Tech: Wi-fi/ethernet issues

Subject: Tech: Wi-fi/ethernet issues
From: nickp
Date: 27 Jun 16 - 12:04 PM

Ok techies

I have Windows 10, IE 11 and the latest Firefox. I'm not too tech savvy but can manage.

I have issues with Hotmail (now Outlook of course) and my ISP email (Tiscali/Talk Talk).

For the last few months, when using an Ethernet connection I get both Hotmail and Tiscali failing connections. If I switch to wireless - through the same router - they almost always work. I don't see it being an IP address issue because of the router and as far as I can tell I have nothing unusual in my set up although I do have a number of networked drives and printer.

I know Hotmail has had difficulties recently but this appears to be a totally separate issue.

Any suggestions (apart from going to Mac/Linux that is...)?

Cheers, Nick

Subject: RE: Tech: Wi-fi/ethernet issues
From: DaveRo
Date: 27 Jun 16 - 12:40 PM

So, essentially your wifi is more reliable than your ethernet. Unusual - it's normally the other way around. The fact that it's Hotmail or Tiscali is almost certainly irrelevant - you either have a good internet connection or you haven't.

First - are you sure that your wifi is connecting to your own router and not your neighbour's? Worth checking.

If not that, it might be other ethernet kit, the router itself, the ethernet adapter in your computer, its configuration, or the cable. Unplug any other ethernet equipment and reboot the router. Check that the RJ45 plugs and sockets are clean and secure. Try another cable - older ones may not work well with newer faster equipment. Route it away from mains wiring. Try another socket on the router. Check that you have the latest driver in the computer - if you converted to Win10 you may have a default one. There may be a setting to reduce the speed (Device manager, Network adapter, properties at a guess.)

Failing all that you need another computer or another router to eliminate one or the other.

I'm not going to suggest Linux, but you could try a Linux 'live CD' to test whether you get the same problem as with Windows.

Subject: RE: Tech: Wi-fi/ethernet issues
From: nickp
Date: 27 Jun 16 - 01:17 PM

Thanks Dave. Generally (!) the rest of the internet access seems OK. Not only that but using a netbook/tablet (Win10) seems fine.

Definitely my router being connected. I will try replacing cables where practical and generally poking it about!

I do have another router which I guess I may have to resort to, it's just that everything else seems to be fine and I am loathe to go through re-setting-up.

Oh, and a reboot will usually sort the problem out but only for a short time. Strange.

Nick

Subject: RE: Tech: Wi-fi/ethernet issues
From: EBarnacle
Date: 27 Jun 16 - 04:23 PM

I was going to suggest exactly what DaveRo suggested. It is also possible that your provider is getting ready to "suggest" an upgrade in your service but equipment issues are the more likely cause.

Subject: RE: Tech: Wi-fi/ethernet issues
From: nickp
Date: 27 Jun 16 - 05:03 PM

Thanks I'll keep playing. Driver is up to date. I can get fresh cables.

Subject: RE: Tech: Wi-fi/ethernet issues
From: Mr Red
Date: 28 Jun 16 - 04:16 AM

The most likely techie explanation (IMHO) would be a race issue.
A race hazard is when there are two parallel conduits (wire/logic or in this case packets), then there is the handshaking - acknowledge-received & send more kind of thing.

Maybe the wireless is slowing up the transfers and the handshaking has been done before more packets start to arrive. I am not sure but maybe wireless is one way at a time, and cable allows both directions simultaneously. Which could cause a race hazard. Plus a unique condition with your location/set-up.
Just like steering your car is easier at lower speeds because the delay in your brain (250 mS ish) better suits the speed of information arriving to it.

Subject: RE: Tech: Wi-fi/ethernet issues
From: DaveRo
Date: 28 Jun 16 - 04:45 AM

The two ends have to negotiate the speed - called autosensing. It'll go at the highest speed each end supports, but you may be able to slow it down in Windows.

I was with Tiscali once; their Thomson routers - now rebranded Technicolor - were crap. I used, and still use, an ancient Netgear_DG834v3 instead. Very fast and reliable. ~£15 on ebay (only get v3) if you want to test an alternative. That's for ADSL though, not fibre (VDSL).

