Lyr Req: song about world war 1

Subject: Lyr Add: POOR OLD SOLDIER (Steeleye Span)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Oct 16 - 01:23 PM

It isn't Poor Old Soldier, recorded by Steeleye Span is it?

Oh, you poor old soldier, what will you become
When there's no one left marchin' to the beat of your drum?
You fought all the battles and survived every one.
Old soldier, march on, march on.

Will you join all the wounded old soldiers like you
And reflect on the glory like old soldiers do?
But will you tell of your comrades as they tell of you?
Old soldier, march on, march on.

Will you relive each battle with toy tin soldiers
So that those who were lost can survive?
Will you still see those eyes under dark smokey skies--
All your comrades who kept you alive?

Oh, you poor old soldier, what will you become
When there's no one left marching to the beat of your drum?
Will the band still be playing as you lay down your gun?
Old soldier, march on, march on.
Old soldier, march on, march on.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song about world war 1
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Oct 16 - 01:19 PM

So have you any more of the chorus?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song about world war 1
From: Hrothgar
Date: 06 Oct 16 - 07:44 AM

I have heard this song, and I can remember singing the chorus - but I'm blessed if I can place it.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song about world war 1
From: Teribus
Date: 05 Oct 16 - 04:55 PM

Don't think drums and marching up and down a street featured much as part of any Guerrilla war Kevin.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song about world war 1
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Oct 16 - 01:35 PM

Of course it might depend what he was singing. The Soldier's Song would have gone down pretty well in a lot of places.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song about world war 1
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Oct 16 - 02:06 PM

Might be just about any war - the drum makes it sound earlier than the Great War. By that time drums were more a matter of parades. In earlier times they were commonly used in battles.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song about world war 1
From: Teribus
Date: 04 Oct 16 - 12:12 PM

Agreed MGOH, I do not think this is Irish or post-First World War, an old soldier marching through any village, town or city in Ireland beating a drum and singing would not have lasted five seconds, there was a "War of Independence" being fought, immediately followed by an extremely bitter "Civil War" in the South. Sounds more like American and post THEIR "Civil War".

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song about world war 1
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Oct 16 - 08:56 PM

The link is too long to fit in the clicky tool

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/A_treasury_of_war_poetry,_British_and_American_poems_of_the_world_war,_1914-1919/Incidents_and_Aspects

Try that

---

Subject: Lyr Req: song about world war 1 From: GUEST,Sueellen - PM Date: 30 Sep 16 - 04:25 PM

Searching for a great Irish song about an old soldier after world war one-The Great War-still marching through the town playing a drum and singing for the children-who follow him-I can't remember the title or the lyrics-I think part of the chorus was "play us a tune/song that you played in the war" Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thankyou.

Please try to keep in mind this is a music thread -Mod

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song about world war 1
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Oct 16 - 07:34 PM

That link didn't work - led to a Wikisource message saying there isn't a page with that precise name, and offering various alternatives.

I hadn't come across that one before. Interesting, but the stories a long way from the song requested. I really wish the OP Sueellen would pop up and give a little more pointers.

Subject: Lyr Add: THE TOY BAND (Henry Newbolt)
From: cnd
Date: 03 Oct 16 - 03:42 PM

I found this poem that could be close:


THE TOY BAND
A Song of the Great Retreat
By Henry Newbolt

DREARY lay the long road, dreary lay the town,
    Lights out and never a glint o' moon:
Weary lay the stragglers, half a thousand down,
    Sad sighed the weary big Dragoon:
"Oh! if I'd a drum here to make them take the road again,
    Oh! if I'd a fife to wheedle, Come, boys, come!
You that mean to fight it out, wake and take your load again,
    Fall in! Fall in! Follow the fife and drum!

"Hey, but here's a toy shop, here's a drum for me,
    Penny whistles too to play the tune!
Half a thousand dead men soon shall hear and see
    We're a band!" said the weary big Dragoon.
"Rubadub! Rubadub! Wake and take the road again,
    Wheedle-deedle-deedle-dee, Come, boys, come!
You that mean to fight it out, wake and take your load again,
    Fall in! Fall in! Follow the fife and drum!"

