Martin Carthy - general discussion

Subject: Martin Carthy
From: Ed Pellow
Date: 11 Dec 99 - 01:15 PM

As we approach the millennium, lots of charts are appearing: the most influential singer, the best dulcimer player, the best 'blues' guitarist, and so on.

Mutcat is not adverse to such speculation.

If we're going to engage in such idle speculation, let's celebrate Martin Carthy.

This may sound somewhat off the wall, but if it wasn't for Martin, folk music as we know today, would be very different. If it wasn't for Martin, mudcat may not exist.

Ed

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy
From: Micca
Date: 11 Dec 99 - 02:17 PM

How very true and one of the nicest most modest people you could ever meet( or hope to) and with a talent of such dimension that would produce excessive head swelling in most lesser mortals, and I'm sure that his singing of "Byker Hill" is an intrinsic part of most of our personal histories of Folk music. Good Thread and a first class idea. "All honour and praise on he who would deserve it" and ( I say with a certain glee) would be Massively embarrassed by the attention.

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy
From: Joe Offer
Date: 11 Dec 99 - 02:18 PM

Hi, Ed - I'm in California, probably half a world away from you. Would I agree with your speculation that without Martin Carthy, there wouldn't be a Mudcat? Probably not, but I'm looking from a U.S. perspective.
Until about a year ago, I knew the name Martin Carthy, but was only vaguely familiar with his music. Then Ian HP mailed me a tape. That led me to buy three Carthy CD's and one from the Watersons (think of that, you who question the morality of dubbing tapes). I'll bet you'd say that Martin Carthy has made some of the most important recordings in folk music, and I just might agree with you on that. His recordings make for wonderful listening. It may be heresy to say this here, but sometimes listening to traditional music can get a bit tedious - you have to concentrate too darn hard. Not so with Martin Carthy. He makes traditional music come alive.
-Joe Offer, a recent Martin Carthy convert-

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy
From: Metchosin
Date: 11 Dec 99 - 04:13 PM

No doubt Carthy is superb, but if you are going to make a link with UK and American folk traditions, Lonnie Donegan in the 1950's, probably had the greatest impact on British popular and folk music, with his introduction of the works of Leadbelly and Woody Guthrie and the subsequent start of Skiffle bands. He got the UK looking at other sources besides their own and in 1977 did a recording of Rock Island Line with Rory Gallagher on guitar, on the Album Putting On the Style, that probably paved the way for Steeleye Span's use of the electric guitar in the folk song genre.

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy
From: Emmie
Date: 11 Dec 99 - 04:25 PM

Martin Carthy is fab!! That's all I have to say really. Oh yes and he taught Bob Dylan how to play some English folk tunes (allegedly should I say)

Emmie

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy
From: Ed Pellow
Date: 11 Dec 99 - 04:31 PM

Metchosin,

Lonnie Donegan obviously had a huge impact on British music. I would however suggest that his greatest impact was in terms of causing us to re-examine our own music.

The electrification of folk music was surely inspired by the Beatles, listened to by Dylan and The Byrds?

Besides, this is supposed to be a Carthy thread! I hate this much lauded 'thread creep'

Ed

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy
From: Willie-O
Date: 11 Dec 99 - 04:32 PM

There's quite a few can sing the old ballads, but only a very few like Martin Carthy actually inhabit them.

As an interpreter or narrator I mean, not as a character.

If you catch my drift.

Decent guitar player too.

Bill

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy
From: Barry Finn
Date: 11 Dec 99 - 05:05 PM

We've had this in another thread, don't recall the title though, something about the one who was most influencial in folk music during this century. The way I see it; Peter Kennedy, Seamus Ennis & Ewan Macoll who, with the help of Kennedy & Ennis tied up, brought out & exposed to the public to folk music of Ireland & the British Isles. And the one other who nicely wrapped together the whole show, Allen Lomax, all faults aside. Martin Carthy wouldn't had a starting point if it weren't for these others, neither would Peter Belamy, Lonnie Donegan, Bert Lloyd and, yes, Leadbelly. I'd say if you look at Sea Shanties in this century without a doubt Stan Hugill. Let the tomatoes fly, I'm ready. Barry

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy
From: Ed Pellow
Date: 11 Dec 99 - 05:08 PM

Whilst I love Martin's work for it's own sake, Micca's message pretty much says it all:

Having spent ages trying to find some hugely obsure recordings of 'Walter Pardon' (A Norfolk Folk Singer), I approached Martin at a gig, and explained the situation. He advised me as to the best place to locate them, but if I couldn't, to get back to him.

