Origins: Died for Love: Sources and variants

Subject: RE: Origins: Died for Love: Sources and variants
From: Richie
Date: 24 Dec 16 - 04:22 PM

Hi,

It should be pointed out that "Rambling Boy" is not the Pitts broadside of c.1820 (see above) which begins, "I am a wild and rambling boy." The Pitts broadside, a completely different ballad, resembles more closely the "Brisk Young Sailor" ballads and has random generic stanzas from the "Died for Love" ballads.

Richie

Subject: RE: Origins: Died for Love: Sources and variants
From: Richie
Date: 24 Dec 16 - 04:13 PM

Hi,

It should be pointed out that "Rambling Boy" (sent to sea- dies of a cannonball) from a chapbook by J. & M. Robertson, Saltmarket, Glasgow; 1799 as well as "Answer to Rambling Boy" and "The Cruel Father or Deceived Maid," from the Madden Collection, c.1790 are completely different ballads from Brisk Young Sailor and all the rest. They have almost nothing in common with Butcher Boy.

Cox said in 1925 that "The Cruel Father or Deceived Maid" was one of 4 ballads that make up Butcher Boy- this is also not accurate- the only commonality is the suicide and last stanza.

The "new" ballad "O Willie" that Roger Dev Renwick writes about in his chapter, 'Oh, Willie': An Unrecognized Anglo-American Ballad, is the old 1700s ballad 'Cruel Father/Rambling Boy,' whose variants were mixed with Butcher Boy variants in collections. Renwick fails to identify the original sources of his "new" ballad and why they were not correctly identified. He does show the differences and identifies some versions in various collections.

Richie

Subject: RE: Origins: Died for Love: Sources and variants
From: Richie
Date: 24 Dec 16 - 10:03 AM

Hi,

Here's a tidbit of information about title, The Isle of Cloy (Roud 23272, see question 6 above):

   E.J. Moeran collected The Isle of Cloy in the 1930s in Suffolk from George Hill and Oliver Waspe. A.L. Lloyd sang this song in 1956 on his Tradition album The Foggy Dew and Other Traditional English Love Songs:

"It's of a lady in the Isle of Cloy"

It also appears in the Pitts Broadside (above) Rambling Boy:

"My lodgings are in the Isle of Cloy,"

In Recentering Anglo/American Folksong: Sea Crabs and Wicked Youths by Roger Dev Renwick he says, Isle of Cloy is "not found in any official British place names [and hence may be a folk name]"

Notice the slight change in The Cruel Father or Deceived Maid-- Madden Collection:

"A squire's daughter near Aclecloy."

to the accurate place name in a chapbook by J & M Robertson, Saltmarket, Glasgow:

"I'm lately come from Auchnacloy;"

Auchnacloy is an archaic spelling (meaning "field of the stone") for Aughnacloy, County Tyrone in Northern Ireland.

Isle of Cloy= Aclecloy= Auchnacloy

The folk process!!

Richie

Subject: RE: Origins: Died for Love: Sources and variants
From: Richie
Date: 23 Dec 16 - 10:14 AM

Hi,

Here's a link to Berzilla's "Love has Brought me to Despair" which she sang when she was in her 70s:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ey6_HnqnodU

Berzilla Chandler Wallin (1892- 1986) was a member of a family of renowned "Shelton Laurel" ballad singers in Madison County, North Carolina. Berzilla, who was there when Sharp collected ballads in 1916, was the sister of ballad singers Lloyd Chandler and Dellie Chandler Norton, and a cousin of Dillard Chandler.

Richie

Subject: RE: Origins: Died for Love: Sources and variants
From: Richie
Date: 23 Dec 16 - 12:14 AM

Hi,

Here's the first broadside Steve emailed me. It's mixed with Oxfordshire Tragedy c. 1686 (after stanza 4) and was called a sequel to Oxfordhire by Ebsworth.

The Lady's Lamentation for the Loss of her Sweetheart; Manchester Central library; c.1775.

1. A brisk young lad came courting me,
He stole away my liberty;
He stole my heart with a free good will,
He has it now, and he'll keep it still.

2. But when my belly it was low,
He followed me thro' frost and snow;
But now my apron's up to my chin
My love passes by and says nothing.

3. There is a ale-house in yonder town
Where oft my love sits him down.
He takes a stranger to his knee.
Which makes me sigh in misery.

4. He takes a stranger, I know for why,
Because she hath more gold than I;
Her gold will waste, and her beauty blast,
And she will become like me at last.

