please take off those tuners!

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: GUEST,Guest Billj
Date: 27 Oct 15 - 11:09 PM

Really? That's what's got your knickers in a knot? I have some stable guitars and some that slide out of tune a little easier. When I'm playing with someone else I want to stay in tune so the harmonies are crisp. I've had a guitar go out of tune in the middle of a song, temperature, humidity, tuners aren't tight, string wasn't installed quite right or wasn't stretched, who knows why. It's easier and less painful for the audience to just turn that tuner on and tweak the offending string. Worry about something more earth shattering, like why some people play Elk River Blues in 4/4 all the way through.

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 27 Oct 15 - 06:04 PM

I'm pleased to report that all guitar playing floor spot performers had tuners fixed to their guitars last night at Croydon Folk Club - before a superb performance by Coope, Boyes & Simpson of their In Flanders Fields show!

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: GUEST,Mike Rogers
Date: 27 Oct 15 - 01:05 PM

When I was a sprog, many years ago, I spent hours and hours tuning. In my first band, with cheap guitars, inferior machine heads and a bunch of egos, most than half the time allotted for learning new material would be spent on tuning, at which point the drummer would decide he had a problem. All tuners are good, headstock ones even more so.
Especially as I could never afford to pay a Maple Byrne.

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: GUEST,R oger Knowles
Date: 26 Oct 15 - 07:38 PM

Seamus Kennedy says it for me.

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: Andy7
Date: 25 Oct 15 - 08:26 PM

"On the other hand, Andy7 as the OP started with a premise, listened to other posters, changed his views and gracefully so. Nice little thread in many ways"
Thank you, Maeve! I only just came across your post.

Btw, I'm not trying to restart this topic, I think we more or less covered it from every angle.

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: Mr Red
Date: 09 Oct 15 - 05:12 AM

Apologies if this tuner has been posted but
1) You can't see it
2) It can't be removed
3) It was in tune when he bought it!

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: GUEST,#
Date: 03 Oct 15 - 10:08 AM

Two excellent suggestions. If she plays piano accordian and cymbals simultaneously it will obviate the tuner problem. Eureka.

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: GUEST,DTM
Date: 03 Oct 15 - 04:55 AM

Or cymbals!

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 02 Oct 15 - 08:34 AM

Try her with a piano accordion?

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: GUEST,#
Date: 30 Sep 15 - 08:31 AM

My deepest sympathies, pfr.

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 30 Sep 15 - 06:38 AM

That photo - I think I'm reaching an age now where I noticed the guitar first.... 😬


.. and neither the guitar, or the woman with grotesque fake enhancements look all that truly desirable...

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 30 Sep 15 - 06:21 AM

That young lady could tune to her G string, if she were wearing one.

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: GUEST,Mark Bluemel
Date: 30 Sep 15 - 04:49 AM

Regarding the young lady, I would refer to Rule 34 and possibly wetriffs.com

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: Brakn
Date: 30 Sep 15 - 02:55 AM

Threads about tuners? Nah.

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: Joe Offer
Date: 30 Sep 15 - 02:51 AM

Guitarists, whatever you decide to do with tuners, please DON'T refrain from tuning. It hurts to try to sing with an out-of-tune guitar.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Sep 15 - 01:31 AM

Mudcat is predominantly negative. I wore my tuner last night.

Get a life!

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: GUEST,#
Date: 29 Sep 15 - 07:49 PM

I thought that's what she was holding in her right hand. Honest.

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: PHJim
Date: 29 Sep 15 - 07:36 PM

Hey GUEST,#, I didn't notice a tuner on the head of her guitar.

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: GUEST,#
Date: 29 Sep 15 - 06:20 PM

Too true. Also, playing slide guitar will be a real sonuvagun.

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: The Sandman
Date: 29 Sep 15 - 06:15 PM

she needs to make sure that the guitar strings do not cause a leakage of silicon from busts

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: GUEST,#
Date: 29 Sep 15 - 01:29 PM

Seems that scantily-clad young lady is facing the same conundrum.

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 29 Sep 15 - 12:50 PM

I like your point about the t-shirts, Jack. I think musicians should try to eliminate visual distractions. People have a hard enough time listening rather than looking.

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: Jack Campin
Date: 28 Sep 15 - 02:07 PM

I have seen numerous Martins with a foil headstock decal that has been worn away by the tuner.

I thoroughly approve of obliterating brand names.

Can somebody persuade people wearing t-shirts with huge logos that they need to keep them in tune?

