BS: Labour party discussion

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Aug 16 - 03:01 PM

" but by that time you'd probably find it hard to track down too many people who'd admit to having voted for it."
"Bregrets, I have a few"
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Aug 16 - 02:48 PM

The fact that Brexit hasn't kicked in yet (apart from informal stuff like more racist incidents) is no reason for downplaying the importance of the effects that are looming ahead a couple of years down the road.

The best hope is that we end up with a Norway type settlement, with minimal impact on free trade, and free movement, and the same level of payments into the EU, and so forth, but without a British wrecking squad in the places where things get worked out. Best of both worlds.   Of course the Brexit lot won't like that, but by that time you'd probably find it hard to track down too many people who'd admit to having voted for it.

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Aug 16 - 01:53 PM

"Dates of links are very important if you are trying to argue today that the predictions made in them have become realit"
As I said - not unless things have changed - if anything, the predictions have proved correct so far
"alarmist claptrap."
Again - only if you can think of a reason why Britain should have its cake and eat it
Brexit was sold on the basis of our being allowed to close our borders to foreigners
Foreigners are sure to coninue to allow us free access across their borders
- sure they are!!!
There is no reason whatever why European countries should open its borders to outsiders - Britain is no longer part of the setup
Brexit was nodded through with total disregard of what economists were warning - any sacrifice was worth getting rid of Johnny Foreigner.
Our new foreign secretary has all the diplomatic skills to pull that one off!!!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: Teribus
Date: 16 Aug 16 - 01:33 PM

"Dates odf links are unimportant unless something has radically changed - nothing has."

Dates of links are very important if you are trying to argue today that the predictions made in them have become reality. Evidence of the direst predictions show that none of them have.

"Juts as free movement across borders came with membership - all gone, no more tomorrow."

Oh doom and woe, the world probably will end before the end of the month - "no more tomorrow" INDEED - alarmist claptrap.

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: Greg F.
Date: 16 Aug 16 - 01:31 PM

Bang on, Stu - and here in the U.S. as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: Stu
Date: 16 Aug 16 - 01:27 PM

Going back to the Labour party, one of the major let downs during the campaign was their lack of cohesive arguments against. The fight against the wilful ignorance of the right appears to have been abandoned utterly, with Labour also resorting to the sort of worthless waffle that the likes of Farage and Johnson get away with constantly. This is due in part to the continuing dumbing down of society (aided and abetted by the media) that sees the promotion of the "we've had enough of experts" idiocy that is propagated buy creationists, climate deniers and a whole host of other movements that reject empirical evidence, but this should be thundered against as it seeps into all parts of society.

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: Teribus
Date: 16 Aug 16 - 01:22 PM

"One of the voting points of Brexit was to restrict the free movement of people from the EU, that was a major part of the campaign. This doesn't discriminate between people based on their professions and applies to all folk crossing our borders."

Tell me Stu, if you wished to go to Canada, the USA or Australia - are you free to do so? Yes you are, all of these countries will let you enter without any great difficulty on the basis that you and your skillset will bring something to the party. Australia has operated on this basis for decades. They all restrict entry to their countries and yet all have seemed to have survived, even their Universities.

As it stands at the moment it is the EU that dictates who enters our country, by leaving the EU that changes and it is then up to the British Government to decide who enters and who does not - so your "This doesn't discriminate between people" is about as wrong as you could get it.

Wow which University in the UK has 1000 staff all from the EU? Any of them upped-sticks and left since the 24th June?

By the way the answer to the question about being involved in any science projects? No thankfully I am retired, how many are you involved in DMcG? Am I allowed to hold an opinion on a load of alarmist claptrap spouted by people who deliberately lied and attempted to completely mislead the British people during the run up to the EU Referendum? Damn right I am.

What Stu is describing does not equate to the end of the world - not by a long shot.

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Aug 16 - 12:46 PM

Nice to know I'm not the only one he tries to talk down to - must be a cultural implant
Dates odf links are unimportant unless something has radically changed - nothing has.
The dominoes are still falling (interest rates last week) - all that can be hoped for is they stop falling.
"The EU facilitated science without borders,"
Juts as free movement across borders came with membership - all gone, no more tomorrow.
There is no reason why a privilege that went with membership should be extended to non-member competitors.
One of the unknowns being debated here is whether we will have to pass through re-established checkpoints to travel from the South to the Six Counties.
This all seems to be a classic case of having your cake and eating it
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: Stu
Date: 16 Aug 16 - 12:45 PM

"Hell as like, alarmist claptrap, we'll see as and when it happens."

