A Different Kind Of Folk Song

Subject: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: GUEST,Mathew
Date: 12 Dec 16 - 06:14 AM

Hello fine people,


My friends and I have embarked on a project that blends folk music and instruments with a more psychedelic sound. This music is great (we think) for drugs, psychedelic and otherwise, as well as relaxing. Please give this a chance if this sounds good to you.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gikc86n-23w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qj9XAw9rpdc

Let me know what you fine people think of this stuff. (the recording will tighten up, this was an early trial)


With great affection,

Mathew

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: Leadfingers
Date: 12 Dec 16 - 08:01 AM

Not for me thank you

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 12 Dec 16 - 08:16 AM

drugs are for people who can't handle reality.

Dave H

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: GUEST,Mathew
Date: 12 Dec 16 - 08:26 AM

Didnt ask for your opinion on drugs dave, as I don't care. You sound like an invariably boring and singular human being. Cheers

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: Will Fly
Date: 12 Dec 16 - 09:06 AM

Hey Mathew - Dave is one of the "fine people" you're inviting comments from on this forum, supposedly "with affection". He's also a fine musician who's expressed an honest opinion.

If you don't really want straightforward comments on your music and videos - and about the purpose of them - from members of a music forum, then don't post your stuff on that forum. If you invite criticism then you'll get it - positive and negative. That's the way it goes.

I was going to offer a polite opinion on the videos but, as it seems to annoy you, let me offer an impolite one instead. They remind me of some of the drug-influenced stuff I used to see here and there in the 1960s - self indulgent crap. Just my two cents-worth you understand.

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Dec 16 - 09:19 AM

I was looking for comments on the video and the song, how does one man's opinion about drugs fit into that?

I just didn't want this thread to turn into a debate on the merits of drugs.

I appreciate the feedback, as it was about the music and the video.


Cheers, and please keep it about the music. Leave your morality aside please.

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: GUEST,Mathew
Date: 12 Dec 16 - 09:21 AM

I don't see how "drugs are for people who can't handle reality" is a straightforward feedback about the videos or the songs, so I'm not sure how you can make that point.

Also offering a negative opinion because you didn't like me enough to offer a good one seems incredibly disingenuous and makes me question any piece of feedback you have given on this forum.


Cheers :)

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Dec 16 - 09:23 AM

One more thing, Leadfingers comment was completely appreciated. He was straightforward and honest. He ALSO didnt bring his politics into it.

I also take the bit about the 1960's drug stuff as a compliment, even though it wasn't meant as such. Thanks for the feedback :)

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: Will Fly
Date: 12 Dec 16 - 09:57 AM

Don't be naive, Mathew. If you offer up for criticism music which you think is great for drugs, psychedelic and otherwise, as well as relaxing, then don't be surprised if someone pops up and questions that. If you state explicitly that the purpose of the music is for "X", then accept that some people will disagree with "X" if it's an inherent part of the whole.

And whoever said I didn't like you enough? I know nothing about you except for the fact that you instantly took offence at Dave offering an opinion on drugs - You sound like an invariably boring and singular human being is not polite either. You could have just accepted his comment, which was not "political" by the way, just an honest opinion, and let it slip past you.

My comment on your music would actually have been no different either way, I can assure you. Take it how you will.

Best of luck with the music.

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: Rumncoke
Date: 12 Dec 16 - 11:07 AM

I did not find it at all relaxing - but I only listened for a short while, life is too short to waste time listening to ugly music.

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: leeneia
Date: 12 Dec 16 - 11:17 AM

Hello, Matthew
I had time to listen to "Drunker than Me" while my toast toasted this morning. I like the interweaving of the high mandolin and low guitar parts. The guitar fooled me into thinking that there was a folk drum going at one time.   It is interesting music, but I was disappointed that it didn't change any over the course of the piece.

I couldn't understand any lyrics. I suspect that's part of the tradition.