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: GUEST,MikeL2
Date: 28 Sep 15 - 01:30 PM

Hi

Being one of the "older Brigade" most of my performances were before electronic tuners came out.

I have used them and found them to be very useful as my hearing deteriorated.

I keep mine firmly fixed to my guitar and am not bothered about doing so. During a performance guitar strings can ( and do ) go out of tune.
I find the device aids my speed in re-tuning quickly and it helps me not to have to do the embarrassing and boring ( for the audience ) tuning and re-tuning.

Many of today's performers use them to a greater or smaller effect.

As other people here have pointed out we come to watch and listen to the music. For me, I don't really notice the tuners. Certainly they do not detrimentally impact on my enjoyment.

Cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Sep 15 - 12:32 PM

Yes, Alan, it works fine on the end of the headstock of my Lowden, which has a greater distance between the D/G tuners and the tip of the headstock.

It doesn't work for me in the position you suggest because, when I'm playing out, I use two guitars and the Hercules stands with the opening and closing jaws. The tuner in that position fouls the jaws, and the guitar won't hang.

It's a shame really, the Micro is a neat, accurate little tuner, if only I could work out a position to place it that works for me!

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: GUEST,Lanfranc the cookieless
Date: 28 Sep 15 - 12:12 PM

It works fine on my '68 D-18, my Brook Tavy and my Tanglewood parlour. My Alvarez guitars all have built in tuners.

The trick I find is to locate the PW micro between the 1st string tuner and the nut with the display underneath the headstock and angled toward you. No interference with the decal and even my podgy hands don't get in the way when tuning. The display is small, but as long as I wear my glasses ...

Comment invited.

Alan

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Sep 15 - 09:38 AM

Hmmmm - doesn't work very well that way on any of my Martins, because:-

a) The machines obstruct the placing of the PW Micro, i.e.there is insufficient room to place the PW Micro and rotate it so that you can read the (very small) display, because of the proximity of the D and G machines to the end of the headstock and the restricted space between them. In other words, the Micro doesn't fit very well in the restricted space at the back of the headstock.

b) When tuning the guitar, your hand blocks the view of the PW Micro.

And anyway, even if you place the tuner at the back of the headstock, the 'rear' arm of the clip still covers part of the headstock decal.

I have a D-18, an HD-28V and an OM-28 Marquis, and the above is true on all three.

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: GUEST,Lanfranc sans cookie
Date: 28 Sep 15 - 09:22 AM

One thing that frustrates me as a self confessed guitar nerd about permanently clipped on tuners is that they obscure the maker's name on the headstock. I have seen numerous Martins with a foil headstock decal that has been worn away by the tuner. May I commend the Planet Waves micro tuner which can be attached so as to be read from behind the headstock? Much more discreet.

Alan

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 26 Sep 15 - 07:19 AM

I hope there is not a "stop mics fixed to glasses for recording gigs" organisation - it's very important to have mics as far away from the feet of potential foottappers as possible!!!

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 26 Sep 15 - 05:03 AM

Stamping feet! ONE HUNDRED!

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 26 Sep 15 - 05:02 AM

Won't.

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 26 Sep 15 - 05:01 AM

Can't.

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 26 Sep 15 - 05:00 AM

No.

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: GUEST,#
Date: 25 Sep 15 - 12:53 PM

I'm starting a non-profit "Free the Tuner Organization" in Canada. If anyone wants to represent the FTO in a specific country please respond here because we don't intend to have a website until 2093. We have taken our modus operandi from a mixture of various things so well known there's no use naming them. No membership fees, no oaths to take, no meetings, no minutes of meetings, no committees to join, no deadlines. If this sounds like your kind of group, then we have accomplished our goal and the organization can now fold.

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 25 Sep 15 - 11:29 AM

I bought a fancy Korg poly tuner in the black friday sales,
Excellent discounted bargain -
but have never used it because I can't remember where I put the box just as soon as it was delivered.

It's a big chunky metal tuner that's supposed to show simultaneously how far out of tune all six strings are..

Apparently the same technology has now been shrunk down into headstock tuners...???

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: GUEST,who likes to be in tune
Date: 25 Sep 15 - 11:23 AM

ripov,
last Guest - why do you tune between songs? Surely its easier to hear that you're in tune or not while you're playing? (except when using high levels of amplification) And if the next person you play with is out of tune with you, and you both use tuners, then the tuners are at fault. So the question is - how do you ensure your tuner is in tune with everybody elses?

I don't think I entirely understand your question, but I'll give it a go.

1. I don't tune between every song. But I probably should. The guitar goes very slightly out of tune in the course of playing a song.