Cheerly goes the dark road, cheerly goes the night,
    Cheerly goes the blood to keep the beat:
Half a thousand dead men marching on to fight
    With a little penny drum to lift their feet.
Rubadub! Rubadub! Wake and take the road again,
    Wheedle-deedle-deedle-dee, Come, boys, come!
You that mean to fight it out, wake and take your load again,
    Fall in! Fall in! Follow the fife and drum!

As long as there's an Englishman to ask a tale of me,
    As long as I can tell the tale aright,
We'll not forget the penny whistle's wheedle-deedle-dee
    And the big Dragoon a-beating down the night,
Rubadub! Rubadub! Wake and take the road again,
    Wheedle-deedle-deedle-dee, Come, boys, come!
You that mean to fight it out, wake and take your load again,
    Fall in! Fall in! Follow the fife and drum!


https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/A_treasury_of_war_poetry,_British_and_American_poems_of_the_world_war,_1914-1919/Incidents_and_As

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song about world war 1
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Oct 16 - 03:05 PM

There were those who fought in the British Army during the war and later fought for independence. Onne well known example was Tom Barry, who commanded the 3rd (West) Cork brigade, and wrote "Guerrilla Days in Ireland".

That song you gave us Teribus is a good one. Who wrote it and who sings it?

But couldn't we get back to this other song, which very likely isn't Irish anyway?

Subject: Lyr Add: THE DUBLIN FUSILIERS (Johnny McEvoy)
From: Teribus
Date: 03 Oct 16 - 02:40 PM

These them Murpholly:

When I was young and in my prime I thought I'd take a chance,
Join with my companions and fight the war in France,
John Redmond says when peace has come, Old Ireland will be free
When you return brave heroes from the war with Germany
And in my dreams I see them still come marching down the years
The boys that stood beside me in the Dublin fusiliers
 
There was Johnny Roach from Dolphins Barn and Micko from ringsend,
And Willy Doyle from Dalky town none better as a friend
We marched together through the mud the likes you never seen
And as we passed we sang a song ''The Wearing Of The Green''
And in my dreams I see them still come marching down the hill
The boys that stood beside me in the Dublin fusiliers
 
Poor Micko fell at messin ridge while trying to take the hill
A German bullet brought him down, his body cold and still
And Johnny Roach and Willie Doyle though they were never found
Like thousands they still lie today beneath the battle ground
And in my dreams I see them still, come marching down the hill,
The boys that stood beside me in the Dublin fusiliers
 
Now I no more not wanted here stranger in my home
I sit alone in my backyard and watch the sun go down
But medals are no good to you when you are old and grey
And the taste of gas upon your lips will never go away
And in my dreams I see them still, come marching down the hill
The boys that stood beside me in the Dublin fusiliers"

Nothing there about an old man, children and a drum.

Nothing there about being dismissive of military leadership.

Redmond urged the 92.75% of the Irish Volunteers who followed him to enlist and fight against Germany. While Pearse, Connolly & crew of five others colluded in secret with and allied themselves to fight as German allies. That Murpholly was done in 1914. The only date that you can pin on this song is three years later 1917 with the battle on Messines Ridge which oddly enough Murpholly was an outstanding Allied victory in which both the Irish 16th and Ulster 36th Divisions took part (Together they captured Wytschaete - imagine that Murpholly just over one year after the fiasco in Dublin in 1916 the UVF and the IVF fighting side by side in Flanders and defeating what was regarded as being the best and most professional army in the world).

This bit from the notes about the song {Whoever wrote them knew S.F.A. about what he was saying}

"Written by Johnny McEvoy, a fine anti war song about an Irish battalion of the British army, with the British promising home rule for Ireland after the great war many Irish signed up to fight for the British army, they were betrayed again."

The British did promise Home Rule, the Bill was passed into law on the 18th September 1914. In 1920 Home rule was offered, in Ulster it was accepted and acted upon in the South it was rejected and they fought a War - the fact that the British did not renege on their promise meant that when the Peace treaty relating to this "War of Independence" was signed the new Parliament in Ulster had a voice and that Murpholly is why you have the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland as part of the United Kingdom today. Had Pearse, Connolly et all stayed at home and left it to John Redmond a united and independent Ireland would have come into existence under the Statute of Westminster in 1931 - talk about snatching defeat from the jaws of victory - no better example could be found.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song about world war 1
From: Murpholly
Date: 03 Oct 16 - 01:53 PM

Try the Dublin Fusiliers written by Johnny McEvoy about how Redmond promised home rule if they would fight in France. Words available if wanted.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song about world war 1
From: Snuffy
Date: 03 Oct 16 - 01:41 PM


Right in the Main Street

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song about world war 1
From: Jack Campin
Date: 03 Oct 16 - 12:16 PM

"Gorizia tu sei maledetta" - "Gorizia You Are Cursed" little wonder or amazement at that Jack which of the eleven battles that were fought there were you referring to?

