BS: Art Suffers

Subject: BS: Art Suffers
From: GUEST,Cory
Date: 13 Feb 16 - 08:17 PM

Old and in the way. Paul Simon and Elton John. Add Billy Joel.

Sort of in decay creatively but still putting out material and touring. Soft and squishy, dulled edges playing hits from the past, while shifting into humanitarian and mentor roles; award recipients - legend, memory, lifetime achievement recognition. I can't picture these guys cycling back into the fold as Bob Dylan or Marty Stuart and others have. Ever, really.

Not knocking the humanitarian/charity stuff.

But artistically?

Some go this way....and others just keep going and going.

Wonder why.

Subject: RE: BS: Art Suffers
From: Stanron
Date: 13 Feb 16 - 08:26 PM

Ladies and gentlemen, I've suffered for my art and now it's your turn. I'd like to sing....

Subject: RE: BS: Art Suffers
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 13 Feb 16 - 08:38 PM

In the way of what ? I don,t quite get what you are on about. Do you mean they have nothing left to say or that what an old guy says is of no interest. and oh, who is Marty Stuart, just asking ?

Subject: RE: BS: Art Suffers
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Feb 16 - 09:44 PM

HiLo,

I think they don't have anything to say that's artistically relevant, musically, anymore. The bulb's dimmed. I think they are more about fans and causes nowadays: singing old songs that crowds know and love and making a difference with their charity work, putting their fame and fortune to good causes. Nothing wrong with any of this. But I think as a result their artistry has suffered.

Why are Bob Dylan, and (leaving Marty) Jack White exceptions?

They'd never abandon or let their art get soft or slide. Too important.

Subject: RE: BS: Art Suffers
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 13 Feb 16 - 10:07 PM

Sorry about the two above... Big fingers, tiny iPod. I don,t mean to be difficult but what do you mean by "artistically relevant" . I always have a hard time with that word, relevant.. Relevant to what . explain artistically relevant to me.
and I do hate to ask again, but who isJack White ?

Subject: RE: BS: Art Suffers
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Feb 16 - 11:11 PM

There are all sorts of good reasons why none of these older performers need to go away, just because you find them too old for your tastes. Move along and go to the concerts you prefer. What a silly complaint.

Subject: RE: BS: Art Suffers
From: GUEST,Cory
Date: 13 Feb 16 - 11:29 PM

Jack White is the former lead guitarist/singer for the band The White Stripes. Read more about him with a quick search on Google or Wikipedia.

I think the closest word that would fit would be 'meaningful'. So, by artistically relevant I mean Elton, Paul, Billy are no longer contributing artistically in a meaningful way.

The trouble is I think they reached a resting point in their older age, revisiting songs night after night for audience appeal. Resting points, revisiting, and repeating are against the creative journey in the long run. Creative people are constantly on the move with ideas which they constantly act upon. Someone else here could probably explain it much clearer and with fewer words. I hope it makes some sense.

Subject: RE: BS: Art Suffers
From: GUEST,Cory
Date: 13 Feb 16 - 11:41 PM

Acme,

They don't need to go away. I didn't say that. Sorry, however, if it seemed implied.

The old performer is just that: a performer. It's easy to miss the distinction between artist and performer/entertainer. For example, I could never see George Strait as an artist. It's just not happening, for me. But I can see him as a performer. And it's has nothing to do with tastes and what is 'good' or 'bad' either. Billy Joel, Elton, etc. write and perform great music.

I am just trying to get at something else entirely.

Subject: RE: BS: Art Suffers
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Feb 16 - 11:43 PM

Let me revise a tad to stay true to the point, **wrote** and perform great music!

Subject: RE: BS: Art Suffers
From: Kampervan
Date: 14 Feb 16 - 12:40 AM

''So, by artistically relevant I mean Elton, Paul, Billy are no longer contributing artistically in a meaningful way. ''

It depends what you want from your music doesn't it. Most of the time all I want is to be entertained by something that I enjoy listening to.

As long as an artist is doing that for me then I'll carry on listening, buying their music, going to their concerts.

As long as people are doing that why wouldn't they keep performing?

Whenever someone new comes along, if I like them, I'll listen and buy.
If I get fed up with someone then I'll stop.

I don't care whether they're 'relevant' or not. And they're certainly not stopping new talent coming through.

Subject: RE: BS: Art Suffers
From: Megan L
Date: 14 Feb 16 - 02:38 AM

Never heard of the white stripes till you mentioned them so went and hunted them down I wont be doing that again.

