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Why action to end Systemic Racism can't wait
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Subject: Why action to end US Systemic Racism can't From: wysiwyg Date: 29 Jun 15 - 12:08 PM Read this and weep. Then don't spend too long doing that before you get busy. PRECIOUS CHILDREN ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: Why action to end Systemic Racism can't wait From: wysiwyg Date: 29 Jun 15 - 01:11 PM image: http://tftppull.freethoughtllc.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/police-kill-2-children-during-high-speed-chase-dont-stop.jpg "Officers must place the protection of human life above all other considerations." Detroit, MI — Or so says the official policy of the Detroit Police Department. Yet, on Wednesday, Detroit police continued a high-speed chase into a busy neighborhood, resulting in two small children being killed and others injured. Brother and sister Michaelangelo and Makiah Jackson, ages 6 and 3 respectively, were playing in front of their home when a police car appeared, chasing what appeared to be a red Challenger. According to eyewitnesses, the police car bumped the Challenger, and the car "flew up in the air." Witnesses heard tire squeals, as if the car was attempting to stop, but by then it was going too fast and had lost control and hit the two small children, killing them instantly. Read more at http://thefreethoughtproject.com/police-tear-neighborhood-stopping-chase-plowing-killing-children/#op6tsR4ZOqCbvl68.99 |
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Subject: RE: Why action to end Systemic Racism can't wait From: wysiwyg Date: 29 Jun 15 - 01:13 PM image: http://tftppull.freethoughtllc.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Jackson-family-6-25-14.jpg A friend of the family described the horrible scene: "[The police] were right on their rear, the police car bumped their tail a little bit, and the car flew up in the air," the friend said. "There was no need for the police to be that close. I yelled 'WATCH OUT' but it was too late. When the car hit them, both of them just looked at me. They screamed. It just keeps re-playing in my head. … I ran down there, I yelled out their names, but they were gone. Makiah's eyes were wide open, they died on impact." "I'm the last one they talked to. They looked at me, they were here, I saw their faces. L'il Mama (Makiah) thought I was going to take them to the park, so she came with me to the sidewalk. I told her I promise I'll take you to the park tomorrow." Even after the car had dragged the children a distance down the street, the police did not stop their pursuit. They continued to chase the car across one front lawn after another, finally crashing, critically injuring three more children including three year old Darius Andrews, Jr., Isaiah Williams, 5, and Zyaire Gardner, 7. Twenty-two-year-old LaKendra Hill sustained injuries. The father of the youngest called seven-year-old Zaire "the real hero," adding, "He saved my son's life. He grabbed him and tried to hold him." |
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Subject: RE: Why action to end Systemic Racism can't wait From: GUEST Date: 29 Jun 15 - 01:27 PM Some children were run over in a police chase. The article calls Detroit police practice in car chases into question but the text makes no mention of the race of the pursued, the victims or of the police officers. |
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Subject: anymod help request, blickifying image links above From: wysiwyg Date: 29 Jun 15 - 02:31 PM Post above deleted
Please no shaming in this thread. The subject matter is a tragedy, not a flaming/shaming opportunity.