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: leeneia
Date: 12 Dec 16 - 11:55 AM

I just listened to the second one, post-toast. Again and interesting concept, but needs to change over the course of the tune. I wish I could listen to music like yours in restaurants instead of junk.

Your drumhead seems to be too wet. I had the same problem myself yesterday. A mass of cold, moist air moved in from the Pacific Northwest, and drum heads soaked up humidity and turned floppy. Fortunately I have a drum made by Meinl which I can tighten with a special wrench.   I

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Dec 16 - 11:59 AM

I just listened whilst checking emails and occasionally glancing at the stoner camping videos...

Pleasant enough without being too insipid background music..

Vaguely reminiscent of 1980s indie post new wave
Your sound is too acoustic and wispy for my interests..
I'm into drones and trancy music, but am more in tune with harder edged sounds..

Back in my teens in the 70s I was in a [regionally notorious] druggie punk hippy band - mashing sounds of teen aggression with heavy Gong & Steve Hillage influences..

As for the drugs.. I grew up and packed it in in my early to mid 20s when the panic attacks and paranoia became too overbearing and stripping all the fun away..
.. plus it was impossible to study for a degree when locked into reading the same paragraph over and over for hours unable to move on or put the book down..

.. and you will fuck your lungs up big time..
and most probably your memory...

It might be fun now but wait until you feel what it's like to inhabit the body and brain
of those burnt out older stoners you might at this moment regard as respected veterans and legends... 😜

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Dec 16 - 12:29 PM

I thought I was stuck in a lift

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: The Sandman
Date: 12 Dec 16 - 12:39 PM

I found it marginally worse than Cliff Richard, AT LEAST I CAN UNDERSTAND HIS LYRICS EVEN IF THEY ARE BANAL.the diction is not clear enough for me to understand the lyrics

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: The Sandman
Date: 12 Dec 16 - 01:32 PM

My next piece of advice is to give up smoking of any kind, if you must, eat cannabis rather than smoke it., at least you will not damage your lungs,
you are a silly young fool if you think otherwise, being good at something is not just about talent it also requires work. the video is badly mixed, the vocals should be further forward, and understandable

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: GUEST,Mathew
Date: 12 Dec 16 - 02:27 PM

Thanks for the feedback everyone.

It is much appreciated :)

(For the record I dont usually smoke cannabis, vapourizing is much healthier)

What is meant by moving the vocals forward? I'm new at recording and this is all practice for me.

The points about switching things up are well taken. This was meant to be a trial run and I am excited to make more.

The wonders of modern technology, a single person can create so much.

Cheers my friends,

Mathew

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Dec 16 - 03:07 PM

Dick is picking up on the reverb drenched vocals, which are clearly your 'creative' choice.. but not so easy to pull off effectively in a mix..

I'd like to point you towards specific tracks from previous bands who employed the dreamy vocals stylistic effect..
so you can learn from their template
but unfortunately my memory is fucked these days...

I wont swear I recall correctly.. but maybe the Cocteau Twins & Stone Roses for notable Brit indie ambient vocal sounds..???

Though I definitely remember [Minnesota]USA band Low as being droning & spaced out there in reverb...

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: GUEST,cnd
Date: 12 Dec 16 - 03:30 PM

To me it seems like the songs are going 5 directions at once.

I don't get high, so maybe I'm not a good person to evaluate druggy music, but that's just my two cents

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: GUEST,Mathew
Date: 12 Dec 16 - 06:41 PM

Thanks for the input I'll check them out!

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: Brakn
Date: 12 Dec 16 - 07:02 PM

lol

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 12 Dec 16 - 07:11 PM

It's interesting Mathew but I think I'm a bit to sober & old to appreciate it.
;-) I can't do 'young' again but send me a half bottle of whisky & a couple of cigars and I'll put these on a loop and give them another listen.



If there are lyrics in a song I like them to be clear and tell an interesting story.
If there is no story I like the instrumental (or a voice singing 'la'or'mmm') to be really well rehearsed and proficient.
And, as mentioned above, some sort of development of the tune or mood.

