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BS: Theresa May's new year message

Allan Conn 06 Jan 17 - 04:58 AM
Dave the Gnome 06 Jan 17 - 04:48 AM
Keith A of Hertford 06 Jan 17 - 04:31 AM
Keith A of Hertford 06 Jan 17 - 04:22 AM
Jim Carroll 05 Jan 17 - 03:12 PM
Jim Carroll 05 Jan 17 - 02:26 PM
akenaton 05 Jan 17 - 01:11 PM
Dave the Gnome 05 Jan 17 - 01:11 PM
Keith A of Hertford 05 Jan 17 - 12:58 PM
Jim Carroll 05 Jan 17 - 10:04 AM
Jim Carroll 05 Jan 17 - 10:02 AM
Dave the Gnome 05 Jan 17 - 09:27 AM
Keith A of Hertford 05 Jan 17 - 08:42 AM
Dave the Gnome 05 Jan 17 - 08:16 AM
Dave the Gnome 05 Jan 17 - 07:55 AM
Keith A of Hertford 05 Jan 17 - 07:36 AM
Nigel Parsons 05 Jan 17 - 07:27 AM
akenaton 05 Jan 17 - 07:05 AM
Jim Carroll 05 Jan 17 - 06:46 AM
Dave the Gnome 05 Jan 17 - 05:20 AM
Keith A of Hertford 05 Jan 17 - 04:52 AM
Jim Carroll 05 Jan 17 - 03:56 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 04 Jan 17 - 05:18 PM
Keith A of Hertford 04 Jan 17 - 02:47 PM
Dave the Gnome 04 Jan 17 - 02:38 PM
Dave the Gnome 04 Jan 17 - 02:28 PM
Jim Carroll 04 Jan 17 - 01:24 PM
Steve Shaw 04 Jan 17 - 01:17 PM
Dave the Gnome 04 Jan 17 - 12:48 PM
Steve Shaw 04 Jan 17 - 12:46 PM
Dave the Gnome 04 Jan 17 - 12:42 PM
Keith A of Hertford 04 Jan 17 - 12:35 PM
Dave the Gnome 04 Jan 17 - 12:18 PM
Steve Shaw 04 Jan 17 - 12:08 PM
Keith A of Hertford 04 Jan 17 - 11:36 AM
Backwoodsman 04 Jan 17 - 11:25 AM
Jim Carroll 04 Jan 17 - 11:13 AM
Dave the Gnome 04 Jan 17 - 10:56 AM
Jim Carroll 04 Jan 17 - 10:45 AM
Dave the Gnome 04 Jan 17 - 10:32 AM
Keith A of Hertford 04 Jan 17 - 10:02 AM
Jim Carroll 04 Jan 17 - 09:46 AM
Dave the Gnome 04 Jan 17 - 09:22 AM
Keith A of Hertford 04 Jan 17 - 09:11 AM
Jim Carroll 04 Jan 17 - 07:53 AM
Jim Carroll 04 Jan 17 - 07:00 AM
Jim Carroll 04 Jan 17 - 06:55 AM
Dave the Gnome 04 Jan 17 - 06:38 AM
Steve Shaw 04 Jan 17 - 06:13 AM
Keith A of Hertford 04 Jan 17 - 05:20 AM
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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Allan Conn
Date: 06 Jan 17 - 04:58 AM

I've got to say there does indeed seem to be an element of racism within UKIP. Not just talking about the obvious examples like Farage's poster etc. Prior to the 2015 election UKIP councillor Rozanne Duncan was expelled by Farage after she openly spouted racism in front of the cameras. However watching the documentary "Meet The Ukippers" it seemed to me that she was expelled for being caught out on TV rather than what she believed. Prospective candidates seemed to be instructed more to "not say anything racist which could land us in it" much more than "we don't want anyone with racist views standing for us"


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Jan 17 - 04:48 AM

Ne'er the twain...

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Jan 17 - 04:31 AM

Whoops,
Final line should have followed the "inflammatory" quote.

