BS: Labour party discussion

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Feb 17 - 08:39 PM

Don't respond, Jim. Give the mods the chance to sort this out.

---

Sorry, folks. Too late. You didn't seem to understand my request to get back on the subject. Yes, it's true that one side might be 60% right and the other 40%, but I see no good in trying to sort the thing out. There's just too much animosity floating around here, and none of the moderators want to bother wasting their time reading it. I know I must be right on this, because I'm getting flak from both liberals and conservatives who want me to declare one side right and the other wrong. As I see it, both sides are wrong if they engage in insults and combat in Mudcat threads.
As I often told my children, I don't care who's right and who's wrong - I just want the fighting to stop.
Thread closed. Feel free to start a new thread on the subject, but don't open old wounds. Talk about the frickin' subject.
To my mind, closing a thread is not a punitive action. It's just to give everybody a little breathing room before they settle down and get back to the discussion.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: bobad
Date: 02 Feb 17 - 08:28 PM

Bobad has used the term "Jew Hater"

Jew hater, anti-Semite all the same and I stand by it.

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Feb 17 - 08:23 PM

I just need to swiftly correct something there. You did threaten to suspend me last June but not about religion. You did lay into me privately round about the same time about what you called my obsession with religion but that wasn't the source of the suspension threat. Apologies for that.

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Feb 17 - 08:17 PM

My apologies for putting you on the spot once again Joe, but I complained about this situation fairly recently -
I'm sure you did your best and things calmed down somewhat, but now we seem to be back to square one - Steve and Greg have also been in Bobad's sights - none of us are responsible for the situation that has again arisen - Bobad has used the term "Jew Hater" around ten times on this thread alone and he regularly uses it on others - this is one of his early offering here
"Careful.........ha, ha, the little Irish Jew hating Nazi has been spewing his anti-Semitic vomit on here forever, MGM had him pegged too.".
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Feb 17 - 08:09 PM

The job of tbe mods is onerous and some of us don't help at times. But it absolutely IS your business Joe, and let me tell you why. I don't hate Jews, I don't believe in conspiracy theories about Jews, I support the existence of Israel and I support the people of Israel. Not one post of mine on this board could be taken by any reasonable person to suggest otherwise. You have singled people out on this board for being vexatious, including me, Dave and, as we've been discussing, Greg. You threatened to suspend me because you didn't like me criticising organised religion, remember? I can't and won't argue with any of that. But if you and the other moderators on the other hand are prepared to allow foul lies about other members to stand just because you don't like us much, then you are to blame if the ethos of the forum collapses. I mean, what do you expect me to do if I'm constantly harassed by someone calling me a Jew-hater if you won't step in to help? Time and time and TIME again? No, really, do tell me. If in the face of that all you can do is tell us to "stick to the topic," then you are seriously letting the whole place down.

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Feb 17 - 07:45 PM

Can we sort out the situation where the automatic response to attempting to discuss serious problems is to spit out vitriolic accusations of antisemitism and refuse to substantiate them?
There can be little argument that this is the case with Bobad.
Up to fairly recently, this has also been the case with Teribus - there is proof enough of this in the long and still partial examples of that abuse, which now stretches back over several years.
It is somewhat unfair to select a posting of made in extreme anger and totally ignore far worse abuse dating back years - or maybe you have chosen to disregard yerars of insulting and abuse by these two.
I have no desire to wreck a thread (even though I believe this to have been milked totally dry) but I refused to be bullied into silence by schoolyard bullies
C'mon Joe - do you really believe me to be "Jew Hater"?
If you do, please feel free to give me a single example.
My offer to Bobad is extended to you - a generous donation to any charity you care to name if you produce one example of my attacking the Jewish People   
The behaviour of this individual is hate-mail, pure and simple - it is not what I have come to expect as tolerable by this forum.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: Joe Offer
Date: 02 Feb 17 - 07:29 PM

Whatever the case, please get back to the subject of discussion and stop the personal animosity, or the thread gets closed. It's not our business to figure out who's lying about whom.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Feb 17 - 07:01 PM

Your intervention is timely, Joe. However, it isn't just personal attacks. It's downright lies. Bobad has told horrid lies about me twice since 01.45pm today in this thread. He has withdrawn one but the other remains and it is the same lie, levelled at Jim as well as me I should add, that has been his narrative since long before the rule-change prevented him from doing it anonymously. You may not care much for your usual suspects and we have ourselves to blame for that. But, in the name of trying to keep this place at least a little civilised, I would ask you to consider whether that sort of personal attack is really the kind of thing that should be indulged by leaving the perpetrator in place as a member of this forum. Thank you for listening, if you are.

