 - 07:31 AM

Not to disagree that it seems an odd thing to do, but a travesty, what of?

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who's on your Folk Mt Rushmore?
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 25 Jun 15 - 08:18 AM

I consider the carving of a mountain to be a travesty. I wouldn't carve anything onto a mountain, not even folkies.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who's on your Folk Mt Rushmore?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Jun 15 - 08:38 AM

It's a nice thought that the town of Boyle in Roscommon now hosts a statue of John Reilly - the Traveller who gave us'The Well Below the Valley'
This is somewhat spoiled by the fact that John would never have been served in any of the pubs there and he died of malnutrition in one of its derelict houses.
As Scots Traveller, Jeannie Robertson, was reported to have said; "they gave me the MBE but there was a time when they wouldn't serve me in any of their shops".
When local piper Willie Clancy died in the early part of 1973, instead of erecting a statue to him, the locals established an annual, week long, traditional music school which has played a major part in altering the fortunes of Irish music - we'll be there in a couple of week's time for the 42nd one.
Now that's the sort of monument I'd like to be remembered by.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who's on your Folk Mt Rushmore?
From: Rapparee
Date: 25 Jun 15 - 08:39 AM

Ann Ohnemus, over and over.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who's on your Folk Mt Rushmore?
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Jun 15 - 08:46 AM

Ann Ohnemus? Is that a real person?

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who's on your Folk Mt Rushmore?
From: Raggytash
Date: 25 Jun 15 - 03:40 PM

Still reckon it is tantamount to vandalism.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who's on your Folk Mt Rushmore?
From: GUEST,Joseph Scott
Date: 25 Jun 15 - 04:55 PM

Joseph Taylor (born Dec. 10, 1833)
Bascom Lunsford (born Mar. 21, 1882)
John Lusk (born October 12, 1889)
Almeda Riddle (born Nov. 21, 1898)

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who's on your Folk Mt Rushmore?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 25 Jun 15 - 05:54 PM

Norma, Mike, Lal, Waterson and Martin Carthy.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who's on your Folk Mt Rushmore?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 25 Jun 15 - 05:58 PM

Svend Grundtvig, Francis James Child, Cecil Sharp, Bertrand Bronson.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who's on your Folk Mt Rushmore?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 25 Jun 15 - 06:02 PM

Joseph Taylor, Harry Cox, Sam Larner, Paddy Tunney.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who's on your Folk Mt Rushmore?
From: GUEST,SqueezeMe
Date: 25 Jun 15 - 08:34 PM

Peter Bellamy, Bert Lloyd, Ewan MacColl and Louis Killen.

(Assuming the criteria is to be that they are sadly no longer with us...)

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who's on your Folk Mt Rushmore?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 25 Jun 15 - 08:57 PM

Yeah, I would think that folkies would cringe at the idea of carving up a mountain, and those honored would feel dishonored.

So, on my Imaginary Mount Rushmore, I think I'll carve folk people who have affected me directly and personally: Jean Ritchie, Sandy Paton, Art Thieme, Rick Fielding, Barry Finn....and Spaw.

Spaw is there for comic relief. You need that, too - even on mountain carvings.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who's on your Folk Mt Rushmore?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 25 Jun 15 - 10:42 PM

The Clancy Brothers and Tommy Makem. Nuff said.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who's on your Folk Mt Rushmore?
From: GUEST, ^*^
Date: 25 Jun 15 - 10:51 PM

Trouble with these lists - how many viewers would recognize the faces of these individuals? A Virtual Folk Mt. Rushmore should broadcast their singing voices . . .

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who's on your Folk Mt Rushmore?
From: Bert
Date: 26 Jun 15 - 01:31 AM

Lonnie Donnegan, Tom Paxton, Rick Fielding, Katlaughing.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who's on your Folk Mt Rushmore?
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Jun 15 - 02:12 AM

Skewball, Nellie the Elephant, Old Shep and Puff the Magic Dragon...

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who's on your Folk Mt Rushmore?
From: Sean Belt
Date: 26 Jun 15 - 09:50 AM

Gosh, it's hard to narrow it down to four.

