Subject: Origins: Stewball / Skewball From: Joe Offer Date: 27 Apr 16 - 11:41 PM This is an edited DTStudy thread, and all messages posted here are subject to editing and deletion. This thread is intended to serve as a forum for corrections and annotations for the Digital Tradition song named in the title of this thread. Search for other DTStudy threads
I thought it might be worthwhile to sort our all the different versions of this song. We have five in the Digital Tradition: DT version #2 SKEWBALL (Steeleye Span) You gallant sportsmen all, come listen to my story Its of the bold Skewball, that noble racin' pony Oh, the marvel was the man, who brought bold Skewball over He's the diamond of the land and he rolls about in clover The horses where brought out, with saddle whip and bridle And the gentlemen did shout, when they saw the noble rider And some did shout hooray, the air was thick with curses And on the gray Griselda, the sportsmen laid their purses The trumpet it did sound, they shot off like an arrow They scarcely touched the ground, for the going it was narrow Then Griselda passed him by, the gentlemen did holler The gray will win the day, and Skewball he will follow Then halfway round the course, up spoke the noble rider I fell we must fall back for she's going like a tiger. And when they did discourse, bold Skewball flew like lightning They chased around the course, and the gray mare she was taken Ride on my noble lord, for they have 200 guineas The settle shall be of gold when we become the winners Past the winning post bold Skewball drew quite handy Horse and rider both ordered sherry wine and brandy And then they drank the health of the gallant Miss Griselda And all that lost their money on the sporting plains of Kildare DT #349 Laws Q22 @race @animal Recorded by Steeleye Span on Ten Man Mop, by Andy Irvine. Note: The facts are that sometime about 1790 a race took place on the Curragh of Kildare (near Dublin) between a skewbald horse owned by Sir Arthur Marvel and "Miss Portly", a grey mare owned by Sir Ralph Gore. The race seemed to take the balladmakers' fancy and must have been widely sung: an early printed version appeared in an American song book dated 1829 MJ ...and Leadbelly recorded a version a hundred years later. RG filename[ STWBLHR2 ED DT version #3 STEWBALL (3) There's a big day in Dallas, And I wish I a-was there Spend my las' hundred dollars On that iron gray mare See her travel, all day long, long, long, See her travel all day long, All day long. Well I don't mind horse racing If it wasn't for my wife. Old Stewball may stumble And away with my life Wife and baby, left behind, yeah yeah WIfe and baby, left behind Left behind. Old stewball was a black horsw Jus' as slick as a mole, Had a ring 'round his fore-shoulder And it shined just like gold. Shined like gold, shined like gold, Lord, Lord Shined like gold, shined like gold Shined like gold. Old Stewball was a racehorse, But the poor horse was blind. He ran so fast in Texas Left his shadow behind Behind, behind Left his shadow behind Left behind. Old Stewball was a racehorse And old Molly, she was too. Old Molly, she stumbled And Old Stewball, he just flew. Round the track, round the track, yeah, yeah Round the track, round the track Round the track. DT #349 Laws Q22 As sung by Memphis Slim @animal @horse @race filename[ STWBLHR3 TUNE FILE: STWBLHR3 CLICK TO PLAY RG oct96 DT version #4 SKEWBALL (4) Come, gentlemen sportsmen, I pray listen well, I will sing you a song in praise of Skew Ball; And how he came over, you shall understand, It was by Squire Mervin, the pearl of the land. And of his late actions as you've heard before, He was lately challang'd by one Sir Ralph Gore, For five hundred pounds, on the plains of Kildare, To run with Miss Sportly, that famous grey mare. Skew Ball then hearing the wager was laid, Unto his kind master said -- Don't be afraid; For if on my side you thousands lay would, I would rig on your castle a fine mass of gold! The day being come, and the cattle walk'd forth, The people came