Justfuckingoogleit. I gave enough information in my other posts here.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song about world war 1
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan
Date: 03 Oct 16 - 10:52 AM

Aaaaaaaargh! What has 2008 got to do with anything?

Regards

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song about world war 1
From: Jack Campin
Date: 03 Oct 16 - 08:04 AM

The songs of the period, Irish, English, Scottish, Welsh, Canadian, USian, French, German, Turkish, Italian..., written at the time, tend to be as cutting and dismissive of the military leadership as those written much later.
Good heavens, any examples that go beyond typical military "black humour" coupled with their inherent ability to laugh at themselves and at any situation and under any circumstances they found themselves in.

"Gorizia tu sei maledetta" (which I posted about in a recent thread on the Battle of Gorizia) goes a very long way beyond that.


Not quite true. I bought Christmas trees for years at the War Memorial Hall in Rathfarnham, Dublin
May 2008. No veterans were left by then.

The memorial hall predates 2008 by a rather long time. As you could easily have found out:

World War I Memorials in Ireland

There really aren't any excuses for being that fucking pig-ignorant these days.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song about world war 1
From: GUEST,In good company
Date: 03 Oct 16 - 05:27 AM

So it is of the period and dismissive of the leadership? I am not sure if I fully understand the point about it being 'black humour' and why that is differently dismissive but, as you say, this is not the thread.

I will start the thread you suggest if you like but I suspect that it would soon degenerate into the type of circular argument that keeps me above the line nowadays. I shall post the examples you give as a starter and maybe the second post could be why you feel these are not suitable?

Thanks anyway.

Dave

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song about world war 1
From: Teribus
Date: 03 Oct 16 - 05:18 AM

Hello Gnome

"Hanging on the old barbed wire" (British Army) - typical example of Forces "Black Humour", same as "An Airman Lay Dying" (Royal Flying Corps), also "Sweeping" (Royal Navy).

Still waiting for the new thread with examples of songs "of the period" from "Irish, English, Scottish, Welsh, Canadian, USian, French, German, Turkish, Italian..., written at the time" dismissive of the military leadership from our "whack-a-mole" GUEST Troll - my bet? There will be no new thread, there will be no examples given and a different "whack-a-mole" GUEST Troll will post more unsubstantiated garbage.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song about world war 1
From: GUEST,In good company
Date: 03 Oct 16 - 04:42 AM

Without wishing to detract from the thread I would make just one reply to the question above about any examples of WW1 songs being dismissive of leadership. I believe 'Hanging on the old barbed wire' is both of that time and pretty dismissive of the leadership. But I could be wrong and would be interested to learn if I am.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song about world war 1
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Oct 16 - 03:58 AM

The songs of the period, Irish, English, Scottish, Welsh, Canadian,

The poetry of the period overwhelmingly did not.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song about world war 1
From: Teribus
Date: 03 Oct 16 - 03:46 AM

"The songs of the period, Irish, English, Scottish, Welsh, Canadian, USian, French, German, Turkish, Italian..., written at the time, tend to be as cutting and dismissive of the military leadership as those written much later."

Good heavens, any examples that go beyond typical military "black humour" coupled with their inherent ability to laugh at themselves and at any situation and under any circumstances they found themselves in.

As to those who wrote such songs much later - hindsight is bloody marvellous isn't it - but given the tools of the day nobody could have done any better as evidenced by comparison of military casualty rates for the First and Second World Wars (For the British, Commonwealth & Empire troops 9 out of 10 survived in both cases. German, French, Austro-Hungarian, Russian and Italian losses were much higher so if the British were badly led then the others must have really badly led but at the end of it all the victory celebrations took place in London and in Paris, NOT Berlin and Vienna). The Germans in the First World War introduced the indiscriminate bombing of civilian centres of population that was further developed in the Second World War, yet the blockade of Germany by the Royal Navy in the First World War killed more German civilians than the RAF and USAAF strategic bombing campaign did in the Second.

