Pete St. John Song List & Lyrics

Subject: RE: Pete St. John Song List & Lyrics
From: GUEST,Guest Anon
Date: 15 Mar 22 - 03:21 AM

on the subject of songs about towns or areas it also falls short in comparison to Ring f Iron by graeme miles
It's all around the town
All around the town
It's all around the town
This hard ring of iron
There's smoke up in the sky
Smoke up in the sky
There's smoke that's black and chimney stacks
As far as the eye can see
There's shipyards to the north
Chemicals to the south
Factories, stills and rolling mills
Right down to the river's mouth
But there's fields and pastures green
Fields and pastures green
There's fields and pastures green
Outside this ring of iron
So it's out of town I'm bound
Out of town I'm bound
It's out of town I'm bound
And I'll break this ring of iron

Subject: RE: Pete St. John Song List & Lyrics
From: meself
Date: 15 Mar 22 - 02:41 PM

Did you notice that the speaker in Rare Ould Times is an embittered old drunk?

Subject: RE: Pete St. John Song List & Lyrics
From: GUEST,Guest Anon
Date: 15 Mar 22 - 07:02 PM

The Message of the song is reactionary, and that awful verse

And I courted Peggy Dignan, as pretty as you please,
A rogue and child of Mary, from the rebel liberties,
I lost her to a student chap, with skin as black as coal,
When he took her off to Birmingham, she took away my soul.

I suppose it would have been alright would it if the student chap was a fine upstanding Offaly man, like Biffo big ignorant faeller from offaly its sentimental clap trap with racist undertones and kind of student dislike

Subject: RE: Pete St. John Song List & Lyrics
From: GUEST,Guest Anon
Date: 15 Mar 22 - 07:06 PM

an embitterd old drunk? ,that is your interpretation,
an embittered old racist bigot who dislikes students a sort of dublin ALF GARNETT

Subject: RE: Pete St. John Song List & Lyrics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Mar 22 - 08:44 PM

The same conversation about that verse seems to be being held in two different threads. Not ideal. I don't like those words much but we should remember that the fellow is no longer here to explain himself. We can sing it, not sing it, alter the words, listen to it or go for a wee when it's being sung. How about that.

Subject: RE: Pete St. John Song List & Lyrics
From: Joe Offer
Date: 15 Mar 22 - 11:12 PM

Yeah, I'm peeved at Felipa for starting an obituary thread, and then refreshing another thread on Pete St. John songs. It has been a longstanding practice to have only one active thread on a subject at a time. She should know better. She's been told before.
Not knowing what else to do, I've moved all the song messages to this thread. But it would have been better to let the obituary thread live, and to have it open for comments on the life of Pete St. John and discuss the songs later.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Pete St. John Song List & Lyrics
From: GUEST,Guest Anon
Date: 16 Mar 22 - 12:10 AM

An analysis of why RARE OULD TIMES is not as well written as Fields of Athenry or Town I loved so well.
This is a music forum and songs should be able to be discussed, it is not my fault if Felipa starts threads , Joe if you dont like it close the thread until you feel it is suitable and a polite time after his death, after all I am only discussing and comparing two of his songs not discussing him personally.

Subject: RE: Pete St. John Song List & Lyrics
From: meself
Date: 16 Mar 22 - 12:16 PM

"an embitterd old drunk? ,that is your interpretation" - Of course it's my interpretation, although I would have thought it's a fairly obvious interpretation; I don't pride myself on it being particularly insightful or original. Anyway - you don't seem terribly interested in discussion; rather, you're here to lecture us on the demerits of this popular song, apparently. Fair enough. I'm out.

Subject: RE: Pete St. John Song List & Lyrics
From: GUEST,Guest Anon
Date: 16 Mar 22 - 01:53 PM

Iam happy to discuss the song in an informed way with anyone who has sensible interpretations, there is no evidence in the song that the speaker is a drunk

Subject: RE: Pete St. John Song List & Lyrics
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 16 Mar 22 - 02:23 PM

But he tells us the gargle has dimmed his brain.

Subject: RE: Pete St. John Song List & Lyrics
From: GUEST,Guest Anon
Date: 16 Mar 22 - 04:49 PM

Dublin in the rare ould times has a very catchy singeable melody.

But he tells us the gargle has dimmed his brain."
that does not mean he is a drunk, alcohol even in moderation dims everyones brain, that is why there are drink driving laws, even a pint affects or dims your brain.
no i dont buy that, just because he saysits dimmed his brain does not make him a drunk or alcoholic
and even if he was an embittered old drunk, which is debatable, there is no need for the racist stuff, would it be ok if she had gone off with a dub or a tipperary man

Subject: RE: Pete St. John Song List & Lyrics
From: GUEST,Don Meixner
Date: 16 Mar 22 - 05:00 PM

I am fine with Guest Anon not being a fan of Rare Ould Times. I have long had issues with skin as black as coal and have used a few work arounds to get away from it. ( lost her to a student chap one summer after school) Also lame but not blatant. And I have to say I never got the Embittered Drunk idea. I always felt this guy would occasionally get into his cups and remember the past where he grew up. The song has a few warts but otherwise there is a reality to the narrators tale that I can believe.

There are a great many songs of which I am not a fan. And my band does several. To this day I can't see the fascination of Galway Girl. That Steve Earle could write so lame a song as Galway Girl and so near perfect a song as Nothing But A Child baffles me. We do The Old Man which I find too full of sap but not any of the many brilliant Phil Coulter songs.

Pete St. John left a trail of songs. Some are bound to be not his best. Some won't stand the test of time but a few are jewels and they will last.

Don

Subject: RE: Pete St. John Song List & Lyrics
From: GUEST,Guest Anon
Date: 17 Mar 22 - 04:26 AM

Fair comment.

Subject: RE: Pete St. John Song List & Lyrics
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Apr 24 - 01:48 PM

Skin as black as coal is as racist as saying skin as white as snow.

Its not being derogatory to say skin is black when some peoples skin is black.

Even if it was racist its a character and songs are meant to represent true characters not perfected angels.

Subject: RE: Pete St. John Song List & Lyrics
From: GUEST,Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Apr 24 - 05:17 PM

As Mudcat's numero uno Liverpool fan, I can't help but post the lyrics of the version of Fields of Athenry as sung by the Kopites (aka the Liverpool FC fanatics who stand behind one of the goals, the end known as the Kop). Here goes. Same tune:

"Fields Of Anfield Road"

Outside the Shankly Gates
I heard a Kopite calling:
Shankly they have taken you away
But you left a great eleven
Before you went to heaven
Now it's glory round the Fields of Anfield Road

All round the Fields of Anfield Road
Where once we watched the King Kenny play (and he could play)
We had Heighway on the wing
We had dreams and songs to sing
Of the glory round the Fields of Anfield Road

Outside the Paisley Gates
I heard a Kopite calling
Paisley they have taken you away...
You led the great 11
Back in Rome in 77
And the redmen they are still playing the same way

All round the Fields of Anfield Road
Where once we watched the King Kenny play (and he could play)
Steve Heighway on the wing
We had dreams and songs to sing
Of the glory round the Fields of Anfield Road

Beside the Hillsborough Flame
I heard a Kopite mourning
Why so many taken on that day?
Justice has never been done
But their memory will carry on
There'll be glory around the Fields of Anfield Road