Hold on a mo. One of the voting points of Brexit was to restrict the free movement of people from the EU, that was a major part of the campaign. This doesn't discriminate between people based on their professions and applies to all folk crossing our borders. In the case of scientists this means they don't come to our institutions to work, and we don't go to theirs. This restricts access to overseas research groups and the wider network that make up the research community.

Scientists don't want these restrictions as it gets in the way of the science, plain and simple. Without EU grants the science suffers (UK Science was a net beneficiary of EU funding), plain and simple. ANYTHING that restricts this flow is a barrier to research and innovation, plain and simple.

It is happening now, as we discuss the matter here, we have 1,000 staff and 2,000 students from the EU, and these people move freely and without restriction. For future staff, students and research partners there will be issues with visas and funding and therefore collaboration, the very essence of effective research. This uncertainty has already meant a change in the process of long-term funding applications and collaborations for UK scientists as others in the EU cannot include them for fear of rejection due to the uncertainty about how the government will deal with this.

Paint me a liar if you wish Terbius but at least be man enough to come out and say so; personal incredulity doesn't count as informed opinion.

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: Greg F.
Date: 16 Aug 16 - 12:06 PM

Are you personally involved in science projects as well, Teribus?

"We'll See" = translation: "No. I was just blowing smoke up your a**."

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: Teribus
Date: 16 Aug 16 - 11:32 AM

We'll see.

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: DMcG
Date: 16 Aug 16 - 11:15 AM

Stu said "my own university..." so is saying "as and when it happens" is already happening in his case. Are you personally involved in science projects as well, Teribus?

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: Teribus
Date: 16 Aug 16 - 10:48 AM

"Brexit has endangered that free movement of people and information"

Hell as like, alarmist claptrap, we'll see as and when it happens.

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: Stu
Date: 16 Aug 16 - 10:38 AM

"Yes Stu science is truly international - unfortunately the EU is not it is extremely Eurocentric and protectionist."

You're not getting this are you? The EU facilitated science without borders, which is how science should be practiced, and how we're lucky enough in the UK to have been practicing. Our research institutions are integrated via individual scientists, funding bodies and publication at a fundamental level, and it works (or worked) brilliantly.

Politics aside, Brexit has endangered that free movement of people and information and already UK science (and science as a whole as a consequence) is experiencing the effect of that right now. As we speak.

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: Teribus
Date: 16 Aug 16 - 10:14 AM

"Maybe it as well to point out that "BNP" in this context doesn't mean British National Party but Bank Nationale de Paris."

I suppose that there might be some people who are ignorant enough to require that clarification Kevin but I would have thought that the "Paribas" tacked onto the BNP might have just given the game away. Perhaps you fear the almost Pavlovian effect of the initials BNP cause left-wing attack dogs to cease reading and commence mouth frothing. Best not let them in on the secret that BNP Paribas is a Multinational Bank Kevin or else more mouth frothing would result.

Also find it rather strange that one poster can post biased and out of date predictions without comment from you Stu, whereas I have provided two links that are not only up to date but simple statements of what was predicted matched against what has actually happened. Most of the "doom'n'gloom" predictions of the "Remain" Campaign have been proved false.

Of course I realise that there is more than one project involved Stu, but could you tell me why you didn't see fit to answer the question? Are the European participants going to walk away from it because the UK has voted to leave the EU? - Don't worry Stu, no need for you to seem to break ranks it is a rhetorical question - you know damn well that they will not - it will go ahead already a done deal.

EU funding the only source of funding for British scientists Stu? Did the UK formerly contribute to those EU funds (The UK is when all said and done the EU's second largest contributor) and are we still contributing towards them? Present indications are that Article 50 will not be triggered until 2019 which puts our earliest departure from the EU some time in 2022. If we are putting money into that pot then we have a say in what happens to it.