5. In Woodstock town in Oxfordshire,
As I went forth to take the air,
To view the fields and meadows 'round,
I though I heard a doleful sound.

6. Down by a crystal river side,
A gallant bower I espy'd,
And there was in it all alone
A fair Lady making great moan.

7. "Alas!" said she, my Love's unkind,
My sighs and tears he will not mind;
He is so cruel unto me,
Which causes all my misery.

8. "My Father is a worthy Knight,
My Mother is a lady bright;
And I a child and only heir,
And love has brought me to despair.

9. There is a flower as I've heard say,
I wish I could that flower find,
It would ease my heart,
And cure my mind.

10. Then round the meadows she did run,
And gather'd flowers as they sprung;
Of every sort she gathered some,
Till she got her apron full.

11. But when I found her corpse was cold,
They went to her false love, and told
What to this fair maid's chance befel,
I'm glad," said he, that she's so well.

12. What did she think I so fond could be,
That I could fancy none but she;
Man was not made for one alone,
I took delight to hear her moan.

Richie

Subject: RE: Origins: Died for Love: Sources and variants
From: Richie
Date: 22 Dec 16 - 10:51 PM

Hi,

By the way Steve, the first ballad you emailed "The Lady's Lamentation" is called a sequel and after the 4th stanza with some variation becomes "Oxfordshire Tragedy." I'll post that later.

Ebworth dates "Oxfordshire Tragedy," white letter, as c.1686. Apparently there's a similar version in Timothy O'Connor MS Songbook c1778 "In Woodstock Town" ("in Oxford shore") but I don't have access to that. Anyone?

Richie

Subject: RE: Origins: Died for Love: Sources and variants
From: Richie
Date: 22 Dec 16 - 10:19 PM

Hi,

Thought I'd post my favorite version of "Love Has Brought Me To Despair," Laws P25. I've come to the conclusion that this and the other versions are based on, or similar to, a broadside that Ebsworth calls "Oxfordshire Tragedy." It's in two parts but the first part (The Constant Lady and false-hearted Squire; Being a Relation of a Knight's Daughter near Woodstock Town in Oxfordshire) has these opening stanzas:

Near Woodstock town in Oxfordshire,
as I walk'd forth to take the air,
To view the fields and meadowa round,
methought I heard a mournful sound. [This was included in the first ballad Steve emailed me)

Down by a crystal river side, a gallant Bower I espied,
Where a fair Lady made great moan, with many a bitter sigh and groan.

"Alas!" (quoth she), "my Love's unkind;
my sighs and tears he will not mind;
But he is cruel unto me,
which causes all my misery.

"My Father is a worthy Knight,
my Mother is a Lady bright;
And I their only child and heir:
yet Love has brought me to despair. [and also]

The Lady round the meadow run,
and gather'd flowers as they sprung;
Of every sort she there did pull,
until she got her apron full.

"Now there's a flower," she did say,
"is named Heart's-ease, night and day;
I wish I could that flower find,
for to ease my love-sick mind.

"But oh, alas! 'tis all in vain
for me to sigh and to complain;
There 's nothing that can ease my smart,
for his disdain will break my heart."

The green ground served as a bed, and flowers,
a pillow for her head;
She laid her down, and nothing spoke:
alas! for love her heart was broke.

* * * *

LOVE HAS BROUGHT ME TO DESPAIR (sung by Berzilla Wallin c.1963, my transcription)

My father he was a rich old jay
My mother she was a lady fair
And me a-bein' the only heir
So love has brought me to despair.

It's when I wore my long silk gown
He follered me from town to town
But now my apron just won't tie
He passes my door and he won't stop in

There is a street in yonders town
Where my true love walks up and down
He takes another girl on his knee,
And tells to her what he won't tell me,
He takes another girl on his knee,
Oh ain't awful grief to me

There is some flowers I've heard them say,
That' would cure false love both night and day
And of these flowers I did pull,
Until I got my apron full.

I gathered black, I gathered blue,
But none of these flowers could I find;
That would cure false love
Or ease my mind.

It's out of these leaves I made a bed
And out of the flowers a pillow for my head
It's down she lay and nary word spoke,
Until her achin' heart was broke,
And in green meadows 'round
I thought I heard some doleful sound.

Richie

Subject: RE: Origins: Died for Love: Sources and variants
From: Richie
Date: 22 Dec 16 - 10:06 PM

Hi Lighter,

There are 21 posts many similar to the version you posted here: http://able2know.org/topic/52-2 Here's one:

I dont know who wrote it, but the original lyrics of this song were sung to me by my welsh father when i was little. We still laugh about how he sang songs about a woman hanging herself to his young uns, but at the time we were transfixed...