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: GUEST,lou Judson
Date: 13 Dec 16 - 03:31 AM

I did not check out the songs because they were not a clickable link, then I read some of the posts and am no longer interested. I was 17 in 1967 and did all the drugs and had the best drug music ever! I still have and listen to that music (like Beatles anyone?) and not interested in young people's drugs any more than I was into punk, disco or rap in their day.

white rabbit drug music

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 13 Dec 16 - 04:16 AM

Didn't do much for me I'm afraid.

I'm relatively old but have kept up with the current "younger" music scene to a much greater extent than most of my contemporaries. I like some beat-boxing, for instance(so don't think it's essential for vocals to contain legible words!), and a lot of current indie rock. Among the more "long-established" indie bands I like are Arcade Fire (so not really new, as they've been going 15 years....can't actually believe it). Newer bands I like include The Gravity Drive and Bon Iver.

Having listened to your tracks, as some of the others have said, it sounds very retro (but not in a good way). A lot like some of the stuff people who weren't very musical to start with might have come out with at stoned jam sessions around a campfire at 2am in 1970....virtually unlistenable to by 3rd parties who weren't part of the group of stoned players/ singers.

I'm not one to be at all rigid about what constitutes "folk" music, "new" or otherwise, either (unlike some people who post here). But this ain't it!

I'd spend some time practicing your instruments and if music to be stoned to is your goal, listen to a bit of Ozric Tentacles or Explosions In The Sky for some inspiration. Example:

EIS - Song For Our Fathers

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: GUEST,Hank the Yank
Date: 13 Dec 16 - 04:39 AM

I like it man, its not bad for a first attempt!

I don't think you necessarily need to switch it up (Many trad folk songs are the same riff over and over and over again)

Keep at it, don't let some of these old fogies get you down. I think much of what we are seeing here is generational.

I will say though to check the white balance on your camera while capturing video, it will go a long way when editing later on.

And of course, remember to never edit or drive while high, which I'm sure you already know.

Good stuff.

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Dec 16 - 06:52 AM

nothing to do with generational, the lyrics are unclear and the vocals should be louder than the instrumentation, you have made a big mistake lighting up a joint while on video[ really uncool] and posting on to a social media site[ you dont know who the feck is watching], perhaps cannabis is legal where you live, but it will not get you any work.[which i presume is part of the reason for making the video.

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: GUEST,Mathew
Date: 13 Dec 16 - 09:53 AM

I think that post demonstrates the generational difference.

Joints are really no big deal to most young people, many states and soon Canada will have it legalized. Social stigma against pot is rapidly going away.

I wonder why you are so against the lighting of a joint in a music video? Hamish Imlach has a whole concert where he has a cigarette hanging in his guitar head. Nobody bats an eye, despite the fact that cigarettes are proven to be vastly more harmful than pot.

I didn't want to have to lay that out for you, I wanted to keep this away from people's views on drugs and more about the music.

Schweik, you have made yourself clear and I think you repeating yourself any more is a tad redundant, though of course you are welcome to. I just believe you are probably a bit too old to understand the music or the social, societal and clinical reasons why people smoke pot.

Now please, unless you're going to be against booze and cigarettes as much as pot, please refrain from the anti drug comments. As I said before, I care very little for your politics.


Smoke a joint, Shweik, maybe you'll cheer up :)

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: GUEST,Mathew
Date: 13 Dec 16 - 09:54 AM

Another generational difference might be the fact that you think I am making this music to have a career or make money.

It is really just something I made for fun and for my friends. It's facetious music for lighthearted, youthful times.

I don't think I would want to get a job playing music anyhow, talk about mixing work and pleasure.


(This might be the generational gap as well)

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Dec 16 - 10:14 AM

I think it goes without saying that as this is a folk music forum, most of us have done drugs in our time,
and judging by the state of some regular posters.. at least a few of 'em still are...

