BS: A new political low take 2

Subject: RE: BS: A new political low take 2
From: beardedbruce
Date: 30 Dec 16 - 02:33 PM

"I will not read Brietbart."


That is where we differ- I will read ALL points of view, and try to determine what the facts actually are.

Subject: RE: BS: A new political low take 2
From: beardedbruce
Date: 30 Dec 16 - 02:29 PM

"reacting to specious propaganda"

I listened to HRC stating what she had done, and referred to the documents that I was given and had signed to be authorized to handle classified data. Where does "specious propaganda" come into it? are you saying the HRC LIED about what she did?

Subject: RE: BS: A new political low take 2
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Dec 16 - 02:27 PM

oooo you got me

I will not read Brietbart.

I can agree on most things you say but sometimes for different reasons
But there is no alt left in a literal sense

You might know when you have been misled. Sometimes you might not know.

PS Thank you for your honesty.

Subject: RE: BS: A new political low take 2
From: beardedbruce
Date: 30 Dec 16 - 02:26 PM

As opposed to the Obama paying off the Auto unions after getting a hefty contribution from them? I had GM stock- but the Obama administration split GM into two companies- One, that was the old one given to the stockholders ( ie, the funds that had everyone else's retirement money was in ) got the debts. The new GM (which had only the assets and no debt) stock was given to the unions.

Not propaganda, fact.

Subject: RE: BS: A new political low take 2
From: beardedbruce
Date: 30 Dec 16 - 02:15 PM

DtG,

Actually, the training is rather widespread- several million of us.

Including all those DOJ people dealing with classified material- HRC had to sign off that she HAD been given that training. When I took it, it was a three plus day course, just for SECRET level.

Subject: RE: BS: A new political low take 2
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Dec 16 - 02:12 PM

That post is an example of only reacting to specious propaganda, it gets us nowhere except a bookmark of truth.

Yes I can wait.

What we can judge so far are the 4 Fox news contributors from Fox News to his cabinet, 3 billionaire globalists to his cabinet, 3 Generals, one neo Nazi advisor, and 2 people whose positions are to disband the agency they were given, and one HUD head who is an expert with baby brains.

We know different things so it will take time to learn if we both listen. Facts are amazing and entertaining. bbl

Subject: RE: BS: A new political low take 2
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Dec 16 - 02:09 PM

I could tell you, Bruce, but I would then have to kill you...

Subject: RE: BS: A new political low take 2
From: beardedbruce
Date: 30 Dec 16 - 01:56 PM

"Reprimands were applicable but claims of Felonies and no inquiries are so false I am embarrassed for you. "

Sorry you feel that way. Whose lies are YOU now believing?

What training in handling classified information have you had? What positions in the Federal Government have you been in that exposed you to classified materials?

Subject: RE: BS: A new political low take 2
From: beardedbruce
Date: 30 Dec 16 - 01:52 PM

When Obama was ELECTED, he was given a Nobel Prize for what he might do.

When Trump was elected, there were demonstrations because of what he MIGHT do.


I can judge Obama on his PAST failures- can YOU wait to judge Trump on his, or will you give him the same chance that Obama had to make good?

Subject: RE: BS: A new political low take 2
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Dec 16 - 01:47 PM

Reprimands were applicable but claims of Felonies and no inquiries are so false I am embarrassed for you.

Subject: RE: BS: A new political low take 2
From: beardedbruce
Date: 30 Dec 16 - 01:47 PM

I don't watch Fox. I read multiple sources, not listen to talking heads.


"Staying who you are is only honest but opening yourself to more knowledge without automatic hate will make you a more balanced and fair person."

As it would for ALL ( I am looking at YOU) of us.


Also half the stuff alt Left and "Main Stream" media accused Trump of "going to do" is virtually impossible.

Yet you help spread these anti-Trump accusations, while complaining about others spreading anti-Obama messages

Subject: RE: BS: A new political low take 2
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Dec 16 - 01:41 PM

Strongly worded but fair enough.

Also half the stuff alt and right wing media accused Obama of doing is virtually impossible.