"Science is truly international, and the integration of UK science with our EU partners had become seamless and very productive, driving the sort of innovation the UK will need to stay competitive in the global marketplace."

Yes Stu science is truly international - unfortunately the EU is not it is extremely Eurocentric and protectionist.

The UK has always been extremely good at innovation getting out of the EU makes it easier to collaborate with the rest of the world.

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: Stu
Date: 16 Aug 16 - 08:56 AM

"So Europe will turn its back on projects like the Hyshot III scramjet engine Stu?"

There is more than one project involved here, you do realise that?

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Aug 16 - 08:27 AM

"Maybe it as well to point out that "BNP" in this context doesn't mean British National Party but Bank Nationale de Paris."
Thanks Mac - meant to do that.
As Stu said, the consequences go far beyond city finance, and the social consequences are so far incalcuable, especially in terms of racial relations.
The old "uncontrolled emigration" myth is a good-old standby.
All immigration is controlled other than illehgal immigration, which will not be affected one way or the other anyway - unles Ms Mayfly jups in her van again and travels the streets telling those who shouldn't be in Britain to go home - a measure of the mentality of these people
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: Teribus
Date: 16 Aug 16 - 07:44 AM

So Europe will turn its back on projects like the Hyshot III scramjet engine Stu?

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Aug 16 - 07:06 AM

Maybe it as well to point out that "BNP" in this context doesn't mean British National Party but Bank Nationale de Paris.
..............

The collapse of Labour in Scotland is nothing whatsoever to do with any kind of failure by Corbyn. It reflects the failure of a rightwing party at "national" level (meaning Westminster, which isn't "national" in Scotland) and a rigid bureaucratic organisation at local level, together with a rise in national awareness. It's not going to be reversed.

To form a government Labour is going to have to ally with the SNP, and use the opportunity to reform the voting system to counter the imbalance that would be likely to mean a permanent Tory majority based on a minority vote if/when Scotland opts for independence.
........
Opinion polls do indeed indicate scepticism about Jeremy Corbyn becoming Prime Minister - reflecting the storm of hostile comments in the whole range of media. But they do not indicate the same disagreements with the policies he stands for, from bringing railways back into public transport to scrapping Trident. The task of the Labour Party is going to be to find ways of making it possible for people to have a chance to vote for candidates who support these policies.

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: Stu
Date: 16 Aug 16 - 06:41 AM

Terbius is concentrating on economics, and there's more to the economy than the predictions of city institutions. Brexit has already proved a real issue in science as scientists in the UK find themselves left off grant applications for EU funding and therefor out of very important collaborations. Science is truly international, and the integration of UK science with our EU partners had become seamless and very productive, driving the sort of innovation the UK will need to stay competitive in the global marketplace.

My own university is already trying to mitigate the effects of Brexit on it's research groups, but many long-term projects are already off the table as including UK scientists will mean their grant applications could well fail because of long-term uncertainty regarding how collaboration will work.

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Aug 16 - 05:27 AM

Daliy mail and telegraph opinions - try the Financial Times
Announced this morning -
Corbyn has won support of 85% of the constituancy parties
His lead has doubled since his election
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: Teribus
Date: 16 Aug 16 - 04:25 AM

As previously stated Labour Party Members, associate members, etc, will not and cannot get Labour elected into office - for that you need "Labour Voters" and as long as Corbyn is leader of the Labour Party that will never happen. Labour has completely lost it's base in Scotland to the SNP and the Conservative Party are now the largest "opposition" Party. Labour have lost touch with their "traditional" Labour voters, it was they who swung the vote in the EU Referendum and secured the Leave result

While some may pour scorn on Tony Blair as far as winning elections goes, he, without doubt has been the best performing Labour leader EVER. And I dare say that many who pour scorn on him now actually voted to get his Labour Governments elected three times.

The HORSE'S MOUTH link is typical of the person who supplied it - A BNP Paribas release {Hardly impartial} from 1st July 2016 {Weeks out of date}.

