BS: Hillary's emails again, and again,...

Subject: BS: Hilary's emails again, and again,...
From: beardedbruce
Date: 02 Nov 16 - 04:04 PM

Can anyone representing a liberal viewpoint comment on the points brought up here, without attacking either the poster or the writer of this article?

It would be an interesting change, and a welcome one.



.........................................................

"By William McGurn, The Wall Street Journal

Here are four words this columnist never thought he would type: Hillary Clinton is right.

Mrs. Clinton is right, at least, to this extent: When an FBI director links a presidential candidate to a criminal investigation 11 days out from the election, he owes the American people more than a vague promise to get back to us down the road.

Mrs. Clinton has responded by calling on Mr. Comey to release the emails the bureau has discovered on a home computer used by her aide, Huma Abedin. She demands this only because she is confident it will never happen.

Certainly there exist many practical obstacles to releasing the emails uncovered, including the inadvertent disclosure of classified information. Nevertheless, as unlikely as release may be, the case for more public information has become crucial now that the Justice Department has indicated this Clinton investigation, like the one before it, will go nowhere.

How do we know this? Mr. Comey may speak of going forward. But the objections of Justice suggest that it will again ensure that any investigation will be hindered by a lack of search warrants and subpoenas—and that whatever the FBI may turn up will never be put before a grand jury.

Justice inadvertently gave us a sign of just how important these tools are in a press release earlier this month touting the guilty felony plea by retired Marine Gen. James Cartwright for lying to the FBI in connection with the unauthorized disclosure of classified information. In it, Justice boasts about using all the tools at its disposal to get the general, including "subpoenas, search warrants and document requests"—tools the FBI mostly lacked while investigating Mrs. Clinton.

A truly independent press corps might help here if it were not bent on validating Donald Trump's complaints about a rigged system."

Subject: RE: BS: Hilary's emails again, and again,...
From: Greg F.
Date: 02 Nov 16 - 04:17 PM

Beardie, There was plenty of comment and refutation of the previous outrageous bullshit you posted from right-wing lunatic sites (The American Spectaror??? Give us a frickin break!!!)and demented Clinton-persecuting individuals of two decades' history - which you disregarded out of hand because it didn't validate your usual fact-averse spew.

Unfortunately, that thread was terminated - for reasons known only to Trump - and I predict this one will also be, so get that vomit laid out here while you have a chance.

Trump - and by extension those who support him - are indeed PROVEN many times over despicable pieces of crap.

Subject: RE: BS: Hilary's emails again, and again,...
From: Pete from seven stars link
Date: 02 Nov 16 - 04:50 PM

Not a liberal, but from the sidelines, and certainly not a fan of Clinton , it does seem unfair to not substantiate and just leave suspicion hanging. But I have no idea if her challenge is based on her innocence in this respect, or whether she knows of some other reason why nothing further was said. Either way, surely , nothing ought to have been said about email investigations if they were not willing to produce anything of substance.

Subject: RE: BS: Hilary's emails again, and again,...
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Nov 16 - 05:02 PM

Would these be the emails that HC didn't send?

Subject: RE: BS: Hilary's emails again, and again,...
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Nov 16 - 05:30 PM

Greg , this is me, cut it out. Not your POV but the profane nature of describing it. It doesn't change minds or promote any understanding of the truth. Facts may not matter this time around but they are your strongest hand. All UK contributors have the gift of expressing themselves under the umbrella USA free speech. Outrage is fine, outrageously insulting is not.

Emails- What Hillary did by Government rules and by-laws could have ended in dismissal at worst or a warning at least. It is not even close to criminal. After 25 years association with the Government I know his for a fact.

I believe Bill Clinton has vilified Hillary second only to Trump. Runway meeting...Obama Care diatribe...the famous cigar fetish.
At minimum, Bill only promoted himself.

Subject: RE: BS: Hilary's emails again, and again,...
From: Greg F.
Date: 02 Nov 16 - 05:59 PM

Greg , this is me, cut it out. Not your POV but the profane nature of describing it.


Take it up with Beardie, Donuel- a small but by no means comprehensive sampling of his posts to whit:

"YOU saying that I called someone a "Dirty Ni**er""

"You are such a bigoted turd"

"I would NEVER shit you- YOU are my favorite turd."

Puh-Leeze

Subject: RE: BS: Hilary's emails again, and again,...
From: robomatic
Date: 02 Nov 16 - 06:18 PM

There seem to be two streams of implications being foisted against Hillary Clinton vis-a-vis Email:

1) Illegal/ Traitorous release of confidential US information.
and
2) Secret/ Corrupt arrangements of Pay-To-Play by coordinating gifts to the Clinton Foundation to Government decisions/ actions via the State Department when Hillary was Secretary.

All I can say is that I've heard accusation after accusation without either coherent charges or anything other than blanket statements with no verification that can be substantiated. Much of the AM radio band in my town seems to be in an alternate universe based on the latest utterances of Donald J. Trump and wishful thinking uttered without filtration of probability or reality.

The first sentence in that last paragraph is supposed to be addressed by the F.B.I. Earlier this Summer they appeared to say there was no criminal case. Currently we are awaiting further developments.

Email is only Email. Covert ops and Corruption are also achieved by phone conversations, microdots, secret drops, and flinging coded messages over fences via shovel. . .

One does wonder where such vast counts of email messages come from. I was snowed by mere hundreds.

Subject: RE: BS: Hilary's emails again, and again,...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Nov 16 - 06:32 PM

I imagine the reason the thread was terminated was because of the unpleasant tone and distasteful nature of the insults being thrown around. If people would conduct this discussion in a civil way I don't imagine the problem would occur again.

However I rather doubt if that will be the case.

Subject: RE: BS: Hilary's emails again, and again,...
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Nov 16 - 07:02 PM

If I were a moderator on this board I would close this thread and suspend the person who started it for blatant contempt. But who am I. Not my bloody gig. Trollery personified.