Fox never carried Obama speeches except for Inauguration, State of the Union and even skipped press Conferences
I bet you liked the American Freedom medal selections.

Staying who you are is only honest but opening yourself to more knowledge without automatic hate will make you a more balanced and fair person. With proganda wars upon us don't be a hypnosis victim. Be your own decision maker.

Greg may have to learn this the hard way.

Subject: RE: BS: A new political low take 2
From: beardedbruce
Date: 30 Dec 16 - 01:33 PM

Let me see- A private business man sued over business activities ( the cost of doing business)

Vs

A Federal Government Cabinet official who puts her privacy above the law and security of the US.


What a choice! But the DNC gave it to us.



No inquiry, no trial, nothing: Being NOT found guilty is NOT the same as being found NOT GUILTY- total shield by the Obama administration. If it had bee a Republican DOJ and Bush Cabinet official, how loud would the screams have been?

Subject: RE: BS: A new political low take 2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Dec 16 - 01:24 PM

"I KNOW that HC committed various felonies concerning her misuse of classified information ."
Eve though she was found not guilty by an enquiry
The first action Trump took following his election was to partially settle a law suit concerning one of his enterprises' ripping off students
Would you buy used car from this man - or elect him president?
Mind you, he has promised to look into accusations of hacking by the Russians and I'm sure he is the last person to carry out a cover-up
He's threatened to pull the plug on his Golf Club a few miles down this coast if he doesn't get his way over sealing off access to a local beach - so it's not all bad news
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: A new political low take 2
From: beardedbruce
Date: 30 Dec 16 - 01:17 PM

I hold the Trump administration to the same standards I tried to hold the Obama one too ( and were berated for here)- but if I were to hold it to the standards that the LIBERALS held Obama to, then anything goes.


"Celebrity chef and self-described "privileged Eastern liberal" Anthony Bourdain slammed his fellow leftist elites this week, arguing that their disdain for working-class Americans helped create "the upswell of rage and contempt" that propelled Donald Trump to the presidency.

"The utter contempt with which privileged Eastern liberals such as myself discuss red-state, gun-country, working-class America as ridiculous and morons and rubes is largely responsible for the upswell of rage and contempt and desire to pull down the temple that we're seeing now," Bourdain said in an interview with Reason magazine.

"I've spent a lot of time in gun-country, God-fearing America," Bourdain continued. "There are a hell of a lot of nice people out there, who are doing what everyone else in this world is trying to do: the best they can to get by and take care of themselves and the people they love. When we deny them their basic humanity and legitimacy of their views, however different they may be than ours, when we mock them at every turn and treat them with contempt, we do no one any good.""


https://www.yahoo.com/news/anthony-bourdain-slams-privileged-liberals-for-utter-contempt-of-working-class-151215285.html

Subject: RE: BS: A new political low take 2
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Dec 16 - 01:15 PM

Eyes are opening

Dave it looked like the right thread to me, at least I hoped so.

Subject: RE: BS: A new political low take 2
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Dec 16 - 01:11 PM

Bruce I guess baby steps of small agreements won't work yet. I never saw the Cuban Missile Crises as a DEMOCRATIC Kennedy caused crises.
But it does make sense in a black and white, world.

We had the same blast drills in Colorado. We even had a special siren.

I shouldn't say red and blue anymore because we all used to be blue and the Commies were always Red especially China.

Even Pink was suspect.

Its all very confusing. Now Trump is red and Russia is red white and BLUE.

Bruce if we throw away law , rule and precedent for Trump because Trump doesn't know what they are we leave ourselves open to criminal rule.

I know you feel IRKED at almost every mention of Trump. There has never been a president beyond scrutiny unless we just settle for a King and forget Democracy.

Remember liberals will not forget democracy, get used to it. In a way learn to see us as originalists.

All this is the civil war I envisioned 10 years ago. Learn to get along for both of us.