I couldn't find them, and within a week got a copy of the album, free of charge.

The loveliest thing is that, as Micca mentioned, he'd be hugely embarrased to read this.

Ed

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy
From: Llanfair
Date: 11 Dec 99 - 06:19 PM

Martin Carthy has been my hero since I first saw him perform in Manchester in the late 60's with Dave Swarbrick. I can understand the comment about the recorded music being by no means easy listening, because you have to see him perform to understand the depth of feeling and complexity of interpretation that is involved with each song. Really heavy stuff like "Prince Heathen" or "Long Lankin" performed by him has the entire audience spellbound--ans I use that word deliberately.
He's nor just a musician, he is a true performer. Hwyl, Bron.

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 11 Dec 99 - 07:22 PM

Hello all ,I remember the first time I started to work up 'The famous flower of serving men" I realized the magnitude of his work.. I wonder if he was a drummer in an earlier life... what an amazing sence of rythum ...I think when you get to a sertain level of greatness there is no need to worry about what the world would have been without them because they fill the space they are in with so much goodness that none of us can do without them wheather we know it or not..Martin Carthy has chaned the world of music by being in it.. Thoughs who have heard him play diferently because of it and so on and so on..I still say I want to hear Martin Carthy and Ry Cooder in the same room..How can we make that happen??? All my best to you all , Guy ...I'm off to hear my old friend Lui Collins doing her christmass concert Yayyyyy

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy
From: Matt
Date: 11 Dec 99 - 08:51 PM

Martin slew me with Molly Oxford and The Devil and the Feathery Wife. Whew! I later saw him at McCabe's during the break at a Pierre Bensusan concert, or was it his doppelganger?

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Dec 99 - 08:58 PM

First time I saw Martin Carthy sing in public was in a coffee bar (or was it a pub? In Hampstead anyway.) He's been booked as the guitarist entertainer, and was singing Battleship of Maine to about three people. I never hear that without thinking of him.

Martin's musical ability are only part of what makes him importance. He has influenced the way we think about the music, in the same way Pete Seegar has, and in the same direction. Mudcat thinking, I hope:

"The real importance of folk music is that it demonstrates how clever people can be. If you listen to folk music from around the world, you are listening to a distillation over thousands of years of people who, from nothing have arrived at some quite astonishing conclusions, and these make up an important part of a society's culture.

Folk music is not blind, it's not noble savage stuff, it's actually people thinking deeply and emotionally, and being able to articulate what they feel in music and dance.

Now that I have actually realised it, I am more and more in awe every single day at how smart people can be.

Saying that it is boring rubbish and finger in the ear stuff is wilful ignorance, and is an insult to the ingenuity and creativity of those ordinary people. That's how important it is."

(From Martin's introduction to "Martin Carthy - a guitar in folk music", published by New Punchbowl Music, a collection of 28 songs and tunes.

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy
From: Alan of Australia
Date: 11 Dec 99 - 09:23 PM

G'day,
I've seen him perform several times here in Oz. There's always a chance to meet him afterwards. Incredible. Always puts a lot of work into his arrangements & thoroughly researches the background to the songs. I found his guitar work a bit disappointing when I saw him in February compared to any of his earlier performances.

Cheers,
Alan

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy
From: Metchosin
Date: 11 Dec 99 - 10:23 PM

Ed , while I would agree that Bob Dylan and The Byrds were the first to electrify folk, no doubt inspired by the Beatles, the Beatles stated that Lonnie Donegan was their major influence and Lonnie Donegan was so taken with American blues that he changed his name to "Lonnie" in honour of bluesman Lonnie Johnson. Hence my reference to "link", when I probably should have clarified it as a full circle. I still stand by my statement that, UK folk music was still rather insular prior to Donegan, although through the past three or four of centuries, there has been a lot of one way importation by North Americans re shanties etal . Jazz and blues have been Black Americas gift to Europe, with their subsequent influences.
I do not mean to sound as if I am knocking Carthy, he is a stunning musician and I don't think I'm being prejudiced because of my Celtic roots and my love of that genre. However, to say that folk music wouldn't be what it is today because of him is a bit of a stretch for me. It's like saying opera wouldn't exist if it wasn't for Pavarotti.