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Subject: RE: Why action to end Systemic Racism can't wait From: Richard Bridge Date: 29 Jun 15 - 05:19 PM Perhaps the Challenger should have stopped. |
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Subject: RE: Why action to end Systemic Racism can't wait From: Greg F. Date: 29 Jun 15 - 05:29 PM Perhaps the mods should have deleted the idiotic guest post of 29 Jun 15 - 01:27 PM as well,eh? Nothing to do with "shaming" - everything to do with confronting idiotic nonsense. |
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Subject: RE: Why action to end Systemic Racism can't wait From: Donuel Date: 30 Jun 15 - 12:27 AM Systemic racism needs to address; Bail reform court fees leading to perpetual jail extortion of innocent people to plead guilty sub prime fraud red lining white supremacy cops Grand jury for every murdered black man woman or child. Stop electing prosecutors. body cams, face cams no more street line ups stop hide and swoop cut back swat attacks by 90% to 70 levels stop leaving dead black bodies in the street for 6 hours Fire abusive cop 1st time he costs the county or state settlement money. |
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Subject: RE: Why action to end Systemic Racism can't wait From: GUEST,Stim Date: 30 Jun 15 - 12:48 AM It's Detroit, Guest. |
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Subject: RE: Why action to end Systemic Racism can't wait From: wysiwyg Date: 30 Jun 15 - 08:22 AM That's a great list, Donuel! What is hide n swoop? ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: Why action to end Systemic Racism can't wait From: GUEST, ^*^ Date: 30 Jun 15 - 09:03 AM "Hide and swoop" sounds predatory, and probably isn't as simple as motorcycle police hiding behind highway billboards to catch speeders. |
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Subject: RE: Why action to end Systemic Racism can't wait From: wysiwyg Date: 30 Jun 15 - 01:02 PM Below is another list, from Jerusha's final speech in the film of Michener's Hawaii. Abner enters the scene, disgusted and stricken at the deadly plague among the indigenous people, which is near to wiping out the already-diminshed-by-"colonization" population and culture. Abner: "These things are God's will… not mine! What else but God's wrath has the power to annihilate them?!?!" (Abner has been stuck in Biblical literalism. His wife wakes him up with a stirring speech, part of which includes): Jerusha: "Disease…. Despair… Our lack of love… Our inability to find them beautiful. Our contempt for their ways…. Our lust for their land…. Our greed. Our arrogance. That is what kills them, Abner." ========================================= OK, so how do we deal with that, people? You can see the same arrogance offered to young minds daily, in mainstream media. ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: Why action to end Systemic Racism can't wait From: Donuel Date: 30 Jun 15 - 10:50 PM I meant to say stop elections of district attorneys. |
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Subject: RE: Why action to end Systemic Racism can't wait From: Greg F. Date: 01 Jul 15 - 11:05 AM US police killings headed for 1,100 this year, with black Americans twice as likely to die Oliver Laughland, Jon Swaine and Jamiles Lartey in New York Wednesday 1 July 2015 08.39 EDT Police in the United States are killing people at a rate that would result in 1,100 fatalities by the end of this year, according to a Guardian investigation, which recorded an average of three people killed per day during the first half of 2015. The Counted, a project working to report and crowdsource names and a series of other data on every death caused by law enforcement in the US this year, found that 547 people had been killed by the end of June. In total, 478 of those people were shot and killed, while 31 died after being shocked by a Taser, 16 died after being struck by police vehicles, and 19 – including 25-year-old Freddie Gray in Baltimore – have died after altercations in police custody. When adjusted to accurately reflect the US population, the totals indicate that black people are being killed by police at more than twice the rate of white and Hispanic or Latino people. Black people killed by police were also significantly more likely to have been unarmed. |
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Subject: RE: Why action to end Systemic Racism can't wait From: GUEST,Squeezer Date: 01 Jul 15 - 02:07 PM A dreadful incident, but I can't understand the "systemic racism" in the thread title. Surely these children were killed and injured by reckless dangerous driving, not racial discrimination? Aren't there guidelines in Michigan about high speed pursuits, especially in urban areas? Is the police driver going to be prosecuted for causing death and injury by dangerous driving, and if not, why not? From the British perspective, it is continually mystifying as to why American police officers who kill with guns, cars, or fists are not prosecuted. Despite the riots and demonstrations, the impression we get is that it is just accepted in the US that police may shoot people who are running away or beat them up if they resist arrest. I sometimes watch TV programmes of police videos from different countries, and the attitude of American police drivers is horrifying. It's not uncommon to see several police cars trying to cause an escaping vehicle to crash. Here, that would be illegal. There, it seems that it's what the police are supposed to do. |