Try these they are a bit more up to date:

How Many Predictions Came True


How did the experts get it so wrong

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Aug 16 - 03:48 AM

Isn't it about time people looked at the 'entryism' claim in factual detail?
'Trotskyist' Militant, now 'Socialist Appeal' can heve no more than a couple of thousand members -
The left part which has had the largest membership in Britain since the middle of the twentieth century was The Communist Party, with 32,000 members at its peak, the majority of the card-carrying only otherwise inactive.
The number of people who are going to be deprived of a vote, thank's to this latest legal technicality being used against Corbyn has been stated to be 100,000
The Trotskyist 'entryists', given their present numbers, don't have enough members to 'Enter' a queue at the local fish and chip shop.
New Labour is the product of a right wing coup which took place in the Labour Party in 1996, led by righitist, Tony Blair (potentially a war criminal who dishonestly committed Britain to an illegal war that is still going on) and Alastair Campbell. a soft-porn journalist who published for a 'Penthouse' magazine spin-off, who was unelected and was co-opted as a publicity guru; they were supported by the dreadful Gordon Brown and the equally dreadful Peter Mandelson.
The theoretical base of New Labour was, Anthony Crosslnd's revisionist socalism theory, which abandoned all the 'social' aspects of real socialism and split the Labour Party off from its original creators, The Trades Union Movement.   
After appalling performances in Government, genuine socialist members of the Labour Party began to leave in their thousands and those voters who had regarded the party as an alternative to Conservatism rather than the 'Soft Thatcherist' party it had become, stopped voting for them - or anybody.
The present right wing aspirants to leadership are Blair's detrius worms.
The advent of Corbyn inspired thouands to reejoin Labour in the hope of a return to a real alternative - they are 're-entryists' - not a media created Trotskyist plot.
As Mac suggested, Mudcat members supporting decent left policies would be describes as 'entryists' if we caught their notice.
The idea that Brexit hasn't brought about a disaster is not worthy of comment, and giving the opportunistic Remain mob as proof that it has is risible - go look at the actual direction the economy has taken in the short time since the decision to leave was confirmed - see what the economists are saying - at present, disastrous, in the long term, uncertain - and we all know, business abhors uncertainty just as nature abhors a vacuum
HORSE'S MOUTH
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: Teribus
Date: 16 Aug 16 - 01:46 AM

I was unaware that I had ever stated that Corbyn was a member of Militant Tendency, here's what I said just to clarify:

"Corbyn was a supporter of Militant Tendency when they attempted to infiltrate the Labour Party"

Looking up the term "entryist" it seems to date back to those times. And back then you had the same bullying, intimidation and corruption at CLP level that we have seen just recently. So we are seeing history repeating itself, doesn't matter a jot whether or not it is from without or within. If it is indeed the latter all that means is that the clear out last time wasn't thorough enough.

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: DMcG
Date: 16 Aug 16 - 12:43 AM

"Inventing unpleasant attributes"


Can I add "Corbynista" to that? I have met very few people who support Corbyn as such. They do, however, support the principles he espouses, and believe that he is exceptionally good at explaining them in a mature way, providing youare prepared to listen as maturely, rather than rely on 10 second sound bites. By adopting that term it suggests a level of unreasoning hero worship in a smallish but passionately committed group. That is a distortion of what I see, but it happens to be a distortion that both Tories and Blairites are happy to encourage.

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Aug 16 - 07:05 PM

Cheers, Kevin. A littl accuracy never comes amiss.

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Aug 16 - 05:56 PM

Corbyn was opposed to the purge of people associated with Militant. He was never himself a member of Militant.

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Aug 16 - 05:55 PM

That's a pretty poor do from our resident self-appointed history expert if I may say so, Teribus. Not only are you completely neglecting the long evolution of left-wing factions within (yes, WITHIN) the Labour Party, you are also parroting out the usual right-wing sloganising nonsense about infiltration and entryism. Don't think that just because everyone is trying to keep the thread nice that you can perpetrate the usual Tory bullshit with impunity.

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: Teribus
Date: 15 Aug 16 - 03:56 PM

Back in the day Corbyn was a supporter of Militant Tendency when they attempted to infiltrate the Labour Party. Today Corbyn welcomes similar entryists in the form of Corbyn activists in Momentum.

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Aug 16 - 03:32 PM

My point is, everyone has views on political issues which they bring with them, which they share with some people in the party, and not with others. Having views on political issues is why people join parties.

