BS: what concessions has Cameron got

Subject: BS: what concessions has Cameron got
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 Mar 16 - 10:13 AM

What concessions has he got over Europe, anyone know.

Subject: RE: BS: what concessions has Cameron got
From: John J
Date: 21 Mar 16 - 12:53 PM

Nothing worth having...although you wouldn't think so, the way he's crowing on about how successful he's been.

Subject: RE: BS: what concessions has Cameron got
From: Stanron
Date: 21 Mar 16 - 01:02 PM

He claims to have gotten UK exemption from 'ever closer union'. If he has I won't be too upset if my 'out' vote fails.

Subject: RE: BS: what concessions has Cameron got
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 Mar 16 - 01:29 PM

are there any details?

Subject: RE: BS: what concessions has Cameron got
From: Stanron
Date: 21 Mar 16 - 01:53 PM

Here's a short BBC report on what he got.

EU Concessions

Non of this is actually written in law yet. It's all a promise and I don't trust the EU, or the remainiacs, to actually keep their promises.

Subject: RE: BS: what concessions has Cameron got
From: akenaton
Date: 21 Mar 16 - 02:00 PM

The biggest problem as far as we are concerned is "Freedom of movement" and he has nothing on that.

Subject: RE: BS: what concessions has Cameron got
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 Mar 16 - 02:14 PM

The biggest problem as far as AKNEATON IS concerned is "Freedom of movement" and he has nothing on that

Subject: RE: BS: what concessions has Cameron got
From: akenaton
Date: 21 Mar 16 - 02:22 PM

Come on Good Soldier, the borders are shutting everywhere, the policy was meant to supply cheap labour at the expense of poorer nations, but it backfired big time.

A couple of years ago anyone who questioned unregulated immigration from the EU was branded a bigot and a racist by so called liberals...today you would find few people to support such a policy.

Subject: RE: BS: what concessions has Cameron got
From: GUEST,Dave
Date: 21 Mar 16 - 04:28 PM

I like having freedom of movement. Off to Germany next month where my son lives and works.

Subject: RE: BS: what concessions has Cameron got
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Mar 16 - 04:40 PM

I'm alright Jack.

Subject: RE: BS: what concessions has Cameron got
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 Mar 16 - 04:54 PM

The Bookmakers are offering the following odds
In favour of remaining in EU 4/11        
In favour of exiting EU 2/1


EU Membership Referendum - UK Politics Betting - Online UK Politics Betting from Paddy Power.

Subject: RE: BS: what concessions has Cameron got
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Mar 16 - 06:27 PM

Well I like freedom of movement. Immigrants make a positive contribution to this country. Overwhelmingly, they work, pay tax and are not a welfare burden. They do not steal British jobs or force wages down. They are not increasing the threat of terrorism. They do not increase the crime rate. All these accusations are made and not a single one can be supported by statistics. We hear all the time that being in the EU leads to "uncontrolled immigration" yet immigration is falling. Finally, year on year, immigration to the UK from outside the EU routinely exceeds immigration to the UK from other EU countries. Rather odd, considering that leaving the EU is supposed to be a means of "controlling our borders." My bet is that it won't make any difference, and when the thing goes full circle in a few years' time we'll be clamouring again for all those Polish plumbers, Romanian electricians and Czech dentists that we welcomed with such open arms ten years ago (many of them have gone home!) And don't get me started about how we simply wouldn't have an NHS and a care industry without the kind of immigration we have at present. Anyway, I have my euros and I'll be welcomed again with open arms when I go on my trips to Spain and Italy this year. They love us much more than we love them. Ludwig knows why.

Subject: RE: BS: what concessions has Cameron got
From: GUEST,Richard Bridge on the Intel Quad Core
Date: 21 Mar 16 - 06:36 PM

Akenhateon is still a racist and bigot, and Steve is right. But the big problem is TTIP. If we both leave the EU and get rid of the con-servatives there is a chance of saving the NHS from a treaty obligation to privatise. Only a chance, but a chance.

Subject: RE: BS: what concessions has Cameron got
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Mar 16 - 08:58 PM

Unless there's an implosion much more dramatic than this week's, I can't see us ditching the Tories until 2025, that's the trouble. All we can do is our best.

Subject: RE: BS: what concessions has Cameron got
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 22 Mar 16 - 03:27 AM

Amazing. It just said that freedom of movement is something to do with providing cheap labour. Considering The EU is about trying to increase prosperity and standards for all within it, however difficult that is to achieve, the concept of cheap labour as a product is a non starter even if the reality has been a period of exactly that as countries play catch up.

Also, immigration is a net provider of GDP, not a cost. Even Farage acknowledges this when addressing people who can count beyond ten without removing their shoes and socks.

Next month I am in The USA to give a paper at a conference. The paperwork involved because I am not just there on holiday is immense, (if I were being paid by The NHS for it, no problems but as the WHO is paying me and compensating my employer, the hoops to jump through are harder than writing the *^%ing thing in the first place. Because of fluctuating exchange rates, the term "being paid" is interesting as I could still be taxed in a way where I lose.

In September, I am presenting something similar in Italy. Just hop on a plane, go, come back. No issue with pay as EU agreements between public sector bodies exist. We have just inherited a share of my husband's father's will in Oldenzaal in The Netherlands, (Kris is Dutch.) No more bureaucracy than if it were here in Scotland.

