A Different Kind Of Folk Song

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 Dec 16 - 12:38 PM

Pete Seeger, a compassionate man and an example of a performer who always had respect for his audience and the music he played, also an entertainer of the highest skill

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: Jeri
Date: 21 Dec 16 - 10:26 AM

ISB at Woodstock Not garbled, not rambling. Of course I have no idea what state they were in when performing, but it fundamentally was about the music.

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: GUEST,pauperback
Date: 21 Dec 16 - 10:03 AM

"When I view the video it is with sadness for June Carter, he appears to be on amphetamines"

Ah, but Pete was so consoling.

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 Dec 16 - 06:21 AM

When I view the video it is with sadness for june carter, he appears to be on amphetamines.
Along list of musicians that have been destroyed by addiction to alcohol or drugs includes tubby hayes, alex campbell, brian jones, jimi hendrix,and many more, a complete waste.
my advice to any young musician is try and be able to say, I GAVE IT MY BEST EFFORT,try and think of yourself as a craftsman, and get satisfaction from a job well done. would anyone employ a plasterer or bricklayer who was too drunk or stoned to lay bricks in a straight line?

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: GUEST,pauperback
Date: 20 Dec 16 - 06:14 PM

"Does it make his performance better?"

"Dear God, if this soul is in a condition accessible to mercy, be thou gracious to it." 

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Dec 16 - 02:26 PM

"Subject: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: GUEST,Mathew - PM
Date: 12 Dec 16 - 06:14 AM

Hello fine people,


My friends and I have embarked on a project that blends folk music and instruments with a more psychedelic sound. This music is great (we think) for drugs, psychedelic and otherwise, as well as relaxing. Please give this a chance if this sounds good to you."
I have explained already how it can be improved. you respond by telling me to smoke a joint.
I do not think anyone on this forum is likely to be impressed with that response.

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Dec 16 - 01:48 PM

no, it does not.

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: Joe Offer
Date: 20 Dec 16 - 01:35 AM

Here's a video of Johnny Cash appearing on Pete Seeger's television show. It's clear that Johnny Cash is under the influence of something. Does it make his performance better?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQq0dw7rmtc

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: GUEST,Mathew
Date: 20 Dec 16 - 12:51 AM

This is exactly what I wanted guys, thank you very much :)

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: Jeri
Date: 19 Dec 16 - 12:11 PM

I also would appreciate understanding the lyrics.
It's not "psychedelic" which in my mind, comes from a search for enlightenment. People looking for themselves and looking for the magic by using psychoactive substance. More input, more awareness, more paying attention. It's a lot different than getting numb on alcohol and/or weed. You can make the kind of music that focuses on being gonzo stupid, but it has a limited audience and a limited shelf life. Mostly it's stuff you can play with friends while getting gonzo stupid, but it's like the stuff that's funny while you're stoned: nobody else is going to appreciate it much.

Too many people end up with the drugs being more important than the music, and I think the people in this thread who seem most offended are bothered by that.

The tunes have hooks, and the songs could likely be pretty good. Listen to Will Fly - he knows what he's talking about.

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Dec 16 - 11:53 AM

"although I did find the lyrics hard to make out."
exactly the criticism I made.
If you provided a lyric sheet, we might be able to judge the quality of song better.

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: gillymor
Date: 19 Dec 16 - 11:19 AM

I know from personal experience how drugs can distort your perception of the quality of the music you make. Way back in the 70's I played in a blues band and we would occasionally get high on weed or something stronger and turn on the reel to reel and jam out for hours then sample the playback and become convinced we had produced something brilliant only to listen to it in the sober light of the next day and hear something that was painful to listen to. I think some of that is going on here, Matthew, though I think you've got talent and could come up with something pretty good if you put in the work.

I still like to smoke pot occasionally to relax and to get a break from the aches and pains that come with aging but it tends to throws things out of whack for me when I'm playing music. If you're stoned all the time and used to it that might make for a different story.