2. I use a capo a lot. When going from open strings to having a capo on the 5th or 7th fret, the bass strings go slightly sharp. A quick touch-up of a string or two takes almost no time if I don't have to fumble around picking up my tuner. Most performance situations I'm in are noisy enough that trying to tune by ear is ill-advised.

3. I occasionally tweak a string that's way out in the middle of a tune, but since I'm the sole accompaniment the music dies if I stop playing. I can do a spontaneous arrangement change and make a space for me to tune in if I need to, but since I tune my guitar and cittern pretty regularly between songs, they are rarely all that far out of tune.

4. Everyone I play with except fiddle players use tuners. We're always in tune with each other -- there's never a problem with tuners being out of tune with each other. Fiddlers usually get an A from another instrument and then tune the instrument to itself. Most are pretty good at doing that very quickly.

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: Young Buchan
Date: 25 Sep 15 - 11:21 AM

The correct sequence is this:

Tune the guitar(optional)
Remove the tuner
Replace guitar carefully in case
Perform song whilst holding tuner firmly in hand.

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Sep 15 - 05:55 AM

Hamish, spot on.

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: Hamish
Date: 25 Sep 15 - 05:20 AM

I might use three or four different tunings in a set. I don't have several decent guitars nor a guitar-tech so often have to retune during a set on multiple occasions. Of course I'm going to keep it attached during the set. But I do switch it off.

Before the days of electronic tuners, I'd construct a set to start in standard tuning and get progressively towards an open chord (cos it's easier to do by ear in that order) e.g. standard > drop D > double drop D > DADGAD > open D. Then in the interval retune to standard and perhaps end in open G.

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: PHJim
Date: 24 Sep 15 - 07:42 PM

Maybe a true story, maybe an urban legend:

When Herb Ellis was playing with Glen Gray's Casa Loma Orchestra, he was once criticized by Gray for constantly touching up his tuning.

Gray said, "I saw Andre Segovia play a whole evening and he didn't have to retune once."

Herb replied, "Well, some cats just don't care."

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 24 Sep 15 - 05:05 PM

depends...

When our band was playing regularly, I gigged with electric mandos & 6 + 12 string solid body electric guitars

I used a tuner with a mute foot switch for silent tuning.

If I suddenly went that badly out of tune
eg, another band member accidentally colliding with my guitar's machine heads.
Then just hit the mute switch during a part of a verse or chorus
when no one will notice if you drop out from playing
for a fraction of a minute..

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: GUEST,ripov
Date: 24 Sep 15 - 04:35 PM

Good Soldier Schweik ; ok, good point re scordatura.

punkfolkrocker ; I was thinking of playing in a group. Yes if you were solo you would hear immediately if you were out of tune, amplified or not. But would you wait till the end before retuning, unless it was impossible to find time to tweak the peg?

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: GUEST,ripov
Date: 24 Sep 15 - 04:23 PM

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 24 Sep 15 - 04:22 PM

$14.99

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: GUEST, DTM
Date: 24 Sep 15 - 02:00 PM

Two points-
1) Leaving the tuner on when not in use surely reduces battery life expectancy.
2) Leaving tuners clipped to the stock eventually will weaken the spring (thereby the grip) so that the resonance will be harder to pick up by the tuner.

Bottom line:
It's your tuner. Do what you want with it. I don't care.

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 24 Sep 15 - 01:14 PM

"Surely its easier to hear that you're in tune or not while you're playing? (except when using high levels of amplification) ".. eh...???

If your guitar goes out of tune playing through a good sized decent powered amp... you and everyone else in the venue will immediately know about it...

There's nowhere to hide !!!

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: The Sandman
Date: 24 Sep 15 - 01:12 PM

ripov, why do you tune between songs, you may be changing from standard to some other

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: GUEST,ripov
Date: 24 Sep 15 - 12:59 PM

last Guest - why do you tune between songs? Surely its easier to hear that you're in tune or not while you're playing? (except when using high levels of amplification) And if the next person you play with is out of tune with you, and you both use tuners, then the tuners are at fault. So the question is - how do you ensure your tuner is in tune with everybody elses?

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 24 Sep 15 - 10:48 AM

Makes sense.

Subject: RE: please take off those tuners!
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 10:38 PM

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the real reason for tuners on headstocks: it dramatically decreases the amount of time it takes to tune the instrument between songs. When I'm on stage I'm always very conscious of the ratio of music time to not-music time. Also, almost anything that makes the mechanics of being on stage easier is worth it. It frees one to concentrate on the important things, like the music and the audience.