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Subject: RE: Why action to end Systemic Racism can't wait From: wysiwyg Date: 01 Jul 15 - 02:42 PM Great questions, Squeezer. A dreadful incident, but I can't understand the "systemic racism" in the thread title. Surely these children were killed and injured by reckless dangerous driving, not racial discrimination? The system we have in the US includes routinely writing off poor people, Black people, and brown people. Therefore when a high sped chase goes thru such a neighborhood, and eyes don't 'see' the lives resident as precious, we get results like this. In the US education system, people (of all colors) are taught a skewed history that keeps our power systems of each generation in place. Because the system itself is contaminated throughout with the nation's unresolved history (and our unacknowledged pattern of unfairness benefiting white people), any laws and policies are also skewed for white survival, not Black survival. (IMO this 'accident' could/would never have occurred in an affluent white neighborhood.) Aren't there guidelines in Michigan about high speed pursuits, especially in urban areas? Is the police driver going to be prosecuted for causing death and injury by dangerous driving, and if not, why not? Of course there are guidelines in Michigan about high speed pursuits, but they are not always followed fairly. It's hard to understand without experiencing the US's much-greater population of US cities. The driver can only usually face police departmental discipline, due to he many layered processes here, and the racism inherent in each step of the processes. So far, the driver that was eluding the police has bee charged, because that is a much easier burden of proof than would be pursuing charges against the officer... and because the driver (I believe of Hispanic heritage) might be thought to be qood target to deflect the Black residents' outrage. ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: Why action to end Systemic Racism can't wait From: GUEST,Squeezer Date: 01 Jul 15 - 04:16 PM Under the British legal system (as I understand it) an inquest on the deaths would be held in a coroner's court, and a decision made as to whether the deaths were lawful or not. If the decision is unlawful killing (as a result of dangerous driving) a prosecution would automatically follow. Does this resemble the procedure in Michigan? Are there any state or national organisations which represent people of colour (I hope that's the acceptable term - defining minority groups can be something of a minefield) with enough funds to mount a legal case on behalf of the families? One line of attack could be with the aim of requiring the state judiciary to show cause as to why the police driver should NOT be prosecuted. If the responsible authority in Michigan (would that be what you call the DA?) is unable to show cause (e.g. if it can be shown that the police driver ignored guidelines, and the chase was not an emergency where another person's life was at risk), then I suppose there is prima facie evidence of wrong-doing, and the Michigan would have no choice but to put the officer on trial for dangerous driving. Another legal case could be for a private prosecution for damages. Of course, the families don't want to make money out of the deaths and injuries to their children, but it would force the driver to be publically questioned, force the police department to release evidence, and generally force everyone - police, judiciary, news media, and the community at large - to focus on what goes on in the mind of an young man who is given a gun, a badge, and a powerful car. If he is made personally and financially responsible for these deaths and injuries, perhaps in future police drivers will think twice about ignoring their own guidelines. Do you think there is any mileage in this? |
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Subject: RE: Why action to end Systemic Racism can't wait From: wysiwyg Date: 01 Jul 15 - 07:02 PM Briefly, Squeeze, 'not so much' on the inquests and 'yes kinda' on the rest. I would love to correspond more. How might we do that? ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: Why action to end Systemic Racism can't wait From: GUEST,Squeezer Date: 02 Jul 15 - 05:32 AM WysiwyG! I've asked for a cookie and will PM you when its plugged in or baked or whatever they do in Mudland. |
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Subject: RE: Why action to end Systemic Racism can't wait From: wysiwyg Date: 02 Jul 15 - 07:29 AM Thanks Squeezer! I PM'D you, and/or can be found looking for you at the Mudcat Cafe looking for you there). Have resources already stored at FB to share, but will be off FB thru Monday. ~Susan |