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Dec 16 - 11:10 AM

I enjoyed it Matthew, although I did find the lyrics hard to make out. But, Good on you for going out and making your music your way. That is the point is it not, to make it your way. Best of luck to you.

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: Jeri
Date: 19 Dec 16 - 10:21 AM

To the entity that is/was Matthew, ignore the bitter old farts, disdainers and haters. They will always be around somewhere, jealous little monkeys gathering up their own shit to throw at any "outsiders". You asked for opinions, so you got the crap and helpful stuff all tossed at you at the same time.
My advice is to use what's helpful and duck the rest. Either ignore it or decide to devote your time to picking up monkey shit and throwing it back. Let THEM handle it.

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Dec 16 - 08:54 AM

"I havent seen any of you cats create your own music + music videos from scratch. From what I understand this kid put all of this together from his apartment bedroom or something."
   I have videos of my own music on you tube,my criticisms were of the balance of vocals to instruments, and not being able to hear lyrics, plus my personal opinion of the advisability of making a video smoking joints, which might give the wrong impression to festival organisers who are quite likely to be from an older generation.
I appreciate Mathews generosity of spirit, and I realise that he is not GUEST JOHN.

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Dec 16 - 06:10 AM

Thanks! I will definitely check it out.

And to respond to Mike, I know that this forum is mostly traditional folk, but other types of music make it through from time to time.

Bands like Steeleye Span, Fairport, Incredible String Band, are all obviously not trad folk, but they have elements of some of the things I was working with.

I know that many of you folks who were around during the folk scene probably made the transition to these bands when they were popular, so why not post something vaguely similar?

I didn't think you guys would be keen on it but I wasn't expecting such vitriol.

The criticisms in regards to the music were extremely welcome, as this project is a work in progress, but the attacks on my character, habits and lifestyle are, I believe, beneath you fine people.

I obviously leave out everyone who was kind AND respectful in their opinions and criticisms.

I hope you all have a Merry Christmas, especially to those who were the most negative in their dislike. :)

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: Will Fly
Date: 19 Dec 16 - 06:05 AM

And thanks for responding Mathew. I wasn't really offering tips - just droning on about my own own experiences over the years! But if you really want some tips then go to my website:

http://www.willflyguitar.com/

and contact me and I'll help as far as I can. I don't think the intervening 50 or so years will be an obstacle! :-)

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: GUEST,Mathew
Date: 19 Dec 16 - 05:58 AM

That was beautiful Will Fly, thanks for the tips!

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: Will Fly
Date: 19 Dec 16 - 05:49 AM

The question of age is a red herring. Some people grow old gracefully and some disgracefully; some stick with one kind of music all their lives and others are always on the lookout for something new and different; some people look for competent musical standards of performance and presentation and others are more willing to cut some slack. There are no rules here - everyone's different.

I've quoted my great-grannie from Kildare before on this forum, and I'll repeat her quote here: "Have what you will - and pay for it" was one of her frequent sayings, and it's a good one. As far as music fits into that, it means you can play exactly what you want to play, in any way you like, any time you like and for as long as you like. But - and here's the rub - the moment you lay it before the public - particularly on a music forum - and ask for comment, then you "pay for it". And because people are so diverse in their likes and dislikes and opinions, you'll get everything from a pat on the back to a kick in the balls, the public being what it is.

Over the years I've put up over 400 of my own videos on YouTube - everything from blues to ragtime to folk tunes to rock'n roll and jazz, plus dozens of instructional videos aimed at beginners - on guitar, tenor guitar and mandolin, with bits of bass and keyboards here and there. Most of the stuff I've done has had pats on the back, but there have been several occasions where someone's come along and planted one in the balls with a pretty shitty comment on the video. And - you know what? - that's just as it should be. The worst sin that can affect a musician is complacency, and a good dose of ice-cold criticism now and then makes you sit up, makes you think about what you're doing, makes you ask yourself what instigated that criticism. I got lots of that when I was a young musician starting off in clubs. I can recall doing floor spots in northern clubs and being told afterwards by the club organiser, in no uncertain terms, "not good enough - come back when you've improved". You don't get a lot of that these days. Whether you think that's a good thing or not is down to you.

