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Origins: Bachelor's Hall - clarification needed
DigiTrad:
BACHELOR'S HALL
In Mudcat MIDIs:
Bachelor's Hall
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Subject: LYR ADD: Bachelor's Hall From: jb3 Date: 15 Jun 98 - 02:04 AM This version is fairly different from the one in the data-base. I learned this song from my grandfather, Boone Burton, who learned it from the singing of his mother, Sally McQueary. They said of my great-grandmother that "she could sing all night and all day and never sing the same song twice." Unfortunately, the family now knows only a handful of her songs. ^^ Bachelor's Hall
The boys they all dress as fine as they can
And they will arise and to them say
And early next morning you will rise
And when you get home, you'll stagger and reel
A bachelor's life, I think it the best
And when a girl marries, her pleasures are done
If I was a man, I'd court not at all |
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Subject: RE: LYR ADD: Bachelor's Hall From: JB3 Date: 15 Jun 98 - 02:07 AM I should have mentioned that our family is from south central Kentucky. Plato, Ky. to be exact. |
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Subject: RE: LYR ADD: Bachelor's Hall From: Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca Date: 16 Jun 98 - 05:25 PM A version of this is sung in eastern Canada. I know an alternative version of one of the verses above:
Batchelor's Hall is always the best Always liked it, since I keep Batchelor's Hall myself. Messages from multiple threads combined. Messages below are from a new thread. |
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Subject: Lyr/Tune Add: BACHELOR'S HALL From: Lesley N. Date: 11 Dec 99 - 10:10 PM I have now run across at least three versions for BACHELOR'S HALL. There is a version in Digital Bachelor's Hall (though I am confused by the lines between the third and fourth verses - is it supposed to be a chorus, or is it a fragment?)
I also have a version by Jean Ritchie
Oh hard is my fortune and hard is my fate,
Click to playABC format: X:1
Steve Round's broadside index indicates Rev. Baring-Gould collected a version which began "To Bachelor's Hall we brave sportsmen invite.." Does anyone have additional words to BG's - is the Appalachian version related to it or is this just a popular theme??? (Charles Dibdin wrote a song called Bachelor's Hall as well - which wouldn't have any relation.) |
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Subject: RE: Bachelor's Hall - clarificaiton needed From: Bruce O. Date: 12 Dec 99 - 12:29 AM I don't have Baring-Gould's version, and hadn't looke for it in Steve Roud's broadside or folksong indexes. I hadn't seen Jean Ritchie's before. I have the one by Steeleye Span. I had thought the latter was an English song, but I haven't run across it in any English collection. I was stunned about 3 weeks ago when Dick Spottswood on WAMU played an American recording of it of c 1924. Note the first verse of Ritchie's is an imitation of the 1st verse of Henry Carey's "The Ladies Case", c 1730-32 How hard is the fortune of all womenkind,
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Subject: RE: Bachelor's Hall - clarificaiton needed From: Willie-O Date: 12 Dec 99 - 12:58 AM I learned it many years ago--I'm pretty sure from an Ed McCurdy record. very different version--only one verse similar, which goes: For Bachelor's Hall it is always the best. Thanks for the memory. I'll have to look up the rest. I took it as a Newfoundland song at the time. It didn't have the "hard is the fortune of all womankind" part which really doesn't seem to belong in this song, thematically. Bill C
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Subject: RE: Bachelor's Hall - clarificaiton needed From: Lesley N. Date: 12 Dec 99 - 01:19 AM Thanks Bruce! I'm glad it's nearly Christmas - I have a huge list of books..
I've always assumed BH was English, and have been surprised by the lack of information I've found. So I finally find some information - and it just confuses me!
I've done a bit more research. The other source in the broadside index was Garland of New Songs printed by Angus of Newcastle. It was a dead end until it finally occured to me the Bodleian might have something. According to the Bodly they printed 1774-1825 - and they have a ton of their broadsides. The first line is "To bachelor's hall we good fellows invite..." I'm not very good at the Bodley search yet - I went through the first thirty of Angus and hadn't run across it. My eyes are crossing so I will start looking again tomorrow AM!
I see that Rick Fielding recorded it. Wonder which version he recorded? Thanks again Bruce.
