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Media criticism banned by Pacifica

katlaughing 10 Dec 99 - 06:11 PM
Cynic 10 Dec 99 - 08:51 PM
Freddie Fox 10 Dec 99 - 09:21 PM
northfolk/al cholger 10 Dec 99 - 09:36 PM
bseed(charleskratz) 10 Dec 99 - 10:58 PM
thosp 10 Dec 99 - 11:39 PM
_gargoyle 10 Dec 99 - 11:41 PM
thosp 10 Dec 99 - 11:42 PM
thosp 10 Dec 99 - 11:45 PM
bseed(charleskratz) 11 Dec 99 - 03:02 AM
catspaw49 11 Dec 99 - 09:05 AM
Art Thieme 11 Dec 99 - 10:41 AM
11 Dec 99 - 12:41 PM
bseed(charleskratz) 11 Dec 99 - 01:03 PM
Áine 11 Dec 99 - 01:08 PM
katlaughing 11 Dec 99 - 01:25 PM
thosp 11 Dec 99 - 02:38 PM
Willie-O 11 Dec 99 - 03:30 PM
_gargoyle 12 Dec 99 - 01:52 PM
_gargoyle 12 Dec 99 - 10:04 PM
thosp 12 Dec 99 - 11:08 PM
GeorgeH 13 Dec 99 - 07:27 AM
13 Dec 99 - 11:33 AM
Paul S 13 Dec 99 - 11:33 AM
katlaughing 13 Dec 99 - 02:03 PM
Jack (who is called Jack) 13 Dec 99 - 02:22 PM
InOBU 13 Dec 99 - 03:43 PM
bseed(charleskratz) 14 Dec 99 - 02:31 AM
_gargoyle 15 Dec 99 - 11:02 PM
thosp 15 Dec 99 - 11:53 PM
bseed(charleskratz) 16 Dec 99 - 12:30 AM
The Gargoyle Hunter 16 Dec 99 - 09:50 PM
thosp 06 Mar 00 - 05:35 AM
thosp 06 Mar 00 - 06:00 AM
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Subject: Media criticism banned by Pacifica
From: katlaughing
Date: 10 Dec 99 - 06:11 PM

FAIR-L Fairness & Accuracy in Reporting Media analysis, critiques and news reports

ACTION ALERT: Pacifica's WPFW Axes FAIR's CounterSpin: Media Criticism Show Cancelled After Three Earlier Instances of Censorship

December 10, 1999

Without notice to producers or listeners, the Washington, D.C.-based Pacifica affiliate WPFW has cancelled FAIR's radio show, CounterSpin. FAIR learned of the cancellation early this week when listeners called our offices to ask why the show was not on the air.

CounterSpin--a media criticism show--has been censored by Pacifica stations five times this year for covering the ongoing crisis at the network. A brief history:

-- 4/16/99: Los Angeles Pacifica affiliate KPFK refuses to run a CounterSpin featuring Larry Bensky, the recently fired host of Pacifica's Sunday Salon.

-- 4/19/99: WPFW cuts off the CounterSpin broadcast featuring Bensky in mid-interview.

-- 7/16/99: KPFK edits a broadcast featuring KPFA local advisory board member J. Imani and media critic Norman Solomon to include commentary on Pacifica from KPFK station manager Mark Schubb.

-- 7/19/99: WPFW refuses to run the show featuring Imani and Solomon.

-- 11/9/99: WPFW interrupts CounterSpin in the middle of an item about the "reassignment" of Pacifica Network news director Dan Coughlin.

In an indication of WPFW's hostility to efforts to cover the crisis at Pacifica, program director Lou Hankins told FAIR associate Laura Flanders that the station pulled CounterSpin's July 16 discussion of Pacifica issues because "We're not putting that garbage on our air." (In These Times, 9/5/99)

When FAIR contacted WPFW this week to ask why, after years of providing the station with a high-quality show for free, FAIR had been given no notification of its cancellation, general manager Bessie Wash replied only, "I'm sorry if that upsets you." She gave no explanation for the cancellation.

"It's hard to conclude this is anything but a final act of censorship by WPFW," commented CounterSpin co-host Steve Rendall. "For years, WPFW has run our analyses of fear and favor at other news outlets-but when we turned our attention to Pacifica, WPFW repeatedly interfered with and finally cancelled our show."