Subject: RE: BS: A new political low take 2
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Dec 16 - 01:00 PM

Sorry - Wrong thread! C&Ping my last remark to the 'usual suspects' one. If a mudelf has enough goodwill left to remove my comment - Feel free :-)

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: A new political low take 2
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Dec 16 - 12:58 PM

This is the stuff :-) Thanks for getting into the swing of it and sharing your school drills with us, Bruce. Over on another thread I have said that politics today seems to be the politics of fear so no one will blame you for voting for Trump. Well, some will but you can ignore them. As daft as it sounds, even though I immensely dislike this type of politics, I can understand how it gets so popular. I tend to sit back and take everything in, often for years, before I make a decision. Much to my wife's chagrin. But it does mean that I can often see many sides of the same event. Much to my own chagrin!

Are we moving slowly forward do you think?

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: A new political low take 2
From: beardedbruce
Date: 30 Dec 16 - 12:40 PM

I KNOW that HC committed various felonies concerning her misuse of classified information .

I have had NSA training as AISSR, and Alt Comsec Custodian, and what SHE STATED SHE HAD DONE was a violation of the law, regardless of whether she got cover from the Obama Administration. ANYONE who held a clearance would know this.

Doesn't matter if I had to hold my nose to vote for Trump- the Democrats conspired to make that the only choice available.

Subject: RE: BS: A new political low take 2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Dec 16 - 12:36 PM

"Jim did you know 2 years ago a radio talk jock convinced the entire State of Texas that UN troops were about to invade Texas."
I did indeed, I also know that Orson Welles convinced America that Marians had landed
I think we're talking about different things here wgeb referring to what Trump stands for and it's complacent to ignore that fact.
There are certain states which would benefit from a swing to the right - "free" Russia bing only one of them
I'd hate to think that we'll all be kicking ourselves in twelve moths time when we have half a dozen fascist European states all enjoying the protection of the U.S. veto - Israel has already been promised that one
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: A new political low take 2
From: beardedbruce
Date: 30 Dec 16 - 12:35 PM

Donuel,

When I was little, we had drills to hide under our desks in case of nuclear attack- THAT was under Kennedy.

Of course, we were within the TD/firestorm area of DC...

Subject: RE: BS: A new political low take 2
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Dec 16 - 12:34 PM

Greg is the anti matter to your white matter Bruce.

No doubt you have suffered dismissal by the liberals here.
So lets start over like DMcG said.

We all know we are being lied to. Lets agree on that.

Subject: RE: BS: A new political low take 2
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Dec 16 - 12:28 PM

Disinformation is now done by phone and Facebook. They are our instruments. They will call us to war by tweet and post.
Most of us will believe anything. (present&future speculative tense)

When I was a lad there were kids who would look for hiding places from the Russians. (imperfect past tense)

Subject: RE: BS: A new political low take 2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Dec 16 - 12:20 PM

I have no ego, Donuel. Why, I'm an atheist who doesn't even know whether there's a God or not. Beat that for self-doubt.

Subject: RE: BS: A new political low take 2
From: beardedbruce
Date: 30 Dec 16 - 12:17 PM

200!

Subject: RE: BS: A new political low take 2
From: beardedbruce
Date: 30 Dec 16 - 12:17 PM

Donuel,


"The right speaks the language of the emotional but not factually true

The left speaks the language of intellectual cause and effect and effect."


Not a proven statement by any means. I have been seeing statements here about Trump that, if made about Obama, would have the thread closed. Seems like the rules change when it is the majority viewpoint that is under attack.



I look at the posts here, ans see attacks on Trump, and his supporters, that, if similar ones had been made about Obama, there would have been loud screams form the majority here. From observation, the rules about what is acceptable posting here is that anything a Liberal posts is OK, while any of the minority that attempt to defend their viewpoint are vilified and posts deleted.

I have been here longer than 13 years, and the Liberals here have not shown ANY great effort in presenting support for their statements. In fact, in most cases the assumption is that the Liberal "fact" needs no support, and should be assumed to be true, while the conservative statement is shredded and proof demand and then ignored. Hardly a valid way of making your ideas accepted by rational people.


As for Greg, he is the self-declared Liberal Poster Boy- How dare you say otherwise!! ;)

He makes Liberals look bad- yet I notice no effort to rein him in.