We are all of an age where we have experienced the loss of people very close to us.
We know that the grief and sense of loss never goes away, but after a few weeks life has to go on.
We throw ourselves into our work and do not want or expect to be treated with kid gloves or wrapped in cotton wool for ever.

With Brendan that is politics.
He publicly criticised a prominent and outspoken politician knowing he could be relied on to produce a cutting and contentious reply.

I doubt he approves of some on the Left trying to use his grief and loss to gain political advantage.
That is just sick.


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Jan 17 - 04:22 AM

Dave,
First, he is talking about a widower whose wife

No he was not! He was talking about a political organisation.

Second, he smeared an organisation that exists to drive back racism

It is just another political organisation, not some Crusaders for Righteousness! Of course it is OK to criticise them and challenge their methods. If he is right about their use of violence, it is no smear.

inflammatory by politicians including Nigel Farage.

Jim,
how Ukip is generally regarded, not just by the left, but by the country as a whole

London is not like the rest of the country.
It voted strongly to remain.
It elected a Labour Mayor.

Its main local broadcaster is LBC.
Would they appoint a presenter its audience would see as loathsome or repulsive?
Of course not, but they have just appointed Farage as presenter.
But you can not quote a single inflammatory statement from him.


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Jan 17 - 03:12 PM

By th way
You choose to ignore the evidence that has been put upon Farage and his party, what other are saying, how Ukip is generally regarded, not just by the left, but by the country as a whole
You offer no opposition to those facts to counteract those attitudes and facts - only denial.
This makes you not only a supporter of Ukip's racism, but a dishonest person.
The point of taking part in these discussions is to share views and to argue, if necessary
Unqualified denial seems to have replaced both with several people.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Jan 17 - 02:26 PM

"There are no racists on this forum, b"
I have made a point of why I believe you to be a racist
That was you stance on thos armbands - say it was not
I am not vicious - your racism is vicious as is your homophobia
I detest both
If people's opinions are racist, that is what they are
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: akenaton
Date: 05 Jan 17 - 01:11 PM

"I chose the 'Blacks, dogs, Irish' headline because of what the article said about Ukip's policy – of course Farage never used those words, but that's what he stands for"

You choose it like you choose to use all the other forms of demonization to obscure the paucity of your argument, you are a vicious person Jim.
There are no racists on this forum, but people must be free to give their opinions on issues like uncontrolled immigration as they have very important long term effects on society


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Jan 17 - 01:11 PM

Nothing remotely "loathsome" from Farage has been produced by you.

Farage's response in turn – that Cox "would know more about extremists than me" because of his links to the anti-fascist organisation Hope Not Hate – is shocking on a number of levels. First, he is talking about a widower whose wife was murdered by an extremist six months ago. Second, he smeared an organisation that exists to drive back racism – at a time when hate crimes have surged after a referendum campaign made inflammatory by politicians including Nigel Farage.

That is, in my opinion, loathsome. Many people agree with me. You don't. No point in continuing.


DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Jan 17 - 12:58 PM

Dave,
I can safely predict that you will simply dismiss it

I did not just dismiss it. I gave a point by point analysis of it.
Nothing remotely "loathsome" from Farage has been produced by you.

Jim,
Ukip has taken its lesson from its sister party, the BNP

Complete shit! They have nothing in common. Care to challenge that?

Ukip is a party of incitement to race hatred, it has climbed the greasy political pole on such a policy

No. It was just the only party with an anti-EU policy which proved to be quite popular.

he is a racist because he continued to insist that refugees be forced to continue wearing "Yellow-Star type" identification and have their front doors an identifying colour

He did not obviously. Smears and made up shit.