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Subject: anymod blickyhelp? From: wysiwyg Date: 07 Jul 15 - 03:10 PM Been enjoying PM convo with Squeezer. Thoughtful and thought-provoking! Here is one problem with the US justice system, systemically speaking: http://m.dailykos.com/story/2015/07/07/1399986/-New-study-finds-that-an-astounding-95-of-elected-state-local-prosecutors-are-white-79-white-men ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: Why action to end Systemic Racism can't wait From: Donuel Date: 08 Jul 15 - 10:59 PM There is a very important action to end systematic racism The Governor of NY made an executive order today to have an independent investigation whenever anyone is killed by the police. District attorneys no longer will be able to do the bidding of the police. No hand picked grand jury or automatically calling a strangled to death victim by the police, no crime. They used to say; Its the victims fault, "no one is guilty here, move along, no charges will be filed... tthis is a BFD |
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Subject: RE: Why action to end Systemic Racism can't wait From: Bill D Date: 09 Jul 15 - 08:46 PM This IS a BFD and the new executive order in N.Y. is a good step toward better all-round justice! Humans from little kids to police to governors often try to paint their involvement in best possible light..."But Mommy, he looked mean at me!" We can try to teach little kids in gentle ways... officials need other officials and the public to hold them to a high standard. |
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Subject: RE: Why action to end Systemic Racism can't wait From: Greg F. Date: 10 Jul 15 - 05:27 PM Meanwhile, in South Carolina Click Here |
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Subject: RE: Why action to end Systemic Racism can't wait From: Greg F. Date: 29 Jul 15 - 09:17 PM University of Cincinnati cop charged with murder in traffic-stop shooting July 29, 2015 Associated Press A University of Cincinnati officer who shot a motorist during a traffic stop over a missing front license plate was indicted Wednesday on a murder charge, with a prosecutor saying the officer "purposely killed him" and "should never have been a police officer." Hamilton County prosecutor Joe Deters announced the grand jury indictment at a news conference to discuss developments in the investigation into the July 19 shooting of motorist Samuel DuBose [Black] by Officer Ray Tensing [White]. |
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Subject: RE: Why action to end Systemic Racism can't wait From: Wesley S Date: 29 Jul 15 - 10:41 PM Changing the subject some - here in Georgia I've noticed that the folks who tend to fly the confederate flag usually do so on beat up pickup trucks. And when I see it displayed at a residence it's always been on a single wide mobile home. It's as if you have to be poor to support that losers flag. Why do we never see it flying outside a mansion. Or on a Mercedes - even a new Ford? |
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Subject: RE: Why action to end Systemic Racism can't wait From: Joe Offer Date: 30 Jul 15 - 01:36 AM Donuel's list has some good points. I think that it's important to remember that "systemic racism" is hard to detect - even those responsible may not realize the racism involved. A positive approach may be far more effective that "clamping down" on what may or may not be racism. One would think that the Detroit Police Department would be very sensitive about racial matters, since Detroit has been a black-majority city for so long. But cops will be cops, and they tend to get carried away when they're involved in chases. Young cops tend to be heavy on adrenaline and testosterone, and a little light on experience and patience. I'm sure we've all seen irresponsible driving of police and other emergency vehicles - I saw some of that just last week. I think there's a good chance there was no racism involved in the Detroit incident, but it was certainly bad judgment on the part of the officers - and quite possibly criminally bad judgment. I have to say I was surprised to see so many white police officers last time I was in Detroit (2010). I had assumed that the vast majority would be black. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: Why action to end Systemic Racism can't wait From: Greg F. Date: 30 Jul 15 - 08:03 AM And just in case anyone thinks Black folks are the only victims: In Wyoming, Shooting Highlights Divide Between a City and a Reservation By JACK HEALY, New York Times, JULY 29, 2015 RIVERTON, Wyo. — Roy Clyde was sick of the homeless people who linger in this city's parks, urinating in public and drinking bottles of vodka and mouthwash, he told the police. So on a recent afternoon, the police say, he grabbed his handgun, walked into an alcohol detox facility called the Center of Hope and shot two men as they lay on green floor mats, killing one and critically wounding the other. Local officials called it a senseless attack on society's most vulnerable fringe. But Mr. Clyde, a city parks worker, was white, and the victims were American Indians, members of the Northern Arapaho Tribe. Tribal officials here on the edge of the two-million-acre Wind River Reservation saw the shooting as a hate crime that added another page to a long history of violence and mistrust here in Indian Country. "There's a lot of animosity toward the Indian people," said Dean Goggles, the chairman of the Northern Arapaho Tribal Business Council. "It's always been there."....... http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/30/us/in-wyoming-shooting-highlights-divide-between-a-city-and-a-reservation.html?_r=0 |