Subject: RE: BS: Hilary's emails again, and again,...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Nov 16 - 08:30 PM

Surely "trumpery"...
................

But if we avoid the inadequate toilet training vocabulary and express our differences, and our attitudes to others in civil terms there'd be no reason for this thread to be shut down prematurely.   

Studied contempt, if that's what's called for, is more effective than throwing toys out of our pram and squalling.

Subject: RE: BS: Hilary's emails again, and again,...
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Nov 16 - 09:35 PM

Give over, Kevin. Yes, it's worth discussing, but yes, he's trolling. As unpromising a start to a thread as you could wish to have.

Subject: RE: BS: Hilary's emails again, and again,...
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Nov 16 - 01:17 AM

Agreed, Steve. He's trolling - by pissing in the wind. Hillary didn't break any laws, her email is a non-issue. After November 8, this is pure rhetoric seasoned with sour grapes, nothing more. And Kevin nailed it - when a thread reaches a point when the topic is no longer discussed and participants are calling each other names, it is time to close it down.

Subject: RE: BS: Hilary's emails again, and again,...
From: akenaton
Date: 03 Nov 16 - 04:11 AM

I think we all know WHY the thread was shut down Mr Mc Grath.

If it had remained a list of obscene insults about Mr Trump, it would have been gleefully encouraged.

Too much information was starting to appear.

I'm sorry about that but it has happened before, as they say we will have to "get used to it".

Subject: RE: BS: Hilary's emails again, and again,...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Nov 16 - 07:57 AM

No we don't " know why the thread was closed down", aken. But I doubt if it was anything to do with "too much information was starting to appear".

The posts had descended into an exchange of unpleasant exchanges of insults. It's perfectly possible to argue strongly without that - I can't ever recall you doing it for example.

I can't see how moderators can ever be reasonably accused of "gleefully encouraging anything".

And no we don't have to get used to individuals wilfully disrupting things by fouling the nest. It happens, it will happen again, but that doesn't mean accepting it. There used to be notices in buses asking people not to spit. You don't seem to see them these days, not because we've got used to the spitting, but because it's a lot less prevalent. It

Subject: RE: BS: Hilary's emails again, and again,...
From: beardedbruce
Date: 03 Nov 16 - 08:09 AM

Donuel,
"Emails- What Hillary did by Government rules and by-laws could have ended in dismissal at worst or a warning at least. It is not even close to criminal. After 25 years association with the Government I know his for a fact."

By benefit of my 38 years as a government contractor, NSA training in classified information handling and procedures, AISSR and AltCOMSEC custodian position at the SECRET level, I have to disagree.

The actions stated by HRC could result in 10 years imprisonment or more, under a felony ruling. The additional points ( conspiracy to violate the FOIA where covered up by the DOJ, destruction of government documents under subpoena) have never even been addressed, although stated by HRC in her various speeches


GregtrF,

"
"YOU saying that I called someone a "Dirty Ni**er""

"You are such a bigoted turd"

"I would NEVER shit you- YOU are my favorite turd.""

ALL of which are factual and can be documented here on MUDCAT.

You seem to be saying the MUDCAT is all BS- even those parts that YOU have NOT posted.

Subject: RE: BS: Hilary's emails again, and again,...
From: beardedbruce
Date: 03 Nov 16 - 08:27 AM

BTW, Donuel

GregtrF can't help it- he is the self-appointed Liberal Viewpoint to represent YOU. He is just applying his normal means of debate- attack the person rather than discuss the facts.

Subject: RE: BS: Hilary's emails again, and again,...
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Nov 16 - 08:32 AM

Whatever you say or wish for, the deliberate reopening of a closed topic by the chief perpetrator of the abuse that got it closed is extremely contemptuous of the moderators and is trolling personified. As you can imagine, the mods are not always my number one fans and I'm certainly not about to start sucking up to them now, but we should not be discussing those emails in this thread. Another time.

Subject: RE: BS: Hilary's emails again, and again,...
From: beardedbruce
Date: 03 Nov 16 - 08:42 AM

The topic was not a reason to close the thread- the postings of personnel attack by GregtrF certainly could have been, but ANY posts that support the majority viewpoint here are acceptable, while those that present a minority view are selectively removed, threads closed, and posters vilified.

As I said, in a factual post addressed to GregtrF,
""You are such a bigoted turd""

He makes personnel attacks rather than provide facts to support his viewpoint, and this has the full approval of the PTB, from all indications of removed postings and closed threads.

And this is what the Left considers discussion...

Subject: RE: BS: Hilary's emails again, and again,...
From: beardedbruce
Date: 03 Nov 16 - 09:02 AM

Steve Shaw,

"On The Kelly File Wednesday night, host Megyn Kelly asked former NY mayor Rudy Giuliani why all this is coming out now.

"We're a couple of days out from the election. This would have been good to know a few weeks ago for the record," Kelly said.

"Because my former assistant Jim Comey made the wrong decision in July," Giuliani replied. "You have outraged FBI agents that talk to me. They're outraged at the injustice. They're outraged by being turned down by the Justice Department to open a grand jury. They are convinced that Loretta Lynch has corrupted the Justice Department. You've got people in the Justice Department involved in this investigation who were defense lawyers for Clinton people.... This is about as outrageous a corruption of the Justice Department that we've seen."

Giuliani said that the dissension within the FBI is very real.

"These are men and women who uphold the law. They're not a bunch of slimy Washington politicians like the Obama administration and the people Clinton would bring in. And the reality is that they are outraged with what they have seen," the former prosecutor said.
Sponsored

"Mrs. Clinton has violated easily 20 - 30 federal laws," he continued. "I could outline them for you, I could show you how I could prosecute and convict her."

Giuliani said that back in July when he read FBI Director Comey's prosecutorial memo about the email case, "it was just the opposite of what he said."

He continued, "Every reasonable prosecutor would have prosecuted that case in a second. I've won convictions on half the evidence that the FBI had gotten in July, and Jim has an FBI that's in revolt right now and I think that's one of the reasons he came out and did what he did to try to control his agents -- who after all are true law enforcement people. And what they see is some of the slimiest stuff that we've seen in Washington since probably Teapot Dome."