Anybody wishing to reopen a thread or create a thread to discuss any of this feel free to do so, but somehow I don't think anybody will.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song about world war 1
From: GUEST,Well led bloke in Kitchener mask
Date: 03 Oct 16 - 03:02 AM

The Irish connection is interesting. Whilst it wasn't common to build a war memorial where the maypole used to be, as per many UK towns and villages, the many Irish who joined up at the early period and fell do tend to have plaques in churches, town halls etc.

Towards the end of the "Great War" Ireland had more pressing issues at home to deal with.

The songs of the period, Irish, English, Scottish, Welsh, Canadian, USian, French, German, Turkish, Italian..., written at the time, tend to be as cutting and dismissive of the military leadership as those written much later. It's important to ensure revisionists aren't allowed to wallow in their perverse worship of military blunder.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song about world war 1
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Oct 16 - 09:16 PM

Since you don't have a Roman capital for it on the keyboard you have to use a capital i (I), and I think that seems odd to a lot of people, so they use 1. The same confusion happens with the numbers in the titles of movie sequels - is it Rambo II or Rambo 2 ?

You've clearly met different people from me and read different books, Teribus. Basically I agree you are correct - except that I'd call the war "Napoleonic" at least from the date he became First Consul and maybe a bit earlier. But I think common usage is to talk about the whole period as one conflict, and label it Napoleonic. And I suspect that, equally innacurately, the two world wars will probably be referred as one, maybe "the Second Thirty Years War"
............
No trace of the requested song yet. Maybe if Sueellen could give a bit more information, such as where she came across it, that might trigger a memory. Could it be a Harvey Andrews song?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song about world war 1
From: Helen
Date: 02 Oct 16 - 02:30 PM

Joe,

In Australia, it used to be written as World War I, and World War II. It's probably more common now, with the lamentable drop in standards of spelling, punctuation, apostrophitis, (according to the opinion of an ex-English teacher, LOL) and also the dramatic reduction in Latin studies, that it is just as common to see the numbers 1 and 2, as it is to see the Roman numerals, I and II. Alternatively, it is spelled out as First World War, or Second World War. WWI is commonly known here as The Great War, too.

I'm not sure if that helps or if it just makes it more confusing. Australia in general tends to try to follow British lead in relation to the English language, rather than US English.

Helen

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song about world war 1
From: GUEST,Derrick
Date: 02 Oct 16 - 11:33 AM

Looking at different web sites on World War 1,I noticed that with some type faces the letter 1 does look a bit like a letter I, could this have confused you?
Some writers do like to use Roman numerals just to show off and in their eyes appear more learned to the reader.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song about world war 1
From: GUEST,Derrick
Date: 02 Oct 16 - 11:11 AM

Joe, Regarding your question,the piece below comes from Wikipedia.



In Canada, Maclean's magazine in October 1914 wrote, "Some wars name themselves. This is the Great War."[17] During the interwar period (1918–1939), the war was most often called the World War and the Great War in English-speaking countries.

The term "First World War" was first used in September 1914 by the German biologist and philosopher Ernst Haeckel, who claimed that "there is no doubt that the course and character of the feared 'European War' ... will become the first world war in the full sense of the word,"[18] citing a wire service report in The Indianapolis Star on 20 September 1914. After the onset of the Second World War in 1939, the terms World War I or the First World War became standard, with British and Canadian historians favouring the First World War, and Americans World War I.[19]

Pasted from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_I

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song about world war 1
From: maeve
Date: 02 Oct 16 - 10:40 AM

Guest Sueellen -
Can you remember anything more about the song you seek? What made it seem Irish to you? Where did you hear it? How long ago? If it was a recording, do you know who sang it? Was it in a movie, on an LP or some other form of recording, or sung live?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song about world war 1
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan
Date: 02 Oct 16 - 10:27 AM

Sorry, Keith - I don't understand your last post (so to speak) re May 2008?

Regards

Martin

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song about world war 1
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Oct 16 - 10:09 AM

Not quite true. I bought Christmas trees for years at the War Memorial Hall in Rathfarnham, Dublin

May 2008. No veterans were left by then.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song about world war 1
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan
Date: 02 Oct 16 - 09:33 AM

On Joe's question:
in my experience in Ireland

1914-8: generally WW1 (not that it's easy to tell from WWI!), occasionally The Great War
1939-45: pretty well always WW2 - except perhaps on movie posters!