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Subject: RE: Why action to end Systemic Racism can't wait From: Greg F. Date: 30 Jul 15 - 09:11 AM But cops will be cops, and they tend to get carried away.. Uh-huh. Is that like 'boys will be boys', Joe? Urban Dictionary BOYS WILL BE BOYS What soccer moms say when their son has just done something AWFUL. This statement implies that any negative behavior should be excused on the grounds that boys are always doing things that are wrong, and need to be treated with a degree of leniency that borders on insanity. Bystander: Oh my God, that kid is raping a nun!! Soccer Mom: (Fake Laugh] Oh, well, you know. Boys will be boys. I'm sure he just had a hard day at school. |
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Subject: RE: Why action to end Systemic Racism can't wait From: Richard Bridge Date: 30 Jul 15 - 11:49 AM I would have thought that First Americans, like Afrikans, fell into the category of "Black". |
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Subject: RE: Why action to end Systemic Racism can't wait From: Greg F. Date: 30 Jul 15 - 11:58 AM Not so, Richard, to the bigots they may be 'wogs'(which, as I recall, begin at Calais), but they're not "Black". |
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Subject: RE: Why action to end Systemic Racism can't wait From: MGM·Lion Date: 30 Jul 15 - 02:31 PM As I am interested in semantics, could someone enlighten me, please, as to what tendentious point is being made, or unacceptable nominative iniquity being exposed, by this affectation of using a k instead of a c in the conventional designation of the descendants of those emanating from the large equatorial continent situated between the Atlantic & Indian Oceans? ≈M≈ |
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Subject: RE: Why action to end Systemic Racism can't wait From: GUEST Date: 30 Jul 15 - 04:27 PM I was wondering that too, so I Googled it. According to the first hit it goes something like this why-do-some-people-spell-africa-with-a-k |
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Subject: RE: Why action to end Systemic Racism can't wait From: GUEST Date: 30 Jul 15 - 04:32 PM Though the etymology on Wikipedia suggests that the original name in europe may have had a 'c'. |
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Subject: RE: Why action to end Systemic Racism can't wait From: GUEST,# Date: 30 Jul 15 - 10:01 PM "As I am interested in semantics, could someone enlighten me, please, as to what tendentious point is being made, or unacceptable nominative iniquity being exposed, by this affectation of using a k instead of a c in the conventional designation of the descendants of those emanating from the large equatorial continent situated between the Atlantic & Indian Oceans? The French spell it Afrique. |
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Subject: RE: Why action to end Systemic Racism can't wait From: Joe Offer Date: 31 Jul 15 - 12:52 AM Yes, Greg F, I intended "cops will be cops" to parallel "boys will be boys." And if you read my entire statement instead of attacking an excerpt, it will be very clear to you what I mean. I think that police officers are often criminally negligent in high-speed chases, and sometimes a manslaughter charge is warranted. However, I don't think the chase in Detroit is likely to have been motivated by racism. Don't try to put words in my mouth...and take the foot out of yours, willya? -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: Why action to end Systemic Racism can't wait From: Joe Offer Date: 31 Jul 15 - 02:12 AM ..and since "cops will be cops," it's far better to have a near-complete prohibition on chases, rather than trying to assess the blame after the damage has been done. I should have made that point more clear before. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: Why action to end Systemic Racism can't wait From: MGM·Lion Date: 31 Jul 15 - 05:01 AM Further to the c/k bit: it is Afrika in German, and the Germans have exploited parts of the continent just as much as the British or the French. They exterminated the Herero tribe in present-day Namibia (then German South-West Africa) in 1907, for instance -- look it up in Wikipedia. So I still don't see what point anyone may think they are making with this tendentious and affected orthography. ≈M≈ |
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Subject: RE: Why action to end Systemic Racism can't wait From: MGM·Lion Date: 31 Jul 15 - 05:03 AM ... or even the Belgians! |
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Subject: RE: Why action to end Systemic Racism can't wait From: Greg F. Date: 31 Jul 15 - 06:55 PM it will be very clear to you what I mean. No Joe, it wasn't at all clear what you meant. Your posts of 12:52 AM & 2:12 AM 31 Jul 15 cleared things up a bit, for which thanks. As for "putting words in your mouth" YOU used the 'boys will be boys' analogy and I assume you knew what it meant before you used it. If not, that's not my problem. And I still can't see how you can dismiss out of hand the idea that an undercurrent of racism - especially in Detroit with the makeup of the police force and the city's history- had something to do with this incident. |