I am not keen on Elton John but he greatly appeals to a lot of people. Each to their own I suppose

Subject: RE: BS: Art Suffers
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 14 Feb 16 - 02:46 AM

Perhaps they should apologise for not dying at their peak?

If I'd written and performed Elton John's life, I'd have nothing to prove and nothing to feel I need to contribute further. In fact, I read recently that he said he isn't in the race to come out with new stuff to be judged.

Meanwhile, saw Martin Carthy again recently. Most of his set was a couple of hundred years old and I reckon we'd be disappointed if it wasn't.

Subject: RE: BS: Art Suffers
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Feb 16 - 03:24 AM

"Perhaps they should apologise for not dying at their peak?

If I'd written and performed Elton John's life, I'd have nothing to prove and nothing to feel I need to contribute further. In fact, I read recently that he said he isn't in the race to come out with new stuff to be judged.

Meanwhile, saw Martin Carthy again recently. Most of his set was a couple of hundred years old and I reckon we'd be disappointed if it wasn't."

A thousand Amens.

Subject: RE: BS: Art Suffers
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 14 Feb 16 - 04:20 AM

Artists don't get more meaningful than Leonard Cohen ! Last time I saw him in concert he was 78.
If Elton John or Paul Simon turned up in my neck of the woods ,I would be first in line for tickets just hear them sing those iconic songs each of them has written.
For me music does not just exist in the present. There is great joy in being able to go back and enjoy great artists and yes, some not so great ones as well, The Spice Girls were a load of fun.

Subject: RE: BS: Art Suffers
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Feb 16 - 04:42 AM

Amen again (except for the bit about The Spice Girls!). 👍

Subject: RE: BS: Art Suffers
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 14 Feb 16 - 09:11 AM

I'm in tune with lilo on this.

I fancied one of the spice girls I'll have you know...

(Baby spice, the blonde lass with the shapely bum. There again, blonde with nice bum? I fancied Agnyeta Faltskog from Abba for that matter. Must be a theme going here.)

Amen & Druse



Oh, I haven't got anywhere to stick my head in order to listen to Leonard Cohen since we got rid of the gas oven....

Subject: RE: BS: Art Suffers
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Feb 16 - 08:31 PM

I'm like that with anything by Mahler. Music to slit your own throat by.

Subject: RE: BS: Art Suffers
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 15 Feb 16 - 10:20 AM

I'm always a bit bothered about the use of the term 'relevant' in relation to cultural artefacts, literature, performers' shticks, and such... -- I am sure you will see what I mean.

Starting with Chambers' definition of 'relevant', which it seems to me could not be bettered -

"bearing on the matter in hand"

- I always want to enquire as to precisely what is the 'matter in hand' to which the artefact &c should bear; and what precisely is to be regarded as the nature of that 'bearing'?

In other words, taking the first word of thread title as epitome of our referent, what is this "Art" supposed to be 'relevant' to? And in what precise way?

Has anyone a relevant reply to this query, please?

≈M≈

Subject: RE: BS: Art Suffers
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 15 Feb 16 - 10:42 AM

I posed that question earlier in the thread. So far have not had a satisfactory reply. I truly mistrust the word "relevant" as most do not not quite know what it means.

Subject: RE: BS: Art Suffers
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Feb 16 - 04:22 PM

50 years ago I remember the exquisite care and concern I took to get at the nuance and detail of the music.

Today I can not reproduce that part of the music.

WHEN THE YANG GROWS WEAK
the yin grows strong.

You could consider listening with new ears for the experience inside the wrinkle of time you can not see now.

Subject: RE: BS: Art Suffers
From: olddude
Date: 15 Feb 16 - 05:04 PM

I am not sure if I suffered for my art but people listening did

Subject: RE: BS: Art Suffers
From: keberoxu
Date: 15 Feb 16 - 05:46 PM

in the original post:

soft and squishy?

Beats me. I think the celebrities you mentioned are hard as nails, myself. I know that if you put me next to THEM, I'm the one who is soft and squishy, because I don't have the intestinal fortitude for the kind of big business that their careers are based on. Relevance shmelevance...

Subject: RE: BS: Art Suffers
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 16 Feb 16 - 03:16 AM

Gosh, let's all sit cross legged at the feet of the great sage Lilo whilst he patiently explains what the word "relevant" means.

😴