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Subject: RE: Bachelor's Hall - clarificaiton needed From: Lesley N. Date: 12 Dec 99 - 01:34 AM And thanks Bill too - our messages cross in cyberspace! You're right about there being a Canadian version. Wish I had Fowke to look it up! I agree the women don't seem to fit in with the general theme. To summarize Ritchie, she says it's as though the women are complaining and men get in the last word. Maybe it was like the Laird of Cockpen and someone put in a last verse... (People didn't like the ending in Laird where she rejected him so they added verses where she changes her mind and marries the idiot!) Though with a name like Bachelor's Hall maybe the first verses came later! |
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Subject: RE: Bachelor's Hall - clarificaiton needed From: Bruce O. Date: 12 Dec 99 - 02:00 AM The chapbook title used by the Angus (and sucessor Anguses, Newcastle or Gateside) 'A Garland of New Songs', won't get you very far, as there are around 40 that I know of with that title. |
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Subject: RE: Bachelor's Hall - clarificaiton needed From: bunkerhill Date: 12 Dec 99 - 09:22 AM Ritchie also notes somewhere that "Bachelor's Hall" was popular at Pine Mountain Settlement School while one of her sisters was attending. There was a close association between settlement schools and the suffrage movement. Many of the settlement workers had an interest in collecting songs. The climate around 1920, when the vote was finally won, or the years leading up to it, would have been ripe for crossover of women's lament lyrics into a song originally celebrating joys of bachelorhood. |
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Subject: RE: Bachelor's Hall - clarificaiton needed From: Jeri Date: 12 Dec 99 - 09:38 AM Lesley, it sounds like Rick recorded the version Bill C posted the verse for. The notes to the CD say it was collected by Ken Peacock from the singing of Mr. Howard Morry of Newfoundland. |
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Subject: RE: Bachelor's Hall - clarificaiton needed From: Willie-O Date: 12 Dec 99 - 11:05 AM That figures. I think my parents still have the album so I'll check next time I visit. There were a lot of recordings of Maritime and particularly Newfoundland songs from the fifties--by Ed McCurdy, Alan Mills, Omar Blondahl, Tom Kines and so on. Looking back in them now, there are a lot of songs currently being sung by us now middle-aged folkies in pretty much the same versions as on these records--but also some great songs such as Bachelor's Hall that have fallen out of currency. (Every time I think I find a forgotten gem though, Ian Robb puts it on his next recording..) Bill |
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Subject: RE: Bachelor's Hall - clarificaiton needed From: Lesley N. Date: 12 Dec 99 - 11:12 AM Turns out the Bachelor's Hall version that is on the broadsides at the Bodly (and BG) is the Dibdin version. I can't find one that correlates to the hard fortune lyrics - which doesn't mean it's not there, just that I can't find it if it is! |
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Subject: RE: Bachelor's Hall - clarificaiton needed From: harpgirl Date: 12 Dec 99 - 11:38 AM Lesley and Bruce...I know and sing this song as "The Wagonner's Lad"...The Bachelor's Hall I am familiar with was sung by Jim Ringer...harpgirl |
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Subject: RE: Bachelor's Hall - clarificaiton needed From: Rick Fielding Date: 12 Dec 99 - 12:30 PM Leslie, the version of "Bachelor's Hall" that I recorded on "Lifeline" was sung for a number of years by a wonderful balladeer named Tom Kines. Jeri's info is correct about it's origin. Tom was very theatrical, and because he had a trained voice, came close at times to being one of those "grand piano folkies". I only got to know him about a year before he died and he appeared a trifle bitter that he never got invited to folk festivals. He couldn't for the life of him understand why a twenty year old singing about a recent love affair, warranted inclusion at a gathering of folkies, and he, who had spent a lifetime carrying on Canadian ballad tradition was so rejected. I believe he was close to Richard Dyer Bennett, and Ed McCurdy. For a time he had a CBC (Canadian Broadcasting Corporation) radio show called "the song peddlar". I sing about 10 of his versions of Canadian folk songs. Rick |
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Subject: RE: Bachelor's Hall - clarificaiton needed From: Jeri Date: 12 Dec 99 - 01:03 PM Rick, sorry if I "stole your fire" - I didn't know if you would have time to post. Shame about Tom Kines. I think, as with a lot of things in life, we have to mix "what the people want" with "what we think they need to know." People only want what they know about already. I'm curious what other songs you have from him. |
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Subject: RE: Bachelor's Hall - clarificaiton needed From: kendall Date: 12 Dec 99 - 09:49 PM How about an unbiased opinion? Ricks version is the one I like, and his rendition is top quality. If you dont have his recording, Lifeline, you are missing some of the best there is. |
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Subject: Lyr Add: BACHELOR'S HALL From: Stewie Date: 13 Dec 99 - 02:15 AM The version that Dave Burland sings is as follows and, like everything Burland does, it's great. It differs from that given above and the one in DT. He had it from Mike Seeger. There is no lyric sheet in his CD; this is my transcription: ^^ BACHELOR'S HALL
Oh I rode seven horses clean to death
Oh the wind it will howl and the children will bawl
For I wake up in the morning how I stumble and reel
Then saddle up my horse and I'll ride him away
For it takes three hours for the women to dress
So saddle up my horse and I'll ride him away Source: Dave Burland 'Benchmark' Fat Cat Records FATCD004. |
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Subject: RE: Bachelor's Hall - clarificaiton needed From: Bruce O. Date: 13 Dec 99 - 02:21 PM Dibdin's "Bachelor's Hall" is from his 'The Oddites', 1790 (as is "Every Inch a Sailor") and is reprinted in 'The Universal Songster', II, p. 355, 1826. "Bachelor's Hall" is the subtitle of one of Thomas Moore's songs in the Levy sheet music collection. Where the American one came from I don't know.