"This is worse that Watergate," Giuliani declared. "They've corrupted the State Department with 'pay to play' and they've corrupted the Justice Department. You can't go much further than that, Megyn."

Subject: RE: BS: Hilary's emails again, and again,...
From: Pete from seven stars link
Date: 03 Nov 16 - 10:22 AM

I too suspect that sometimes threads are closed down by mods because of things said that oppose their world views but when there is a lot of foul abuse , closure becomes understandable. As mentioned, one member in particular sole mode of argument is abuse.

Subject: RE: BS: Hilary's emails again, and again,...
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Nov 16 - 10:30 AM

Oh dear. Serial postarrhoea. A symptom indicating that Bruce is definately off his meds again-

Subject: RE: BS: Hilary's emails again, and again,...
From: beardedbruce
Date: 03 Nov 16 - 10:43 AM

And so much for the "Official Liberal Viewpoint"....

Subject: RE: BS: Hilary's emails again, and again,...
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Nov 16 - 12:58 PM

+
First I apologize to Greg. For all I know Greg is an authentic like minded Russell Brand entitled to his own expression.

Social science experiments show that heckling the referee is effective in changing referee behavior in your favor.



Hillary got more than 1000 emails per day and less than 3000 emails per day.
My wife only gets about 1000 per day. This is after 22 personal settings and dept IT filters.

About Bill again. He did make one good speech but I left that out.
Omitting a fact is but one method of lying, intentional or not.


today Donald Trump explained Hillary's emails with special information no one else has ever heard before, with details unknown to
everyone else alive today. Could it be true? Anything is possible

Subject: RE: BS: Hilary's emails again, and again,...
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Nov 16 - 01:03 PM

today Donald Trump explained Hillary's emails with special information no one else has ever heard before, with details unknown to
everyone else alive today.

Not true! Beardie has heard all about it and knows all about it. And I'm sure that Psychopath Giuliani has and does as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Hilary's emails again, and again,...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Nov 16 - 01:10 PM

I think bruce should consider how far his own use of language and style of posting contributed to the reasonable decision to pull the plug on that thread.

I'd hesitate to take Giulini's word as evidence of anything except loyalty to Trump.

Subject: RE: BS: Hilary's emails again, and again,...
From: robomatic
Date: 03 Nov 16 - 02:02 PM

BB: I thought I tried to express a 'liberal' view that was respectful and to the point.
I think if you sample more of Giuliani's language you will find a hard headed partisan and his opinions as such. In the conversation you cited with Kelly he didn't actually verbalize any crimes or prosecutorial procedure despite saying it would be 'easy'.

Subject: RE: BS: Hilary's emails again, and again,...
From: beardedbruce
Date: 03 Nov 16 - 02:16 PM

Robomatic,

Your post of 02 Nov 06:18 is certainly to the point and in a reasonable language.

The point is that the DOJ and this administration has kept the FBI from performing an adaquate investigation by limiting the search warrants and refusing a grand jury to allow the determination of the facts.

Are you implying that the preset head of the DOJ , or the President, is any LESS partisan than Giuliani, a former government official? If the DOJ blocks investigation, how much evidence CAN be obtained?

Subject: RE: BS: Hilary's emails again, and again,...
From: beardedbruce
Date: 03 Nov 16 - 02:18 PM

"They're outraged by being turned down by the Justice Department to open a grand jury. They are convinced that Loretta Lynch has corrupted the Justice Department. You've got people in the Justice Department involved in this investigation who were defense lawyers for Clinton people.... This is about as outrageous a corruption of the Justice Department that we've seen."

Subject: RE: BS: Hilary's emails again, and again,...
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Nov 16 - 02:49 PM

Are you implying that the preset head of the DOJ , or the President, is any LESS partisan than Giuliani

No "implication" at all. Its an established fact.

Giuliani is a lying sack of dirt, also an established fact. If you recall, Tailgunner Joe McCarthy was a "former government official" - as was Dick Nixon- also lying sacks both.

And no, Beardie, in the real world, the administration has not "kept the FBI from performing an adaquate investigation".

Rave on.

Subject: RE: BS: Hilary's emails again, and again,...
From: beardedbruce
Date: 03 Nov 16 - 02:54 PM

"No "implication" at all. Its an established fact."

No, your statement is false.

"Giuliani is a lying sack of dirt, also an established fact. "

No, your statement is false

And no, Beardie, in the real world, the administration has not "kept the FBI from performing an adaquate investigation".

No, your statement is false.




I have examined ALL the evidence you have provided and determined that you are making false statements.

You have established yourself previously as a demonstrated liar. I have seen no evidence to indicate that you have changed.

Subject: RE: BS: Hilary's emails again, and again,...
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Nov 16 - 03:21 PM

I have examined ALL the evidence you have provided and determined that you are making false statements.

Well, ya see, Beardie, there's one of your problems. You haven't "examined" anything I've provided, you've dismissed it out of hand.

Lots of evidence has been provided by folks other than myself. You disregard that out of hand as well.

Lots of further evidence is available with minimal web searching. You refuse to educate yourself.

You prefer to take the accept the ravings of proven liars like Trump & Giuliani and of psychopaths like Alex Jones as fact.

That's not a "Conservative Viewpoint", Beardie. Its garbage.



Rave on.

Subject: RE: BS: Hilary's emails again, and again,...
From: beardedbruce
Date: 03 Nov 16 - 03:40 PM

Wrong again. YOU provided NOTHING to support your statments- YOU HAD NO EVIDENCE.

Since you cannot bother to provide evidence, I cannot bother to accept that you have any idea of what the truth is.

Rave on yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: Hilary's emails again, and again,...
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Nov 16 - 04:15 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_bQwBWqKjo

Subject: RE: BS: Hilary's emails again, and again,...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Nov 16 - 06:17 PM

Even if what Guliani was saying there was actually true, all it amounted ti was that some unknown individuals attached the FBI were shooting there mouth off about a disagreement Big deal.