See his continued use of BSBruce...about me- My posts are deleted when I use GregtrF, or try to defend myself from his attacks- But then, he's "special".

Subject: RE: BS: A new political low take 2
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Dec 16 - 12:15 PM

I think that quite nicely fits in to politics in general hitting a new low, Jim. Maybe it is my age and looking at the past through rose tinted specs but it is only in the last 10 years or so that I recall so much negativity going on. People no longer seem to vote for politicians and policies but against them. Campaigns are geared around peoples fears. People like Farage and Trump have cashed in greatly and, to be honest, I don't blame them.

If people are viewing mainstream politicians as so corrupt and so similar in style regardless of the party then the mavericks will make a killing. A quick spell at the soap box and the support of the popular press seems to be all they need to get the electorate so wound up about immigrants or terrorists or whatever they have latched on to.

Wasn't like that when I was a lad...

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: A new political low take 2
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Dec 16 - 12:14 PM

Russia did not politically assassinate Hillary.
We did that ourselves by believing innuendo.


Jim did you know 2 years ago a radio talk jock convinced the entire State of Texas that UN troops were about to invade Texas. The Governor even responded with the National Guard.



Trump will be sure to buy some freeze dried survivalist food companies before he rattles his nuclear sabre.

Subject: RE: BS: A new political low take 2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Dec 16 - 11:59 AM

From today's Times
Jim Carroll

Hackers working for the Kremlin Targeted all walks of life in the West, says FBI
Mark Bridge
Russia is committed to a longstanding cybercampaign against the American government and its citizens in every arena, from politics to business and education, intelligence services have claimed.
In a joint report, the FBI and Department of Homeland Security said that the same Kremlin-backed hackers had been involved in multiple attacks. This fits with revelations in The Times this month that Russian hackers have attempted attacks on British targets.
The report said that covert Russian operations, codenamed Grizzly Steppe by US officials, were based around so¬phisticated "spearphishing" campaigns.
They used the tactics to access the computer systems of government orga¬nisations, critical infrastructure, think tanks, universities, political organisa¬tions, and corporations, leading to the theft of information.
It confirmed that recent big attacks were the works of the Kremlin-backed groups known as Cozy Bear and Fancy Bear, as private security operators had previously stated.
The report included an account of successful cyberattacks on the Demo¬cratic National Committee, which led to the damaging leaks of correspond¬ence between senior party figures by WikiLeaks. Investigators said Cozy Bear broke into the party's computer systems in the summer of last year, and Fancy Bear entered in spring this year.
It said Cozy Bear crafted spearphishing campaigns, where recipients of an email were enticed to open it because they thought it was from an official source. Once they did this, their computer was infected by "remote access tools" or RATs, giving them entry to all other computers on the network.
Fancy Bear worked slightly different¬ly, it said, creating fake domains that tricked people into entering legitimate credentials. The group compromised the party by sending a spearphishing email which tricked recipients into changing their passwords through a fake webmail domain. The email that tricked senior democrats such as John Podesta, Hillary Clinton's campaign chairman, contained a link that looked like a legitimate Google web address.
Using the harvested credentials, Fancy Bear was able to gain access and steal content, leading to the leaked emails from senior Democratic Party figures. "The US Government assesses that information was leaked to the press and publicly disclosed," the report continued, prompting some critics to complain it was stating the obvious.
The jargon-heavy report continued: "Once they have access to victims, both groups exfiltrate and analyse informa¬tion to gain intelligence value. These groups use this information to craft [further] highly targeted spearphishing campaigns. These (groups] set up operational infrastructure to obfuscate their source infrastructure, host domains and malware for targeting organizations, establish command and control nodes, and harvest credentials and other valuable information."
Spearphishing attacks are essentially the same as the Nigerian "phishing" attacks most British internet users are now wise to. The US government report indicated that the Russian attacks were particularly convincing, however.
Russia Today, the state-backed media outlet, responded to the US report by tweeting a picture of a grizzly bear ap¬parently playing a guitar.
The Times Dec 30th

Subject: RE: BS: A new political low take 2
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Dec 16 - 11:59 AM

Bruce your need of reply regarding 'not a proven statement' is an example of how I do not understand your request. In my mindset I do not know how to justify truth, existence and life long observation. I think there is more than one mouthful in my words.