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy
From: Alan of Australia
Date: 12 Dec 99 - 04:10 AM

Still, I think his influence & talent is so great that he HAS altered at least some of the directions folk music has taken. At least in Australia & England if not so much the other parts of the UK & the US.

Cheers,
Alan

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy
From: Ringer
Date: 12 Dec 99 - 07:23 AM

Llanfair, was that concert in Manchester at the Free Trade Hall? and was it billed as a Watersons' fairwell concert? and was Bert Jansch (sp?) supposed to have been on the bill but got delayed? and Carthy & Swarbrick happened to be in the audience and stepped into the breach? and did they do a WONDERFUL set?

If so, that was the first time I ever saw Martin Carthy

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy
From: bunkerhill
Date: 12 Dec 99 - 08:39 AM

After reading thread, must hear more Martin Carthy, and likely to start with call to NPR request line. What would be best song(s) to ask for as a Carthy sampler?

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy
From: Doctor John
Date: 12 Dec 99 - 09:18 AM

I agree with much that has been said: Martin Carthy is a brilliant interpreter of folk song (records the odd bit of rubbish though!), a brilliant guitarist and a really nice guy. But there are other "Martin Carthys": Nic Jones, Tony Rose etc. Martin Carthy started off as a skiffler as many pop singers did but switched to folk music instead. So I fully agree with Metchosin, Lonnie Donegan has had the biggest influence on folk music UK (perhaps USA too) this century. And there's only one Lonnie Donegan. Dr John

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy
From: lamarca
Date: 12 Dec 99 - 12:12 PM

Martin Carthy has always been one of my favorite singers and instrumentalists. I'd like to say I have all his recordings, but he has done music with so many different people and in different styles, that I know I'll never hear them all, let alone collect them. I admire his versatility and openness to trying different kinds of music, from doing a stark, unaccompanied traditional ballad, to hamming it up on electric guitar on "Tortoise From Hell" in the style of "Maltloaf" with the Mrs. Ackroyd Band. Every time I get annoyed by some of our local "purist snobs" who only want to hear one kind of music, I think of Martin Carthy, MBE, and how much poorer the world of music would be if he hadn't played with and enjoyed the wide range of music he's done over the years.

I've heard of but never heard Lonnie Donegan, though - what recordings by him are currently available? What do folks recommend by him?

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy
From: Llanfair
Date: 12 Dec 99 - 07:19 PM

Bald Eagle, it wasn't the Free Trade Hall, it was at a club called the MSG (Manchester Sports Guild) behind the cathedral. Jazz downstairs, Folk upstairs. I saw Carthy/Swarbrick there a few times in the late 60's, lots of other gigs, too. Did a couple myself.
They knocked the FTH down, you know. We used to go there from school to watch Barbarolli(sp) conduct the Halle orchestra. Hwyl, Bron.

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy
From: Lotusland
Date: 12 Dec 99 - 10:12 PM

Re: What songs to recommend to the NPRers: "Byker Hill" -- you'd have to be stone deaf not to be blown away by it. (He's a hard pitch to make to NPR, btw, they prefer to highlight Americans and when I worked there "folk" was a dirty word. Mountain Stage and Prairie Home Companion were aways described as "Variety" while Thistle was, of course, always "Celtic."

As far as Lonnie Donnegan, goes, his big hit was "Rock Island Line" and he was no Leadbelly (nor did he pretend to be). Donnegan's recordings sound very dated.

The Carth Rules!

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy
From: Metchosin
Date: 13 Dec 99 - 04:33 AM

Lotusland
and.........
Lost John
Wabash Cannonball
Cumberland Gap
Digging My Potatoes
Have a Drink on Me
My Old Man's a Dustman
Does your Chewing Gum Loose Its Flavour
Nobody Loves Like an Irishman
Yes, some of his recordings sound dated, some not, my God the man's almost 70 years old and first recorded Rock Island Line in England in 1954, but that doesn't diminish The King of Skiffles impact on British Folk and Rock Music and his influence on the Beatles and their subsequent impact on North America.

I don't mean to lead this thread away from Martin Carthy, I love the man's music, he can bring me to tears (and so does Richard Thompson) and he has had a huge impact on Celtic Music and a subsequent impact on present day folk music in general, but I am loathe to see Donegan's stellar contribution denegrated.