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Jan 17 - 10:04 AM

"!Nigel chooses to sidestep"
Parsons, not Farage, of course!
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Jan 17 - 10:02 AM

You don't have to use terms like "coon", or "Yid" to be a racist or a bigot, (how many preface their racism with "some of my best friends are....?") - all you need to do is to target foreigners, claim their presence is detrimental to the well-being of the native population and make their lives generally miserable and dangerous, which is exactly what Ukip does – it has no policy beyond this.
Ukip has taken its lesson from its sister party, the BNP, - if you want t get ahead in politics, you have to learn to guard your tongue.
Ukip is a party of incitement to race hatred, it has climbed the greasy political pole on such a policy
I chose the 'Blacks, dogs, Irish' headline because of what the article said about Ukip's policy – of course Farage never used those words, but that's what he stands for – I also chose it for where it appeared – in a right wing paper, the mouthpiece of the Tory establishment – which regards Ukip as too right even for them.
Nigel chooses to sidestep the essence of the argument and set up a smokescreen.
Ake isn't a racist because he refers to "towelheads" – he is a racist because he continued to insist that refugees be forced to continue wearing "Yellow-Star type" identification and have their front doors an identifying colour long after even the most gutter of the gutter rightwing press had condemned it as dangerous and racist.
By your own words shall ye bee known.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Jan 17 - 09:27 AM

I can safely predict that you will simply dismiss it, underlining the fact that we are working to different moralities and there is no point continuing.

:D tG


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Jan 17 - 08:42 AM

Dave,
First, he is talking about a widower whose wife was murdered by an extremist six months ago

That is not shocking because Brendan instigated the exchange, criticising Farage.

Second, he smeared an organisation that exists to drive back racism
Did he? I think it was legitimate criticism of an organisation hostile to non-fascist, non-racist UKIP, that Farage states has used violence to disrupt harmless UKIP meetings.

at a time when hate crimes have surged after a referendum campaign made inflammatory by politicians including Nigel Farage.

You have been unable to produce anything inflammatory from Farage.
I do not believe he has been at all inflammatory, but am open to being proved wrong.

In case it is unclear the bit in quotes starts the Farage despicable quote.

Here is the whole quote. Please explain what is despicable in it?
"Well, of course, he would know more about extremists than me, Mr Cox, he backs organisations like Hope Not Hate, who masquerade as being lovely and peaceful but actually pursue violent and very undemocratic means."

'is shocking' begins an explanation of why he is loathsome

I have explained above why it does not do that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Jan 17 - 08:16 AM

But, if I do have to repeat myself again I may as well just C&P the same clip. Put it on Google Keep for reference.

Just put up a quote that to you is loathsome.

Farage's response in turn – that Cox "would know more about extremists than me" because of his links to the anti-fascist organisation Hope Not Hate – is shocking on a number of levels. First, he is talking about a widower whose wife was murdered by an extremist six months ago. Second, he smeared an organisation that exists to drive back racism – at a time when hate crimes have surged after a referendum campaign made inflammatory by politicians including Nigel Farage.

In case it is unclear the bit in quotes starts the Farage despicable quote. 'is shocking' begins an explanation of why he is loathsome. I can safely predict that you will simply dismiss it, underlining the fact that we are working to different moralities and there is no point continuing.

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Jan 17 - 07:55 AM

No point in putting any more evidence than I have. See earlier comment.

Different moralities does not equate to morally superior. Do not put words in my mouth.

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Jan 17 - 07:36 AM

Dave,
Many people have produced upmpteen quotes and actions that earn him that reputation with me and millions of others.

Really. How did I miss them?
No need for "umpteen." Just give us a few of the very worst and I will have to concede that you were right all along.

We are working to a different morality

Do not kid yourself that you are morally superior.
Just put up a quote that to you is loathsome.
Why is that so hard for you?

Jim,
Waste of time Dave - put as much evidence as you want up and unless it conforms to keith's Born-Again Faragianity itt doesn't exist

Put up a loathsome quote from him then Jim.
Why is that so hard for you?

so soon after claiming he wasn't a supporter.

I am not a supporter. Just anti-EU.


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 05 Jan 17 - 07:27 AM

Of course Jim has put up evidence. He gave a link to "No Blacks, no Dogs, no Irish" which linked clearly to quotes from Nigel Farage.
The fact that none of the quotes given in that article have him using those terms doesn't diminish his headline link. Does it??


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: akenaton
Date: 05 Jan 17 - 07:05 AM

You haven't put up any evidence at al, just your opinions and those of like minded "lefties"

Keith is right ,you don't like his politics so you demonise the man.
You do the same on every issue....according to you lot we are all racists xenophobes homophobes for having the effrontery, to discuss controversial subjects....subjects which you do not wish to have discussed in case the discussion exposes the weakness of your argument.