ACTION: Contact WPFW and ask why they cancelled CounterSpin, and why they did so without notifying either Pacifica listeners or FAIR. If you are a WPFW listener, or a member of a Pacifica station elsewhere in the country, be sure to include that information in your letter. As always, please remember that letters with a calm, professional tone are taken more seriously than angry ones.

WPFW 2390 Champlain Street NW Washington, D.C. 20009 PHONE: 1-888-770-4944. (Bessie Wash, general manager, x348) (Lou Hankins, program director, x336) FAX: 202-588-0561 mailto: wpfwfm@aol.com

Pacifica Foundation National Office 1929 Martin Luther King Berkeley, CA 94704 PHONE: (510) 843-0130 1-888-387-8263 FAX: (510) 845-0289 mailto: pacno@pacifica.org mailto: mfberry@sas.upenn.edu


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Subject: RE: Media criticism banned by Pacifica
From: Cynic
Date: 10 Dec 99 - 08:51 PM

Does anyone care


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Subject: RE: Media criticism banned by Pacifica
From: Freddie Fox
Date: 10 Dec 99 - 09:21 PM

Obviously not!!!


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Subject: RE: Media criticism banned by Pacifica
From: northfolk/al cholger
Date: 10 Dec 99 - 09:36 PM

To Cynic and Freddie Fox,

Crawl back in the whole you came out of. There are many just at this site who are constantly vigilant over the litany of attacks on our rights.

Pacifica Radio, up til the last year has been one of the only resources for a consistently progressive point of view. All other radio in this country has their format controlled by corporate sponsorship, including National Public Radio, which is merely a shadow of itself.

I'm confident that I am not alone in my disdane for the never ending stream of misogyny and hatefulness that masquerades as talk radio.

I have and will continue to make my feelings known to Pacifica Radio, and anyone else who will listen about this issue.


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Subject: RE: Media criticism banned by Pacifica
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 10 Dec 99 - 10:58 PM

Amen, Northfolk. As a listener/member of KPFA in Berkeley, I am well aware of Pacifica's attempts to edit the news over its member stations. KPFA is the ONLY local news source which can depended upon to provide news that hasn't been screened to avoid upsetting corporate sponsors. And the station is conducting a continuing fight to protect its right to serve its listeners as they want to be served. The current Pacifica board of directors recognize no responsibility to the contributors who provide 90% of the budget.

--seed


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Subject: RE: Media criticism banned by Pacifica
From: thosp
Date: 10 Dec 99 - 11:39 PM

well Cynic (Freddie i'm not what you mean) it might be a good idea to care -- otherwise we can just scrap this right --

[ Index ] [ Constitution ] [ Bill of Rights ] [ Additional Amendments ] [ Sponsored by: ]

Congress OF THE United States begun and held at the City of New-York, on Wednesday the Fourth of March, one thousand seven hundred and eighty nine.

THE Conventions of a number of the States having at the time of their adopting the Constitution, expressed a desire, in order to prevent misconstruction or abuse of its powers, that further declaratory and restrictive clauses should be added: And as extending the ground of public confidence in the Government, will best insure the beneficent ends of its institution

RESOLVED by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, two thirds of both Houses concurring, that the following Articles be proposed to the Legislatures of the several States, as Amendments to the Constitution of the United States, all or any of which Articles, when ratified by three fourths of the said Legislatures, to be valid to all intents and purposes, as part of the said Constitution; viz.:

ARTICLES in addition to, and Amendment of the Constitution of the United States of America, proposed by Congress, and ratified by the Legislatures of the several States, pursuant to the fifth Article of the original Constitution.

Article the first [Not Ratified] After the first enumeration required by the first Article of the Constitution, there shall be one Representative for every thirty thousand, until the number shall amount to one hundred, after which the proportion shall be so regulated by Congress, that there shall be not less than one hundred Representatives, nor less than one Representative for every forty thousand persons, until the number of Representatives shall amount to two hundred; after which the proportion shall be so regulated by Congress, that there shall not be less than two hundred Representatives, nor more than one Representative for every fifty thousand persons. Article the second [Amendment XXVII - Ratified 1992] No law, varying the compensation for the services of the Senators and Representatives, shall take effect, until an election of Representatives shall have intervened. Article the third [Amendment I] Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. because the Pacifica board certainly has!

peace (Y) thosp


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Subject: RE: Media criticism banned by Pacifica
From: _gargoyle
Date: 10 Dec 99 - 11:41 PM

It is about time!!!