I've spent a good deal of the last 40 years teaching guitar - to people of all ages - and try to be both constructive and critical. My website contains dozens of free transcriptions that I've created for guitar and tenor guitar - countless hours of work - and I spend a fair amount of time each day answering queries from people who need help. I don't ask their age. I just try and answer their questions. Sometimes I can help, sometimes I can't.

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: GUEST,Mark Bluemel
Date: 19 Dec 16 - 05:21 AM

The question that puzzles me is why the OP thought this was a good forum to post to. It's hard to see much relationship between what he and his friends are producing and any of the areas that this group normally discusses.

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Dec 16 - 04:02 AM

AS a soon to be 60 year old..

I think too many elder mudcatters are bitter spiteful old bastards..

they hate young people...

bunch of old losers who resent young folks fresh enthusiasm...

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: GUEST,Jeremy
Date: 19 Dec 16 - 01:59 AM

[quote]50 years from now someone will be watching YouTube scratching their noggin, wondering.[/quote]

I seriously doubt that anybody will be watching these videos 50 days, or even 50 hours from now, let alone 50 years.


its been more than 50 hours and people are still listening to it, so that makes you wrong, no?

I like this music, give the kid a break.


I havent seen any of you cats create your own music + music videos from scratch. From what I understand this kid put all of this together from his apartment bedroom or something.

Why are you folks so hostile against a lad who's just trying to make some music for his friends? All of us old folks don't have to be so grumpy, ya know.

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: Vic Smith
Date: 18 Dec 16 - 11:50 AM

Will Fly wrote
"We-e-ell, I saw the ISB lie on many occasions...."

You are exactly right, Mike. There are considerably fewer than 5000 Spirits and even fewer than 5000 Layers Of The Onion.... but wait a minute.... we know now that we are living in a post-truth society where crap videos can be considered worthwhile. Let's being back the Incredibles with their "economical with the truth" approach. They are the band for Trump's USA and for Brexiteers' UK.

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 Dec 16 - 02:28 PM

THIS IS WHAT IT IS ALL ABOUT IF MATTHEW WOULD COP ON,these guys did it for fun but they practised and had respect for music,thety didnt get up on stage pissed or stoned.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzFJysGyvGk

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 Dec 16 - 07:20 AM

yes murray, i prefer sam mcghee even if he was a tad cornyttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqPziZ5Zt10

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 16 Dec 16 - 08:24 PM

[quote]50 years from now someone will be watching YouTube scratching their noggin, wondering.[/quote]

I seriously doubt that anybody will be watching these videos 50 days, or even 50 hours from now, let alone 50 years.

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: GUEST,pauperback
Date: 16 Dec 16 - 07:52 PM

Get out of the cooler! Dude

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: GUEST,CJ
Date: 16 Dec 16 - 07:39 PM

I like it. The singing reminds me of Susan Boyle and the guitar playing of Martin Carthy or perhaps Julian Breem. The mandolin - was that Chris Thile? Sounds like him.

10/10 for me. I especially liked the fat bald guy with breasts.

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: GUEST,pauperback
Date: 16 Dec 16 - 07:03 PM

Re: drug use: Story time, my probation-era mom had full sized magazine ads of liquor bottles with sparse text in a scrapbook. Puzzled, I asked: why save these? The unsualliness after re-legalisation of a picture of a whiskey bottle (bong?) inspired the artist in her to save them so naive me could get the gist.

Today it's weed, and a local Newscaster had a perplexed look when reading a story about a local Bud-Fest instead of a local Bud-Bust.

50 years from now someone will be watching YouTube scratching their noggin, wondering.

These videos are a great cultural reference, so as they say Down Under: "reel in your neck"

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 16 Dec 16 - 04:32 PM

Matthew--I don't think you are just fooling around, otherwise, you wouldn't have made the recordings or the videos, and, also, you wouldn't have posted here for critiques. I think you may have gotten more than you bargained for, but the comments are honest, and from a variety of serious musicians and performers, so you've done well.