flocking from East, South, and North, For to view all the sporters, as I do declare, And venture their money all on the grey mare. Squire Mervin then, smiling, unto them did say, Come, gentlemen, all that have money to lay; And you that have hundreds I will lay you all, For I'll venture thousands on famous Skew Ball. Squire Mervin then smiling, unto them did say, Come gentleman sportsmen, to morrow's the day, Spurs, horses, and saddles and bridles prepare, For you must away to the plains of Kildare. The day being come, and the cattle walk'd out, Squire Mervin order'd his rider to mount, And all the spectators to clear the way, The time being come not one moment delay. The cattle being mounted away they did fly, Skew Ball like an arrow pass'd Miss Sportly by; The people went up to see them go round, They said in their hearts they ne'er touch'd the ground. But as they were running in the midst of the sport, Squire Mervin to his rider began his discourse; O! loving kind rider, come tell unto me, How far at the moment Miss Sportly's from thee; O! loving kind master, you bear a great style, The grey mare's behind you a long English mile, If the saddle maintains me, I'll warrant you there, You ne'er shall be beat on the plains of Kildare. But as they were running by the distant chair, The gentlemen cry'd out -- Skew Ball never fear, Altho' in this country thou was't ne'er seen before, Thou has beaten Miss Sportly, and broke Sir Ralph Gore. This is an Irish song, with several traditional versions known, but the only traditional Irish version I've seen, text and tune, is in the relatively recent book by Hugh Shields, Old Dublin Songs. Shields in his notes mentions no other copy of the song or tune. There is a copy of the song in P. Buchan's MSS in the British Library. Original tune is a puzzle; one old copy says tune is "Money makes the mare to go". Is this a poke of fun, or real? In the 17th century "Money makes the mare to go" was sung to "She got money by th' bargain", which we give later here as SHAMBUY2. "Money will make the mare to go" is the occasional title of the catch that commences "Wilt thou lend me thy mare to go a mile?", but the catch tune doesn't seem to fit this. From < is without music or tune direction. DT #349 Laws Q22 @horse @animal @race filename[ STWBLHR4 WBO APR99 DT version #5 SCEW BALL (STEWBALL) Come gentlemen sportsmen I pray listen all, I will sing you a song in praise of Scew Ball(1), And how he came over you shall understand, It was by Squire Merwin the pearl of our land. And of his late actions that I've heard before, He was lately challeng'd by one Sir Ralph Gore, For five hundred guineas on the plains of Kildare, To run with Miss Sportly, that charming grey mare. Scew Ball he then hearing the wager was laid, Unto his kind master said, don't be afraid, For if on my side you thousands lay would, I will rig in your castle a fine mass of gold. The day being come, and the cattle(2) walk'd forth, The people came flocking from East, North, and South(3), For to view all the sporters, as I do declare, And venture their money all on the grey mare. Squire Mirwin then smiling unto them did say, Come gentlemen all that's got money to lay, And you that have hundreds, come I'll lay you all, For I will venture thousands on famous Scew Ball. The day being come, and the cattle walk'd out, Squire Mirwin he order'd his rider to mount, And all the spectators for to clear the way, The time being come, not one moment delay. These cattle were mounted, and away they did fly, Scew ball like an arrow past Miss Sportly by, The people went up for to see them go round, They said in their hearts that they ne'er touch'd the ground. But as they were running, in the midst of the sport, Squire Mirwin to his rider(4) began this discourse, O loving kind rider come tell unto me, How far is Miss Sportly this moment from me? O loving kind master you bear a great stile, The grey mare's behind me a long English mile, If the saddle maintains, I'll warrant you there, You ne'er will be beat on the plains of