Not exactly hard evidence. And of course that's quite a big "if".

Subject: RE: BS: Hilary's emails again, and again,...
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Nov 16 - 06:21 PM

Here's some hard evidence:

Video shows Trump with mob figure he denied knowing
Michael Isikoff
Yahoo News
November 2, 2016

A newly uncovered video appears to contradict Donald Trump's claim that he never knew a high-stakes gambler who was banned from New Jersey casinos for alleged ties to organized crime.

The reputed mob figure, Robert LiButti, can be seen standing alongside Trump in the front row of a 1988 "WrestleMania" match in Atlantic City, N.J. LiButti wasn't there by accident, according to his daughter, Edith Creamer, who also attended the event. "We were his guests," she told Yahoo News in a text message this week.

The video appears to lend new support to assertions Trump once had close relations with LiButti, who was banned from the state's casinos in 1991 because of his ties to Mafia boss John Gotti, then the chief of the Gambino crime syndicate.

Subject: RE: BS: Hilary's emails again, and again,...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Nov 16 - 07:49 PM

Trump is a liar.

And the pope is a Catholic.

Subject: RE: BS: Hilary's emails again, and again,...
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Nov 16 - 08:00 PM

Leave it, chaps. The topic is poisoned. Plenty else to focus on.

Subject: RE: BS: Hilary's emails again, and again,...
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Nov 16 - 08:40 PM

Yeah, but is TRUMP catholic?

Subject: RE: BS: Hilary's emails again, and again,...
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Nov 16 - 11:06 PM

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/21/us/politics/donald-trump-roy-cohn.html

http://www.advocate.com/election/2016/8/16/roy-cohn-and-donald-trump-mentor-and-protege

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/05/donald-trump-2016-dinner-party-213923

http://www.npr.org/2016/08/04/488722392/village-voice-reporter-recalls-roy-cohns-early-influence-on-trump

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/former-mccarthy-aide-showed-trump-how-to-exploit-power-and-draw-attention/2016/06/16/e9f44f20-2bf3-11e6-9b37-42985f6a265c_story.html

Subject: RE: BS: Hilary's emails again, and again,...
From: beardedbruce
Date: 04 Nov 16 - 07:35 AM

So, since the only replies are attacks on Trump, I have to presume that there is NO defense of HRC' actions and demonstrated offenses.

I have NEVER stated that Trump was a decent human being- Just that HRC was worse. She was in a position of trust and violated it for her own (perceived) gain.

No postings here have given me any reason to think otherwise.

Subject: RE: BS: Hilary's emails again, and again,...
From: Greg F.
Date: 04 Nov 16 - 10:05 AM

Rather, No postings here have given you any reason to think - particularly your own.

And these "demonstrated offenses" are? And demonstrated by whom? You, Trump Giuliani?

Subject: RE: BS: Hilary's emails again, and again,...
From: beardedbruce
Date: 04 Nov 16 - 10:22 AM

GregtrF,

The admitted violations of the law that HRC stated she had done, and the reasons she stated for doing so.

I notice you STILL attack me, and provide no facts to support your viewpoint.

Subject: RE: BS: Hilary's emails again, and again,...
From: Greg F.
Date: 04 Nov 16 - 11:12 AM

The admitted violations of the law that HRC stated she had done

Which are:??? And which law? And which court was she convicted in?

provide no facts to support your viewpoint

See above references by myself and others, whilst your "facts" come from the spew of Trump, Giuliani, Alex Jones and Michael Savage.

I notice you STILL attack me

I don't attack you, Beardie- you may be a wonderful person(??) I attack your willingness to re-broadcast the lies, misinformation & outright BS of others without bothering to question the source or the veracity.

You bet.

Subject: RE: BS: Hilary's emails again, and again,...
From: beardedbruce
Date: 04 Nov 16 - 11:40 AM

GregtrF,

HRC has stated:

That she used a private server for DOS messages in order to avoid the FOIA.

She stated, that she had destroyed emails that were under subpoena.

She stated that there were no classified material in the emails on her server, thus lying as it has been shown that there was.


One can violate the law without being convicted- when one is being protected by the administration and the DOJ. Al Capone was NEVER convicted of anything beyond tax evasion- and Nixon was never convicted of ANY crime at all.


You have yet to provide ANY facts to support your claims.

Subject: RE: BS: Hilary's emails again, and again,...
From: beardedbruce
Date: 04 Nov 16 - 12:09 PM

"Consider, for example, what we know about Hillary Clinton's e-mail scandal alone, and the skill it must take to avoid prison time for it. We know that Hillary Clinton's secret e-mail server was highly illegal because it processed and stored classified government information on an unsecure system. We know that much of this classified information originated with Clinton herself.

We know that she ordered at least one aide to break the law on her behalf by sending classified information over an unsecure system. We know she has lied repeatedly about transmitting classified information on her server, at press conferences and once, incredibly, under sworn testimony. We know that, although she insisted otherwise, Clinton deleted thousands of work-related e-mails. We know that one of her aides destroyed Clinton's mobile devices with a hammer, preventing a full forensic analysis of her e-mail usage. We know that Clinton has lied about the FBI's own assessment of her previous lies. And so forth.

Given this staggering level of criminal behavior, one might ask: how has Clinton been able to defend herself? The answer is: lying. For much more than a year Clinton has lied repeatedly and ceaselessly about her e-mail woes. She has lied about the classified information on the server, she has lied about her recordkeeping, she has lied about the very lies she has previously told, she has lied so frequently that it is entirely possible she has come to believe some of her own lies."

Subject: RE: BS: Hilary's emails again, and again,...
From: Vashta Nerada
Date: 04 Nov 16 - 12:20 PM

So, since the only replies are attacks on Trump, I have to presume that there is NO defense of HRC' actions and demonstrated offenses.