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Aug 16 - 03:28 PM

So if a Quaker joins the Labour party with the hope of encouraging it to resist pressures to wage war, that's rightly to be denounced as entryism? How about a feminist committed to opposing sexism? Or is it just if you're a socialist?

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: Stu
Date: 15 Aug 16 - 02:09 PM

"Fact is that that "narrow Brexit victory has" resulted in very little change."

Certainly has made a difference in science.

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Aug 16 - 01:18 PM

A genuine reason for joining a party is that you can see the potential to make it a better organisation for fighting for fairness for working people, the sick, the disabled, ethnic minorities, children, the elderly and those unable to find work. In other words, to change the party. You don't just join a party because you think everything is just hunkydory the way it is. Entryism is is an invention of the right in order to demonise the Labour Party. Since time immemorial people have at various times joined (or at least supported) the Tories in droves out of sheer self-interest. Wanna call that entryism too? The right are very good at inventing unpleasant attributes to ascribe to their adversaries, a bit like "human shields" when you're invading another country. Entryism is one such.

And thank you Stu for complaining that "they've all turned up" before I turned up. Nice to know that I'm not among your persona non grata! 😉

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: Teribus
Date: 15 Aug 16 - 01:08 PM

"The narrow Brexit victory has already proved an economic and political disaster"

Well not according to the examination of the Remain Campaign's predictions of "doom'n'gloom" in todays press. Fact is that that "narrow Brexit victory has" resulted in very little change. All it proved was that the Labour Party as Her Majesty's Opposition lacked any real leadership at all and that when history looks back at this highly significant time of change for both the United Kingdom and Europe it will record the fact that instead of overseeing the change and pushing the Government of the day - Labour was locked in a highly divisive and bitter internal argument over leadership of their Party.

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: Teribus
Date: 15 Aug 16 - 11:22 AM

"Britain exited from the E.U. purely on the basis of a racist campaign - stop immigration and block the refugees - Ukip based its entire campaign on those slogans, and the rest of them followed suit to one degree or another"

Our open doors policy on immigration introduced by Labour under Blair was a mistake that even they latterly admitted was wrong.

The one constant reference to immigration throughout the EU Referendum from those campaigning for the UK's exit from the EU is better summed up as - "Stop uncontrolled immigration" and regain control as to who is granted admission to our country.

UKIP neither directed or ran the Leave part of the Brexit Campaign.

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Aug 16 - 11:19 AM

According to Wiki,
"Entryism (also referred to as entrism or enterism, or as infiltration) is a political strategy in which an organisation or state encourages its members or supporters to join another, usually larger, organisation in an attempt to expand influence and expand their ideas and program. In situations where the organization being "entered" is hostile to entrism, the entrists may engage in a degree of subterfuge to hide the fact that they are an organisation in their own right."

Just joining for genuine reasons does not make someone an entryist.

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Aug 16 - 11:09 AM

I wouldn't be surprised if being a regular at the Mudcat might count as belonging to a proscribed organisation...

How do you join a politocal party without being an entryist?

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Aug 16 - 08:54 AM

I am a recently joined member of the labour party, I am not a trostkyite, or a member of any other organisation.
IMO WATSON IS REMINSCENT OF BILLY BUNTER AND PAT RABBITE, one always waiting for the next postal order and the other a careerist andself serving fat cat

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: Raggytash
Date: 15 Aug 16 - 07:25 AM

"Since the thread about 'Whither the Labour Party" has drifted far from home and turned into a rather unpleasant series of skirmishes about matters of peripheral relevance, I thought I'd start up one where we could talk about the current hurly burly. Preferably without getting into slanging matches. But that might be too much to ask. Coherent and even-tempered slanging matches, at least?"

Could I remind people that this was the OP from McGrath.

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Aug 16 - 06:53 AM

"The other thread is still there for being hyperactive."
Nah - been immmunised
"You've dominated one thread with your constant bickering"#And nor you are attempting to dominate it with yours
I'e just resolved to rid myself of three pests - pease don't become one of them while we might have something to say to each other
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Aug 16 - 06:48 AM

"I don't wish to re-cover ground already somewhat unpleasantly covered"

An excellent maxim, Jim. It would make for a much more useful discussion if we all stuck to it. The other thread is still there for being hyperactive.