Kildare(5). But as they were running by the distance chair, The gentlemen cry'd out, Scew Ball never fear, Altho' in this country thou was ne'er seen before, Thou has beaten Miss Sportly, and broke Sir Ralph Gore. ----- >From a broadside in the Madden Collection, now in the University Library in Cam bridge; reprinted in "Later English Broadside Ballads", ed. Holloway & Black, 19 75. Believed to be eighteenth or early nineteenth century because, although und ated, it does not show the font and style changes which were typical of the earl y nineteenth century printing of broadsides. The ballad is Irish, although this version is from a London printing, sold at 42, Long Lane. 1. Scew Ball - skewbald (c.f. piebald) 2. cattle - horses 3. presumably should be "South and North" for the rhyme. 4. "rider" appears to mean "mount" in this stanza. 5. The races on the plain of Kildare were a great gathering-place for people from all over Ireland. Note from STEWBALL 3: The facts are that sometime around 1790 a race took place on the curragh of Kildare (near Dublin) between a skewbald horse owned by Sir Arthur Marvel and "Miss Portly", a gray mare owned by Sir Ralph Gore. The race seemed to take the balladmakers' fancies, and must have been widely sung; an early printed version appeared in an American song book dated 1829. MJ If MJ's notes are correct, it is interesting that this version gets the winner's name wrong! One also wonders about the name of the grey mare. "Miss Sportly" seems more likely than "Miss Portly", but one never knows. DAD @horse @animal @race DT #349 Laws Q22 filename[ STWBLHR5 DAD apr00 And the entry from the Traditional Ballad Index: Skewball [Laws Q22]DESCRIPTION: (Skewball) and one or more other horses run a race; the crowd favors another animal. (Half way through the course), Skewball tells his rider he will win. He pushes on to victory (and drinks a toast with his rider)AUTHOR: unknown EARLIEST DATE: 1784 (broadside, Bodleian Harding B25) KEYWORDS: horse racing promise FOUND IN: US(MA,MW,NE,SE,SO) Britain(England) REFERENCES (15 citations): Laws Q22, "Skewball" BrownII 136, "Skew Ball" (2 fragments) BrownSchinhanIV 136, "Skew Ball" (1 excerpt, 1 tune) Boswell/Wolfe 51, pp. 88-89, "Skewball" (1 text, 1 tune) Peters, p. 253, "The Noble Skew Bald" (1 text, 1 tune) Thompson-Pioneer 34, "Skewball" (1 text) Flanders-NewGreen, pp. 172-174, "The Noble Sku-ball" (2 texts, 1 tune) Lomax-ABFS, pp. 68-70, "Stewball" (1 text, 1 tune) Scarborough-NegroFS, pp. 62-64, "The Noble Skewball" (1 partial text plus a British version in a footnote, 1 tune) Jackson-DeadMan, pp. 102-110, "Stewball" (4 texts, 1 tune, linked to this by the horse's name Stewball though the versions often seem to pick up pieces of other racing songs, notably "Molly and Tenbrooks" [Laws H27]) Darling-NAS, pp. 151-152, "Stewball" (1 text) Fife-Cowboy/West 8, "Squeball" (2 texts, 1 tune) Silber-FSWB, p. 395, "Stewball" (1 text) DT 349, STWBLHOR STWBLHR2 ADDITIONAL: Moses Asch and Alan Lomax, Editors, _The Leadbelly Songbook_, Oak, 1962, p. 72, "Stewball" (1 text, 1 tune) Roud #456 RECORDINGS: "Bowlegs" [no other name given], "Stewball" (AFS 1863 B4, 1933) Harold B. Hazelhurst, "Stewboy" (AFS 3143 B3, 1939) Harry Jackson, "Old Blue Was a Gray Horse" (on HJackson1) Ed Lewis & prisoners, "Stewball" (on LomaxCD1703) A. L. Lloyd, "Skewball" (on Lloyd3, Lloyd6) Memphis Slim & Willie Dixon, "Stewball" (on ClassAfrAm) Pete Seeger, "Stewball" (on PeteSeeger43) BROADSIDES: Bodleian, Johnson Ballads 999[some lines illegible], "Skew Ball" ("Come gentlemen sportsmen I pray listen all"), J. Pitts (London), 1802-1819; also Harding B 11(3533), Harding B 15(289a), Harding B 15(289b), Harding B 15(290a), Firth c.19(78), Firth c.19(79), Harding B 11(73), Firth b.26(236), "Skew Ball"; Harding B 28(274), Harding B 25(1784), Harding B 25(1785), Harding B 6(54), G.A. Gen. top. b.29(24/2) [some words illegible] "Skewball"; Firth b.25(297), Johnson Ballads 1406, 2806 c.18(282), Firth c.26(51), "Scew Ball" CROSS-REFERENCES: cf. "Molly and Tenbrooks" [Laws H27] (plot) cf. "Little Dun Dee" (plot) NOTES: This seems to have given rise to a work song fragment, "Old Skubald"; see Darling-NAS, p. 325. - RBW Last updated in version 3.5 File: LQ22 Go to the Ballad Search form Go to the Ballad Index Instructions The Ballad Index Copyright 2015 by Robert B. Waltz and David G. Engle. |