Your answer could be contained in a book about political hypnosis but I have not written it. If I did your mindset may still not understand it. There are books on the Hitler propaganda techniques and today's post truth age. I am not wise cracking here.

Subject: RE: BS: A new political low take 2
From: Greg F.
Date: 30 Dec 16 - 11:41 AM

The point was that the statement I made was that something was NOT proven.

Exactly. As was mine. And you still don't get it.

Sorry, Donuel. I yam what I yam.

Subject: RE: BS: A new political low take 2
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Dec 16 - 11:36 AM

Steve, mystery solved.

I had consciously forgotten your reply to a post of mine that had the phrase "and now back to reality" That was combined with other negative associations I had with that phrase.

It serves as a good example of how we can accidentally make false assumptions or associations without awareness. Or maybe my ego didn't like the smart ass comment. Cool?

We all should try to ego proof ourselves but TRUMP SIMPLY CAN NOT.



Greg you are anathema to my social science theory and practice.

Subject: RE: BS: A new political low take 2
From: beardedbruce
Date: 30 Dec 16 - 11:36 AM

The point was that the statement I made was that something was NOT proven.


Your comment is of no value, as it seems is your existence.

Donuel is invited to provide some support for his statements, should he wish to do so.

You are invited to take a long walk off the shortest pier that you can find.

Subject: RE: BS: A new political low take 2
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Dec 16 - 11:12 AM

HAHAHA DtG Olive branch...
That caught me off guard and lost some coffee.

Stanislav figured that his instruments made no sense so he used his own sense and averted a nuclear holocaust. The websites people chose are like our own instruments and I believe some of them do not make sense. This true of red and blue.

Subject: RE: BS: A new political low take 2
From: beardedbruce
Date: 30 Dec 16 - 11:01 AM

So, you believe there are Unicorns in Ohio, Greggie?


Should have figured that.

Subject: RE: BS: A new political low take 2
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Dec 16 - 11:00 AM

I'm not sure where Stan came in but I am in full agreement about

One might see an insult or lie and another will not or can not see it.
You know that the one person whose mind can not be changed is not the one who will grant your wish for understanding.
Instead we must find things of agreement first, even the mundane, and little by little we will learn a common language.

It is what I have been trying to say and, in my own way, trying to do on the thread named something about 'usual suspects'. It is what I have been unsuccessful in trying to explain why there is no point in starting from so far apart that we cannot even see each other. It is why we need to concentrate more on similarities than differences.

I suspect I will have my olive branch shoved up my arse yet agian though :-(

Thanks for trying anyway Donuel.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: A new political low take 2
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Dec 16 - 10:57 AM

Steve I can't put my finger on why I felt a need to prod your ego but I did and understand your request.

Subject: RE: BS: A new political low take 2
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Dec 16 - 10:49 AM

Any time my dad said "you always..." it made me mad.

I am guilty of saying "you always".
Part of me is becoming my dad.
I think most guys are becoming their dad.

For the second time since we are without previous precedent, law and are in danger of having the proletariats believe intellectuals are an enemy of the state, we need to listen to each other and let some things go.

What we do by nature is only react to the most recent offense to our own way of thinking. Common ground on Earth and perhaps a higher perspective are needed. We are starting to accept Nuclear War again justified by Conspiracy Theory. ( I kid you not )

Let it go is an olde lesson but it must be done

Some folks are smarter about some things, let it go
Robots are better at some things, let it go
Some sermons and theories are not true, let it go.
We all have abilities and disabilities, let it go.
(except for the fully actualized person who is perfect but nobody is perfect.)

One might see an insult or lie and another will not or can not see it.
You know that the one person whose mind can not be changed is not the one who will grant your wish for understanding.
Instead we must find things of agreement first, even the mundane, and little by little we will learn a common language.