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Subject: RE: Bachelor's Hall - clarificaiton needed From: Willie-O Date: 13 Dec 99 - 11:43 PM Right Rick, must have been Tom Kines I heard sing it. The album we had had Tom on vocals and guitar, accompanied by a very good clarinet player--quite a creative sound for the period. (early 60's I think). The song I learned off that album that I still sing today is "The Wild Goose" by Wade Hemsworth. Hasn't been done better (or often enough for that matter) imho. I never saw Tom Kines perform, he certainly wasn't very visible the past 25 years or so.
Bill |
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Subject: Lyr Add: BACHELOR'S HALL From: Mary in Kentucky Date: 10 Aug 00 - 08:59 PM Whew...this tune add stuff is hard work! It really makes me appriciate Dick, Susan, Joe and all the elves. I wanted to help with the missing tunes that MMario is working on, so I immediately saw one of my favorites, Bachelor's Hall. Well, things aren't quite so simple! There are two versions in the DT, neither have tunes, and neither appears to be the version I know. So here are the words to the Jean Ritchie version. I've sent a midi (which I copied from Lesley Nelson with her permission) to Alan. Hope I sending all these to the right places.
BACHELOR'S HALL I moved this message here from another thread on a different topic. |
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Subject: RE: Bachelor's Hall - clarification needed From: Joe Offer Date: 20 Feb 03 - 04:42 AM The Traditional Ballad Index lists two songs with this name. Bachelor's Hall (I)DESCRIPTION: About the sad life of a bachelor: "Bachelor's Hall, what a queer looking place it is, Keep me from such all the days of my life." The singer describes the mess and squalor of the place, and the pitiful lives of its inhabitants.AUTHOR: unknown EARLIEST DATE: 1942 KEYWORDS: bachelor loneliness FOUND IN: US(So) REFERENCES (1 citation): Randolph 475, "Bachelor's Hall" (1 text) Notes: There is another "Bachelor's Hall" which describes the good life in the Hall: "No woman to scold you, No children to bawl, Always stay single, keep Bachelor's Hall." As I have only one version of this text, I cannot really determine the relationship between the two -- but the present text is not in the same meter as the other. Charles Dibdin wrote a piece called "Batchelor's Hall" in 1794, but I haven't found a text of that, either. - RBW File: R475
Bachelor's Hall (II)DESCRIPTION: "When young men go courting they'll dress up so fine," meet the girls, dress up -- and end up worn out, (broke), and claiming, "I believe it's the best to court none at all, And live by myself and keep bachelor's hall," where neither wife nor children nagAUTHOR: unknown EARLIEST DATE: 1925 (recording, Fiddlin' John Carson) KEYWORDS: courting bachelor FOUND IN: US(SE) REFERENCES (3 citations): Abrahams/Foss, p. 120, "Bachelor's Hall" (1 text, 1 tune) Darling-NAS, p. 273, "Bachelor's Hall" (1 text) DT, BACHHALL RECORDINGS: Fiddlin' John Carson, "The Batchelor's Hall" (OKeh 45056, 1925; on TimesAint04 as "Bachelor's Hall") Notes: There is another "Bachelor's Hall" which describes the difficult life in the Hall: "Sure when I think what a burning disgrace it is, Never at all to be getting a wife, See the old bachelor gloomy and sad enough...." As I have only one version of #1, I cannot really determine the relationship between the two -- but the present text is not in the same meter as the other. Charles Dibdin wrote a piece called "Batchelor's Hall" in 1794, but I haven't found a text of that, either. - RBW File: AF120 Go to the Ballad Search form The Ballad Index Copyright 2002 by Robert B. Waltz and David G. Engle. |