Subject: RE: Origins: Stewball / Skewball From: Joe Offer Date: 27 Apr 16 - 11:41 PM
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Stewball / Skewball From: Joe Offer Date: 28 Apr 16 - 12:08 AM Skewball Was a Racehorsehttp://www.tbheritage.com/Portraits/Skewball/Skewball1.htmlSkewball was a racehorse. He was bred by Francis, (2nd) Earl of Godolphin, at his stud, Babraham, Cambridgeshire, and foaled out at Sir John Dutton's (owner of his dam) stud at Sherborne in 1741. His name, as recorded in the General Studbook, was Skewball ("Squball" in Lord Godolphin's studbook), by the Godolphin Arabian, and out of a Whitefoot mare called Bandy (in Godolphin's own studbook). Since he was Godolphin's foal, apparently by prior arrangement with Dutton, with whom he had several such similar agreements, he went back to Babraham in 1743 where he remained until he was sold to a Mr. Blake in 1747 at the age of 6. That same year he passed into the hands of Sir Harry Harpur of Derbyshire, for whom he won two races that year. The General Stud book notes that Skewball was sent to Ireland, as were his half brother Ajaz (1747, by Second) and sister Smirking Nan (1748, by Marksman). Samuel Sidney [The Book of the Horse, 1875, repr. ed. Bonanza Books, 1985] stated Skewball "...won a great number of plates and prizes in England, and one famous match in Ireland." The Irish turf callendar says he won six races worth £508 in 1752, when he was eleven years old, and was the top earning runner of that year in Ireland. The match became the subject of a ballad, Skewball, which has endured, in varying forms, to the present day. The match celebrated by the ballad is listed in Pond's Racing Calendar of 1752. It was held at the Curragh in Kildare, Ireland, on Saturday, March 28, with each participant putting up 300 guineas. Arthur Marvin (also Marvyn, or Mervin) owned Skewball, who carried 8st. 7lb. His opponent was "Sir Ralph Gore's grey mare," carrying the heavier weight of 9 st. Skewball was a gelding, which explains why he was still running at age eleven; although it was not uncommon for horses to run to ages 9 or 10 during that period, successful stallions were usually retired from the turf to commence their stud careers. He won the 4 mile race in 7 minutes and 51 seconds. The various versions of the ballad give a corrupted version of Skewball's owner's name at that time: Irvine, Mervin, and, later, Arthur Marvel. Most versions of the song make a point of telling us that Skewball had never raced "in the land" before, or that he was "brought over," which tallies with the information provided by Sidney. The thousands promised to Mr. Mervin by Skewball in the ballad is almost certainly not hyperbole: often in match races, it was not the purse itself that was of significance, although the 600 guineas actually laid down was not an insubstantial sum, but the side bets placed by the owners, often summing into the thousands of pounds. The grey mare was owned by Sir Ralph Gore, whose family had gained a great deal of land in Ireland with the Protestant Cromwellian invasion (starting in 1650), which probably accounts for the delight in Skewball's win "breaking Sir Gore" in the final lines of this Irish-based broadside. The grey mare, according to Pond's Calendar, was by Victorious, probably either Portmore's Victorious (1725) or Onslow's Victorious (1722). Her name is variously given in the early versions as Miss Sportsley, Miss Portsley. In later versions, she is called Miss Portly or, inexplicably, Griselda [Grizelda, a bay mare of 1752, won four races for Tom Lambert in 1764 at age twelve, making her the top money winner in Ireland that year]. Sir Ralph Gore was a principal breeder in Ireland during this period, and