The words (which he learnt while in the army (WWII) are as follows:

A miner came from work one night
And found his house without a light
He went upstairs to go to bed
When a sudden thought came to his head

He went into his daughter's room
And found her hanging from a beam
He took his knife and cut her down
And on her breast these words he found

Oh Lord I wish my child was born
And all my troubles they were gone
So dig my grave and dig it deep
And plant white lilies at my feet

They dug her grave and dug it deep
And planted lilies at her feet
And now she lies deep underground
Where love is lost and never found

So all you maidens bear in mind
A soldiers heart is hard to find
So if you find one good and true
Don't change the old one for a new

Richie

Subject: RE: Origins: Died for Love: Sources and variants
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 22 Dec 16 - 08:00 PM

Hi, Steve. Offhand I don't recognize the tune as American.

Subject: RE: Origins: Died for Love: Sources and variants
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 22 Dec 16 - 07:41 PM

As this song didn't appear until the end of WWI I think it is based on Butcher Boy and was brought over by US soldiers. It certainly featured strongly in Sod's Operas over here in WWII,

Subject: RE: Origins: Died for Love: Sources and variants
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 22 Dec 16 - 06:00 PM

Recorded (almost) verbatim on Ewan MacColl's "Bless 'em All and Other British Army Songs" (Riverside, ?1957). He calls it "All You Maidens Sweet and Kind."

Henderson doesn't provide a tune.

Subject: RE: Origins: Died for Love: Sources and variants
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 22 Dec 16 - 05:54 PM

From Hamish Henderson's "Ballads of World War II":

Now all you maidens sweet and kind,
Just bear in mind a soldier's love is hard to find.
So when you've found one good and true,
Don't change the old love for a new.

She was a maiden sweet and kind,
Brought up in high society;
A soldier in this battery
Came and stole that girl way from me.

Her father came home late on night,
And found his house without a light;
He went upstairs to go to bed,
When a certain thought came in his head.

He went into his daughter's room,
And found her hanging from a beam;
He took a knife to cut her down,
And on her breast these words he found:

My love is for a soldier boy,
Who's gone across the deep blue sea.
I often seem to think of him,
But he never seems to think of me.

I wish my baby could be born,
Then all my troubles would be gone,
But dig my grave and dig it deep,
And place white lilies at my feet.

(Repeat stanza 1.)


[Punctuation added, line 2 re-spaced.]

Henderson titles this "An R.A. [Regular Army] Ballad." He notes that it was "much sung, especially in the earlier years of the war."

Subject: RE: Origins: Died for Love: Sources and variants
From: Richie
Date: 22 Dec 16 - 03:05 PM

Hi,

Here's The Rambling Boy from a chapbook by J & M Robertson, Saltmarket, Glasgow; printed 1799 and 1803. It also has "Answer to Rambling Boy" which I'll post separately. See also "An Excellent Garland" Manchester printed by G. Swindells dated 1800. This version is much older (some prints date c. 1750) and better than the Pitts version posted earlier.


THE RAMBLING BOY.

I am a rake and a rambling boy.
I'm lately come from Auchnacloy;
A rambling boy although I be,
I'll forsake them all and go with thee.

My father promis'd me houses and land.
If I would be at his command;
At his command, love, I ne'er will be ;
I'll forsake them all love and go with thee.

For houses and land they are but a plot,
Houses and land I do value not;
For houses and garden I will provide,
And have my darling down by my side.

Well doth he know I can shape and few,
Well doth he know I can bake and brew,
I can wash his linen and dress them fine.
And yet lie's gone and left me behind.

O Willie Baillie ye told me lies,
You'd build me castles up to the skies,
And every river should have a brigg,
And every finger a fine gold ring.

O Billy, Billy, I love thee well,
I love thee better than tongue can tell,
I love thee well though I dare not show it,
My dearest dear, let no man know it.

I wish I were a black-bird or thrush,
Singing my notes from bush to bush;
That all the world might plainly fee,
I lov'd a man, and he lov'd not me.

Or was I, but a silly fly,
In my love's bosom then would I lie.
When all the world was fall asleep,
In my love's bosom then would I creep.

My love he came late in the night,
Seeking for his sweet-heart's delight;
He ran up stairs, the door he broke,
And found his love all in a rope.