Lamarca
If you are interested in finding out more about Lonnie Donegan, go to http://www.sonicnet.com/artists/ai_bio.jhtml?ai_id=6168 I'm sorry I don't know how to do the blue clickety thing, but if anyone else can, please do. Some of his recordings are still available. I don't think the 1977 album Putting On the Style is, but I would gladly send you a copy. Some of the cuts on it are dog sh*t, despite the impressive list of contributers ( Rory Gallagher, wow!, Ringo Starr, Albert Lee, Brian May, Ronnie Wood, Leo Sayer, Elton John and others] but a few are stunning. There is also a more recent bootleg tape floating about of a Parlour Session of Donegan and Van Morrison.

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy
From: Ian Stephenson
Date: 13 Dec 99 - 04:45 AM

I met him on a train the other day. Saw his battered guitar case and went and said hello. Ian

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy
From: Roger the skiffler
Date: 13 Dec 99 - 05:59 AM

As you'd expect, I'm with Dr John on this. However, I wouldn't want to belittle Carthy but others: McColl, Ian Campbell, Corries, Spinners all brought folk home to wider UK audience.

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy
From: GeorgeH
Date: 13 Dec 99 - 07:15 AM

I can't see why anyone should cite Lonnie Donnegan as a significant impact on the present shape of folk music in the UK (ok, I do know the arguments behind that claim; I just don't agree with the conclusion drawn) I'm delighted to celebrate Carthy.

He, himself, would never exagerate his influence. And would certainly place himself in the "second wave" of the revival, behind Bert Lloyd, Ewan MacColl, etc (I was even more puzzled by the contributor who elevated MacColl above Lloyd in the chronology of UK folk). I've not met anyone more ready to acknowledge his sources, and to play down his own influence. Yet I agree with Ed - Carthy's position is unique, and distinct from others of the same generation who have been named here. Justly recognised by his MBE, which - typically - he takes as recognition of his music and his "roots" rather than as a purely personal honour.

But important to CELTIC music?? There must be some mistake!

G.

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy
From: InOBU
Date: 13 Dec 99 - 10:53 AM

A New Modest Proposal from another Anglo Irishman
No, I am not going to suggest we eat Martin Carthy, as my Brother in our odd little acendency might, but rather, that we not create a hirearchy of greatness and influence. I am the first to admit, Carthy has had a GREAT influence on my appreciation of traditional music, as has Ewan McColl, and for totally different reasons. In fact I hope we heep such praise on him that his modesty is well challenged, BUT, How bout someone starting a thread, of a non-hirearchical Mudcat Hall of Fame, in which we dont compare inflence, but honor each in their own unique place. In that hall of fame of equals, somewhat like saliors snug harbor, the seamans retirement home, where each is given the title captain, so all are equal in retirement, lets give each the roll of inovator, keeper of tradition and teacher to generations to come... and we can start the H of F with the already acknowleged here, Martin Carthy
All the best
Larry Otway

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 13 Dec 99 - 11:07 AM

It's great to hear whos behind who in line at the train staion...I'll be glad to go listen to them all... None of that has much to do with the music that inspires us... Thank you Martin Carthy for the inspiration you have been to me... My best to all, Guy

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 13 Dec 99 - 11:18 AM

Now you know why he was awarded the MBE.

LTS

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 13 Dec 99 - 11:39 AM

It all depends how far back one wants to go.(or how far back their current knowledge allows them) Any discussion of Carthy should include Davey Graham..cause that's where his guitar style came from. Pete Seeger found Donnegan's music insulting..but my guess is for every 1000 teens who eased into Rock from it at least one or two became serious folkies.
I follow these things pretty closely, but it was only 4 years ago that I discovered Bosie Sturdivant (after listening to a Joe Hickerson version of "Ain't No Grave..")
Rick

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy
From: Wolfgang
Date: 14 Dec 99 - 04:52 AM

I've more than a dozen of his LPs and CDs and never tire of listening to him.
He both keeps alive the tradition by digging out old song and adds to the tradition by changing tunes and words when he feels something isn't appropriate any longer. Think of how often he has put a new tune to a song, how often he has made one song out of two, how often he has given a song another ending (when he didn't like the traditional and) or a couple of new verses when he felt the old version couldn't be sung any longer. Whatever he has done he always has described it in his notes. I never have seen him rewrite an old song and 'forgetting' to mention that as has been popular with others.
He deserves the praise, the MBE, and a long thread.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy
From: aldus
Date: 14 Dec 99 - 08:21 AM

Wonderful choice. My vote certainly goes to Martin Carthy. He has been a favourite of mine for many years. Seeing him live in Truro a fwe years ago was the thrill of a lifetime for me. My vote for second place would go to June Tabor.