did, in fact, own a famous racemare named Sportley (by Spinner - mare by Somerset Diamond) who was bred by Fulk Greville in 1740 and won a large number of races at Newmarket and elsewhere in England. In 1748 she was sold to Charles Wilson, who later resold her to Gore "...to go to Ireland, in which place she won two King's Plates, two prices of 60 guineas each, and one of 50 guineas, beating most of the horses &c. in high form there." She was later sold to Clotworthy Skeffington, Viscount Masserene and Baron of Lough-Neagh. It may be that the ballad-writers deliberately or confusedly substituted her name into the Skewball story. --Patricia Erigero |
SKEWBALL, bay colt, 1741 - Family 21 | |||
Godolphin Arabian b. 17-- | |||
Bandy 1733 | (Godolphin) Whitefoot b. 1719 | Bay Bolton br. 1705 | Grey (Wilkes') Hautboy |
Makeless Mare | |||
Darley Arabian Mare | Darley Arabian | ||
Byerley Turk Mare | |||
Leedes mare -- | Leedes b. | Leedes' Arabian | |
(Old) Spanker Mare | |||
Moonah Barb Mare c.1699 | -- | ||
-- |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Stewball / Skewball From: Joe Offer Date: 28 Apr 16 - 12:09 AM |
Subject: RE: DTStudy: Stewball / Skewball From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 29 Apr 16 - 01:48 AM The Godolphin stable continues to race in The United Arab Emerates and across the globe It's colors are royal blue and white. His Highness Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Vice President and Prime Minister of the United Arab Emirates and Ruler of Dubai is the founder and owner. https://www.godolphin.com/sitemap/ GOLDOLPHIN STABLES U.A.E. Seabiscuit and Man O' War have been descendants of the Godolphin Arabian. The Godolphin Arabian https://www.godolphin.com/about-us/our-heritage/the-godolphin-arabian/ Sincerely, Gargoyle Dubai hosts the world's richest prize purse each year. |
Subject: RE: DTStudy: Stewball / Skewball From: Joe Offer Date: 12 Jul 20 - 06:34 PM I learned "Stewball" from the Peter, Paul and Mary. Is that exclusive to PP&M, or is the PP&M song more widely used? |
Subject: RE: DTStudy: Stewball / Skewball From: GUEST Date: 13 Jul 20 - 09:05 AM My opinion: Best version is by Martin Carthy, action packed,tense & exciting. The PP&M version seems cute & nostalgic. It's sounds more about them and their trademark harmonies than about the song. As Lou Killen often said "Get behind the song, not in front of it". |
Subject: RE: DTStudy: Stewball / Skewball From: Gordon Jackson Date: 13 Jul 20 - 09:56 AM You're right of course. Guest. |
Subject: RE: DTStudy: Stewball / Skewball From: Monique Date: 13 Jul 20 - 12:13 PM Hugues Aufray and Pierre Delanoë wrote a French version that Hugues Aufray (now 90+) recorded in 1966. |
Subject: RE: DTStudy: Stewball / Skewball From: GUEST,henryp Date: 13 Jul 20 - 05:10 PM The Plains of Kildare, Traditional, arranged by Andy Irvine Come all you bold sportsmen and listen to my story It’s about noble Stewball that gallant racing pony Arthur Marble was the man that first brought Stewball here For to run with Miss Griesel on the Plains of Kildare. O the fame of his actions we’ve heard of before But now he is challenged by young Mrs. Gore For to run with Miss Griesel that handsome grey mare For ten thousand gold guineas on the Plains of Kildare. And the cattle they were brought out with saddle whip and bridle And the gentlemen did shout at the sight of the gallant riders And in viewing the cattle just as they came there O they all laid their money on the Monaghan grey mare. And the order it was given and away they did fly Stewball like an arrow the grey mare passed by And if you had’ve been there for to see them going round You’d’ve thought to your heart their feet ne’er touched the ground. And when at last they came to half way round the course Stewball and his rider began to discourse Says Stewball to the rider “Can you tell to me How far is that grey mare this moment from me.” Says the rider to Stewball “You run in great style You’re ahead of the grey mare almost half a mile And if you keep your running