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: Joe Offer
Date: 02 Feb 17 - 06:32 PM

Thread #160410   Message #3836357
Posted By: Jim Carroll
02-Feb-17 - 03:47 PM
Thread Name: BS: Labour party discussion
Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion

he's not as careful as you"
Prove it you racist scum
Jim Carroll

---

A number of you have crossed the line into the area of personal attack. Stop it now, or we'll close the thread. Stick to the topic of discussion, and stop the personal infighting.
Thank you.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Feb 17 - 05:06 PM

Glad you enjoyed it, Keith and that you are back safe and sound. Shame nothing seems to have altered on here :-( Do you not fancy sharing your holiday experiences with us instead of going through all the same old arguments with the same people?

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: bobad
Date: 02 Feb 17 - 04:33 PM

Prove it

It just has been, you dolt.

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Feb 17 - 03:47 PM

he's not as careful as you"
Prove it you racist scum
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: bobad
Date: 02 Feb 17 - 03:23 PM

I have never posted anything remotely resembling that comment, thank you.

I apologize for the mis-attribution. Checking back I see that it was your pal Carroll who made that comment - he's not as careful as you.

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Feb 17 - 02:55 PM

Oh no Shaw you think you are so clever that anybody is fooled by your substituting "Israelis" for Jews when you post stuff like 'the Labour rightists got help from the Israelis with accusations of anti-semitism.'. Do you really think anyone believes you are including Israeli Arabs or Druze or any of the other nationalities that make up Israel when you post shit like that? Ge me a f***ing break.

I have never posted anything remotely resembling that comment, thank you. I'm very careful to focus my criticism on the Israeli regime and have frequently defended both the state and the people of Israel. And you don't deserve breaks, for your sexual pleasure or for anything else.

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Feb 17 - 02:54 PM

"Filthy slanderous lies all - I demand a retraction."
Demand away - you'll get as much of a retraction as you have given proof of my antisemitism.
You said what you said and you are what you are - the proof of the pudding..... and all that
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: bobad
Date: 02 Feb 17 - 02:46 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: Jim Carroll - PM
Date: 02 Feb 17 - 02:37 PM

Yes you did
You said Blacks lusted after white women and Britain was in danger of becoming a nation of half breeds because of them
You described women as second class and not knowing their place in society
So described homosexuals as perverted disease carriers.
Your most memorable description was of Arabs as a cultureless horde who had no legitimate right to anywhere on the planet - especially to land that had been given to the Jewish People divine right
Jim Carroll



Filthy slanderous lies all - I demand a retraction.

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Feb 17 - 02:37 PM

Yes you did
You said Blacks lusted after white women and Britain was in danger of becoming a nation of half breeds because of them
You described women as second class and not knowing their place in society
So described homosexuals as perverted disease carriers.
Your most memorable description was of Arabs as a cultureless horde who had no legitimate right to anywhere on the planet - especially to land that had been given to the Jewish People divine right
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: bobad
Date: 02 Feb 17 - 02:09 PM

You have attacked Arabs,blacks, women and homosexuals here on Mudcat

You are a filthy anti-Semitic liar.

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: bobad
Date: 02 Feb 17 - 02:06 PM

Not once on this forum have I ever blamed "Jews" for anything,

Oh no Shaw you think you are so clever that anybody is fooled by your substituting "Israelis" for Jews when you post stuff like 'the Labour rightists got help from the Israelis with accusations of anti-semitism.'. Do you really think anyone believes you are including Israeli Arabs or Druze or any of the other nationalities that make up Israel when you post shit like that? Ge me a f***ing break.