Subject: RE: Tech: Wi-fi/ethernet issues
From: nickp
Date: 28 Jun 16 - 06:08 AM

Def not fibre and using a reliable (I assume) Netgear of some form. Puzzling that I seem to get good speed for everything (as far as I can tell). And also puzzling the a reboot has the effect of sorting it out for a while.

Subject: RE: Tech: Wi-fi/ethernet issues
From: DaveRo
Date: 29 Jun 16 - 07:27 AM

nickp wrote: Driver is up to date.

I assume that's Win 10 telling you that. It doesn't mean that the driver works, though, or that it's the best one available. I recently installed Win 10 - it said the graphics driver was up to date but it didn't actually work! I got a new one from the manufacturer's own site. So you could look and see what make/model of adapter it is and see if there's a better one. In my case there wasn't one for Win 10 so I used the one for Win 8 - they will usually work. They normally come as as a self-extracting zip that installs the driver.

Having said that I doubt if it's the problem. Ethernet adapters are very reliable IME and haven't changed much in years.

How convinced are you that the problem only/mainly affects Hotmail/Tiscali email? I can't think of a mechanism whereby the email program or browser could be affected by, or even aware of, whether it's wifi or ethernet connecting to the router. Could there be another explanation - e.g. it happens mainly after startup and you always check your email first?

If it really does only affect email then there's something very odd going on. But have a look at this. That's not the same, but maybe your problem is similarly bizarre.

Subject: RE: Tech: Wi-fi/ethernet issues
From: nickp
Date: 29 Jun 16 - 11:37 AM

How strange, the link is for a similar problem but opposite way round...

They refer to Office 2013. Now, I still use Office 2003 (or I think it's 2003, certainly an earlier version) so I wonder if there's something related. I'll have a look. But that shouldn't have the blocking(for want of a better description) of Tiscali.

Hmmm

Subject: RE: Tech: Wi-fi/ethernet issues
From: Andrez
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 01:51 AM

Ahhhhh the glory days of Office 2003 when we knew where everything was in the menu system and there was no ribbon in sight. If thats what you are working with well and good but don't be in a rush to upgrade to the latest WIn 10 version of office. You may not appreciate the 'improved customer experience' or the learning curve in finding where everything has been hidden by the ribbon.

Cheers,

Andrez

Subject: RE: Tech: Wi-fi/ethernet issues
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 02:39 AM

There is a free Excel add on called Ubitmenu which provides the old Excel 2003 menu items!

Subject: RE: Tech: Wi-fi/ethernet issues
From: BobL
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 03:30 AM

Before I risk trying it, does anyone know if it works with Excel Starter 2010?

Subject: RE: Tech: Wi-fi/ethernet issues
From: Mr Red
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 03:58 AM

I can't think of a mechanism whereby the email program or browser could be affected by, or even aware of, whether it's wifi or ethernet connecting to the router.

if it thinks there need be no difference - it won't care. Or more pertinently, the programmers didn't think it through/test thoroughly. The permutations are legion. It may very well be in your computer (or the server s/w), be it driver, graphics or PHP, and then the race hazard scenario is a distinct possibility.

I personally would live with it if there is a workaround and it only affects certain usages. Change the driver and you change other things, some noticeable..... And some annoying, then the spaghetti unravels.

FWIW I use a BT (notso) HotSpot and between: the priorities in someone's router, the handover from router to router, the WiFi sharing, the load on neighbourhood pipe (throttling), the CDN, BT's data collection ---- most times I see the effects of lost packets, and failed handshaking.
My F5 button is showing signs of wear.

Subject: RE: Tech: Wi-fi/ethernet issues
From: DaveRo
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 05:59 AM

nickp wrote: Now, I still use Office 2003...But that shouldn't have the blocking(for want of a better description) of Tiscali.

What program do you use to access Tiscali mail? And how does this 'blocking' exhibit?

BobL wrote: Before I risk trying it, does anyone know if it works with Excel Starter 2010?

If you mean Win 10, then No. See also this_thread.

Subject: RE: Tech: Wi-fi/ethernet issues
From: nickp
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 06:26 AM

Tiscali I use the one they provide - as here - but it implies it's webmail of some form.

As for what it says, I'll have to wait until I'm back home, switch from Wi-Fi to wired and see what happens.

Subject: RE: Tech: Wi-fi/ethernet issues
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jun 16 - 08:15 PM

Run a background check...like the old "fire sheep" to see who is surfing your bandwidth.