Mindful of what has gone before, I have a few comments.

First, on the drug thing. Drugs are not important. The thing is, for regular drug users, they become important--often more important than anything else. That doesn't work when you play music, because the music has to always come first.

All of us have known and worked with really talented people who let the drugs come first, and we've all seen it play out. The music always loses out.

Next, a general comment on music.Creating music requires focus, discipline, and patience.

In the King James Bible, Matthew 18:9 (get it?) Jesus says, King James Bible
"And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast [it] from thee".

He was talking specifically to folks who create, perform, and record music. He meant that you should go over your tracks with tweezers, pliers, or a stump remover and pull out all the stuff that isn't exactly right. Best twelve bars, as they say.

(As for the Bible verse, you're new here and probably don't know that we have a some Mudcatters who hate religion--it's mostly for them)

Now a comment on the videos--they don't serve the music at all.

And the music--some interesting stuff there, but you need to find a strong center and build around it, getting rid of everything that doesn't work or doesn't fit. The stuff you leave our is just as important as what's there.

Thanks for sharing...and never stop working on it.....

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: Will Fly
Date: 16 Dec 16 - 01:24 PM

We-e-ell, I saw the ISB lie on many occasions and bought most of their albums. Some of it certainly was pretentious (in my view), but a lot of it was imaginative - and certainly well recorded. I can still hear the voice of Robin Williamson swooping up on "October Song".

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Dec 16 - 11:52 AM

now now old fellas...

remember, i dont entirely dislike what this young pot head lad is attempting to do with his music.
Ive listened and liked far worse from singers & bands of all ages, from so many different genres, signed and unsigned to the big bad evil corporate music industry...

Cut the kid some slack for youthful enthusiasm, rebellious arrogance, and the positivity of unjaded inexperience... 😎


for a start.. just cast your minds back to how shite the much cherished incredible string band actually were in reality, way back in your swinging sixties psychedelic youth... 😜

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Dec 16 - 11:13 AM

but what are they writing about and is it a folk song, or a junk song for junkies

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: GUEST,pauperback
Date: 16 Dec 16 - 06:40 AM

Wheelie bin = garbage can = this thread
And a tip-of-the-hat to Albion, well done

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Dec 16 - 06:15 AM

speaking of new different subject matter for folk song..

Al.. you're just the bloke to pen a song about waiting in all day for an Amazon Logistics delivery that never arrives,
only to find it days later in yer wheelie bin.... the bastards.... 😠

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: GUEST,big al whittle
Date: 16 Dec 16 - 03:33 AM

well Jack it wasn't that
'I were fighting in't Battle of the Somme, me lads' bollocks.
that's what I meant.

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: Jack Campin
Date: 15 Dec 16 - 08:44 PM

at least you're not writing about the first world war.

Given the sound quality of the vocals, how could you tell?

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Dec 16 - 08:33 PM

A Different Kind Of Folk Song?

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: Jack Campin
Date: 15 Dec 16 - 08:10 PM

More festive trippy stuff from Douglas Leedy ("A Very Merry Electric Christmas to You", 1969):

God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 15 Dec 16 - 06:45 PM

I'm not going to rush out for the CD but this is more the sort of thing I could imagine myself listening to :

Festive trippy sort of stuff from Will Pound - Jingle Bells

https://youtu.be/o5GUl574gv4

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: GUEST,pauperback
Date: 15 Dec 16 - 03:46 PM

Two comments

If they're not talking about you
You're doing something wrong

(The British can be very helpful
(if taken with a grain of salt))

And - this

"As the Father hath loved me, I also have loved you. Abide in my love." - Jesus, John 15:9

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: GUEST,big al whittle
Date: 15 Dec 16 - 11:06 AM

at least you're not writing about the first world war. well done!