Then he went up and cut her down,
And in her bosom a note was found,
Wrote in shining letters to bright,
Enough a mortal's heart to break.

"Go dig my grave both wide and deep,
And cover it with a marble stone;
And in the middle a turtle dove,
To show the world that I dy'd for love."

Tis not for gold that I lie here,
Nor yet for jewels, know my dear;
But it is for that sweet Irish boy,
That has caused my sad destiny.

Richie

Subject: RE: Origins: Died for Love: Sources and variants
From: Richie
Date: 22 Dec 16 - 02:48 PM

Hi,

This is one of the broadsides sent by Steve Gardham- thanks Steve. It's part of the "Brisk Young Sailor group" and has one "I wish" stanza.

"A New Song Call'd the Distress'd Maid" London, (no imprint) in the Madden Collection, Cambridge University Library (Slip Songs H-N no. 1337) c.1785.

A brisk young Sailor courted me,
He stole away my liberty;
He stole my heart with a free good will,
He has it now, and he'll keep it still.

When first i kept my belly low,
He would follow me thro' frost and snow;
But now my apron is to my chin,
He passes by and says nothing.

There is a ale-house in yonders town
My love goes in and sits him down.
He takes a stranger to his knee.
Which is a most sad grief to me.

In Cupid's chains I am fast bounwnd
No one can loose me but my love;
It's O come loose me and set me free
And set me at my liberty.

There is a man under yonder hill
A heart he has is hard as steel,
Two hearts he has instead of one
he will be a rogue when I am gone.

I wish my pretty babe was born
And smiling in his Daddy's arms
My soul to God my body to clay,
Then all my sorrows fled away.

This is different than the "Distressed Maid" ballads which Steve wrote an article online.

Richie

Subject: RE: Origins: Died for Love: Sources and variants
From: Richie
Date: 22 Dec 16 - 01:36 AM

Hi,

A number of ballads have been collected from the "I wish" branch. The The Bishoprick Garland (1834) have a number of I Wish stanzas under "The Pitman's Love Song":

I wish my love she was a grey Ewe,
Grazing by yonder river side;
And aw mysel a bonny black Tup,
By that Ewe's side aw always would bide.

Some stanzas have been associated with "Water Is Wide."

A version from A. L. Lloyd was published in Come all ye bold miners: ballads and songs of the coalfields (1978).

Aw wish my lover she was a cherry,
Growing upon yon cherry tree,
And aw mysel a bonny blackbird;
How aw would peck that cherry cherree.

A standard "I Wish" text would be Percy Grainger's collected in 1906 or the following version:

I WISH, I WISH- Sung by Mrs C. Costello, Birmingham (M.S. and P.S.-S.1951) Mrs. Cecilia Costello sang it on Leader LEE 4054.

I wish, I wish, but it's all in vain,
I wish I were a maid again;
But a maid again I never shall be
Till apples grow on an orange tree.

I wish my baby it was born,
And smiling on its papa's knee,
And I to be in yon churchyard,
With long green grass growing over me.

When my apron-strings hung low,
He followed me through frost and snow,
But now my apron's to my chin,
He passes by and says nothing.

Oh grief, oh grief, I'll tell you why -
That girl has more gold than I;
More gold than I and beauty and fame,
But she will come like me again.

Richie

Subject: RE: Origins: Died for Love: Sources and variants
From: Richie
Date: 22 Dec 16 - 12:19 AM

Hi,

There are several print version from the 1700s. This is from the "I Wish, I wish" branch.

The Effects of Love - A New Song; London (no imprint), c. 1780:

    O! Love is hot, and Love is cold,
    And love is dearer than any gold;
    And love is dearer than any thing,
    Unto my grave it will me bring.

    O when my apron it hung low,
    He followed me thro' frost and snow;
    But now I am with-child by him,
    He passes by and says nothing.

    I wish that I had ne'er been born,
    Since love has proved my downfall;
    He takes a stranger on his knee,
    And is this not a grief to me.

    I wish that my dear babe was born,
    And dandled on its daddy's knee,
    And I in the cold grave did lie,
    And the green grass grew over me.

    Ye Christmas winds when will ye blow;
    And blow the green leaves off the tree,
    O, gentle Death, when will you call,
    For of my life I am quite weary.

    Unloose those chains love, and set me free
    And let me at liberty;
    For was you hear (sic) instead of me,
    I'd unloose you love, and set you free.

