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BS: Space program goals

Mr Red 15 Dec 16 - 04:31 AM
Iains 15 Dec 16 - 03:56 AM
Steve Shaw 14 Dec 16 - 08:53 PM
Rapparee 14 Dec 16 - 08:50 PM
Donuel 14 Dec 16 - 06:29 PM
Donuel 14 Dec 16 - 03:45 PM
beardedbruce 14 Dec 16 - 03:01 PM
beardedbruce 14 Dec 16 - 02:49 PM
Donuel 14 Dec 16 - 02:47 PM
Iains 14 Dec 16 - 02:42 PM
beardedbruce 14 Dec 16 - 02:14 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: Space program goals
From: Mr Red
Date: 15 Dec 16 - 04:31 AM

The effort to get to Mars with people is going to be a very expensive venture. The Newtonian reality is the energy needed to get peeps and supplies is never going away. And getting them back needs more energy.

Solving the problems of bone loss and muscle atrophy are not small projects. Once you get peeps to Mars could they stand up/walk and do anything useful? If the answer was yes it implies yet more bulk (and energy) to get it all there.

The profligacy here on Earth and global warming may make the will to expend that energy be very politically incorrect. Times and fashions will change when we can't feed the rise in population here.

I suspect that in our lifetime and that of our children, we will be sending machines only.

But if we did try to get people to Mars soon, can I nominate someone who will have little else to conquer when reality bites in 4 years time?


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Subject: RE: BS: Space program goals
From: Iains
Date: 15 Dec 16 - 03:56 AM

Steve the request was for a reasonable discussion. Are you having comprehension problems yet again?


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Subject: RE: BS: Space program goals
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Dec 16 - 08:53 PM

Some people have been watching too many disaster movies.


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Subject: RE: BS: Space program goals
From: Rapparee
Date: 14 Dec 16 - 08:50 PM

I'd like to see all of it happen. Nobody ever lost a dime from pure research.


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Subject: RE: BS: Space program goals
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Dec 16 - 06:29 PM

I have a mental picture of a dramatic day on Earth when a less than moon sized body struck the pacific area in a trajectory slightly east to west and up from the equator. BAM the collision sent more material up into orbit that the impact body. The heavier elements in the Earth came up as the molten crater filled in.

The ejecta made a bright fiery ring around the earth and settled down to several spherical bodies and finally into one called the moon. One side of the moon had heavier elements than the other which was subjected to less gravity. Only one size faces earth.

Back on Earth the heavier gold was sloshed up around the east side of the ring of fire. Some in shocked quartz and some all the way to the surface. The ring of fire may be a remnant of the smaller impact object. We have found the moon to be mostly light weight Earth stuff.

How long ago could this have happened? I dunno.

PS it also may have given the earth its seasonable wobble.


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Subject: RE: BS: Space program goals
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Dec 16 - 03:45 PM

You misunderstand, Gravity tractors can delay or speed up asteroids to miss Earth. Pure research that is not profit driven may enable needed discoveries like deflectors.

You are right, only rogue 'rocks' from another star or system would be risky.

In the way people still don't believe Albert that space can move faster than light, there is a way for black holes to produce/expel elemental matter but while photographed, it is still hypothetical.

Not even mining the moon of isotopes of Helium is not yet cost effective. Making a buck off space is a Trump mindset that sounds good while pure research is one of the harder things to sell to Congress.


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Subject: RE: BS: Space program goals
From: beardedbruce
Date: 14 Dec 16 - 03:01 PM

Donuel,

Sorry, any radioactive isotopes of gold would have decayed away, if they are not being produced in the solar system. Where do you think transmutation is happening?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isotopes_of_gold

Please note the half-lives- any trace amounts left after 4.5 to 5 billion years would not be a risk.

And we do not (yet) have gravity tractors of warp drives, in any deployable form. I have no problem working on them, but it would be nice to have some means of changing the orbits of bodies that would otherwise collide with the earth ASAP.


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Subject: RE: BS: Space program goals
From: beardedbruce
Date: 14 Dec 16 - 02:49 PM

Iains,

Agreed on all points. One of the worthwhile goals we SHOULD have been working on from 1970 onward. SKYWATCH ( to identify threats) was never fully funded, and should have been. Nothing has been done to deal with any possible threats ( sort of like Climate Change).


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Subject: RE: BS: Space program goals
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Dec 16 - 02:47 PM

If we are going to use gravity tractors we should launch them now.

Not everything in space is profitable, some asteroid gold may be highly radioactive.

The top of the list should be mass deflection (more than magnetic)

After that, warp drive.

Right now some of the best new toys to come are specialized telescopes from the UK. I want one.


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Subject: RE: BS: Space program goals
From: Iains
Date: 14 Dec 16 - 02:42 PM

If it gave the military industrial complex a series of essentially pacifist goals to strive for it would be no bad thing.

The US will build the first comprehensive system to defend Earth from hazardous asteroids and comets.
The risk of meteorite impacts has only recently had serious consideration from a few scientists and received little funding. Some argue the Younger Dryas cold period had it's genesis from an impact. Had the 1908 Tunguska event occurred over a major city the death toll would have been horrendous(700 sq miles of forest flattened by a bolide airburst.) The calculated size of tsunamis that could be generated by an oceanic impact is horrendous. Suffice it to say the destruction of coastal nuclear power stations would be one of the minor considerations in the aftermath.
Thus far it is a field of study seriously underfunded and suffering a lack of recognition. No doubt if a strike hit parliament it the funding issue would soon be solved.

For many it is a controversial subject and as yet is not mainstream.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_Impact_Working_Group


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Subject: BS: Space program goals
From: beardedbruce
Date: 14 Dec 16 - 02:14 PM

https://www.wired.com/2016/12/dear-president-trump-heres-make-space-great/

A fairly good piece on goals we should be pursuing in space. I agree with them generally. I have been trying to get the company I work for to start working on the infrastructure to support Lunar and Martian exploration ( supply ships and depots, communication and navigational satellites).

Can we have a reasonable discussion of this, please?


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