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Jan 17 - 06:46 AM

Waste of time Dave - put as much evidence as you want up and unless it conforms to keith's Born-Again Faragianity itt doesn't exist - so soon after claiming he wasn't a supporter.
His must have had a visitation from Three Wise Ukippers over the Christmas.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Jan 17 - 05:20 AM

Many people have produced upmpteen quotes and actions that earn him that reputation with me and millions of others. You do not accept that the ones that have been produced warrant the reputation he has. I do. We are working to a different morality so there is no point in continuing. No winners. No losers. Different games. Different planet.

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Jan 17 - 04:52 AM

Steve, Dave and Jim,
He's changed, Dave. He rarely says "you lose" these days after all the piss-taking he's endured over it. It's far more likely to be "good luck with that!" these days.

Do not worry. I have not changed.

You have recently tried to show that Farage can be describes as not just an unpleasant personality and enemy of the Left, but "loathsome" and "repulsive."

The three of you have failed to produce a single quote between you that could earn such sobriquets, so you have failed to make your case.
If you want to put it that way, you lost.

However, it is never too late.
Produce such a quote and I will concede and acknowledge your success at once.
(Not just a link to an article though, unless it contains such a quote in which case just give us the quote)

Good luck with that lads.


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Jan 17 - 03:56 AM

Lizzie seems like a breath of fresh air here - we've all been too busy genuflecting to our resident cretin.
Back to sanity
Britain's ambassador to the U.N., Ivan Rogers, has resigned from his job, leaving Brexit in total chaos - he accuses May of being a "control freak".
According to Rogers, while the other European ministers are ferreting away, preparing to get rid of the British cuckoo in the nest, there is no longer a British voice in those negotiations.
Brexit appears to have moved from a 'little Britain' sit-com to a Whitehall farce.
Whence Brexit now?
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 04 Jan 17 - 05:18 PM

From Teribus: "How odd Lizzie, in that diatribe not one word about the person who raided the pension funds to buy votes to keep himself and Labour in power."

Not odd at all...the thread's about Theresa May, not Brown, and about our STATE pensions, not private ones.

Brown's a bastard too though...very odd bloke...

None of these Inhuman Humans are made to be accountable for what they do to others...

Osborne speeded it all up, Webb (who's just been knighted) (Lib Dem) made it worse by adding another year to us in 2011, also giving men an extra year (why have you all so mildly accepted this?)

May says whatever comes into her head...

Osborne, Cameron, IDS, Crabb, May, etc.etc. all call themselves Christians, whilst they throw us to the lions...

I'm so, SO done with these scumbags, and quite WHY my country hasn't taken to the streets, I've NO idea, other than we've all be kept down so long we can't get up anymore...

Meanwhile, Osborne and Cameron make £Hundreds of £thousands from giving speeches on how wonderful they are, whilst The People sleep on the streets, whilst the sick, disabled, dying and unemployed, along with we 1950s women are sent through their vile, evil Welfare System, humiliated, degraded, tested, assessed....

I hate them all and I'll hate them to my dying day...and if I come back again in another life, I'll STILL hate them all, for they are socipaths and psychopaths, who turn their false smiles off when the camera disappears, just as they spit out their false words later on, the kindness within those words burning their criminal mouths....

This is the most brutal, ghastly, hideous regime EVER to have ruled over us in my lifetime and my Darlin' Dad went to war AGAINST such evil brutes....

As to IDS, he should be arrested and charged with Gross Negligence Manslaughter, as should they all, but IDS will have a very special place in hell, for sure....

Go and see 'I, Daniel Blake', Ken Loach's new film, to truly understand what is going on...and it's not fake, it's not made up...it's EXACTLY what's happening in this sodding country of mine and May, in her Designer Outfits and Designer Shoes, alongside Cameron in his ££clothing too, couldn't give a DAMN.

Anyone who thinks she does, who thinks Cameron did too is mad, quite, quite mad and must have been sprayed with Stupid Spray on the day the entire country got done....