It should have been canceled three years ago.

The "sickness of PBR" is that they believe that within at "free market system" they are "entitled" to a "free-ride.".....If the public "won't buy it"....why do you believe you have a "right to sell it???????"???/////////????

Leave the socialism to the European Contenant!!!

A lot of good it has done them


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Subject: RE: Media criticism banned by Pacifica
From: thosp
Date: 10 Dec 99 - 11:42 PM

000ppppps--got more that i intended --just meant the bottom part Article the third-Amendment 1


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Subject: RE: Media criticism banned by Pacifica
From: thosp
Date: 10 Dec 99 - 11:45 PM

gargoyle---you are usually more coherent--what are you saying?
peace (Y) thosp


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Subject: RE: Media criticism banned by Pacifica
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 11 Dec 99 - 03:02 AM

As if anyone cares...

--seed


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Subject: RE: Media criticism banned by Pacifica
From: catspaw49
Date: 11 Dec 99 - 09:05 AM

How appropriate your comment Seed. I wonder if he gets it?

Al - An excellent post. The unfortunate pablum-like programming that has overtaken so many PBS stations is a great loss and I fear that the remaining bastions of those keeping the original intent alive are not long for this world. A fight is still on and perhaps we can save the few.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Media criticism banned by Pacifica
From: Art Thieme
Date: 11 Dec 99 - 10:41 AM

Kat,

Thanks for letting me in on this. Lately I need you to keep my lazy frame vigilant.

We in the heartland have not all been aware of what was going down out there. As an old idealist (who used to host an NPR radio show), it was a rude awakening to realize how thin-skinned "peaple" can be---not just A.M. radio people. The clay feet on NPR are now well past the waistline to these aging eyes. Long ago the malady got to the heart and now it's grasping for the windpipe as we speak (or try to).
Thanks again Ms. Kat !

Garg, You don't seem to get it. It wasn't socialism the Russian people rebelled against. It was totalitarianism and inhumanity. To me it seems that the baby got tossed with the flush of the toilet. Isn't it strange that, at the time when this nation is most prosperous, individual greed threatens even the Social Security program??

Art


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Subject: RE: Media criticism banned by Pacifica
From:
Date: 11 Dec 99 - 12:41 PM


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Subject: RE: Media criticism banned by Pacifica
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 11 Dec 99 - 01:03 PM

Nah, not so strange, Art. It's the same old same old: them that gots wants more. Faced with a budget surplus for the first time since WWII, what do politicians on both sides wanna do? Cut taxes. Not cut the deficit--too many campaign contributers make too much of their income collecting interest on the national debt. Not establish a just system for providing health care--they got theirs, screw the rest of the country. Not help lift the rest of the world so they could actually afford our exports--that would eliminate the source of their most important resource: slave labor.

--seed


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Subject: RE: Media criticism banned by Pacifica
From: Áine
Date: 11 Dec 99 - 01:08 PM

Excellent post, Art. Very appropos to an 'interview' show I was listening to yesterday on the local PBS radio station. The topic was the situation in Chechnya and callers were solicited to 'add to the discussion.' However, the host of the show hung up on three callers in a row that were pointing out mistakes in his description of the situation. Shortly afterward, the program took a break and I listened to three 'support announcements' from local corporations.

Why don't they just change the name to 'Corporate Broadcasting' and have done with it?

-- Áine


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Subject: RE: Media criticism banned by Pacifica
From: katlaughing
Date: 11 Dec 99 - 01:25 PM

Dear Art,

I think you malign yourself by calling yourself lazy; rather resting on your laurels! Well-deserved at that, my friend. Thanks for your support and the info posted. I couldn't agree more.

And, Aine, I am glad somebody, somewhere, in this "great" country is talking about it.

When I heard the pronouncement by the Russians, earlier this week, I wondered at the complacency and lack of outrage which seems to hang like a pall over this land. What the hell is up with people anyway? How can we sit idly by when they threaten people in their homes like that? I know there are no easy answers and I do not want us to go to war, but in this day and age, they should NOT be pulling that kind of shit anywhere, on anyone, and the world leaders need to be a bit more vociferous about it not being okay!