Subject: RE: BS: what concessions has Cameron got
From: akenaton
Date: 22 Mar 16 - 03:59 AM

The negative aspects to unrestricted immigration are many and far reaching, not only in the UK, but in the countries who are losing valuable workers needed to construct their own infrastructure and public services.
Migration should also be curtailed for professionals who receive a free or subsidised education and decide to immediately move abroad for more money.
The negative aspects for the Britain, are the driving down of real wage rates, the shortage of housing, the lack of training programmes for our own young people, the state of the NHS unable to cope with the huge influx of migrants AND an ageing population, the prospect of Turkey being admitted to the EU and the likelihood of terrorists arriving on these shores unchecked.

Time to start "cutting our cloth" training and housing our young folk, cutting out waste and squeezing the spoiled middle class and the obscenely rich.

Putting the whole concept of "multiculturalism" under the microscope to determine for once and for all why it has never worked in practice and why many sections of society simply refuse to integrate.

Subject: RE: BS: what concessions has Cameron got
From: GUEST,Dave
Date: 22 Mar 16 - 04:14 AM

Although freedom of movement is our freedom, the freedom of others to come here is immensely valuable for them and for us. It results in shared experience and expertise. The EU has been a driver of mobility, improvement and innovation, through Framework programmes and now Horizon2020. Would we want to throw away the opportunities this gives, and retreat behind our little walls?

Subject: RE: BS: what concessions has Cameron got
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 22 Mar 16 - 04:19 AM

"Migration must be curtailed"

Proper little fucking Hitler aren't we?

Subject: RE: BS: what concessions has Cameron got
From: GUEST,Dave
Date: 22 Mar 16 - 04:19 AM

Akenaton:

"Migration should also be curtailed for professionals who receive a free or subsidised education and decide to immediately move abroad for more money."

So what are you going to do then, confiscate their passports? Have patrol boats in the channel turning back boatloads of escaping professionals? Where are we, East Germany all of a sudden?

Subject: RE: BS: what concessions has Cameron got
From: GUEST,Richard Bridge on the Intel Quad Core
Date: 22 Mar 16 - 04:52 AM

A local shop for local people...

Subject: RE: BS: what concessions has Cameron got
From: GUEST,Dave
Date: 22 Mar 16 - 06:29 AM

Nice one Richard, I missed the reference to start with having been out of the country for much of the time when it was on. But it really is that attitude, isn't it?

Subject: RE: BS: what concessions has Cameron got
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Mar 16 - 07:03 AM

"Migration should also be curtailed for professionals who receive a free or subsidised education and decide to immediately move abroad for more money."

Two things. You're suggesting that people who have worked hard and achieved much should be more constrained than anyone else. Well there's an incentive to get on if ever I heard one. Second, if it wasn't for the same thing happening en masse in the reverse direction we would have no NHS.

Subject: RE: BS: what concessions has Cameron got
From: GUEST,Dave
Date: 22 Mar 16 - 07:13 AM

Welcome to the brave new world of private sector only healthcare with unqualified doctors and nurses. Academy hospitals.

Subject: RE: BS: what concessions has Cameron got
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 22 Mar 16 - 08:51 AM

One thing to add to the above. Many junior doctors are from countries outside The EU and are here on training as well as delivering services to The NHS. The opposite applies too. I did a one year fellowship (registrar level) in Australia whereas I am interviewing for foundation II doctors next week over half the interviews are on Skype from India, Nigeria etc. They are here on visas and must return after their training contract. Due to stupidity at The Home Offce, this means the cost of a ticket home iin order to be allowed to submit an application for their next training level and return for the interview.

The popularism of bigotry being what it is, and the desperate attempts by Cameron and May to appease scum, it is getting difficult to get doctors for filling posts at junior level and increasingly difficult to find consultants and associate specialists for permanent posts. This is because short sighted workforce planning twenty years ago means less home grown fresh consultants now.

Luckily, views of the likes of Akenaton can't be realised by any government, even this Tory one that is closest to his own views.

Oh, and planning hasn't got much better since that time.... Also, frankly, the academic levels required are, rightly or wrongly, difficult to achieve and the schooling ethic of children needs to kick in early. Some education systems are better at delivering that than others.

Subject: RE: BS: what concessions has Cameron got
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Mar 16 - 12:40 PM

Wages are driven down by employers paying less. Most of those employers are British. Housing shortages are due to chronic lack of spending on housing by successive governments over decades. Lack of training for young people is largely down to a bogus apprenticeship scheme (3 million since 2011) that allows employers to pay young people a pittance for sweeping the floor and cleaning the toilets and to give them next to no genuine training at all, all just to keep the true unemployment figures hidden (zero-hours contracts and "self-employment" being the other main ploys). The NHS wouldn't exist any more but for the tens of thousands of immigrants of all skill levels that keep it afloat. The ageing population has sod all to do with the EU. If anything, the swarm of old people going off to live in Spain is probably taking strain off our health service. Turkey is nowhere near getting into the EU, and most terrorism on our shores is home-grown. One fine day you might actually put forward an argument that isn't coming from prejudice and ignorance. I'm not holding my breath.

Subject: RE: BS: what concessions has Cameron got
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Mar 16 - 01:56 PM

"why many sections of society simply refuse to integrate."
Muslims in Britain have been shown to integrate quicker than any other group - the problems lie with the "host" (sic) nationals who can't think further South than Lands End and further East than norwich (those country yokels really aren't to be trusted!!)
Integrated Muslims
Integration works fine where the bigotted Little Britons allow it to
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: what concessions has Cameron got
From: GUEST,Dave
Date: 22 Mar 16 - 04:06 PM

As you say, they think we have it all because we tell them that we do. And we do that because we pretend to ourselves that we can. We watch property porn, even we know that never in a million years can we have a house like those. We think that we can. We seek not to eliminate the class divides, but to cross them. We seek more material wealth, not because we need it but so that we can look down on others. And then we have the nerve to tell those who are really dispossessed that this is the way they should live.