I was indoors......

PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF!


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Jan 17 - 02:47 PM

1. All the articles criticise Farage in some way. As do many people. I feel I am in good comapany once again.

Me too. I agree Dave.

2. Anything loathsome to you will also be to me That is nonsense. I find what Farage did repulsive.

Presumably you mean what he said.
"Well, he would know more about extremists than me, wouldn't he. He backs organisations like Hope Not Hate, who masquerade as being lovely and peaceful, but actually pursue violent and very undemocratic means."

Is that what you find "loathsome" and "repulsive." If so we are indeed different. He seems to be just criticising an organisation that has been very hostile to him and his followers.

So, we are to exclude all those who are against him and only include things from those who like him?

Certainly not, but they also failed to identify what they find so abhorrent. It appears to be based just on prejudice because of his politics.

I HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THE LOATHSOME THING HE HAS JUST DONE TO A GRIEVING WIDOWER.

He did not do anything to him.
In reply to the attack on himself, he criticised the organisation he supports. Farage did not respond to the twitter attack. He let it go, but then he was asked to respond live on radio. No insults. No abuse. No loathing. Only criticism of the organisation.

We have seen how it works with the right wingers on here - No input allowed from anyone slightly left of Enoch Powell. Anything to do with Corbyn is evil.

No one here acts like that. Making up shit yourself now.


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Jan 17 - 02:38 PM

Should have been "too see any good in anyone else"

Sorry.

D.


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Jan 17 - 02:28 PM

In an effort to get the thread back on track can I just point out that the opening post was the premise about Theresa May maybe showing a softer side to the administration that we have seen for the last few years. I know and accept all the points about Tories and lack of care for the working class but my worry is that we can become too involved in the left to see any good. I don't want to end up like a McCarthyite American declaring 'The only good Tory is a dead Tory'. It is wrong to tar a whole group of people because of the actions of a few, surely?

We have seen how it works with the right wingers on here - No input allowed from anyone slightly left of Enoch Powell. Anything to do with Corbyn is evil. So on and so forth. We need to watch we don't become as bad as that. Mind you, I suppose politics and religion, unlike colour, nationality or sexual inclinations are a choice...

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Jan 17 - 01:24 PM

"You're all falling for it again! Don't feed the fucking troll!"
Totally with Backwoodsman here - we really are falling for it again
I doubt if he'll go away but he doesn't have to be humoured.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Jan 17 - 01:17 PM

He's changed, Dave. He rarely says "you lose" these days after all the piss-taking he's endured over it. It's far more likely to be "good luck with that!" these days.


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Jan 17 - 12:48 PM

Please. Just one thing. The most loathsome thing he has ever said or done.

I HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THE LOATHSOME THING HE HAS JUST DONE TO A GRIEVING WIDOWER.

But, yes Keith. You win. I am running away in the same way any sane man would run. I cannot stand banging my head on a brick wall any longer so, I guess, I lose.

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Jan 17 - 12:46 PM

"I do not approve of lying"

In which case you must be absolutely full of self-loathing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Jan 17 - 12:42 PM

Before I do give up though there are some things I must point out.

1. All the articles criticise Farage in some way. As do many people. I feel I am in good comapany once again.
2. Anything loathsome to you will also be to me That is nonsense. I find what Farage did repulsive. You don't. We are therefore working to different moralities whether you like it or not.
3. Not the opinions of left wingers who hate him for his politics So, we are to exclude all those who are against him and only include things from those who like him? I shall remind you of my words. Loads and loads more that I know you will dismiss as prejudice, empty headed, against you, just plain abusive or not currently wearing the right colour of socks.

Different morality. Different language. Different planet mate...

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Jan 17 - 12:35 PM

Steve,
Why is a politician's lie less loathsome than anyone else's lie, Keith?

I do not approve of lying, but Dave has previously said we should expect it from politicians.
I do not believe it is a lie. He really is not known for making false claims.
The organisation said it would sue and began raising money, but it has now gone quiet. I think that the claim could be stood up in court.