1% agreement may be enough to save everyone.

On Sept 25th 1983 we were all saved by Stan. He was an employee, a soldier who reported a false alarm of incoming nukes despite the fact all instruments and alarms said otherwise. His treason or thinking for himself saved YOU. He was Russian but this scenario has happened almost 20 times since.

Subject: RE: BS: A new political low take 2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Dec 16 - 10:32 AM

Donuel, I care not a jot about people expressing criticisms of me on this forum. It goes with the territory. It would be good, however, if you could couch such criticisms in language that I can actually understand.

Subject: RE: BS: A new political low take 2
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Dec 16 - 10:11 AM

No need to come to a conclusion, ake. It is there in black and white.

Subject: RE: BS: A new politcal low?
From: Acme - PM
Date: 22 Dec 16 - 10:48 AM

Ake, you're the troll, and you've tangled this thread into a hot mess.

This Thread Is Closed.

If anyone doubts the veracity of that please feel free to follow this link.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: A new political low take 2
From: akenaton
Date: 30 Dec 16 - 10:05 AM

I got the last thread closed? how did you come to that conclusion?
I have been told that it was because of aggressive posting, something I do not indulge in.
If there is a rule regarding what political views are permitted, I am unaware of it

Subject: RE: BS: A new political low take 2
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Dec 16 - 09:56 AM

Yes Keith. Saying an opinion that is not evidenced by your rules is just a whim from an empty head is not the same as saying I have an empty head. Asking if it OK to call a grieving widower an arsehole is not the same as calling that widower and arsehole. Saying that someone has made their point and you can like it or lump it is not the same as asking someone politely to fuck off. We can all make up silly little rules to suit our games but not everyone has to abide buy them. I chose to base my opinions of 60+ years of experience, the experience of my peers, friends and family and the voices of those political commentators I respect, such as Owen Jones. You, for some reason, do not believe that is good enough. I believe it is. Where do we go from here?

Ake, you got the last thread closed. Does that not tell you something?

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: A new political low take 2
From: akenaton
Date: 30 Dec 16 - 09:54 AM

"Elections should end at our shores" a good principle Don but one which has never been observed.....the CIA have been complicit in the rigging of more elections, in more countries than I can remember.
President Obama has seen fit to intervene personally in at least two of the latest UK elections.

The allegations that the hacking of DPC files was ordered by the Russian state are simply allegations.....no proof of their voracity has been offered.

You remarks regarding the closing of threads being exclusively the fault of "right wing members" is simply not true, as many threads in which I had taken part have had to be closed by admin because of the vicious personal abuse from "liberal" members. If you like I can reprint some of it, those who are still contributing here will not be proud of their behaviour.

Subject: RE: BS: A new political low take 2
From: beardedbruce
Date: 30 Dec 16 - 09:41 AM

Donuel,

"2 When the purpose is to instigate a knee jerk closing of a thread it is always done by right wing extremists."

This is verifiably NOT a factual statement, unless you mean to say that when the Left does so it is OK, but when the Right does so the thread is closed.



"The right speaks the language of the emotional but not factually true

The left speaks the language of intellectual cause and effect and effect."


Not a proven statement by any means. I have been seeing statements here about Trump that, if made about Obama, would have the thread closed. Seems like the rules change when it is the majority viewpoint that is under attack.

Subject: RE: BS: A new political low take 2
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Dec 16 - 09:35 AM

"my fanciful post points out...

elections must end at or shores..

even though borders from a higher perspective are not real."

Subject: RE: BS: A new political low take 2
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Dec 16 - 09:28 AM

DtG, you can go back 12 years and see people accusing admin for mudcat for being fascist for different reasons.

It was said that the BS section is what you make it .

My fanciful points out that we all are reacting to a monumental shift in a perception of reality that has been foisted upon us all that no longer has rules, no longer has precedent, no longer has seriously obeys law. There is an abeyance of access to the President but instead spokes people who deal out misinformation and confusion to hide the fact Trump is a linear no nothing except personal profit by lies.