But let's focus on druggie music..

Drug culture has informed some of the best, most mind expanding music for decades..

.. but playing and recording whilst off your face can result in some of the most dire tedious self indulgent shite ever to be inflicted on an audience's ears...

Getting the balance right: again I point to Gong and the Radio gnome pothead pixie saga LPs..

In the 70s they were inspirational, and excellent fun..

These days they are extremely dated and trite, but still inspirational, and excellent fun...

In more recent years the European Neo folk / Pagan Folk / Folk Metal bands explore hallucinogenic pathways,
encompass shamanistic dance music and mythology.. and are great fun... 😎

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: GUEST,Paul Lanoue
Date: 13 Dec 16 - 10:34 AM

This is great.

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: leeneia
Date: 13 Dec 16 - 10:58 AM

Mathew, you may have been told that marijuana is not serious, but it is. Marijuana hurts the mind and the body.

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Dec 16 - 11:12 AM

Drugs are bad for you.. in 1977 I swallowed a bag of mushrooms before going to a punk gig,
and pogo danced so violently throughout the night,
I woke up next afternoon with a thrombosed haemorrhoid.... 😬

..and the time our singer freaked out before going on stage and hallucinated he had lockjaw..
so he tried to sing our entire set with his mouth rigidly wide open..

That was an interesting performance....


... So yeah. kids and pensioners... don't do drugs !!!!!

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: Jeri
Date: 13 Dec 16 - 11:13 AM

Yeah, go watch "Refer Madness" and everything will be clear. ;)

I like good lyrics, and I can't understand that. If not the lyrics, I like a song to be musically interesting, and your recordings, for the most part, are repetitive. "Camping in the Clouds" is a little better.

The problem I have is that these videos seem to be by and for people whose lives are focused on smoking shit. If that's the only audience you want, fine. It sounds addict-obsessive. Personally, I find shifting things to be about expanding the mind, and looking for enlightenment to be interesting. One thing is about consciousness, and the other's about lack of consciousness.

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Dec 16 - 11:16 AM

you feckin eejit i was smoking joints long before you were born, i survived, and got back to concentrating on music, a good few of my friends are dead, eejits like you, cop on, as a matter of fact i dont particularly approve of imlach with a cigarette, smoking anything is bad, particularly if you are a singer.
I have nothing against the use of marijuana as a tincture for medicinal purposes ,i have nothing against people growing it for their own use[ i exclude skunk]
i am in favour of legalsing all drugs including heroin, that does not mean that i think immature idiots like yourself do yourselves any favours by lighting up a joint on a video.
neither do i think idiots like you, who seem to think its clever to do what some of us did 50 years ago, and think they are shocking anyone by lighting up a joint on a video, you are not you are just silly and bringly old hat

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 13 Dec 16 - 12:28 PM

Mathew: Another generational difference might be the fact that you think I am making this music to have a career or make money.

It is really just something I made for fun and for my friends. It's facetious music for lighthearted, youthful times.

If that's aimed at my comments, then no, I don't think you're making the music to have a career or make money. Perhaps you think I meant that because I suggested that you did a bit of practice and listened to some other "music to be stoned to" for a bit of inspiration?

That wasn't the case. I also said: A lot like some of the stuff people who weren't very musical to start with might have come out with at stoned jam sessions around a campfire at 2am in 1970....virtually unlistenable to by 3rd parties who weren't part of the group of stoned players/ singers.

Fun and facetious music is fine but even if my teenage self had been there and stoned along with you, I'd have found it unlistenable as it stands. Why post the link and specifically ask for critiques if all you're really looking for is validation of your "youthful light-heartedness"? Great, have a bit of a laugh while you're stoned....but accept that unless you were there at the time and part of it, to most people listening/ viewing second-hand, it's going to sound fairly crap, tbh.