Richie

Subject: RE: Origins: Died for Love: Sources and variants
From: Richie
Date: 21 Dec 16 - 07:46 PM

Hi,

Off the top of my head,

Kittredge reported 5 print versions in the 1800s- this was one of them dated about 1880s. I have a copy of the broadside which I'll eventually post, Wehman reprinted this in the early 1900s.

There's a circa 1860 print from New York in the Bodleian and I've seen one more US early print.

So to answer your question, I'd say four print versions in the US predated it. As far as it's influence- there are many version that begin with "In Jersey City" but also many that slightly change the name.

I just like the "an inn in" part - There was an inn in. . . sinmg that a couple times.

Richie

Subject: RE: Origins: Died for Love: Sources and variants
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 21 Dec 16 - 06:38 PM

Here's an interesting question, Richie. how influential was that Wehman printing and how many versions predate it?

Subject: RE: Origins: Died for Love: Sources and variants
From: Richie
Date: 21 Dec 16 - 05:27 PM

OK Steve!!!

Here's one more branch the north American branch where it also appears as a cowboy song:

Text from a broadside by Henry J. Wehman, Song Publisher, No. 50 Chatham Street, New York City.

The Butcher Boy.

In Jersey City, where I did dwell,
A butcher-boy I loved so well,
He courted me my heart away,
And now with me he will not stay.
There is an inn in the same town,
Where my love goes and sits him down;
He takes a strange girl on his knee,
And tells to her what he don't tell me.

It's a grief for me; I'll tell you why:
Because she has more gold than I;
But her gold will melt, and her silver fly;
In time of need, she'll be poor as I.
I go up-stairs to make my bed,
But nothing to my mother said;
My mother comes up-stairs, to me
Saying "What's the matter, my daughter dear?"

"Oh! mother, mother! you do not know
What grief, and pain, and sorrow, woe—
Go get a chair to sit me down,
And a pen and ink to write it down."
On every line she dropped a tear,
While calling home her Willie dear;
And when her father he came home,
He said, "Where is my daughter gone?"

He went up-stairs, the door he broke—
He found her hanging upon a rope—
He took his knife and he cut her down,
And in her breast those lines were found:
"Oh! what a silly maid am I!
To hang myself for a butcher-boy!
Go dig my grave, both long and deep;
Place a marble-stone at my head and feet,
And on my breast a turtle dove,
To show the world I died for love!"

Richie

Subject: RE: Origins: Died for Love: Sources and variants
From: Richie
Date: 21 Dec 16 - 05:17 PM

Hi,

Here are the last two stanzas of Rambling Boy- it could read it but two other versions appear similarly:

8. Her father he came home that night
And asking for his heart's delight.
He went up stairs, the door he broke.
He found her hanging in a rope.

9. He took a knife and cut her down,
And in her bosom these lines he found:
Dig me a grave both wide and deep.
And a marble stone to cover it.

Apparently these are the later broadsides. No rhyme in the last line of last stanza :)

Richie

Subject: RE: Origins: Died for Love: Sources and variants
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 21 Dec 16 - 05:13 PM

A whole bunch of early versions heading your way soon, Richie.

Subject: RE: Origins: Died for Love: Sources and variants
From: Richie
Date: 21 Dec 16 - 04:55 PM

Hi,

This is a more modern version of 3rd branch. Here are the first seven stanzas of this print (see Bodleian for last two) the suicide (hard to read) is next:

The Rambling Boy- Pitts broadside

1. I am a wild and a rambling boy,
My lodgings are in the Isle of Cloy,
A wild and a rambling boy I be,
I'll forsake them all and follow thee.

2. O Billy! Billy! I love you well,
I love you better than tongue can tell
I love you well but dare not shew,
To you my dear let no one know.

3. I wish I was a blackbird or thrush,
Changing my notes from bush to bush,
That all the world might plainly see,
I lov'd a man that lov'd not me,

4. I wish I was a little fly,
That on his bosom I might lie.
And all the people fast asleep,
Into my lover's arms I'd softly creep.

5. I love my father I love my mother,
I love my sisters and my brothers
I love my friends and relations too,
I would forsake them all to go with you

7. My father left me house and land,
Bid me use it at my command;
But at my command they shall I never be;
I'll forsake them all love and go with thee.

Anyone with additional versions or comments?

Richie

Subject: RE: Origins: Died for Love: Sources and variants
From: Richie
Date: 21 Dec 16 - 04:37 PM

Hi,

Here's another branch:

Sheffield Park

IN Sheffield park, O there did dwell,
A brisk young lad, I lov'd him well,
He courted me my heart to gain,
He is gone and left me full of pain.