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Subject: RE: Why action to end Systemic Racism can't wait From: Don Firth Date: 02 Aug 15 - 02:06 AM There are some areas in this country where the fact that we have a black president is their worst nightmare come true. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: Why action to end Systemic Racism can't wait From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 02 Aug 15 - 02:43 AM OK...but I don't think you could label that as 'systemic'...rather regional and backwards! GfS |
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Subject: RE: Why action to end Systemic Racism can't wait From: Joe Offer Date: 02 Aug 15 - 04:31 AM In my 30 years as a government investigator, I did thousands of background investigations, and many were on police officers. I also investigated complaints of discrimination in employment, and I served as a federal election observer under the Voting Rights Act. I think I know police agencies and police work quite well, and I came to know the issue of discrimination quite well. I retired over ten years ago, but I've spent a lot of time the last four years working on the issue of mass incarceration, and that has required me to study a number of police agencies. There is no doubt in my mind that racial prejudice exists in almost every police agency in the United States, as it exists in most segments of our society. In most agencies, it is what I would call "occasional," but even in the best agencies I have heard comments from officers that were blatantly racist. I think I have encountered incidents of racial prejudice more often in police agencies than I have in other segments of society, and I'm not sure of the reason for that. Still, it was never at the point where I would say that racism was widespread or "systemic" in any of the agencies I've studied. On the other hand, I've read a lot on the subject, and that has made it clear to me that there are some police agencies, not only in the South, where racism may well be "systemic." I've seen many instances of police misconduct where racism may indeed have been a factor; but only a handful where I would say that racism was the primary causative factor in the incident. In most cases, police misconduct is just misconduct, and racism is just one of many causative factors. I mentioned many of those factors above:
Two very important things would be to strictly regulate the use of weapons (including Tasers) and the use of high-speed chases - and full documentation and review of all incidents involving weapons or chases. I'd like to see a requirement for authorization of handgun use and chases from a supervisor two levels above the officers involved, whenever practical. Perhaps it would work to require immediate suspension and investigation of every officer involved in weapons use or a chase - not allowing the officer back to work until there's at least a preliminary determination that the action was justified. It's also essential that jail facilities be strictly supervised, to the point where officers and inmates are not able to do anything unobserved. My criminal justice advocacy group is working with our county on developing a system of constant analysis of the law enforcement agencies in our county, from police agencies to the district attorney and courts to the jail. We've found that it's far too easy for law enforcement functions to do what they do without outside observation, and it has often been difficult for us to obtain data that will tell us what is actually happening in our law enforcement system. The public and the press and the county board of supervisors get very incomplete information, so we tend to make decisions based on anecdotal evidence. Yes, I believe that there is widespread misconduct and mismanagement in U.S. police agencies, and perhaps we have trusted our police agencies too much. They need to be under constant scrutiny by the public, by the press, and by elected officials - and all elements of secrecy must be eliminated from the law enforcement system. Yes, there is racism in U.S. law enforcement - but it is only the tip of the iceberg. We need to look a lot deeper. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: Why action to end Systemic Racism can't wait From: akenaton Date: 02 Aug 15 - 05:19 AM Yes, its very easy to stand back and hurl abuse at law officers who have a very difficult and dangerous job to do, especially in the US where guns are so readily available to criminals. I have been reading that the vast majority of people found guilty of violent crime in America are black, does this not probably have some bearing on police attitudes, no matter how well trained and impartial they are supposed to be. They are human just like the rest of us, if their buddy is killed or maimed by a criminal, the psychological marks will be there for ever. It is a complex problem, not just the simplistic twaddle we hear so often from the "egalitarian elite". they say that the discrepancy in crime rates are down to living standards, and there is some truth in that, but violent crime needs an extra ingredient. |
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Subject: RE: Why action to end Systemic Racism can't wait From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 02 Aug 15 - 05:41 AM Joe, Your post was brilliantly put forth, and impartial nor biased. Great Post!!......and, I agree wholeheartedly! ....as long as we're on this, I'd like to throw this out there, you posted, "They need to be under constant scrutiny by the public, by the press, and by elected officials - and all elements of secrecy must be eliminated from the law enforcement system." I'd like to add, so do our politicians, 'special interests', bankers, conglomerate corporations, and those making international decisions. ...and/or???? Regards!! GfS |