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: GUEST,big al whittle
Date: 15 Dec 16 - 11:05 AM

well bearing in mind the last time i had a successful record the Berlin wall looked like a solid certainty, i'd say this.

the videos don't do much for you. you'd be better choosing a nice picture or a even better some sort of abstract pattern that changes constantly. predictable maybe - but like i say snaps of your camping holiday are of limited interest. as the Albert Grossman character in Lewin Davis says - i don't see a lot of money there.

as macrobiotic trance music its okay in concept - but all those guys are fiends for sound quality and clarity and you need to think maybe of sharpening that side up. spend some time making sound samples and choosing the most dramatic and compelling.

all that said. i know i don't know about much.

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Dec 16 - 11:02 AM

it needs improvement though, a more proffessional approach.
1.more varied subject matter for songs.
2. better mixing of voice and instruments.
3. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO JUDGE LYRICS AND HOW GOOD THE SONGS WERE, because they lyrics are NOT CLEAR .
PERHAPS HE COULD PROVIDE A LYRIC SHEET

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: leeneia
Date: 15 Dec 16 - 05:56 AM

No, it's not utterly boring.

I have listened to far too many modern recordings in restaurants, in stores and airports. Mathew's music is more interesting than any of that.

I personally think he needs to develop more variety, but that's because I have years of exposure to classical music and choral music, where themes are presented, developed or minimized in the course of a composition. If Mathew's been listening only to popular music, he has had almost no exposure to that.

Whatever - his music is not utterly boring.

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: GUEST,Captainswing
Date: 14 Dec 16 - 05:43 PM

Your lack of tightness and musical competence is not an issue for me. I tend to prefer music with a more organic approach.

However, the biggest mistake you have made is in being utterly boring.

I tried but couldn't listen for more than 50% of either video.

Don't give up the day jobs lads!

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Dec 16 - 01:05 PM

I like primitive Grateful Penguin Café music like this.
of course it would be something else entirely after a week in studio.

No worries, have fun.

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Dec 16 - 01:03 PM

I play music for fun too, but i have respect for musical performance, so i practise and i perform it when i am not stoned or pissed, then it is more enjoyable and good fun because i can make a good job of it and i am satisfied with the result.
of course it is possible and many people do this do it for a career and do it for fun. Martin Carthy springs to mind

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 13 Dec 16 - 12:28 PM

Mathew: Another generational difference might be the fact that you think I am making this music to have a career or make money.

It is really just something I made for fun and for my friends. It's facetious music for lighthearted, youthful times.

If that's aimed at my comments, then no, I don't think you're making the music to have a career or make money. Perhaps you think I meant that because I suggested that you did a bit of practice and listened to some other "music to be stoned to" for a bit of inspiration?

That wasn't the case. I also said: A lot like some of the stuff people who weren't very musical to start with might have come out with at stoned jam sessions around a campfire at 2am in 1970....virtually unlistenable to by 3rd parties who weren't part of the group of stoned players/ singers.

Fun and facetious music is fine but even if my teenage self had been there and stoned along with you, I'd have found it unlistenable as it stands. Why post the link and specifically ask for critiques if all you're really looking for is validation of your "youthful light-heartedness"? Great, have a bit of a laugh while you're stoned....but accept that unless you were there at the time and part of it, to most people listening/ viewing second-hand, it's going to sound fairly crap, tbh.

Subject: RE: A Different Kind Of Folk Song
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Dec 16 - 11:16 AM

you feckin eejit i was smoking joints long before you were born, i survived, and got back to concentrating on music, a good few of my friends are dead, eejits like you, cop on, as a matter of fact i dont particularly approve of imlach with a cigarette, smoking anything is bad, particularly if you are a singer.
I have nothing against the use of marijuana as a tincture for medicinal purposes ,i have nothing against people growing it for their own use[ i exclude skunk]
i am in favour of legalsing all drugs including heroin, that does not mean that i think immature idiots like yourself do yourselves any favours by lighting up a joint on a video.
neither do i think idiots like you, who seem to think its clever to do what some of us did 50 years ago, and think they are shocking anyone by lighting up a joint on a video, you are not you are just silly and bringly old hat