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Subject: Lyr Add: SINGLE BLESSEDNESS...BACHELOR'S HALL From: Jim Dixon Date: 07 Mar 04 - 11:21 PM This must be the song Bruce O. was referring to above. From The Lester S. Levy Collection of Sheet Music: ^^ SINGLE BLESSEDNESS: A TRUE PICTURE OF A BACHELOR'S HALL (Words, Thomas More. Music, T. Wood. 1855.) Bachelor's Hall! What a quare looking place it is, Kape me from sich all the days of my life. Sure but I think what a burnin' disgrace it is, Never at all to be gettin' a wife. See the old bachelor, gloomy and sad enough, Placing his tay kittle over the fire. He soon tips it over. Saint Patrick! He's mad enough, If he were present, to fight with the 'Squire. How like a hog in a mortar bed wallowing, Awkward enough, see him knading his dough. Truth! If the bread he could ate without swallowing, How he would favor his palate, you know. Pots, dishes, pans, and such greasy commodities, Ashes and prata skins kiver the floor. His cupboard's a storehouse of comical oddities, Things that had never been neighbours before. His meal being over, his table's left sitting so. Dishes, take care of yourself if you can. But hunger returns, then he's fuming and fretting so. Och! Let him alone for a baste of a man. Late in the night when he goes to bed shiverin', Niver a bit is the bed made at all. He crapes like a tarapin under the kiverin'. Bad luck to the picture of Bachelor's Hall. |
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Subject: RE: Bachelor's Hall - clarification needed From: Billy Weeks Date: 08 Mar 04 - 12:28 PM The Dibdin 'Bachelor's Hall' mentioned by Joe Offer is (rather untypically for Dibdin) a hunting song with chorus 'Hark away, hark away! All nature looks gay/ and Aurora with smiles ushers in the bright day'. It has four verses the first of which starts with 'To Bachelor's Hall we good fellows invite, to partake of the chase that makes up our delight'. Charles Dibdin, incidentally, must come well up in the top ten of prolific songwriters. |
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Subject: RE: Bachelor's Hall - clarification needed From: davidmeredith Date: 21 Nov 04 - 09:53 AM I have version by Dave Deighton which begins I rode six horses plain to death I rode them till they had no breath I rode them till they had none at all And the devil may take me to bachelor's hall............... |
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Subject: RE: Bachelor's Hall - clarification needed From: GUEST Date: 24 Nov 04 - 08:53 AM The 1st verse of the version by Jean Ritchie seems identical to the first verse of "Wagoners Lad" (as sung by the Kossoy Sisters on an Audio CD of Appalachian Music which I have). There appear to be 2 themes here: (a) The song is actually sung by a woman who laments the free and easy attitude some young men can adopt to love; this was obviously in the days before female contraception since some present day females can give the males a run for their money in this respect (b) A comment on the squalor of the typical "bachelor pad". As P.J. O'Rourke once wrote when comparing the relative merits of private and public ownership, anything you own yourself is usually tidier and better organised than anything public (eg public buildings, lavatories, etc). However he issued a disclaimer: "If you're a typical bachelor under 30, please ignore the last bit." (or words to that effect). I remember Steeleye Span also did a versuion of Bachelors Hall. The ony lines I can remember were I think at the end of the chorus: "Always stay single, Keep Bachelors Hall". A BACHELOR |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Bachelor's Hall - clarification needed From: GUEST,ebrookejenkins@yahoo.com Date: 06 Dec 04 - 08:54 PM Have you heard the Duhks' version of the "how hard is the fortune of all womankind"? They're an Irish group from Manitoba. Fantastic!! |
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Subject: Lyr Add: BACHELORS' HALL (Charles Dibdin) From: Jim Dixon Date: 01 Mar 07 - 10:38 PM From Bodleian Library Broadside Ballads, Johnson Ballads fol. 52. (They also have several copies by different printers.) ^^ BACHELORS' HALL: Written and composed by Mr. [Charles] DIBDIN, FOR His ENTERTAINMENT called The ODDITIES. To Bachelors'-hall we good fellows invite, To partake of the chace that makes up our delight; We have spirits like fire, and of health such a stock That our Pulse strikes the seconds as true as a clock; Did you see us, you'd swear, as we mount with a grace, That Diana had dubb'd some new gods of the chace. CHORUS: Hark away! hark away! All nature looks gay, And Aurora with smiles ushers in the bright day. Dick Thickset came mounted upon a fine black, A better fleet gelding ne'er hunter did back; Tom Trig rode a bay, full