No, there are no offenses and no one is idiotic enough to argue with you and your cock-eyed view of the world. It would be a total waste of our time.

We don't need to prove anything to you. You can read, you simply need to stop blocking the reputable news outlets and open your mind to the answers.

Subject: RE: BS: Hilary's emails again, and again,...
From: Greg F.
Date: 04 Nov 16 - 12:29 PM

You have yet to provide ANY facts to support your claims.

Nor have you! just the same old lies, distortions and outright BS.

That she used a private server

As did Colin Powell. Its not now and was not then "illegal".

it has been shown that there was [classified information].

It has been alleged, not proven.

when one is being protected by the administration and the DOJ

Another Alex Jones accusation/lie with no supporting evidence.

Nice screed by Dan Payne that you lifted direct "The Federalist" by the way, long on invective, short on fact (or absent thererof?).

Of course Payne's studies in English Literature & Italian at a third-rate university ( and bugger-all else) establish his credentials as an expert on the subjects he bloviates about, right?

Again, all you can do, Beardie, is regurgitate this blogosphere nonsense.

Pitiful, reallt.

Subject: RE: BS: Hilary's emails again, and again,...
From: beardedbruce
Date: 04 Nov 16 - 12:30 PM

Agreed, you don't need to prove anything to me. BUT when I look at the statements of HRC and see that she has admitted to the violations of the law that she has, you cannot tell me that I should vote for her either.
IF this was a nation of laws, and the DOJ treated her as if she was any other citizen of this country, she would not be eligible to run for president, or any other public office.


So maybe YOU should just open your mind to those "reputable news outlets" and do what they direct you to regardless of your conscience.

Go do what you are told.

Subject: RE: BS: Hilary's emails again, and again,...
From: beardedbruce
Date: 04 Nov 16 - 12:38 PM

GregtrF

Using a private server FOR THE STATED PURPOSE of avoiding the FOIA AS A GOVERNMENT OFFICIAL is most certainly illegal.

The FBI has stated that there were classified emails on the server. FACT.

Subject: RE: BS: Hilary's emails again, and again,...
From: robomatic
Date: 04 Nov 16 - 01:11 PM

BB: No matter how much you ignore me you will not drive me to be rude (yet) but I responded twice and my only deficiency has been in being civil.

The PBS Show Frontline has done a very good show on both Hillary and Donald called "The Choice" and synopsizes major parts of their careers very well.

As I've already stated I think the EMail server angle has been overblown by Hillary's antagonists to the point of absurdity. I've been hearing absolute fables over the AM Band beyond anything in my memory. Last night there were some of the most scandalous things said about most members of the U.S. government including some shocking things about Scalia. I give no credence to any of them.

I think we are being subjected to a storm of misinformation which is being laid by multiple organizations and multiple single bad actors. More than ever one must consider the source AND the media. Unlike the old Gorbachev/ Reagan doctrine one must verify BEFORE trusting.

If you feel like being a bad actor your ownself, of course, nothing I've said in this thread is to the point, so I'm off.

Subject: RE: BS: Hilary's emails again, and again,...
From: DMcG
Date: 04 Nov 16 - 01:23 PM


Using a private server FOR THE STATED PURPOSE of avoiding the FOIA AS A GOVERNMENT OFFICIAL is most certainly illegal

She stated it? I don't know about you, but if I wanted to set up a server to do so, there is no way I would state that as its purpose. Keeping my personal emails private is not the same. So can you tell me in what circumstances she stated that she set it up to avoid the FOIA?

Subject: RE: BS: Hilary's emails again, and again,...
From: beardedbruce
Date: 04 Nov 16 - 02:01 PM

Robomatic,

I replied to your second post:

"Date: 03 Nov 16 - 02:16 PM

Robomatic,

Your post of 02 Nov 06:18 is certainly to the point and in a reasonable language.
........ "

As for the first, I read it and agree with the two catagories, but saw no reason to single out a reply.
As for the classified data on her server ( and in her un-secured email stream in general) I have commented on my reasons for my conclusions.

Donuel stated:
"Emails- What Hillary did by Government rules and by-laws could have ended in dismissal at worst or a warning at least. It is not even close to criminal. After 25 years association with the Government I know his for a fact."

By benefit of my 38 years as a government contractor, NSA training in classified information handling and procedures, AISSR and AltCOMSEC custodian position at the SECRET level, I have to disagree.

The actions stated by HRC could result in 10 years imprisonment or more, under a felony ruling. The additional points ( conspiracy to violate the FOIA where covered up by the DOJ, destruction of government documents under subpoena) have never even been addressed, although stated by HRC in her various speeches


DMcG,
"Keeping my personal emails private is not the same."

She stated she wanted to have the private server to keep her OFFICIAL government email private. THAT is a violation of the FOIA. She was subpoenaed to get those emails, and eventually turned over some and destroyed others. The FBI has reported that some of those that they discovered (of those deleted and then recovered by the FBI) were GOVERNMENT related, and her destruction is thus destroying evidence and government property.

Her private email she could certainly do with what she wanted- her OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT mail is , under FOIA, US Government property and by mixing the two on her illegal private server (illegal BECAUSE it was used for official government emails) she has brought this down upon herself.

Subject: RE: BS: Hilary's emails again, and again,...
From: DMcG
Date: 04 Nov 16 - 02:13 PM

She stated she wanted to have the private server to keep her OFFICIAL government email private

Yes, you have repeated the assertion. But I asked when and what circumstances she stated that purpose.

Subject: RE: BS: Hilary's emails again, and again,...
From: beardedbruce
Date: 04 Nov 16 - 02:18 PM

That was her stated reason for having the private server. I do not recall if it was in Congressional testimony or one of her speeches.

Subject: RE: BS: Hilary's emails again, and again,...
From: DMcG
Date: 04 Nov 16 - 02:31 PM

Or maybe it is just an unfounded accusation heard from a friend of a friend. Without tracking it down, who knows?

