Lyr Req: 'Bumper' definition needed

Subject: Lyr Req: 'Bumper' definition needed
From: GUEST,JennaFreeman
Date: 22 Oct 15 - 08:09 AM

Hi

Does anybody know what is meant by 'bumper' in the following context:

'When a bumper is filled it is vexing no doubt, to find when you rise that the wine has run out.'

I have come across it a couple of times related to alcoholic activities but cannot find a definition for it in this context.

Thanks
Jenna

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Bumper' definition needed
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 22 Oct 15 - 08:19 AM

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/bumper

is the URL of the Wikidictionary entry.

≈M≈

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Bumper' definition needed
From: Jack Campin
Date: 22 Oct 15 - 08:23 AM

Looks like nobody knows the whole story.

http://blog.oup.com/2012/12/drinking-vessel-bumper-etymology-word-origin/

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Bumper' definition needed
From: leeneia
Date: 22 Oct 15 - 05:10 PM

I've been thinking about it,and it seems we have a tendency to use the -er sound for tableware:

platter
pitcher
trencher
ewer
salt cellar

So why not 'bumper'?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Bumper' definition needed
From: Gurney
Date: 22 Oct 15 - 07:03 PM

Wiki says 'a small glass of sherry or port when filled to the brim.' So presumably it denotes a generous measure.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Bumper' definition needed
From: Gallus Moll
Date: 22 Oct 15 - 07:05 PM

Chambers Scots Dictionary:
to fill to the brim; to drink healths in a bumper

Chambers 20th Century Dictionary:
a cup or glass filled to the brim for drinking a toast; anything large or generous in measure

I seem to recall a (whaling? fishing?) song with a verse about the ship (or hold?) being bumper full -- - - -

also I've come across it in more than one song with the 'drinking' meaning -- canny remember exactly what anes jist the noo - --

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Bumper' definition needed
From: Gallus Moll
Date: 22 Oct 15 - 07:17 PM

just checked online (quicker that trying to find my 101 or Scottish Folk books) Fareweel Tae Tarwathie for the 'bumper full' verse - - it's there!

However I was amazed to discover a site that offered Judy Collins, singing her 'own composition' of said song- - and no opportunity for me to make corrections. either to the incorrect words (she had 'under full' whatever that is supposed to mean - oh sorry, guess it's the folk process......)or to gently point out that it is a much older song from the NE of Scotland!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Bumper' definition needed
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 22 Oct 15 - 07:17 PM

From 'Spanish Ladies':

Now let every man drink up his full bumper
Now let every man drink up his full glass

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Bumper' definition needed
From: GUEST,Ebor Fiddler
Date: 22 Oct 15 - 07:40 PM

The term "Bumper" as I understand it comes from drinking healths and bumping the flagons, glasses etc in a party situation. The glasses always started off very full. Later it became a verb, "drinking Bumpers". "Bumper full" of course was to be as full as possible, like the party glasses.
But where did the name "Bumper Castle" come from? I can understand it as a pub name, but I know at least one farm with that name.

Chris B.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Bumper' definition needed
From: BrooklynJay
Date: 22 Oct 15 - 10:52 PM

I have long had issues with the Judy Collins website, and the incorrect posted lyrics to her adaptation of Farewell to Tarwathie.

If you listen to the recording she made many years ago (from the album Whales and Nightingales), she clearly says, "bumper full."

I don't know who runs her website (I doubt it's Ms. Collins herself), but they should listen a little more carefully to some of the song lyrics.


Jay

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Bumper' definition needed
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 23 Oct 15 - 12:10 AM

Couple of examples off top of my ☺

♫ So let us fill a bumper
And drink success to trade
And likewise to that cabin boy
Who was neither man nor maid ♫♫

   "The Handsome Cabin Boy"


♫ With a ship that's bumper-full, my lads,
And money to our name ♫


   "The Bonny Ship the 'Diamond'"

≈M≈

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Bumper' definition needed
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 23 Oct 15 - 01:22 AM

And of course it's the same usage as we recall from our childhood Xmas-gift books like "The Beano Bumper Xmas Comic" or "The Boys' Bumper Book Of Sports and Hobbies/Girls' Bumper Book Of Fashion" &c &c &c...

NB these all ones I dredge up from my actual memory; so don't blame me, blame the publishers, for implied sexism in these last examples.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Bumper' definition needed
From: Kampervan
Date: 23 Oct 15 - 04:20 AM

The above is interesting and, no doubt, correct.

Although, for no apparent reason, in the context of the annual Christmas editions of those books, I always associated Bumper with meaning big.

Whereas in the context of the drinking examples it could be applied to any size container, it just had to be full. Perhaps my childish assumptions were wrong.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Bumper' definition needed
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 23 Oct 15 - 05:33 AM

I think both meanings, big & full, can be subsumed according to context. Certainly with the comic books, bigness would be an implication; and I can't feel that usage would let bumper apply to a demitasse as well as a pint-pot! It might originally have meant any container that was full right up, but development of usage has surely brought about an assumption of a fair old size!

≈M≈

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Bumper' definition needed
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 23 Oct 15 - 05:36 AM

... Chambers sez "...a cup or glass filled to the brim for drinking a toast; anything large or generous in measure..."

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Bumper' definition needed
From: RTim
Date: 23 Oct 15 - 06:20 AM

Bold Reynard collected from Albert Doe - New Forest Gypsy 1909 in the Gardiner collection - Last verse.

It's now Bold Reynard he's dead
They'll turn to the Dolphin and dine
They'll dip his fur paw in the bumper
And drink my lord's health in good wine.


Tim Radford

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Bumper' definition needed
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Oct 15 - 06:50 PM

I'd go for Ebor Fiddler's suggestion it's to do with clinking glasses or flagons together making toasts and drinking each other's health.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Bumper' definition needed
From: GUEST,JennaFreeman
Date: 31 Oct 15 - 08:45 AM

Thank you so much for all this - this was the first question I'd asked on here and you've all been so helpful!