Tommy Jarrell, Pete Seeger (of course), Roscoe Holcomb (because he's where it all started for me), and Texas Gladden.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who's on your Folk Mt Rushmore?
From: Sean Belt
Date: 26 Jun 15 - 09:54 AM

And if you want to include Folk Blues in the mix, I'd have to add Mississippi John Hurt, Blind Willie McTell, Howlin' Wolf and Mississippi Fred McDowell as well.

Maybe this imaginary monument could be carved into the make believe bluffs along the imaginary Mississippi River!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who's on your Folk Mt Rushmore?
From: GUEST,Tony Gillespie
Date: 26 Jun 15 - 11:38 AM

Awesome responses, guys and gals!! I appreciate the interaction!!

I get stuck...I would definitely have Pete and Woody, no question. Then I get stuck...being 38 years old, I feel compelled to add Bob Dylan because, quite honestly, I would not know who Woody, Pete, Odetta, Van Ronk, etc even were if it weren't for him. I don't believe the folk resurgence would have taken off like it did if it weren't for Dylan.

But it's hard to say Dylan is deserving without Ramblin' Jack Elliott...after all, it was Ramblin' Jack who taught Dylan the "Guthrie Style". Or Carolyn Hester, who introduced Dylan to Albert Grossman and Columbia. Or Joan Baez who introduced Dylan to Newport.

But then again, without Odetta would we have Baez? Or Bob Gibson, who brought Baez to Newport? Then, what about Lead Belly?

I love Mr Red's suggestion of the Lomax's, but what about Moses Asch? Or Izzy Young?? It would be difficult to minimize all of their contributions to the genre.

Then you have the different branches of Folk, Irish Folk songs, English, Scottish, etc and those off shoot's pioneers...I'm torn!!

https://www.facebook.com/groups/thevillagefolk/

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who's on your Folk Mt Rushmore?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 26 Jun 15 - 11:52 AM

Wait - Americans, I have rethought.

Joan Baez, Bob Dylan, Woody Guthrie, and Phil Ochs.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who's on your Folk Mt Rushmore?
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 26 Jun 15 - 12:08 PM

Did anyone mention Doc Watson? For me he's right up there with Woody and Pete.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who's on your Folk Mt Rushmore?
From: GUEST,Joseph Scott
Date: 26 Jun 15 - 12:38 PM

"I love Mr Red's suggestion of the Lomax's, but what about Moses Asch?"

Robert Gordon
Thomas Talley
Vance Randolph
John Harrington Cox
Frank C. Brown
Howard Odum
Mary Wheeler
Newman White
E.C. Perrow
George Mitchell
Harry Oster
Art Rosenbaum
Mark Wilson
Dorothy Scarborough
Frederick Ramsey
Zora Neale Hurston
Archie Green
Carl Sandburg
Josiah Combs
George Boswell
William Francis Allen
.
.
.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who's on your Folk Mt Rushmore?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 26 Jun 15 - 01:51 PM

That's getting to be a very full mountaintop. How 'bout if we have them all give us a grand concert on that mountain?

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who's on your Folk Mt Rushmore?
From: GUEST,Tony Gillespie
Date: 26 Jun 15 - 02:50 PM

Joe, you're right! A full mountain indeed! I didn't think narrowing down to just 4 would be possible, but I thought it would be an interesting discussion.

Maybe some parameters need to be set? Must be folk musicians, not historians, collectors or record company owners? Just musicians. Maybe those musicians that contributed greater than all others??

Loving the discussion, friends!!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who's on your Folk Mt Rushmore?
From: frogprince
Date: 26 Jun 15 - 06:35 PM

If the question were "Who rates a star on your Folk Walk of Fame", we would have quite an undisputed list already, and the walk could extend a long, long way.

If I have to say four: Woody, Pete, Ledbetter, Paxton. Allow me six, and I'll add Odetta and Joan Baez.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who's on your Folk Mt Rushmore?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 26 Jun 15 - 07:15 PM

Being UK , and more into contemporary than Trad I would incline to
Bill Caddick and Keith Marsden from UK , and Tom Paxton and Tom Lehrer from across the pond

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who's on your Folk Mt Rushmore?
From: Don Firth
Date: 26 Jun 15 - 08:36 PM

Here are selections that will make a few people cringe! Highly personal, this would be on my own little Mt. Rushmore up in the nearby park….