It is, when you think of it, a very odd thing to do. It is like the difference between shoplifting and going into a shop and shouting "Look, everyone, I'm shoplifting!".

Subject: RE: BS: Hilary's emails again, and again,...
From: beardedbruce
Date: 04 Nov 16 - 02:32 PM

Feel free to go look it up, and let me know if there was some other reason stated.

Subject: RE: BS: Hilary's emails again, and again,...
From: beardedbruce
Date: 04 Nov 16 - 03:04 PM

"The email in question was an exchange between Clinton and her Deputy Chief of Staff Huma Abedin on November 13, 2010. Abedin had suggested that Clinton should consider getting a state.gov email address since the emails from her private clintonemail.com server were being blocked by the State Department's spam filter.

Clinton rejected that suggestion out of hand:

    "Let's get separate address or device but I don't want any risk of the personal being accessible.""

http://www.aim.org/don-irvine-blog/usa-todays-susan-page-previously-undisclosed-clinton-email-shows-she-lied-about-reason-for-pr


So ALL of her mail, including the official government mail that she was required to turn over ( but did not) was put on a private server that was NEVER authorized for classified information.

Subject: RE: BS: Hilary's emails again, and again,...
From: DMcG
Date: 04 Nov 16 - 03:37 PM

But that IS an occasion where her stated purpose is for personal email. It is decidedly not am example of her STATING she wants the server to avoid F0IA

Subject: RE: BS: Hilary's emails again, and again,...
From: beardedbruce
Date: 04 Nov 16 - 03:43 PM

And she NEVER had a State Dept account.

Subject: RE: BS: Hilary's emails again, and again,...
From: Vashta Nerada
Date: 04 Nov 16 - 04:30 PM

IF this was a nation of laws, and the DOJ treated her as if she was any other citizen of this country, she would not be eligible to run for president, or any other public office.

Now THAT is an outright lie. All of it. And you know it, yet you continue to press your bigotted lies and suggest a conversation can be had with you.

Subject: RE: BS: Hilary's emails again, and again,...
From: Greg F.
Date: 04 Nov 16 - 06:28 PM

Well, Lies are what Beadie does. And ALL he does. But he doesn't even do it WELL, like the liars he parrots.

Subject: RE: BS: Hilary's emails again, and again,...
From: Greg F.
Date: 04 Nov 16 - 06:36 PM

Feel free to go look it up,

Ever consider looking it up yourself, Beardie, befoe spewing bullshit?

No, of copurse not.

Subject: RE: BS: Hilary's emails again, and again,...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Nov 16 - 06:53 PM

It really all sounds pretty trivial stuff.. There's no uss about all the other politicians who have used private email in the same way over the years.

Subject: RE: BS: Hilary's emails again, and again,...
From: Greg F.
Date: 04 Nov 16 - 07:00 PM

Nothing is trivial, Kevin, if you're a Trumpist lunatic - hell Them Mooselim Tayrists is to imposing Sharia Law as I type!

See " Trump Again" thread, most recent post.

Subject: RE: BS: Hilary's emails again, and again,...
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Nov 16 - 07:33 PM

HILLARY INDICTED !

so says FOX news and Donald, which was a total fair and balanced bald faced lie

Subject: RE: BS: Hilary's emails again, and again,...
From: Greg F.
Date: 04 Nov 16 - 07:55 PM

I'm sure Beardie believes it with his whole heart and soul, tho.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's emails again, and again,...
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Nov 16 - 01:05 AM

When she's elected, there will be individuals who have nothing more in mind than trying to block her at every turn, trying to make the case for bogus "crimes." Let's hope the American public has the good sense to give her some room to work in - like a Democratic Senate. And for good measure, a Democratic house. That would give her at least two years to try to whip things into shape, as long as she can harness the "blue dog" Democrats, the ones who made the first 2 years of Obama's first term so difficult. Republicans in Democrat's clothing. But maybe they won't be such scaredy cats this time around.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's emails again, and again,...
From: Greg F.
Date: 05 Nov 16 - 09:33 AM

And for good measure, a Democratic house

That one's DOA - she'll be stuck with Paul Ryan. Kinda like "Obama Take Two".

The Repuglicruds have learned nothing, and have changed not one whit.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's emails again, and again,...
From: DMcG
Date: 05 Nov 16 - 09:43 AM

And so would Trump - he and Ryan are not exactly best buddies. I don't think he can assume a compliant house and senate if he wins.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's emails again, and again,...
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 05 Nov 16 - 11:03 AM

The relationship between a Republican controlled Congress and a President Trump would be a bit like that between a man who thought he was happily married and the asshole new boyfriend his wife just left him for.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's emails again, and again,...
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Nov 16 - 11:16 AM

A moment of silence & sympathy for the FBI agents tasked with immersing themselves in all the e mails found in Anthony Wiener's sticky lap top.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's emails again, and again,...
From: Joe Offer
Date: 05 Nov 16 - 12:35 PM

McGrath says: I imagine the reason the thread was terminated was because of the unpleasant tone and distasteful nature of the insults being thrown around.

That would be a valid conclusion. Despite allegations from both sides of the argument that the moderators are politically biased, threads are closed because they have devolved into petty squabbling. We see a lot of that here.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's emails again, and again,...
From: Greg F.
Date: 05 Nov 16 - 12:40 PM

Then, of course, the outright lies and misinformation that are sometimes posted are pretty "distasteful" in and of themselves.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's emails again, and again,...
From: Greg F.
Date: 05 Nov 16 - 09:38 PM

Interesting reading:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2016/11/04/if-he-loses-trump-will-continue-spreading-destruction-and-mayhem-this-chart-shows-how/

https://newrepublic.com/article/138342/trump-apocalypse-might-not-come-republican-one-will

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's emails again, and again,...
From: robomatic
Date: 05 Nov 16 - 09:54 PM

BB: My apologies for missing your reply to my post. I am an incomplete reader.