I vow and I swear That you never will be beaten by the Monaghan grey mare.” The last winning post, Stewball passed it quite handy Horse and rider both called for sherry wine and brandy And they drank up a health to the noble grey mare For she emptied their pockets on the Plains of Kildare. “Stewball and the Monaghan Grey Mare” was first recorded by Irvine on the 1976 album: Andy Irvine/Paul Brady, under the title of “The Plains of Kildare”. At the time, Irvine wrote this version to new music, based on earlier versions from Eddie Butcher and A.L. Lloyd, while also using additional sources supplied by Frank Harte. The following background notes were written by Frank Harte for the liner notes of “Andy Irvine and Paul Brady” in 1975. “The first time I heard this song sung was in America where Cisco Houston sang about “Stewball” “I rode him in England, I rode him in Spain I never did lose boys, I always did gain.” There is also another version which found its way into the American negro tradition and was widely sung in the southern work camps. The next time I heard the song, it was sung to me by Bert Lloyd, who called the horse “Skewbald.” In is version, Skewbald was owned by Arthur Marvel and ran against a grey mare called Miss Griselda. “on the Sporting plains of Kildare.” In 1964 Eddie Butcher of Magilligan, Co. Derry sang for me another version of Stewball, who this time was challenged by “young Mrs. Gore” to run against Miss Griesel. I in turn passed the song on to Andy and the version which you hear now is the outcome. The facts are that sometime around 1790 a race took place on the Curragh of Kildare between a skewbald horse owned by Sir Arthur Marvel and “Miss Portly,” a grey mare owned by Sir Ralph Gore. The race seemed to take the balladmakers’ fancy and must have been widely sung — an early printed version appeared in an American song book dated 1829. The song as sung here is a combination of Bert Lloyd’s version and Eddie Butcher’s version, but I think, for the future, it can only properly be called Andy Irvine’s version.” -Frank Harte, 1975 |
Subject: RE: DTStudy: Stewball / Skewball From: Lighter Date: 17 Aug 22 - 09:24 PM That "American song book" is "The Songster's Museum" (Hartford [Conn.]: Henry Benton, 1829). "The Noble Scuball [sic]" is the very first song, and the text is clearly taken from a British broadside. The later American versions of the song appear to be entirely recreated from this or a similar source, evidently from memory. |
Subject: RE: DTStudy: Stewball / Skewball From: leeneia Date: 24 Aug 22 - 04:34 AM Here's how I sing it, based on 1960's versions no doubt with some folk processing by me. Tune is the Peter Paul and Mary version, I'm pretty sure. Oh Stewball was a racehorse, and I wish he were mine. He never drank water, he always drank wine. His bridle was silver, and the bit it was gold. And the worth of his saddle has never been told. So come all you gamblers, whoever you are and don't put your money on the little gray mare. Most likely she'll stumble; perhaps she will fall. But you never will lose boys, on noble Stewball. Oh the fairgrounds were crowded, and Stewball was there and the betting was heavy on the bay and the mare. But a-way up yonder, ahead of them all, Came a-prancin' and dancin' my noble Stewball. I bet on the gray mare, and I bet on the bay I'd a bet on old Stewball, be a rich man today. But wherever I wander, and wherever I roam, I'm a poor boy in trouble and a long way from home. ========= I've been to the horse races two or three times. For me the best part is the sound of the crowd as the horses approach the finish. There is no other sound quite like it. It is my belief that as for betting on the horses, you might as well bet on Poohsticks for all you can predict. The boy in the song backs this up - he's enamored of Stewball, but it's all hindsight. |
Subject: RE: DTStudy: Stewball / Skewball From: Lighter Date: 29 Aug 22 - 03:27 PM That's a great lyric, leenaia, wherever it came from. |
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