I don't give a crap about who swears at who

1 Its friendly fun sometimes

2 When the purpose is to instigate a knee jerk closing of a thread it is always done by right wing extremists. Why Steve complies with that UGIdiot's strategy is not smart or helpful from my pov but having a temperament is everyone's personal choice.

3   swearing is part of our lexicon.


We are doing our best to learn how to deal with the short sighted politics of white identity and global fascism. Watching Democracy gradually evaporate is not my idea of time well spent.


The right speaks the language of the emotional but not factually true

The left speaks the language of intellectual cause and effect and effect.

They do not speak the same language so rarely listen to one another. It is a dialog of reacting to the latest outrageous claim.




Elections used to end at our shores. That has now been violated.

On this we must all agree on THIS or nothing we know as citizenship or borders or sovereignty will exist. The anti globalist can become the biggest globalist of all.


Let us have thicker skin than Trump.

Subject: RE: BS: A new political low take 2
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Dec 16 - 09:08 AM

Dave,
There you go again, Keith. Telling us what Mudcat is.

No. I told you what Mudcat says it is.
"The Mudcat Cafe is a music discussion forum. "
We now also have below the line for non-music discussion but it defines itself as a "discussion forum."

From your OP of this thread,
"Maybe this time we can have a sensible discussion."

So you are now disagreeing not just with me, but with Mudcat and yourself too.

This is a discussion forum Dave.
If you post controversial and contentious statements you must expect to be asked to support them and to have them challenged.
That is what the rest of us come here for.

I also expect to be treated with respect and not be told I am empty headed because I do not fit in with your 'rules'

I did no such thing Dave. Why pretend it?

I said,
"Like arseholes, everyone has an opinion.
Unless you can justify it, it is of no more interest than your arsehole is.
Just a whim from an empty head. "

If you really have no actual knowledge or facts to base your opinions on, it is fair comment.
You did say that you were just choosing not to divulge the knowledge and facts behind your claims.
Refusing to engage in discussion, on a discussion forum, in a thread you started by asking for discussion!

If you are only interested in discussions I can save you a lot of work - Just stay away from the threads that do not fit your criteria.
All threads do, including this one.

Jim, again everything you just said about me is a lie.
Just more personal abuse. This is not about me or any individual apart from Farage.
Instead of trying to fake a "track record" to use in a personal attack, discuss the issues.
Quote us Farage saying the despicable things you accuse him of.
Why can't you do that simple thing Jim?
Is any of it true or not?

Subject: RE: BS: A new political low take 2
From: akenaton
Date: 30 Dec 16 - 09:06 AM

Keith is no troll Jim....he deals in facts, rarely opinions.

"There you go again, Keith. Telling us what Mudcat is. It is many things to many people. I shall use it and post to it as I see fit until such a time that I am told otherwise"
This is the contribution of a proper devious troll, he starts thread after thread with the intention of provoking not discussion but aggression.

The "new political low" thread being a perfect example.

Subject: RE: BS: A new political low take 2
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Dec 16 - 08:08 AM

"Jim, Keith is entitled to his opinions as you are to yours and I am to mine. "
Dave - I talk about his track record of behaviour on thread after thread over a number of years - if it were a matter of his opinions alone - fine, we could move on and agree to disagree, but his terrier like quest in winning something, in my opinion, has become detrimental to genuinely enchanting information.
He shows no interest in debating, just in winning, and is prone to crowing when he believes he has done so.
Some of his opinions I believe to be offensive, even to the extent of being illegal elsewhere.
I understand there used to be a number of Muslims on this forum - there no loger are - a great pity on a musoc thread, in my opinion.
If I were of that faith, I wouldn't hang around too long to be told I am a danger to underage girls because of my culture.
Keith is not the only one, of course -
I have no doubt there are a number of homosexuals sharing ideas with us - several have stated so
I can imagine how I would feel to be told I am a disease carrying pervert whose sexual orientation is a conscious choice
Perhaps it's not a bad time of year for a couple of us to start reforming our social behaviour and considering others.
Happy New Year to all who deserve one
Jim Carroll