Those who insist on making ad hominem attacks without contributing some valid input are merely diminishing their 'brand'. In other words, if you are wielding a tarbrush but not furnishing a light bulb, I am thinking less of you with each post. It doesn't take much to furnish links to support your position.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's emails again, and again,...
From: robomatic
Date: 05 Nov 16 - 10:11 PM

I apologize for consecutive posting, should have included this link in my last foray:

Vox-com- Clinton EMail Scandal BS

The website is new to me, I'm not claiming it is journalism. I feel at the least it gives counterpoint to the "Lock Her Up!" crowd.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's emails again, and again,...
From: Greg F.
Date: 06 Nov 16 - 11:45 AM

Fair And Balanced, Eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's emails again, and again,...
From: Joe Offer
Date: 06 Nov 16 - 12:38 PM

From the very beginning, I have not understood why this email thing is such a big issue. It would seem to me that the Secretary of State should have the authority to control her communications in any way she wishes. She should also be able to determine how she will handle classified information. After all, doesn't she have the authority to classify or declassify information?
I did government security work for 30 years, and I used government email on the job for over a decade. The technology was at least 10 year years behind what was available in the corporate market, so I can easily understand why secretary Clinton would want to use her own email system. On top of that, government computer systems have been compromised time and time again. Many government agencies are using the same software that I used 20 years ago, so now it is 30 years out of date.
So, as far as I can see, this entire email "scandal" is just another empty Republican attempt at character assassination.
Joe

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's emails again, and again,...
From: Greg F.
Date: 06 Nov 16 - 12:59 PM

This entire email "scandal" is just another empty Republican attempt at character assassination.

Ya got it in one, Joe.

But its hardly an "attempt" - for millions of evidently brain-damaged Americans, its a fait accompli.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's emails again, and again,...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Nov 16 - 01:13 PM

It's easy enough to see why political opponents might try to make a big issue of it - anything goes in political campaigning.

Apart that is from the occasional genuinely honest one - it was striking that, at the height of battling with Hillary for the nomination, Bernie Sanders said he was sick and tired of this stuff about Hillary's emails. "Let's go to the major issues that are facing America."

What's puzzling is why this non-issue should have got any more serious traction than nonsense conspiracy stuff did.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's emails again, and again,...
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Nov 16 - 01:24 PM

Because Trump hopes that if he repeats a lie often enough it will become true.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's emails again, and again,...
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Nov 16 - 01:35 PM

For a couple centuries Joe, elections have been brutal in the sense both sides throw dirty underwear against the wall and pick the ones that stick to run on.

A hundred years ago Indiana was completely run by the KKK in government until the leader was convicted rape,torture, cannibalism and murder.

The age old practice of fascism is a foundation of human nature, sadism and pathology. This will continue to be a force of destruction unless we recognize it in all its forms and strengthen democracy.
As democracy grows weak Nazism, as expressed in our recent history, grows strong.

Joe, your ability to see this is quite subdued. You even seem to think Lindbergh was a great American patriot.



The whole email thing is just another pair of dirty underwear that stuck to the wall. As it dries I expect it will soon fall off   the wall.


Bonus points for naming the politician who coined the underwear sticking phrase.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's emails again, and again,...
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 06 Nov 16 - 05:29 PM

Comey affirms there's no there there.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's emails again, and again,...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Nov 16 - 05:36 PM

"... convicted of rape,torture, cannibalism and murder." I don't imagine that would have put off the more enthusiastic Trump supporters
............

And now I see the FBI have announced had a quick shufty through this extra batch of emails. And there is no evidence whatsoever of any criminality.

Push the reboot button...

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's emails again, and again,...
From: DMcG
Date: 06 Nov 16 - 06:43 PM

Nothing in the new emails? Just as well that's been clarified. - we wouldn't want anything misleading to influence how anyone votes/voted, would we?

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's emails again, and again,...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Nov 16 - 07:27 PM

Early voting is a pretty stupid idea really.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's emails again, and again,...
From: Greg F.
Date: 06 Nov 16 - 09:07 PM

The FBI have announced had a quick shufty through this extra batch of emails. And there is no evidence whatsoever of any criminality.

Yeah Comey is one stupid fu**er - but that won't have any effect on BeardedBozo or the rest of the Trumpist brain-dead.

Kevin, re: Early Voting- if folks didn't know what an obnoxious and worthless piece of shit Trump was three months ago more recent revelations won't make a damn's worth of difference.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's emails again, and again,...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Nov 16 - 09:37 PM

There might be early voters put off voting for Clinton by this stuff. Even if they weren't unhinged enough to go for Trump they might have voted for one of the others. Election day is meant to be the day people decide.

If Clinton doesn't get in it won't just be the Trump voters who enabled him to win, just like with Gore and Bush.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's emails again, and again,...
From: Joe Offer
Date: 07 Nov 16 - 01:55 AM

Donuel says: You even seem to think Lindbergh was a great American patriot.

I wonder how Donuel draws THAT conclusion. Maybe because I didn't demonize Lindbergh? No Donuel, I don't buy into many of your theories, I guess. I try to see the good side of people, and I don't often see conspiracies. I figure most people don't have good reason to do the awful things people suspect they do.

But no, I wouldn't put Lindbergh on my list of Great American Patriots. He was a good pilot, no doubt.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's emails again, and again,...
From: akenaton
Date: 07 Nov 16 - 04:59 AM

US politics are a disgrace.....one good thing will have come of this charade regardless of who "wins"......American politics will never be the same again.

I think we will see proper representation for the American people through a new mainstream Party which will campaign for transparency in what is obviously an extremely corrupt system which works only in the interests of the Corporate Class.
That the "left" aligned themselves behind someone like Mrs Clinton is almost surreal.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's emails again, and again,...
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Nov 16 - 08:16 AM

McGrath, that was so wry it started mu day with good laugh.

Joe, I like my Nazis afraid to come out of the woodwork and keep their heads down. This election has brought them to the forefront.
Like autism the Nazi spectrum can be subtle to deadly.
I give you a 2% on the Reich scale and I give Lucky Lindy a 35%

How could you possibly share my opinion regarding Nazis

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's emails again, and again,...
From: beardedbruce
Date: 07 Nov 16 - 10:24 AM

sorry, Vashta Nerada.