First choice, Burl Ives. He was the first folk singer I heard as an early teenager in the Forties—his Sunday afternoon radio program, "The Wayfaring Stranger." He would talk about events in American history and then sing songs connected with them. I particularly remember his show around the building of the Erie Canal. It made the whole thing come alive. I listened to Burl Ives a lot when I was younger—before I got interested in singing folk songs myself.

Then, Walt Robertson. I heard him live in an informal concert one evening at a restaurant in Seattle's University District when I was going to the University of Washington. I was one of the most enthralling evenings I had ever spent. I decide, I want to do that! A few days later, I met Walt in the restaurant and after some conversation, he agreed to get me started on the guitar. And he taught me a whole batch of songs.

Then, in 1954, Pete Seeger did a concert in Seattle and I wound up at an after concert party and met him there. The party went on 'til about 4:00 in the morning, with Pete and about five people, including me, sitting cross-legged on the living room floor, asking questions, singing songs, and passing the guitar around to each other. Unforgettable!

Then—fasten your seat belt!—Richard Dyer-Bennet. Early on, I was an opera fan and had taken some voice lessons myself, so cultivated voices didn't bother me. I was also taking classic guitar lessons (suggested by Walt Robertson). Dyer-Bennet had record some darned fine songs and I used his records a lot as sources.

Then, Mrs. Bianchi, with whom I had resumed singing lesson, and who taught one day a week at a college in Bellingham (some 80 miles north of Seattle) told me that Dyer-Bennet would be singing an assembly program the next Monday morning. I made it to Bellingham, listened to him sing a variety of songs for about an hour, then went backstage after the program where Mrs. Bianchi introduced me to Dyer-Bennet with, "This is the young man I told you about."

Richard Dyer-Bennet and I had a long conversation in which he asked me many questions and answered many questions of mine. He was very friendly, and encouraged me to continue my lessons in voice and classical guitar and, among other things, urged me to learn as much about the songs I sang and their backgrounds as possible, saying that it's the song that's important, not any assumed regional mannerisms. I learned a great deal from him, and the strength of my ambitions took a quantum leap.

I could line up a whole battalion of other singers, but these were the strongest influence on me early on.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who's on your Folk Mt Rushmore?
From: GUEST,Tony Gillespie
Date: 26 Jun 15 - 11:24 PM

Thank you, Mr Firth, for weighing in with such excellent explanations!

Thx to the others who have responded as well. It's great to hear from such brilliant folk minds! You guys are mentioning ppl I might have overlooked. I'm beginning to feel a little bit like a novice in comparison to a lot of you.

I must say, I'm a bit surprised Tom Paxton is getting so many nods, but Dylan isn't? Is Dylan somewhat shamed as a folkie because of his career path?? I would think he'd get more love than Burl Ives if we were basing it on choices they made...

Come join my folk group on Facebook!! You guys are great!!

https://www.facebook.com/groups/thevillagefolk/

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who's on your Folk Mt Rushmore?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 27 Jun 15 - 01:25 AM

Dylan went electric, Tony. How can we trust a man like that? ;-)

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who's on your Folk Mt Rushmore?
From: GUEST,Tony Gillespie
Date: 27 Jun 15 - 01:40 AM

Judas!! Ha ha!

At least he didn't name names, cough Burl Ives cough...

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who's on your Folk Mt Rushmore?
From: Mr Red
Date: 27 Jun 15 - 02:22 AM

Judas Priest? How folkie is that?

Ha Ha indeed!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who's on your Folk Mt Rushmore?
From: Don Firth
Date: 27 Jun 15 - 02:47 AM

Tony, not to drift the tread, but I think Burl Ives has gotten a bad rap from a lot of folkies who don't really understand what was going on. Ives didn't simply "fink" on Pete Seeger, Richard Dyer-Bennet, and others simply to protect his career as some who were not there have generally claimed. Every time the story gets told, the fish gets bigger.