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Subject: RE: Media criticism banned by Pacifica
From: thosp
Date: 11 Dec 99 - 02:38 PM

Art & Seed --thank you for expressing it so well!

peace (Y) thosp


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Subject: RE: Media criticism banned by Pacifica
From: Willie-O
Date: 11 Dec 99 - 03:30 PM

Well I'm a stranger to Pacifica...except I read enough U.S. magazines and stuff to know there's been a situation going on there for some time.

Interesting thinking aout the parallels between PBS and CBC--the CBC is perhaps going in the same direction, in some ways, except that it is government (tax) supported rather than by those incredibly annoying funding drives...but I think both in the U.S. and Canada, where there is a major nation-wide public broadcasting network, there is still a need for a looser network of independent non-profit community stations which in many cases are opinion leaders among the media, although they won't admit it. (But what made "alternative music" a phenom, and keeps indy folk music on the airwaves? College radio. And where do many or most broadcasters start learning their trade? College/community radio.)

It appears that it's problematic to develop such independents into a regional network--it attracts takeover (and makeover) interest.

Bill C


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Subject: RE: Media criticism banned by Pacifica
From: _gargoyle
Date: 12 Dec 99 - 01:52 PM

Sorry about the garbled clarity

The message was, "You get what you pay for"


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Subject: RE: Media criticism banned by Pacifica
From: _gargoyle
Date: 12 Dec 99 - 10:04 PM

Art - I respect you but....how did you bring the Russians into this thread?,,,,

Examples of the socialism to which I speak is in Sweden, Finland, GB and other European sites....the USSR?....come on...the tense used was PRESENT not PAST....


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Subject: RE: Media criticism banned by Pacifica
From: thosp
Date: 12 Dec 99 - 11:08 PM

Well here goes

Gargoyle--it seems to me a case of NOT getting what you pay for--
Pacifica radio-(in the past)has presented itself as being against censorship ( they stood for other things as well --but i want to stick to one point here) it has attracted a paying audience based on that position-and now it censors (and fires employees)anything and everyone that is critical of some of the actions of the Pacifica board ---Fair was free to Pacifica --but it's subscribers were paying Pacifica for it--kind of sounds like capitalism to me --- but i don't care what the label is -- the situation stinks!---------

peace(Y)thosp


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Subject: RE: Media criticism banned by Pacifica
From: GeorgeH
Date: 13 Dec 99 - 07:27 AM

Gargoyle . .

I'll back European "Socialism" against US Free Market Anarchy (or whatever euphemism you choose to use for it) any day. Might is NOT right, whatever you may think. The only thing that puzzles me is what interest you have in this music and why you hang out here (yes, that IS only one thing!)

Mind you, your suggestion that the current UK Government might be socialist was the best joke I've seen on Mudcat any day.

Now - is Seeger's (or was it MacColl's) "Song of Choice" in the database?

Kat - I'm saddened, although not surprised, by your report, and thank you for making me better informed about what "freedom" means in "the land of the free".

G.


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Subject: RE: Media criticism banned by Pacifica
From:
Date: 13 Dec 99 - 11:33 AM

One thing I've always found interesting is that almost every futuristic book or movie that shows a positive future, shows a socialistic (is that a word) society.

One time on Star Trek, they picked up a frozen 20th century Texas Oil-man. Picard had to explain to him that the money he had put away before being frozen was worthless now, because money was no longer needed or used. When he told him that everybody was provided with what they needed, the Texan angrily asked, (extremely loose quote) "If there's no money, what is the motivation for people to make something of themselves?"

Picard's answer: "Self-improvement".

But I swear I'm not a Sci-Fi geek!

Paul.


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Subject: RE: Media criticism banned by Pacifica
From: Paul S
Date: 13 Dec 99 - 11:33 AM

One thing I've always found interesting is that almost every futuristic book or movie that shows a positive future, shows a socialistic (is that a word) society.

One time on Star Trek, they picked up a frozen 20th century Texas Oil-man. Picard had to explain to him that the money he had put away before being frozen was worthless now, because money was no longer needed or used. When he told him that everybody was provided with what they needed, the Texan angrily asked, (extremely loose quote) "If there's no money, what is the motivation for people to make something of themselves?"