What I have stated is not a lie, regardless of your saying WITHOUT ANY JUSTIFICATION OR FACTUAL BASIS that it is.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's emails again, and again,...
From: Greg F.
Date: 07 Nov 16 - 11:10 AM

...your saying WITHOUT ANY JUSTIFICATION OR FACTUAL BASIS that it is.

As opposed, I suppose, Beardie, to your saying WITHOUT ANY JUSTIFICATION OR FACTUAL BASIS that it is not.

Jesus wept.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's emails again, and again,...
From: Charmion
Date: 07 Nov 16 - 11:11 AM

I completely agree with Joe Offer's assessment of the e-mail thing, and for the same reasons -- extensive experience with real-life government security work and the electronic tools people are expected to use when doing it. The classified "high side" Internet has its benefits, but it is not portable; users have to be in a restricted area to get at it. As Secretary of State, Mrs Clinton seemed to spend most of her life on the road, and could hardly carry a SCIF around with her.

The need for constant access to classified communications is one of the primary reasons why a task force commander of today sits in the Tactical Operations Centre, and not in the van of the assault force.

More to the point, I have never seen any indication that, through her use of a private server, Mrs Clinton divulged operationally sensitive information to any unauthorized person, let alone an adversary, or that said use contributed to any identifiable injury to the United States -- even the Benghazi attack. Consequently, she could not be charged with anything more serious than a "security violation" (i.e., an error of procedure). To prove treason, even in a Trump court, it would be necessary to produce evidence of harmful intent, and that, too, is missing.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's emails again, and again,...
From: Joe Offer
Date: 07 Nov 16 - 11:21 AM

Exactly, Charmion.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's emails again, and again,...
From: beardedbruce
Date: 07 Nov 16 - 11:27 AM

GregtrF,

So, HOW MANY YEARS were you handling classified information?

What positions of responsibility dealing with classified information have you ever been in?
What training in dealing with classified information have you ever had?


I have stated previously MY answers to these questions. I await your's, or your admission that, besides being a proven liar and racist, you have no idea what you are talking about.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's emails again, and again,...
From: Greg F.
Date: 07 Nov 16 - 11:32 AM

Here's one of Donuel's "theories" you might want to buy into, Joe: Trump sure has energized and legitimized the Cockroaches

If that doesn't worry you, it should.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's emails again, and again,...
From: Greg F.
Date: 07 Nov 16 - 11:48 AM

Ah, but you see Beardie, your answers to your own inane, self-serving "questions" have bugger-all to do with anything.

The difficulty - as many others here besides myself realize and point out is that you can't tell fact from fiction.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's emails again, and again,...
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 07 Nov 16 - 11:52 AM

Bearded Bruce said: "IF this was a nation of laws, and the DOJ treated her as if she was any other citizen of this country, she would not be eligible to run for president, or any other public office."

Vashta Nerada replied: "Now THAT is an outright lie. All of it. And you know it, yet you continue to press your bigotted lies and suggest a conversation can be had with you."

Bearded Bruce replied: "sorry, Vashta Nerada. What I have stated is not a lie, regardless of your saying WITHOUT ANY JUSTIFICATION OR FACTUAL BASIS that it is.


Well, Bearded Bruce, here's the "FACTUAL BASIS" to which you refer: Click here. There is absolutely no prohibition against anyone running for federal elected office regardless of criminal history. The only requirements are of age, citizenship and residency.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's emails again, and again,...
From: beardedbruce
Date: 07 Nov 16 - 11:57 AM

So, GregtrF,

You have no basis for your statements, you have proven previously BY YOUR POSTS that you lie, and you have been shown BY YOUR POSTS to be a racist.

PERFECT poster boy for the Liberal Cause!

The rest of you here on Mudcat must be so proud of yourselves, and who you associate with.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's emails again, and again,...
From: beardedbruce
Date: 07 Nov 16 - 11:59 AM

Bee-dubya_ell,

Section 4 - Disqualification

The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.

OK, she can run, be elected and than "SHALL be removed from office".

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's emails again, and again,...
From: beardedbruce
Date: 07 Nov 16 - 12:01 PM

http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#Article1

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's emails again, and again,...
From: Greg F.
Date: 07 Nov 16 - 12:02 PM

Beardie - take your meds.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's emails again, and again,...
From: beardedbruce
Date: 07 Nov 16 - 12:05 PM

GregtrF,- Go back into your cesspool.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's emails again, and again,...
From: Greg F.
Date: 07 Nov 16 - 12:06 PM

I think you meant Article 2.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's emails again, and again,...
From: beardedbruce
Date: 07 Nov 16 - 03:43 PM

GregtrF,

So, HOW MANY YEARS were you handling classified information?

What positions of responsibility dealing with classified information have you ever been in?
What training in dealing with classified information have you ever had?


I have stated previously MY answers to these questions. I await your's, or your admission that, besides being a proven liar and racist, you have no idea what you are talking about.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's emails again, and again,...
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Nov 16 - 06:00 PM

We may be democrats or republicans but we are all full of probiotics.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's emails again, and again,...
From: Greg F.
Date: 07 Nov 16 - 06:10 PM

BEARDIE: In RE: Yours 07 Nov 16 - 03:43 PM please see 07 Nov 16 - 11:48 AM.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's emails again, and again,...
From: beardedbruce
Date: 08 Nov 16 - 08:44 AM

GregtrF: In RE: Yours 07 Nov 16 - 06:10 PM please see 07 Nov 16 - 11:57 AM


So you have nothing to say, yet continue to post...

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's emails again, and again,...
From: beardedbruce
Date: 08 Nov 16 - 08:45 AM

CORRECTION:

So you have nothing to say, and no basis to say it, yet continue to post...

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's emails again, and again,...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Nov 16 - 09:14 AM

Not the only one perhaps.