I went up stairs to make the bed,
I laid me down and nothing said,
My mistress came and to me said,
What is the matter with you my maid.

O mistress, mistress you little know,
The pain and sorrow I undergo,
Its put your hand on my left breast,
My panting heart can take no rest.

My mistress away from me did go,
Some help, some help I will have for you,
No help, no help, no help I crave,
Sweet William brought me to the grave.

So take this letter to him with speed,
And give it to him if he can read,
And bring me an answer without delay,
For he has stole my heart away.

She took the letter immediately,
He read it over while she stood by.
And soon he did the letter burn,
Leaving this maid to make her mourn.

How can she think how fond I'd be,
That I could fancy none but she,
Man was not made for one alone,
I take delight to hear her mourn.

Then she return'd immediately,
And found her maid as cold as clay;
Beware young maids don't love in vain,
For love has broke her heart in twain.

She gather'd the green grass for her bed,
And a flowery pillow for her head,
The leaves that blow from tree to tree,
Shall be a covering over thee.

O cruel man, I find thou art,
For breaking my own child's heart,
Now she in Abraham's bosom sleep,
While thy tormented soul shall weep.

Pitts, Printer, wholesale Toy and Marble warehouse
6, Gt. St. Andrew Street, Seven Dials. (c. 1820s)

Image: Vignette wood engraving showing lovers standing and holding hands, before a tree and cottage to the left (birds on the ground in the foreground), and a sailboat on water to the right in the background.

Richie

Subject: RE: Origins: Died for Love: Sources and variants
From: Richie
Date: 21 Dec 16 - 04:33 PM

Hi,

Here's one branch of the tree:

"Brisk Young Sailor" (broadside) as printed in Axon Ballads No. 55
Washington, printer; Mancester.

A brisk young sailor courted me,
He stole away my liberty,
He stole my heart with a free good will,
I must confess I love him still.
Down in the meadows she did run,
A gathering flowers as they sprung,
Every sort she gave a pull,
Till she had gathered her apron full.

When first I wore my apron low,
He followed me through frost and snow,
But now my apron is up to my chin,
He passes by and says nothing.
There is an alehouse in this town,
Where my love goes and sits him down,
He takes another girl on his knee,
Why is not that a grief to me.

Ah, griev'd I am, I'll tell you why,
Because she has more gold than I,
Her gold will waste, her beauty blast,
Poor girl she'll come like me at last,
I wish my baby it was born,
Set smiling on its father's knee,
And I was dead and in my grave,
And green grass growing over me.

There is a bird all in yonder tree,
Some say 'tis blind, and cannot see,
I wish it had been the same by me,
Before I had gained my love's company,
There is a man on yonder hill,
He has a heart as hard as steel,
He has two hearts instead of one,
He'll be a rogue when I am gone.

But when they found her corpse was cold,
They went to her false love and told,
I am glad says he, she has done so well,
I long to hear her funeral knell,
In Abraham's bosom she does sleep,
While his tormenting soul must weep,
He often wished his time o'er again,
That his bride he might make her merry & marry her soon.

Richie

Subject: Origins: Died for Love: Sources and variants
From: Richie
Date: 21 Dec 16 - 04:18 PM

This is an edited PermaThread®, used for a special project. This thread will be moderated. Feel free to post to this thread, but remember that all messages posted here are subject to editing or deletion.
-Joe Offer-

Hi,

About two days ago I started a ballad study of the "Died for Love" ballads. I need your help to try and sift through the myriad versions and variants.

I'll start with a few questions that I have.

1) Do you know of any Irish versions or broadsides of "Rambling Boy"?

2) Is there an older version of "Sheffield Park" online- that dates to the 1700s?

3) What are some early versions (pre-1700s) of "Died for Love" and what is the origin (first source and date) of this last stanza?

from The Treasury of Musick-Lawes 1669:

Last, build my tomb of lovers' bones,
Set round about with marble-stones,
My Scutcheon bearing Venus Dove,
My epitaph, I died for love.

4) What is the earliest "Brisk Young Sailor" version? other "brisk Young" versions?

5) What is source of late 1700s, "Answer to the Rambling Boy"?

6) Does anyone have or can find "The cruel father, or, deceived maid"
or "A squire's daughter" both apparently begin "A squire's daughter near Aclecloy."

7. What are different spelling for "Aclecloy" ?

8. When did alehouse (tavern) become added and what version was it added to?

Thank you in advance, I'll post some of the basic versions.

Richie