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy
From: Susan of DT
Date: 14 Dec 99 - 08:43 PM

Martin Carthy was certainly an influence on me. I got very interested in British folk music in the early 70's. One route was: John and Tony -> Young Tradition -> Waterson's -> Coppers. Then a friend played me a cut from a Steel Eyed Span record, saying "don't think about the arrangement, just listen to the words" - it was King Henry on their Below the Salt record. Then I discovered that Martin also sang alone or with Swarbrick without all the electric nonsense. The third path was Scottish: MacColl, Redpath, and Norman Kennedy. This thread started with Carthy being important to the existance of mudcat and if we say that mudcat is somewhat dependent on the digital tradition and that the digital tradition is somewhat dependent on me, then yes, Martin Carthy was part of my turning serious about folk music in general and British folk music in particular, which led to my collection, which led to the digital tradition, which led to mudcat.

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 14 Dec 99 - 10:24 PM

Yay,<><><><><><><><>Wolfgang , Aldus and Susan well said all! Wolfgang the next cd I do I will try to follow your lead and Martins on the liner notes.. All the Best Guy

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy
From: Alan Francis
Date: 30 Dec 99 - 07:13 AM

No Martin Carthy, no "Bob Dylan's Dream", no "Girl of the North Country", no "Scarborough Fair/Canticle", probably no Steeleye Span or Fairport Convention either (or certainly less interesting repertoires).

If not the guv'nor, definitely one of the guv'nors, and Liza carries the torch on.

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy
From: JenEllen
Date: 30 Dec 99 - 07:05 PM

I don't know about most influential, but the title couldn't be bestowed on a nicer fellow. He's done a lot of good solid work in renewing interest in older songs, done his lyrical homework as well. There's nothing objectionable in anything from Steeleye to Waterson:Carthy that would diminish his light. That, and his cover of Heartbreak Hotel made me laugh, cry, and laugh again. He's headed out here in February, and I can hardly wait. So what if the picking ain't what it used to be, who's is? We're guaranteed to have a lovely show, and I'll have to agree, he'd be dead embarassed to see any of this ;-) Elle

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Jun 10 - 12:40 PM

Martin Carthy has been an influence on most uk folk singers and performers in one way or another, he was very encouraging to me and appeared on my vinyl lp Cheating The Tide, contributing some lovely guitar work.Dick Miles

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy
From: breezy
Date: 15 Jun 10 - 05:23 PM

M C o.b.e

Appears this Friday 18th June 2010 at the Pumphouse Folk Club, Watford

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 09:55 AM

M C o.b.e

M C MBE would be more accurate.

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy
From: breezy
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 11:03 AM

O ! O h! I knew it was one or t'other.

So MBE is correct rather than 'more accurate'

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy
From: banjoman
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 06:51 AM

Well deserved accolades for Martin Carthy. I recall first seeing/hearing him on a television show back in the late 60's or early 70's along with other great names like Sydney Carter and Nadia Catouse. Listened to him ever since. Should be the Folk Scenes first Knight (Sir) ?

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy
From: GUEST,Graham Bradshaw
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 07:38 AM

Absolutely right. And Norma should be Dame.

Why is that the folk genre has none? The acting luvvies are awash with Sirs and Dames, and pop has its share - Sir Mick, Sir Paul, Sir Elton and Sir Cliff for starters. What about Jazz - was Johnny Dankworth one? As for classical, well there's loads.

Why not folk? People like Martin and Norma (and there are plenty of others) have been around long enough and done just as much for music as many of these others.

As for Sir Rallan (now Lord Sugar) - where will it end? Lord Carthy of Robin Hoods Bay has a nice ring to it, don't you think?

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 07:54 AM

So MBE is correct rather than 'more accurate'

Yes. Do you specialise in being a pillock?

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy
From: Gedi
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 08:06 AM

I have to say that Martin Carthy has been an enormous influence on me also. I can't say the same for Lonnie Donnegan in the sense of listening to his work and thinking 'Oh I really must learn that song'. Perhaps I missed something.