The House Un-American Activities Committee was operating from a book called "Red Channels" that listed practically everyone in the entertainment industry, from Seeger and the Weavers, Ives, Dyer-Bennet, numerous actors, Larry Adler and his harmonica, even Leonard Bernstein and Aaron Copland. Burl Ives was one of the first folk singers to be called before the committee. He readily admitted to singing for labor unions and such, and when they asked him who he sang with, yes, he said Seeger, Dyer-Bennet, and others--because the committee already knew. To me, the telling thing is that when they asked Ives what his friends' political beliefs were, he responded, "Well, you know who my friends are. You'll have to ask them!"

When Pete Seeger took a different tack and simply defied the committee, Burl Ives was angry with himself because he wished that he had done that, but it hadn't occurred to him.   

The fact that some of we older singers who got interested in folk music well before the Kingston Trio came along sometimes think of Burl Ives as "Big Daddy"--long before his movie role in "Cat on a Hot Tin Roof."

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who's on your Folk Mt Rushmore?
From: GUEST,Tony Gillespie
Date: 29 Jun 15 - 02:49 AM

Thanks for that first hand account, Don, but I still think what he did, whether intentional or not, was self serving. I read that 2/3rds of the ppl spoken to DID NOT cooperate with the HUAC and it's questioning. Ives was in the minority... I still think he either did it to protect his career, or he was rather dim to not have it occur to him.

Of course, I wasn't there, and maybe (probably) my belief is skewed towards the Seeger account of things, solely because of my admiration of Seeger. Who really knows how history will remember Burl... time usually heals, though.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who's on your Folk Mt Rushmore?
From: Murpholly
Date: 29 Jun 15 - 06:40 AM

For us it would have to be the original five Dubliners who kept so much Irish and English Folk alive and re-introduced it to us all. But then O'Donohues in Dublin is better than a mountain because it does not destroy nature and we can enjoy a pint of the black stuff at the same time.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who's on your Folk Mt Rushmore?
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Jun 15 - 06:13 PM

The year is 2015 - thus -
The Ramones, Ledbelly, Woody Guthrie and Bob Dylan.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who's on your Folk Mt Rushmore?
From: frogprince
Date: 29 Jun 15 - 07:11 PM

No votes for Tom Waits ?

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who's on your Folk Mt Rushmore?
From: GUEST,Joseph Scott
Date: 29 Jun 15 - 07:35 PM

"The Ramones" For folk punk, there were the Fugs (wonderfully terrible, e.g. "Coca-Cola Douche"; their Ed Sanders called himself "punk rock" four years before the Ramones formed), the Holy Modal Rounders (terribly wonderful), and the Godz (terribly terrible).

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who's on your Folk Mt Rushmore?
From: Mr Red
Date: 30 Jun 15 - 03:10 AM

Folk? If any punk artist is allowed near a Folk Mt Rushmore - it should be Shane McGowan.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who's on your Folk Mt Rushmore?
From: GUEST,Roger Knowles
Date: 30 Jun 15 - 04:46 AM

Guthrie, Rambling Jack, Mike Seeger,Peggy Seeger

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who's on your Folk Mt Rushmore?
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jun 15 - 06:21 AM

Huddie Ledbetter, Charles Ives, Woody Guthrie, Doc Watson, Bob Dylan. If enough space left: Ornette Coleman...

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who's on your Folk Mt Rushmore?
From: GUEST,Desi C
Date: 30 Jun 15 - 08:21 AM

For me it'd have to be Towns Van Zandt, Luke Kelly, Hank Williams Snr, and Johnny Cash

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who's on your Folk Mt Rushmore?
From: GUEST,Joseph Scott
Date: 30 Jun 15 - 08:32 PM

"Folk? If any punk artist is allowed near a Folk Mt Rushmore - it should be Shane McGowan." I thought of him too, and then there's Jonathan Richman. And Prince Albert Hunt.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Who's on your Folk Mt Rushmore?
From: GUEST,Joseph Scott
Date: 30 Jun 15 - 08:50 PM

"Dylan went electric...." As did Fred McDowell, Mance Lipscomb, Hobart Smith, Bill Broonzy, Sam McGee, Thomas Shaw, Lightnin' Hopkins...