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: Stu
Date: 15 Aug 16 - 06:40 AM

"The Labour Party seems to have weathered a rather vicious attempt to label it antisemititic"

Again? There's more the Labour movement than this. You've dominated one thread with your constant bickering over this subject, now you're going to wreck this one too.

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Aug 16 - 06:18 AM

"Yeah, whatever. Another thread wrecked. Off you all go now."
We could wreck it equally quickly by arguing with each other Stu - waddya think
Please give it a rest and let's get on with the discussion.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: Stu
Date: 15 Aug 16 - 05:03 AM

"Even you Stu"

Yeah, whatever. Another thread wrecked. Off you all go now.

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Aug 16 - 04:35 AM

"Ah well, they've all turned up."
Even you Stu
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: DMcG
Date: 15 Aug 16 - 04:12 AM

"How many people have first hand knowledge of Jeremy Corbyn?"

The same question could of course be asked or Cameron, or May, or Gove or any other politician. But what is certainly the case is that Corbyn has spoken at more open rallies with 1000+ attendances than any politicians I have known. I have spoken personally to him, but only for about three minutes. Even so, that is 100% more than any other potential prime minister I have been asked to support.

As to how I form my opinions, it is based on his track record. Many commentators see a history of rebellion against the party leader. It is as easy to see it as a solid adherence to a set of principles. Now, whether that is realistic or idealistic is a matter of judgement on our part.

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Aug 16 - 03:30 AM

The Labour Party seems to have weathered a rather vicious attempt to label it antisemititic, probably instigated by the right-wing Israeli regime

Probably not!
That is a ludicrous conspiracy theory. Israel has other preoccupations than our Labour Party!
All the accusations came from lifelong Labour people, like Sadiq Khan, not Mossad agents.

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: Stu
Date: 15 Aug 16 - 03:05 AM

Ah well, they've all turned up. Another thread down the pan.

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: akenaton
Date: 15 Aug 16 - 02:56 AM

The trouble is Mr McGrath, that we very often have conflicting interests.

Subject: RE: BS: Labour party discussion
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Aug 16 - 02:40 AM

I don't wish to re-cover ground already somewhat unpleasantly covered, but, as I see it, Britain finds itself in danger of falling in line with the distinct move to the right that is taking place in the world today.
Britain exited from the E.U. purely on the basis of a racist campaign - stop immigration and block the refugees - Ukip based its entire campaign on those slogans, and the rest of them followed suit to one degree or another
The narrow Brexit victory has already proved an economic and political disaster, a forced reshuffle of our government, replacing it with one that has appointed a racist into the position of Foreign Secretary - a disturbing shift to the right.
The predicted economic consequences of Brexit have already appeared and, it is reckoned, it will be at least ten years before the economy can possibly re-stabilise.
Extremist right-wing groups in Europe have taken the cue from Britain and are attempting to stage similar exits - no doubt, with similar consequences to national economies - the Right in Europe are on the march again, once more using racism as a basis for exit - our nearest neighbour, France stands to have one of the Le Pen in charge in the near future and AUSTRIA narrowly avoided electing a Neo Nazi.
EUROPEAN RIGHT
Further afield, the U.S. is now facing the possibility of a blunedring, loud-mouthed moronic right-winger who makes George W. look like Mahatma Ghandi, into the White House
Not a comfortable world to hand on to our kids.
The Labour Party seems to have weathered a rather vicious attempt to label it antisemititic, probably instigated by the right-wing Israeli regime attempting to off-set the boycott of its goods in protest of its war crimes in Gaza.
The party now faces a leadership contest between a relatively inexperienced, but, it appears, principled socialist and a candidate supported by the New Labour followers of the possible war criminal,Tony Blair - he who plunged us into the Oil Wars.   
It seems to me that we need a bit of real opposition to what's happening based on principle and compassion rather than political Parliamentary gain.
"Jom what street has been closed?"
Not while the adults are talking if you don't mind Teribus.
I have no intentions of re-opening a quadralogue with our three resident rights here - especially the bullying ones, incapable of shedding the open aggression
I won't be responding to you or your two extremist mates.
Jim Carroll