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Feb 17 - 01:57 PM

"So Tom Watson is a friend of Israel"
No he isn't and even if he was, what does anthis have anything to do with accusations of antisemitism in the labour party
Until charges are specified, there is no case to answer - simple British and natural justice.
Jeremy Corbyn isn't being accused of being a friend of Hamas - except by you trolls
You have attacked Arabs,blacks, women and homosexuals here on Mudcat - you have drawn your islamophobic information from sites like Muslim Watch, the BNP, and "White Supremacist"
Why should anybody take the word of someone like you?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: bobad
Date: 02 Feb 17 - 01:51 PM

So Tom Watson is a friend of Israel and Jeremy Corbin is a friend of Hamas and Hezbollah.

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Feb 17 - 01:49 PM

You need to stop telling lies. Not once on this forum have I ever blamed "Jews" for anything, and that thought has never been in my head.

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: bobad
Date: 02 Feb 17 - 01:45 PM

All very well and good Keith but according to Shaw and Carroll it's Jews who are behind the anti-Semitism in the Labour party so by extension it's Jews who are the cause of the rise in anti-Semitism, which isn't really anti-Semitism at all according to them - it's just the way Jews use the charge of it to control media and governments. They have it all figured out you see.

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Feb 17 - 01:45 PM

"Tom Watson "
"Nonetheless, supporters of Israel are bolstered by the arrival in the shadow cabinet of Tom Watson, the now hugely powerful deputy leader.
Mr Watson, who abstained in last October's vote and is a vice-chair of Trade Union Friends of Israel, is robustly anti-boycott. His stance was shaped by both his background in campus politics - Labour Students, in which he was a key player in the early 1990s, has long allied with the Union of Jewish Students - and his political apprenticeship at the hands of Ken Jackson, pro-Israel leader of the old AEEU union, and John Spellar, the West Midlands MP who leads Labour's right-wing traditionalists."
"He is Vice Chair of Trade Union Friends of Israel"
Expenses fiddler
"On 10 May 2009 it was revealed that since being re-elected to parliament in 2005, Watson had claimed the maximum £4,800 allowance for food in a single year. From 2005 to 2009, Watson and Iain Wright claimed over £100,000 on a central London flat they share.[25] Watson responded that a "pizza wheel" that appeared on a Marks & Spencer receipt he had submitted was given as a free gift after he spent £150 at the store. He added:
All claims were made under the rules set out by the House of Commons authorities. I fully understand why the public expects the system to be reformed. I voted for this last week and only hope that reforms can go even further as quickly as possible.[25]"

And still no description of the type of"Anti Semitism" Labour is accused of therefore there is no case to answer
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Feb 17 - 01:40 PM

Dave, yes thank you, and we feel so much better for it.
Thanks too for your good wishes when I left.

Steve, the BBC considered it worth reporting, so what is your dismissal worth?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38836536

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Feb 17 - 01:27 PM

Unbelievable! 😂😂😂

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Feb 17 - 01:23 PM

Hello Keith. Good holiday?

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Feb 17 - 01:15 PM

A report links Labour Party anti-Semitism to a sudden increase in Anti-Semitic attacks in UK.

Telegraph today.
"Anti-Semitic incidents within the Labour party contributed to a record rise in attacks on Jews in the UK last year, a charity report has found.
The Community Security Trust (CST) warned that anti-Semitism increased to "unprecedented" levels between 2014 and 2016 following a string of high-profile problems in Jeremy Corbyn's party.
The charity revealed its highest monthly total for attacks came in May last year, just days after Naz Shah, a Labour MP, was suspended from the party alongside Ken Livingstone the former London mayor.

Tom Watson, the deputy Labour leader, vowed to fight against anti-Semitismin the party as a result of the findings, while MP John Mann said the report must act as a "stark warning that something must change".
The Jewish community was targeted at a rate of more than three times a day last year, the CST found. It recorded 1,309 anti-Semitic incidents nationwide during 2016. This was a 36 per cent increase on 2015 and surpassed the previous highest annual tally of 1,182 in 2014.
There was no obvious single cause for the record total last year, the report found, but it added that problems within the Labour party "may have contributed in a more indirect way". The party was forced to confront a series of incidents of anti-Semitism last year including remarks made by members on Twitter and at public meetings."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/02/labour-party-linked-increase-anti-semitic-incidents-according/

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: Teribus
Date: 20 Jan 17 - 01:19 PM

Bad week for Corbyn.