Picard's answer: "Self-improvement".

But I swear I'm not a Sci-Fi geek!

Paul.


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Subject: RE: Media criticism banned by Pacifica
From: katlaughing
Date: 13 Dec 99 - 02:03 PM

Oh, sure Paul! We believe you for sure!**BG**

Self-improvement, hmmmm, what a concept! Isn't that what plastic surgeons get paid for? Heehee

katlaughing


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Subject: RE: Media criticism banned by Pacifica
From: Jack (who is called Jack)
Date: 13 Dec 99 - 02:22 PM

Kat. What's the "crisis" at the station to which you refer?


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Subject: RE: Media criticism banned by Pacifica
From: InOBU
Date: 13 Dec 99 - 03:43 PM

Thanks for the info. I have been a great fan and benificiary of Pasificas reporting on our own NYCs WBAI. I have been very saddened that Pasifica has not lived up to the ideals of the better society they claim to be activly involved in creating. In fact are involved, in creating, though, when one does not teach by example you undermine your good work
Now friend Gargoyle! You get what you PAY FOR? Ever been to a hospital in the US? Or do you own an insurence company. Other Americans dont seem to be getting the worth for their cash... but, I dont know, in my experience, not being able to get the insurence companies to pay the huge price of keeping me alive, though I am being bled by the insurence companies like an old time doctor with leaches, well, the old saying come the revolution everyone will be eating borst, that borst sounds better every year!
Hope everyone gets their moneysworth this consumer holiday
and to everyone else, Happy Christmas, Chanuka, Kwansa, Ramadan, and to all a good night!
Larry


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Subject: RE: Media criticism banned by Pacifica
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 14 Dec 99 - 02:31 AM

And Gargoyle, the problem is exactly that if Pacifica has its way, we DON"T get what we pay for. We who pay for the stations believe the stations should use our contributions to serve us; we give them our money with the understanding that they will do so. The Pacifica Foundation was itself founded by KPFA for the sake of serving KPFA and stations which had been established with similar missions... somehow, Mary Francis Barry and her ilk managed to get control over the foundation, changed the constitution to allow themselves to continue to appoint themselves and their corporate allies to the board, taking that right away from the stations. When KPFA and other stations criticized this power grab, Pacifica started firing its critics, hired security guards who ultimately locked the employees and volunteers who provided 90% of the programming out of the station, and ultimately were forced to back down and rehire most of the people it had fired, and has finally been forced to swallow the expense of the security guards which it had hired and which it tried to make KPFA listeners pay for.

Pacifica has about as much "right" to censor its member stations as you have to dictate the content of the Mudcat threads.

--seed


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Subject: RE: Media criticism banned by Pacifica
From: _gargoyle
Date: 15 Dec 99 - 11:02 PM

if the station was as IMPORTANT to YOU and your friends...

..........as it was to Mary Francis Barry ....
you would have "kept control" and not become complacent.


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Subject: RE: Media criticism banned by Pacifica
From: thosp
Date: 15 Dec 99 - 11:53 PM

since when has life been that simple?

peace (Y) thosp


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Subject: RE: Media criticism banned by Pacifica
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 16 Dec 99 - 12:30 AM

It's important enough to me to pump $360 bucks a year into my membership and additional fund drives. There is a members legal challenge underway now to the changes MFB and her allies managed to make in the constitution--but you're right in one thing, Garg--the price of liberty is eternal vigilance. Catch-22 says they'll do anything to you that they have the power to do: and the "they" in this case sure ain't lefties. They are way out there to the right of Genghis Khan, familiar territory to you--out where power is its own justification.

--seed


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Subject: RE: Media criticism banned by Pacifica
From: The Gargoyle Hunter
Date: 16 Dec 99 - 09:50 PM

My dearest _gargoyle,
Your obnoxiousness is only outweighed by your naivety, you ridiculous little cur!


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Subject: RE: Media criticism banned by Pacifica
From: thosp
Date: 06 Mar 00 - 05:35 AM

_ New Storm Over Pacifica

A call for peace between warring sides at the progressive radio network may only make matters worse.

by Pam Squyres Feb. 25, 2000

(This is a corrected version of this article.)

