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BS: Ark at the scoffers !
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Subject: RE: BS: Ark at the scoffers ! From: Rob Naylor Date: 23 Jun 16 - 08:53 AM Pete, And the scoffers have it! Apart from the fact that it's taken dozens (maybe hundreds?) of people with all the modern high-tech tools, giant cranes etc years to construct, whereas Noah is supposed to have done it with 8 people in a much shorter time, it would never in a million years float. While it may do very well as a large timber-frame dwelling on land, the minute you tried to put it into the water it'd fall to bits. The apology for a keel is far too lightweight and the boat would "hog" in the middle and break its back as soon as you tried to float it. I can't even see that it *has* a keelson. In addition the framing is too light to stand up to the stress and movement it would undergo at sea....even if by some "miracle" the hogging didn't break its back, the frames would twist at the knees and the vessel would break up. And from what I can see there's no camber or crown to the decking, so any water that came inboard would drain badly if at all. Now I wonder why Mr Ham didn't build the thing to actually float? Hmmmm! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ark at the scoffers ! From: Joe Offer Date: 23 Jun 16 - 05:34 AM The 2007 film Evan Almighty told the story of a congressman (Steve Carell) who is selected by the Almighty to build an ark. Lots of entertaining special effects, and a pretty good story - and a fairly seaworthy ark. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ark at the scoffers ! From: Senoufou Date: 23 Jun 16 - 03:51 AM Like London buses, one's post won't arrive, then two come along at once! (Sorry about this, kept pressing but nothing happened.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ark at the scoffers ! From: Senoufou Date: 23 Jun 16 - 03:45 AM If God sent the animals, I expect the local population were astonished to watch the endless procession of thousands of species 'two by two' as the song goes. Even those that breathe through their nostrils would have numbered...well, lots. They must have been even more astonished at their first glimpse of kangaroos and polar bears. Knowing Siamese cats, I bet you anything you like they got on board. The little sods get bloody everywhere. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ark at the scoffers ! From: Senoufou Date: 23 Jun 16 - 03:34 AM I'm not entirely sure when Noah built his ark but it couldn't have been even one million years ago. And 'speciation' would have occurred over several million years. So kangaroos, duck-billed platypus, pangolins etc already existed (and presumably being drowned by God) while the ark was bobbing around on the flood. Either that, or Noah did live during the Stone Age, so were woolly mammoths and sabre-tooth tigers on board? You can't have it both ways. I'd pay to watch a re-enactment of Sodom and Gomorrah. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ark at the scoffers ! From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 22 Jun 16 - 10:33 PM But will if float? Or do they have to wait for another Flood before they find out? Maybe tthey've got plans to organise one. Though of course that would be clear against what's guaranteed in the Genesis account... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ark at the scoffers ! From: Greg F. Date: 22 Jun 16 - 09:33 PM Maybe this Ark could become a kind of floating Disneyland... Its already fantasyland. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ark at the scoffers ! From: Donuel Date: 22 Jun 16 - 09:07 PM An ark has no power plant or navigation aids. Ergo The ideal ark would have a hull shaped like a wide parabola and a bow on each end that slopes in toward the ship and not away from the ship which 100 % of cruise ships today unfortunately have. This self correcting configuration would behave in changing currents nicely. But the roll & spin effect on the passengers would be brutal. Buuuiiicckk EUUrooope |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ark at the scoffers ! From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 22 Jun 16 - 07:17 PM Arkville was the neighbouring town to Toytown. Larry the Lamb wasn't too keen on it - but it was said to have a Town Dragon. You can hear about it on Spotify. Maybe this Ark could become a kind of floating Disneyland... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ark at the scoffers ! From: Pete from seven stars link Date: 22 Jun 16 - 06:04 PM Good joke about ham joe ! The ark took a long time to construct, and Noah was "a preacher of righteousness "during this time. He may have hired labour . He did,nt get the animals on board, God sent them. Sienese cats were not on board , they arrived by probably artificial selection a long time after. Probably not polars either , but representatives of the bear kind from which speciation to the various species. Insects were not in the two by twos as they are not creatures that breathe through their nostrils , as scripture indicates. But were they included they would take little room. Goodnight from here ... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ark at the scoffers ! From: Pete from seven stars link Date: 22 Jun 16 - 05:38 PM Well, this has floated nicely already, with mostly good humoured comments. There's been a few queries/ponderings so see what I can contribute.... Cubits , apparently in antiquity there was the common and the royal cubit. AIG have opted for the latter which is larger. They have also opted to make it look more like a ship, whereas most creationists have gone for a long box model. In fact I wrote a song called great big box, which usually goes down well ( er...reverse pun..) at singaround. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ark at the scoffers ! From: Doug Chadwick Date: 22 Jun 16 - 04:20 PM It's the distance from the tip of a man's middle finger to his nose, facing forwards with his arm stretched out sideways. A bit under a metre, I guess. Isn't that the yard? It's how tailors were supposed to measure yards of cloth. DC |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ark at the scoffers ! From: Donuel Date: 22 Jun 16 - 03:49 PM Genesis sure got the light thing right That's good. http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/231/manifesto |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ark at the scoffers ! From: Joe Offer Date: 22 Jun 16 - 02:39 PM Well, whether it's true or not, the Noah saga is a pretty good story, and the source of some very good songs. Wikipedia says the dimensions of the ark were specified in Genesis as 300 cubits in length, 50 cubits in width and 30 cubits in height (440x73x44 ft where the front is a golden ratio). The "Ark Encounter" ark is 510 feet (160 m) long and 81 feet (25 m) high, so there seems to be some disagreement about size. Anyhow, we can safely say that the Ark was about 500 feet long, made of gopher wood - whatever that is/was. The battleship U.S.S. Missouri is 887 feet long and 108 feet wide, so the Ark was/is considerably smaller. I saw the Missouri in Hawaii. Our cruise ship, the Pride of America, was considerable larger at 921 feet in length and a beam of 106 feet. AIG is Answers in Genesis, a corporation founded and headed by Ken Ham. Ham, of course, is the second son of Noah. Shem and Japeth died some 6,246 years ago, after surviving the Big Flood and spending many years being fruitful and multiplying. You can get tickets for the Ark and the neighboring Creation Museum at https://arkencounter.com/ And the Ark has its own YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwFrI64absE3Zo8025TfVeQ The State of Kentucky awarded a hefty tax break of $18 million to the museum: There are lots of good stories in Genesis. I personally see them as sacred myth, but I don't really get too concerned about whether to believe them or not. But they're good stories, and I wouldn't mind seeing the Ark and the museum. It could be a fun place. The planned Tower of Babel could be very interesting, and I wonder how they'll depict the Garden of Eden and Sodom and Gomorrah. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ark at the scoffers ! From: Donuel Date: 22 Jun 16 - 02:29 PM I have seen many inland Arks. They do make sense in California, Louisiana, Florida, all due to global warming and tectonic events. Mississippi tribes made mounds to escape flooding. Today they are deemed mystery mounds. Its good for the locals. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ark at the scoffers ! From: Senoufou Date: 22 Jun 16 - 02:28 PM My lovely father-in-law is called Noufou (Noah in Malinke) He believes every word of the story. I don't say anything, he's such a dear man. (Very old, but not 600) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ark at the scoffers ! From: keberoxu Date: 22 Jun 16 - 02:14 PM Sadly, brings back memories of Bill Cosby when his career was still alive. How we loved his storytelling, then, and for years after. What a loss. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ark at the scoffers ! From: FreddyHeadey Date: 22 Jun 16 - 02:14 PM I imagine Noah had more of an supervisory roll by then. He would have had a team or family helping? Just chopping down all that timber must have taken a while. Have we got any quantity surveyors on Mudcat? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ark at the scoffers ! From: Senoufou Date: 22 Jun 16 - 01:45 PM The Tower of Babel story is interesting from a linguistics point of view. Apparently the builders couldn't understand each other and so built a disastrously unstable and strange edifice. Do you suppose we might have the same problems in UK today with so many men from various countries across Europe on building sites? How do the foremen communicate their instructions? I can't quite see how Noah being 600 years old would help with the lack of power tools. He must have been using a Zimmer frame by then. I meant indri NOT idris above. Idris is the drink I drink when I'se dry. Still wondering about the kangaroos etc ... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ark at the scoffers ! From: FreddyHeadey Date: 22 Jun 16 - 01:32 PM Ark Encounter "...Additional future phases for the attraction include a pre-Flood walled city, the Tower of Babel, a first-century village, a journey in history from Abraham to the parting of the Red Sea, a walk-through aviary, an expanded petting zoo, and other attractions that uphold the truth of God's Word." https://arkencounter.com/about/ Watch the video https://youtu.be/Nsk5S36AKfI Yes, they are using power tools today but remember Noah was 600 years old before God sent the flood. go to > 4:10 here https://youtu.be/7nFxl6N1nLw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ark at the scoffers ! From: DMcG Date: 22 Jun 16 - 12:58 PM Are we going to see some observational science as they stock it with the appropriate number of animals of each kind? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ark at the scoffers ! From: Senoufou Date: 22 Jun 16 - 12:52 PM I had a lovely model of Noah's ark as a child in the late forties. The animals were all made of lead. I used to suck them (the elephants were the tastiest, I seem to remember) Do you suppose my parents were rather tired of me .....? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ark at the scoffers ! From: Senoufou Date: 22 Jun 16 - 12:49 PM cubit = the length of the forearm (or about 18 inches) Donuel hahaha! If I'd been on board (doubtful, as I'm extremely wicked) I'd have made myself responsible for the Siamese cats. Did they have Felix cat food in those days I wonder? Also, we're told the raven did not come back (presumably flew until it drowned) so how did the remaining bird reproduce? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ark at the scoffers ! From: Backwoodsman Date: 22 Jun 16 - 12:47 PM Correction - its the distance from the tip of the middle finger to the elbow - about 18 inches. The other one IS an ancient measurement, probably Egyptian, but I can't recall what it was called. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ark at the scoffers ! From: Backwoodsman Date: 22 Jun 16 - 12:45 PM It's the distance from the tip of a man's middle finger to his nose, facing forwards with his arm stretched out sideways. A bit under a metre, I guess. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ark at the scoffers ! From: meself Date: 22 Jun 16 - 12:38 PM So ... what IS a 'cubit' anyway? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ark at the scoffers ! From: Donuel Date: 22 Jun 16 - 12:36 PM Amazon |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ark at the scoffers ! From: Senoufou Date: 22 Jun 16 - 12:32 PM By the way (just musing) where did Noah get a pair of kangaroos, polar bears, anacondas, penguins, idris, platypus and Siamese cats? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ark at the scoffers ! From: Donuel Date: 22 Jun 16 - 12:28 PM death to the infidels, I know I know. Let my death be attributed to gods vengeance. Does that make you feel better Bunky. I hope they fing he ark. I would look for the dna of the unicorns who died at sea. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ark at the scoffers ! From: Senoufou Date: 22 Jun 16 - 12:28 PM It seems that an organisation called AIG has constructed a full-size ark adhering to the exact dimensions as recorded in Genesis in the bible. They have mounted an exhibition for families to come and explore it. Some objectors have asked for funding to attend so that they can mount some form of protest, as presumably they don't believe the thing was possible. I have just watched the video of AIG, and saw large numbers of men in hi-viz jackets and helmets, lots of heavy plant, cranes and machinery, vast piles of huge timbers and some stuffed animals such as a baby giraffe and a deer. If Noah, with only the help of his immediate family (all the others were wicked, we are told, and fated to drown in the flood) managed to construct such a vessel, and in addition persuade a selection of pairs of carnivores, herbivores, insects, birds, mammals etc to board the ship... then he was one hell of a site manager! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ark at the scoffers ! From: Greg F. Date: 22 Jun 16 - 12:23 PM Yup - a faithful copy of an imaginary boat. Total and absolute nonsense. Same intellectual level as Holocaust denial & flat earthism. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Ark at the scoffers ! From: mkebenn Date: 22 Jun 16 - 12:12 PM Pete, again I'm not the sharpest tool, but I'm lost here. Mike |
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Subject: BS: Ark at the scoffers ! From: Pete from seven stars link Date: 22 Jun 16 - 11:57 AM Confession first....I am breaking my own customary habit o not being the first to bring up THaT TOpIc, but I just read something that seems strange . AIG open the ark encounter July 7th at williamstown, Kentucky with their full size conception of what it looked like. They included a video on their site of a well known atheist blogger asking for donations to fund travel to the opening event to hold a protest meeting there with yet to be confirmed ...cool speakers... The irony is , that it will add authenticity as the unbelievers mocked Noah too !. |