May's "Clueless" remark hit the target at PMQs and today he is reported as recycling Ed Miliband's old ideas.

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Jan 17 - 12:43 PM

Perhaps I shouldn't invoke the name Farage here but he is going to get his own radio shock jock show and rant for big bucks

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Jan 17 - 03:31 AM

I doubt if anybody with eiter sense or humanity will enjoy either Brexit or Thrump the thug's victory - though there are some who will reveli in the latter
I see the Klan are on the move again
Enjoy the attention
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Jan 17 - 03:13 AM

It'll outlast us, ake!

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: akenaton
Date: 19 Jan 17 - 05:47 PM

Not going to happen in the near future Dave, and by that time the EU will be long gone.

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Jan 17 - 04:03 PM

It'll be even funnier when Scotland get independence and rejoin the EU won't it ake :-)

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: akenaton
Date: 19 Jan 17 - 03:37 PM

Thanks Jim, have a good Brexit   :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Jan 17 - 11:53 AM

"he disnae take any shite".
He talks a lot of it though
"Teribus has called me an "eejit" many a time"
Musty have forgotten his medication - don't take it too hard
"mobbing Keith and trying to intimidate him."
The branch of the Klan closes ranks - Keith's dishonest and persistent insistence in making a fool of himself makes him his own worst enemy.
You cannot abandon any shred of self respect in order to win arguments and not attract criticism.
His behaviour is a form of bullying and he's happy to call us all liars and muppets whenever the mood takes him
Whatever Teribus knows or doesn't know is immaterial - he refuses to qualify anything he claim so it's all a bit iffy - it is his serial abuse that has been a permanent feature of his postings and has now gone beyond the pale.
You accuse us of being a "team", but you lot stick together like shit to a blanket
You need to look at your own behaviour before you point fingers
Have a good inauguration
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: Raggytash
Date: 19 Jan 17 - 11:48 AM

Ake, like anyone else on this forum you have and are entitled to your own opinions. I am merely stating the things I observe. There was a time when Teribus' contributions were valid, even though I disagreed with some of them.

However in the past year or so he has become increasingly atagnonistic, vitriolic and in many, many cases downright nasty. (PS I know I'm no saint, but at least I am aware of that)

I can only presume this is due to a change of circumstances and I do hope he will recover from this and return to being a reasonable human being.

However I suspect I will be treated to a tirade of abuse.

Time alone will tell.

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: akenaton
Date: 19 Jan 17 - 11:05 AM

Raggytash,I think you are being unfair. Teribus has always been rather blunt, as we say up here "he disnae take any shite".

I don't correspond privately with Teribus other than seasonal greetings, but I'm pretty sure he, like myself, has become sickened by Steve Jim and a couple of others mobbing Keith and trying to intimidate him.
We should be able to converse here without all the insulting labels,

Teribus has called me an "eejit" many a time and when I think about it he's usually right    :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Jan 17 - 11:05 AM

"Well then Jom what term would YOU use to describe someone who says one thing in public about someone yet states the exact opposite in private?"
I now what I would describe someone who gets the wrong impression of someon at first then learns different as he goes along - capable of being educated by experience.+Every time you have ben given a kicking you have got more and more vitriolic.
Look at what's hapened to you in a few days - totally out of control
JIm Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: Raggytash
Date: 19 Jan 17 - 10:07 AM

That PM was sent in Nov 2015, at the time one particular posters was spouting nonsense and your posts displayed a greater knowledge which I acknowledged.

Since that time your posts have become increasingly vitriolic, aggressive, irrational and in many cases downright bloody nasty.

I don't know what has happened in your life in the past 14 months but whatever it is it has had a detrimental effect your both you and your posts.

Perhaps you should reflect on this.

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: Teribus
Date: 19 Jan 17 - 09:36 AM

Well then Jom what term would YOU use to describe someone who says one thing in public about someone yet states the exact opposite in private?

By the way what equipment did the British Government sell to Assad? You've been asked often enough to detail it along with substantive proof that anything was sold and delivered but so far over four years down the line you have been able to come up with S.F.A.