of mettle and bone, And gaily Bob Buxom rode proud on a roan; But the horse of all horses that rivall'd the day, Was the 'Squire's Neck-or-nothing, and that was a grey. CHORUS: Hark away! hark away! While our spirits are gay, Let us drink to the joys of the next coming day. Then for hounds there was Nimble, so well that climbs rocks, And Cocknose, a good one at scenting a fox, Little Plunge, like a mole who will ferret and search, And beetle-brow'd Hawk's-eye, so dead at a lurch; Young Sly-looks, that scents the strong breeze from the south, And musical Echowell, with his deep mouth. Hark away, &c. Our horses thus all of the very best blood, 'Tis not likely you'll easily find such a stud; And for hounds, our opinions with thousands we'll back, That all England throughout can't produce such a pack: Thus having describ'd you dogs, horses, and crew, Away we set off, for the fox is in view. Hark away, &c. Sly reynard's brought home, while the horns sound a call, And now you're all welcome to Bachelors'-hall; The savory sirloin grateful smoaks on the board, And Bacchus pours wine from his favourite hoard; Come on, then, do honour to this jovial place, And enjoy the sweet pleasures that spring from the chace. Hark away, &c. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Bachelor's Hall - clarification needed From: 12-stringer Date: 03 May 08 - 03:35 AM Yet another version, from southern West Virginia and similar lyrically to the jb3 and Jean Ritchie texts above. This was recorded in 1929 by Roy Harvey and Earl Shirkey and released on Columbia 15429-D (as by "Roy Harper and Earl Shirkey"). Shirkey provides the vaudeville style yodeling between verses. Keep Bachelor's Hall (as sung by Roy Harvey) How hard is the fortune of all womenkind They're always controlled and they're always confined Confined to their parents till they are made wives Made slaves for their husbands the rest of their lives. Washing and ironing their daily due Darning and mending, I'll bring that in too Four little children I have to maintain Oh how I wish I was single again. (yodel and guitar riff) The first thing is Mama, I want a piece of bread The next thing is Mama, I want to go to bed She'll wash them and dress them and put them to bed Saying, Oh, my Lord, how I wish I was dead When young men go courting they dress up so fine They'll make up and fix up and use a good line They tiddle and tattle and make fun and lie And keep the young girls up till they're just fit to die (yodel) The girls will jump up and thus they will say Oh, boys, I'm so sleepy, I wish you'd go 'way You're nothing but false heart and this I do scorn Before you get home you will lodge in some barn. All the next day you'll stagger and reel, Saying, "God bless those sweet girls, how sleepy I feel." If I were a young man, I'd court none at all I'd live my days single, I'd keep bachelor's' hall. (yodel and guitar riff) Keep bachelor's hall for I think it's the best Go home drunk or sober, lie down, take your rest No wife there to scold you, no children to squawl, I say to all young men, keep bachelor's hall. (yodel and guitar riff) |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Bachelor's Hall - clarification needed From: GUEST,Shimrod Date: 03 May 08 - 12:09 PM The poet John Clare (1793 -1864) tells us that there was a 'Bachelors' Hall' in his native village of Helpston (Northamptonshire, UK - although under Cambridgeshire since 1974). His description is as follows: "It was a sort of meeting place for the young fellows of the town where they usd to join for ale and tobacco & drink the night away the occupiers were two bachelors & the cottage was calld 'Bachelors Hall' it is an old ruinous hut & has needed repairs ever since I knew it for they neither mended up the walls nor thatch the roof being negligent men but quiet and inoffensive neighbours" The two bachelor owners were the Billings brothers. This doesn't sound like a recipe for quiet inoffensiveness to me - and it's lucky for the Billings' neighbours that this was in the days before amplified music! I recall someone pointing this building out to me a few years ago and noting that it had been transformed into a bijou country residence. |
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