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Dec 16 - 01:03 PM

I play music for fun too, but i have respect for musical performance, so i practise and i perform it when i am not stoned or pissed, then it is more enjoyable and good fun because i can make a good job of it and i am satisfied with the result.
of course it is possible and many people do this do it for a career and do it for fun. Martin Carthy springs to mind

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Dec 16 - 01:05 PM

I like primitive Grateful Penguin Café music like this.
of course it would be something else entirely after a week in studio.

No worries, have fun.

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: GUEST,Captainswing
Date: 14 Dec 16 - 05:43 PM

Your lack of tightness and musical competence is not an issue for me. I tend to prefer music with a more organic approach.

However, the biggest mistake you have made is in being utterly boring.

I tried but couldn't listen for more than 50% of either video.

Don't give up the day jobs lads!

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: leeneia
Date: 15 Dec 16 - 05:56 AM

No, it's not utterly boring.

I have listened to far too many modern recordings in restaurants, in stores and airports. Mathew's music is more interesting than any of that.

I personally think he needs to develop more variety, but that's because I have years of exposure to classical music and choral music, where themes are presented, developed or minimized in the course of a composition. If Mathew's been listening only to popular music, he has had almost no exposure to that.

Whatever - his music is not utterly boring.

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Dec 16 - 11:02 AM

it needs improvement though, a more proffessional approach.
1.more varied subject matter for songs.
2. better mixing of voice and instruments.
3. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO JUDGE LYRICS AND HOW GOOD THE SONGS WERE, because they lyrics are NOT CLEAR .
PERHAPS HE COULD PROVIDE A LYRIC SHEET

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: GUEST,big al whittle
Date: 15 Dec 16 - 11:05 AM

well bearing in mind the last time i had a successful record the Berlin wall looked like a solid certainty, i'd say this.

the videos don't do much for you. you'd be better choosing a nice picture or a even better some sort of abstract pattern that changes constantly. predictable maybe - but like i say snaps of your camping holiday are of limited interest. as the Albert Grossman character in Lewin Davis says - i don't see a lot of money there.

as macrobiotic trance music its okay in concept - but all those guys are fiends for sound quality and clarity and you need to think maybe of sharpening that side up. spend some time making sound samples and choosing the most dramatic and compelling.

all that said. i know i don't know about much.

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: GUEST,big al whittle
Date: 15 Dec 16 - 11:06 AM

at least you're not writing about the first world war. well done!

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: GUEST,pauperback
Date: 15 Dec 16 - 03:46 PM

Two comments

If they're not talking about you
You're doing something wrong

(The British can be very helpful
(if taken with a grain of salt))

And - this

"As the Father hath loved me, I also have loved you. Abide in my love." - Jesus, John 15:9

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 15 Dec 16 - 06:45 PM

I'm not going to rush out for the CD but this is more the sort of thing I could imagine myself listening to :

Festive trippy sort of stuff from Will Pound - Jingle Bells

https://youtu.be/o5GUl574gv4

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: Jack Campin
Date: 15 Dec 16 - 08:10 PM

More festive trippy stuff from Douglas Leedy ("A Very Merry Electric Christmas to You", 1969):

God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Dec 16 - 08:33 PM

A Different Kind Of Folk Song?

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: Jack Campin
Date: 15 Dec 16 - 08:44 PM

at least you're not writing about the first world war.

Given the sound quality of the vocals, how could you tell?

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: GUEST,big al whittle
Date: 16 Dec 16 - 03:33 AM

well Jack it wasn't that
'I were fighting in't Battle of the Somme, me lads' bollocks.
that's what I meant.

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Dec 16 - 06:15 AM

speaking of new different subject matter for folk song..

Al.. you're just the bloke to pen a song about waiting in all day for an Amazon Logistics delivery that never arrives,
only to find it days later in yer wheelie bin.... the bastards.... 😠

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: GUEST,pauperback
Date: 16 Dec 16 - 06:40 AM

Wheelie bin = garbage can = this thread
And a tip-of-the-hat to Albion, well done