In an unprecedented twist in the bitter struggle at the Pacifica radio network, a group of 42 prominent progressives signed a letter this week calling for a truce between management at the alternative broadcast network and workers at its flagship station in Berkeley -- but in doing so, they may have only escalated the conflict.

"I'm looking for peace," says filmmaker Saul Landau, the letter's author and a fellow at the Institute for Policy Studies, a progressive think tank. While the letter calls for reconciliation, it also castigates the network's critics for "Pacifica bashing" and calls a recent strike by free-lance contributors to the Pacifica News Network "unconscionable." Other prominent signers include Oakland mayor Jerry Brown, actors Ed Asner and Mike Farrell, and David Corn, Washington editor of The Nation.

"I keep asking (Pacifica critics), what is the strategy?" says Landau. "How are we going to get past this? And I hear accusations: They did this, and they did that. I say that may be so, but what's the strategy to move on?"

Many KPFA supporters, though, see the letter more as a call to arms than a call for peace. "It's not conciliatory," said Andrea Buffa, executive director of Media Alliance and a vocal KPFA supporter. "It's a veiled attack on Pacifica critics."

The dispute has proven deeply divisive within the progressive community. The conflict began with the abrupt dismissal in March 1999 of Nicole Sawaya, the popular general manager at KPFA, which shocked long-standing employees and listeners. When Larry Bensky, a KPFA talk show host sometimes called the station's "signature voice," criticized the dismissal on the air, he was fired. KPFA staff cried censorship.

Listeners and supporters picketed the station, drawing national media attention. The level of vitriol escalated in July when "Flashpoints" host Dennis Bernstein was pulled off the air and forcibly removed from the premises for airing a news item that Pacifica management deemed critical of itself on his show. The following month saw a lockout of station staff by Pacifica management, live programming replaced by taped shows and music, and nonstop demonstrations. Names like Joan Baez, Noam Chomsky and others chimed in to support the protest.

Landau says he was impelled to write the letter after the conflict's latest flare-up: In early February Dan Coughlin, news director for Pacifica National News, was removed from his duties after running a piece that addressed a conflict between Pacifica management and 16 Pacifica affiliates. A group of news free-lancers for PNN called for a work stoppage in protest. Pacifica said Coughlin was moved for other reasons.

While affirming the free-lancers' right to disagree with Pacifica management, Landau charges that, "They do not have a right to cloak their grievances in the language of a bona fide labor dispute," traditionally a powerful symbol among those on the left.

Striking Pacifica free-lancer Robin Urevich disagrees. "Many strikes don't have to do with working conditions and wages, but have to do with workers' ability to have some control over their work," she says. She compares the striking free-lancers to nurses who strike out of concern that patients get good care.

Landau says he's simply out to calm the debate. "This is an act of faith -- faith in the reasonableness of people on both sides," he says.

That's not how it sounds to Nicole Sawaya, the former KPFA general manager whose dismissal started it all. She credits Landau with good intentions, but says, "Now is not the time to join hands and sing 'Kumbaya.'" She puts the blame on Pacifica management, saying KPFA's efforts to negotiate "have been rebuffed every step of the way."

Though the letter decries the "veritable war on Pacifica" which "could lead to the death of the only alternative radio network progressives possess," Landau insists that the letter does not support management. "Pacifica made terrible mistakes. I don't think (in the letter) I've said anything good about how the board has handled things," he says.

As the free-lancer strike continues, the February 27 meeting of Pacifica's board in Washington promises to be acrimonious, amid charges that new nominees for the board are continuing what Pacifica critics say is a trend toward stacking Pacifica's board with non-progressive, corporate-friendly members.

Related links:

FAIR's Pacifica Radio page An overview from Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting

The Pacifica Struggle Continues From The Nation, September 1999

Pacifica Radio The network's site

Free Pacifica An anti-Pacifica management site

Struggle over public radio MoJo Wire, July 1999

E-mail the Editors | Other Articles by Pam Squyres | News Wire Archive

peace Y thosp


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Subject: RE: Media criticism banned by Pacifica
From: thosp
Date: 06 Mar 00 - 06:00 AM

http://www.radio4all.org/freepacifica/blueclikity thing for one side of the story peace Y thosp


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