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Subject: RE: Why action to end Systemic Racism can't wait From: akenaton Date: 02 Aug 15 - 06:28 AM Very good point Sanity! |
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Subject: RE: Why action to end Systemic Racism can't wait From: Greg F. Date: 02 Aug 15 - 09:42 AM OK, Joe, post of 02 Aug 15 - 04:31 AM is more like it. Especially "Yes, there is racism in U.S. law enforcement - but it is only the tip of the iceberg. We need to look a lot deeper." Thanks. Greg |
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Subject: RE: Why action to end Systemic Racism can't wait From: GUEST, ^*^ Date: 02 Aug 15 - 10:27 AM I have been reading that the vast majority of people found guilty of violent crime in America are black, does this not probably have some bearing on police attitudes, no matter how well trained and impartial they are supposed to be. Ake, two problems. Find a more comprehensive source of news - with reliable numbers. What you mis-understood in that reading is that the number of African Americans found guilty is DISPROPORTIONATE to the total number of gun cases and to the percentage of the population. White defendants are let off more often or are given less harsh punishments. Also, you can stop bashing Hillary. She's no Margaret Thatcher. |
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Subject: RE: Why action to end Systemic Racism can't wait From: akenaton Date: 02 Aug 15 - 11:58 AM I must give my views as I see them GUEST. Hillary didn't get the username "the Hawk" for nothing. She is no better morally than Mrs Thatcher, and not an inch of the politician. President Obama made a serious mistake in involving the Clintons in his administration, halving his credibility at a stroke. President Obama was obviously unwilling to become involved in the "Arab Spring" nonsense, it was HtH who dragged him kicking and screaming into the morass. His unwillingness will be to his eternal credit, but his capitulation was a serious sign of weakness. As I said at the time of his election, "he will change exactly what he is allowed to change"...I was vilified at the time, but events proved me correct. |
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Subject: RE: Why action to end Systemic Racism can't wait From: Dave the Gnome Date: 03 Aug 15 - 07:56 AM the vast majority of people found guilty of violent crime in America are black If the law enforcement agencies target a particular group then that group will be over represented in crime statistics. I suspect the poster of that comment is too stupid to realise that it is the systemic racism mentioned in the opening post that skews the figures in this way. |
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Subject: RE: Why action to end Systemic Racism can't wait From: Greg F. Date: 03 Aug 15 - 09:18 AM August 3, 2015 POCOMOKE CITY, Md. — Kelvin Sewell figured he had landed his dream job in 2010, when he retired as a Baltimore police officer to help run the tiny 16-member force in this little riverfront city, which calls itself "the friendliest town on the Eastern Shore." A year later he became its first African-American police chief. Blacks and whites have coexisted, sometimes uneasily, in Pocomoke for centuries, but Chief Sewell, with his easygoing manner, quickly fit in. He prodded officers to patrol on foot, pleasing business owners. He helped poor students fill out college applications. Crime, everyone agrees, went down on his watch. But the chief's abrupt dismissal in June, without explanation, by a white mayor and majority white City Council that voted along racial lines, has torn Pocomoke asunder, wrecking old friendships and exposing a deep racial rift in this community of roughly 4,100 people, split almost evenly between black and white. Resistance to slavery was strong in Maryland, but the lower Eastern Shore, just across the border from Virginia, was home to Confederate sympathizers during the Civil War. The early 20th century brought lynch mobs. The region was slow to desegregate its schools and even slower to elect blacks to government, said Deborah Jeon, legal director for the A.C.L.U. of Maryland, which in the 1990s brought a voting rights case that forced changes in the way Pocomoke's surrounding county, Worcester, held elections. "It's not like the rest of Maryland; it's more like the Deep South," Ms. Jeon said. "They fought us tooth and nail to prevent changes in the election system, even though the county had an all-white government for 250 years." Whole Article Here |