"Lord Carthy of Robin Hoods Bay" - there's a song there somewhere!!

Ged

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 18 Jun 10 - 06:05 AM

None in folk music ! that's cos we don't have ' luvvies ' in folk music.

Dave

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy
From: John P
Date: 18 Jun 10 - 10:08 AM

We used to call Martin Carthy "The Source". Some of the songs I've enjoyed playing that I learned from his albums:

May Song
Seige of Delhi
Sovay
The Two Magicians
The Maid and the Palmer
Brigg Fair
The Wife of the Soldier
Oor Hamlet
Geordie
The False Knight on the Road
Cold Haily Windy Night
The Bedmaking
Willie's Lady
The Wren
Billy Boy
The Bonny Lass of Anglesey

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Jun 10 - 10:13 AM

its quite intersting to compare Rufford Park Poachers, as sung and played by MC and as sung and played by NicJones, both very good, but very different

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy
From: Tim Chesterton
Date: 18 Sep 10 - 12:58 AM

I live in a northwestern Canadian city and have never had the good fortune to hear Martin Carthy live, but he is one of my great heroes. Unfortunately there probably wouldn't be the audience to bring him up here, but I hope to see him on a stage one day before too long.

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy
From: Anglo
Date: 18 Sep 10 - 03:08 AM

Well I recently shared a workshop stage with him and Norma in St Johns Newfoundland, and he was as ever the gentleman, and Norma the lady. And a great workshop it was too.

Sorry you can't get him in NW Canada.

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy - general discussion
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Sep 10 - 07:34 AM

well I had the pleasure of having him guest Guitar on my lp Cheating the Tide.He is a sensitive accompanist, a fine performer and a very pleasant helpful person

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy - general discussion
From: Desi C
Date: 18 Sep 10 - 07:41 AM

I met Martin at a folk club in Birmingham as a very nervous Acapella singer only weeks into my Folk career, he was so encouraging and helpful. Ten years later I opened a Folk club near Wolverhampton, I hadn't been in touch with him, but the first person through the door on opening night was Martin Carthey. A true Folk Gentleman. Dererves the Knighthood that Ewan McColl was denied

Desi C
Circle Folk Club
Coseley West Mid's
Every Wed night
WV14 9JH
Open Mic, showcases available
free admission

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy - general discussion
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 18 Sep 10 - 08:29 AM

"Dererves the Knighthood that Ewan McColl was denied"

I think Ewan would have refused any recognition from the 'Establishmnet'.

I am alone in being irritated by the common reference, usually in the press, to Waterson-Carthy as "Folks Royal family"? I make no assumptions about how W-C feel about the monarchy, or maybe I do, but one of the central features of their music is an egalitarian understanding of the songs and tunes they sing and play and the recognition that they have survived in the minds and on the tongues of ordinary people.

L in C#

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy - general discussion
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 18 Sep 10 - 08:45 AM

"Dererves the Knighthood that Ewan McColl was denied"

Ewan MacColl would have told the powers that be to go shove the ceremonial sword up the royal rectum!

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy - general discussion
From: Tim Chesterton
Date: 18 Sep 10 - 02:11 PM

From what I've heard of Martin and Norma they would be the last people on earth to want to be known as 'folk's royal family'. On the other hand, in a prevailing culture in which so often youth is worshipped and old people are assumed to be out of touch and to have nothing relevant to contribute to the discussion, I think the respect with which the folk music world treats its elder statesmen and stateswomen is an altogether admirable thing.

I know that Martin and Norma are themselves simply links in the chain that leads back through people like Ewan McColl and Bert Lloyd, Walter Pardon, the Coppers and back to the old country singers who shared their songs with Sharp and Hammond et al. But for many of us, Martin and Norma are the particular link that has touched us (in my case, sadly, only through their CDs) and inspired our love of the tradition. I'm happy to honour them for that.

(Incidentally, a few years ago I heard Kate Rusby and John McCusker described as 'the Posh and Becks of the folk music world'! I guess that accolade is no longer up to date!!!)

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy - general discussion
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 18 Sep 10 - 02:40 PM

All good points Tim but you have opened up a whole genre of who is/are the ......................... in folk music.

Who is the Terry Wogan, Chris Evans, Richard & Judy ............

L in C#