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Jan 17 - 04:05 AM

"As I said Raggy you are a hypocrite without one shred of honesty or integrity."
As I have said many times, you are a psychopathic coward who would never speak to people to their face the way you do from the safety of your anonymity.
Your behavior has become more and more manic of late, you haven't stopped throwing your toys out of your pram since you were presented with the facts about the Labour and Tory parties and have never really moved away from the time you proudly showed us your gun during one of our arguments (wasn't that when you were defending selling equipment to Assad?).
I sincerely hope they never ease the gun laws in Britain!
Give it a rest and start behaving like a rational human being.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: Teribus
Date: 19 Jan 17 - 02:58 AM

Raggytash - 18 Jan 17 - 12:59 PM

"Sadly for you it is true, you behave like a moron. Beligerent, bullying, blustering, an uneducated buffoon of the first order."

Care to explain this one then Raggy:

"Hi Teribus, Firstly I know this may be a bit of a shock to you, so apologises for that.

You are obviously interested in the subject and far more knowledgeable than some others on this forum." - From Raggytash addressed to Teribus requesting advice and information on a subject related to WWI

Raggy are you normally in the habit of seeking advice and information from - Beligerent, bullying, blustering, uneducated buffoons of the first order?

As I said Raggy you are a hypocrite without one shred of honesty or integrity.

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Jan 17 - 01:57 PM

"Ah but Raggy tell me which post came first"
THis one, if you want to play "he hit me first sir" "
"In that case Carroll learn to state what you actually mean."
My chosen name here is Jim Carroll - not Carroll and your arrogant suggestion that I need to "learn" anything is what started this of -, you put it up.
It is typical of the manner in which you address people
Is that how you've been brought up to address people?
You are the most unpleasantly arrogant individual on this forum and you have the least reason to be
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Jan 17 - 01:10 PM

My, you've led a very sheltered life.

I have indeed. Bus shelters, railway shelters, old air raid shelters. Wherever I could hide away for a smoke, can of beer or shag depending on what stage of puberty I was at.

Nowadays I know I used to enjoy them all but can't remember why...

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: Raggytash
Date: 18 Jan 17 - 12:59 PM

Sadly for you it is true, you behave like a moron. Beligerent, bullying, blustering, an uneducated buffoon of the first order.

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: Teribus
Date: 18 Jan 17 - 12:49 PM

Ah but Raggy tell me which post came first

Jim Carroll - 17 Jan 17 - 02:52 PM

"Don't be stupid - only a moron has to have the obvious spelled out."

Or

Teribus - 17 Jan 17 - 04:01 PM

"No Carroll only a moron states that somebody resigns from negotiations that have not yet started.

If Jim Carroll wants to throw names about he should fully expect the compliment to be returned - he certainly has no grounds for complaint. In that exchange Raggy strictly speaking no-one is calling anyone a moron, but it was you (gallantly rushing to defend Jim) who incorrectly stated that I initiated the exchange by calling Jim a moron. As I have proved quite conclusively above the first person to introduce the word "moron" was Jim Carroll.

Meanwhile you still remain a hypocrite totally lacking in honesty or integrity.

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: Raggytash
Date: 18 Jan 17 - 11:30 AM

"No Carroll, only a moron states thatsomeone has resigned from negotiations that have not yet started" Teribus 17th Jan 04.01pm

Will that do?

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Jan 17 - 11:03 AM

"What Teribus has said is not in the same category as the language used by Jim, Dave and Steve.."Racist, Fascist, Homophobe are analyses of what has been said - only Teribus deals in personal insulting to the extent he does
Yoi fit all those terms by dinbt of what you have said.
"The Trump nickname thread is still up and running"
You really aren't defending an open racist who consorts with gangsters and is probably being blackmailed by Russia over his sexual behavior, are you?
We're talking about personal insults aimed at other members, not satarising politicians - are you that desperate in your support for that slug that you suggest that this is not permissible?
You certainly don't respond to the facts put up about him
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: akenaton
Date: 18 Jan 17 - 11:02 AM

You didn't know there was a scale of insults Dave?   My, you've led a very sheltered life.