Regards

p.s. "Great" is of course a matter of scale not quality!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song about world war 1
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan
Date: 02 Oct 16 - 09:28 AM

British soldiers from Ireland returning to the South after the war received no recognition.
No memorials were erected, no parades and no acts of remembrance.


Not quite true. I bought Christmas trees for years at the War Memorial Hall in Rathfarnham, Dublin - and there are others. Similarly with memorials and acts of remembrance. Not common, often neglected - but there.

Regards

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song about world war 1
From: Joe Offer
Date: 02 Oct 16 - 09:20 AM

I repeat: But in Europe, is it World War 1, or World War I? It's always the latter in the U.S.
Joe

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song about world war 1
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Oct 16 - 04:40 AM

Joe,

I lost your train of thought, Keith. Wasn't World War I more of an east-west war?

British soldiers from Ireland returning to the South after the war received no recognition.
No memorials were erected, no parades and no acts of remembrance.

"This was not an Ireland for a southern Catholic who had served in the British army. A collective national amnesia had decided that the southern Irish soldiers belonged neither to the unionist tradition of the north or the republican legacy of the south. Many veterans, including my great-grandfather, decided to live outside Ireland after the war. Poverty and high unemployment were certainly factors, but so too was the explicit hostility to those who had served in the war."
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/05/irish-soldiers-who-fought-for-britain

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song about world war 1
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Oct 16 - 04:19 AM

There are no "great wars" only wars that kill people, usually avoidably
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song about world war 1
From: Joe Offer
Date: 02 Oct 16 - 03:57 AM

But in Europe, is it World War 1, or World War I? It's always the latter in the U.S.
Joe

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song about world war 1
From: Mr Red
Date: 02 Oct 16 - 03:40 AM

Pete St John complete song list best of luck.
I doubt it is one of these

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song about world war 1
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan
Date: 02 Oct 16 - 03:09 AM

Aaargh.... My porous memory is leaking again.... Is there not a Pete St. John song along the lines suggested?

Regards

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song about world war 1
From: GUEST,In good company
Date: 02 Oct 16 - 03:05 AM

I concur with Mr McGrath on both counts!

Spread your search to include non-Irish songs and it may help.

I think they are already inexorably linked and it is inevitable that future generations will refer to 1 and 2 as a 'series'. As long as they learn from them they can call them what they like!

D.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song about world war 1
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Oct 16 - 06:21 PM

Probably isn't an Irish song, rather than a song that might been adopted there. That's the case more often than not.
..............................
The Great War was what it was called at the time and after. World War I caught on after the next one, in England as well, but in more recent years, and in the context of the centenary, the older term has seemed to come back into vogue.

I always prefer "The Great War" - somehow it seems to show more respect.

I wonder if future generations might merge them together as one war, the way we do with the Napoleonic Wars (and the earlier Revolutionary War) setting aside the fact that at one point it stopped, only to start again, after a shorter interval than in the 20th century, since the peace only lasted from 1803 to 1805. It seems right in many ways actually to recognise the two 20th century wars as essentially one long conflict in two halfs, like a nightmare game of football.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song about world war 1
From: Joe Offer
Date: 01 Oct 16 - 04:12 PM

I lost your train of thought, Keith. Wasn't World War I more of an east-west war?

-Joe-

P.S. One thing I've noticed that makes me wonder. In the U.S., we refer to "The Great War" as World War I, with a Roman numeral. Many Europeans call it World War 1, with an Arabic numeral. Is that standard practice in Europe?

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song about world war 1
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Oct 16 - 01:15 PM

It must be a Northern song.
There was little respect or recognition shown to old soldiers in the South after the war.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: song about world war 1
From: Joe Offer
Date: 01 Oct 16 - 11:04 AM

Sounds like an interesting song, but I can't find it.
Anybody know this one?
-Joe-

Subject: Lyr Req: song about world war 1
From: GUEST,Sueellen
Date: 30 Sep 16 - 04:25 PM

Searching for a great Irish song about an old soldier after world war one-The Great War-still marching through the town playing a drum and singing for the children-who follow him-I can't remember the title or the lyrics-I think part of the chorus was "play us a tune/song that you played in the war" Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thankyou.