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Subject: any mod help request From: wysiwyg Date: 03 Aug 15 - 09:59 AM I am gratified by the civility of discourse thus far! But as OP, I would request that since discussion has veered so far away from the original tragedy it would be best to close this one. (Someone could start another.) A primer on the different forms of racism-- "systemic" having for instance a particular meaning in Anti-Racism work-- seems to be needed for several who have been opining in recent weeks. I'll look forward to starting THAT discussion when the return from NoWiFiLand permits. ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: Why action to end Systemic Racism can't wait From: GUEST, ^*^ Date: 03 Aug 15 - 11:34 AM This may bring it back around a bit for you, ~Susan. I don't do this for just anyone, but I heard a radio interview with a local author last week, whose next project is a book for young adults about Hillary Clinton. The Clintons have been "out there" working on these things. I transcribed a few minutes of the interview, to give a view of Hillary's background for insight into the issues that will be important to her: KarenB: There's a fascinating person in our history right, the leading Democratic contender right now, a woman who has done an unbelievable number of things. Many of them quite fascinating, from being the first commencement speaker at Wellesley and getting her picture in Life Magazine for the sharp words she used to Senator Ed Brook, to serving as Secretary of State, and a lot of things in between. So it's turned out to be a very big and complex project, cause she's a pretty complex person. You're stumbling on parts of a complex person, Ake, but when it comes down to it, the Clintons are still in the right place at the right time. |
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Subject: RE: Why action to end Systemic Racism can't wait From: Joe Offer Date: 07 Aug 15 - 12:28 AM There's no question in my mind that racism in police departments is a very important issue, but it is only one of many causes of police misconduct. In Internet discussions, I find that people are often too quick to blame others for problems, and too slow to offer solutions to those problems. Even police officers who have some racist elements in their thinking and background, are not necessarily unredeemably horrible people. Indeed, many of them follow the rules and do what they're supposed to do, even though they may not particularly like people of other races. Once they've had favorable contacts with people of other races, their racism often melts away quickly. I'm on the board of a community organizing group called Placer People of Faith Together, a member of the PICO National Network. Over the last five years, we have worked closely with the Hispanic community in our county. Most of our county is rural or small towns, but we do have one city, Roseville, a suburb of Sacramento with a population of 128,000. Roseville has the full spectrum of urban problems, including a police department with some history of racism. A couple of years ago, Roseville hired its first nonwhite police chief, a black man who had been a shining star in the Sacramento Police Department. The guy is a pro, and he looks like a movie star. On top of that, he's just a really nice person. But the Hispanics have had a tough time in Roseville, and they weren't sure whether they could trust this new police chief, even though he comes from a racial minority. Recently, California passed a law allowing undocumented immigrants to get California drivers' licenses. We and the Roseville Police Department wanted to get licenses for as many people as possible, so we wanted to offer training so people could pass the exam. The logical place to offer training was the police department, but we were afraid that people wouldn't trust the police enough to go to their headquarters for classes. So, we decided to have a series of open houses at the police department, with bilingual tour guides, refreshments, and a party atmosphere. People loved the tours, and then they flocked to the police department for the classes. And police-community relations improved quickly. On top of that, lots of Hispanic immigrants are very proud bearers of California Drivers' Licenses. If we want to improve things, we have to do it with imagination and an open heart. I suppose there's a place for confrontation and litigation - but I think it's essential that we try positive approaches first, and use confrontation and litigation as a last resort. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: Why action to end Systemic Racism can't wait From: Jack Campin Date: 07 Aug 15 - 07:23 AM A domestic Abu Ghraib for Chicago blacks: http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/feb/24/chicago-police-detain-americans-black-site A lot of good training white cops in racial sensitivity will do to get that thing demolished. |
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Subject: RE: Why action to end Systemic Racism can't wait From: Greg F. Date: 07 Aug 15 - 10:20 AM I think it's essential that we try positive approaches first, and use confrontation and litigation as a last resort. Any reason we can't use 'em simultaneously, Joe? |
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Subject: RE: Why action to end Systemic Racism can't wait From: GUEST,Stim Date: 07 Aug 15 - 12:12 PM On this question: I think it's essential that we try positive approaches first, and use confrontation and litigation as a last resort. Any reason we can't use 'em simultaneously, Joe? Once litigation has begun, the opposing parties can't talk about the issues without the attorneys present. |
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Subject: RE: Why action to end Systemic Racism can't wait From: Greg F. Date: 07 Aug 15 - 01:46 PM Obviously, Stim. I didn't mean simultaneously on the SAME CASE. |
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