Dave,
I really do give up this time.

You are just running and hiding Dave, because you can not identify a single thing that he has ever said or done that could be described by a reasonable person as loathsome.

Go on. Prove me wrong. Please. Just one thing. The most loathsome thing he has ever said or done. What is the problem?


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Jan 17 - 12:18 PM

I really do give up this time.

Advice accepted BWM.

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Jan 17 - 12:08 PM

Why is a politician's lie less loathsome than anyone else's lie, Keith?

Mind you, I'm asking the wrong man...


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Jan 17 - 11:36 AM

Dave, one of those links is about Farage on Merkel, and they all refer to Farage on Cox.

You may not agree that Merkel's open door policy allowed dangerous people in as well as refugees, but that is a widely held and legitimate belief in Germany and elsewhere.

What is loathsome in it?

Brendan criticised Farage on Twitter, but Farage chose not to respond.
Nothing loathsome there.
Asked to respond live on radio, he accused Brendan's organisation of extremism.
How is that loathsome? He claims they used violence to disrupt meetings. A politician's lie IF not true, but why loathsome?

Please do not claim to be morally superior again.
Anything loathsome to you will also be to me. Just show it to me.

Not the opinions of left wingers who hate him for his politics, but something actually loathsome that he has ever said or done.
Why is that so hard?


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Jan 17 - 11:25 AM

You're all falling for it again!
Don't feed the fucking troll!


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Jan 17 - 11:13 AM

'Now, now, Jim"
's the truth Ruth (that dates me, can't even remember who used to sing it)
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Jan 17 - 10:56 AM

Now, now, Jim :-)

D


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Jan 17 - 10:45 AM

All propaganda Dave
Standard defence nowadays
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Jan 17 - 10:32 AM

OK. Last chance. You ask for what I have seen that makes me consider him loathsome. I have already provided the answers which you proceeded to dismiss as being, what was it, the whims of an empty head. I'll repeat what I said before. There are plenty of articles that consider his actions despicable in the case of Brendan Cox and many other things. Take your choice.

the Independant

The BBC

The orignal Guardian piece

Huffington Post

New York Times

And then of course we have the reactions of MPs. I am not going to do all the work for you. Just look up the reactions of Tracy Brabin, Jess Phillips, David Lammy, Stella Creasy, Chris Bryant and a host of others.

These are what have helped to convince me he is loathsome. Serious political commentators, respected journalist, members of parliament. My friends, my family, many of my peers at work. Loads and loads more that I know you will dismiss as prejudice, empty headed, against you, just plain abusive or not currently wearing the right colour of socks.

I really have tried my best and I know it is my fault that I am not getting it across, but you need to ask yourself this question, Keith. If many other people can see it, why can you not?

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Jan 17 - 10:02 AM

Dave,
Yes I can, Keith, and have related lots of articles condemning the man for the very actions we are discussing.

None that I have seen has. Please remind us what they were.

The fact that you cannot see anything loathsome in what he has done says far more about you than me

Then show me up by describing something he has done that I should recognise as loathsome.

then there is no benefit to anyone in continuing down this track

Please to not run away without replying to the above.

Jim,
He hasn't - his party have,

UKIP have not. At least you now acknowledge that he has not either.

the party is based on xenophobia

Made up shit again Jim.

Let's leave it there Keith -

Please do not run away without justifying your ludicrous claims.
Good luck with that!


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Jan 17 - 09:46 AM

"He has never made such a claim, and does not oppose all immigration."
He hasn't - his party have, they have even expelled some extremist nutters - just as BNP has.
It doesn't make any difference what warm words the leader says - the party is based on xenophobia - their RACIST POSTER is based blatently on fear of foreigners and the strong-arm tactics of "Britain First" turn those fears into actions.
NO BLACKS, NO DOGS, NO IRISH - couldn't put it cleared than that
Let's leave it there Keith - you have made it clear what side you are on, despite previous protests.
Perhaps "out of the closet" was your New Year's resolution - Ukip today, Trump tomorrow.
Nothing like starting the year with a new broom, eh?
Dialogue over.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Jan 17 - 09:22 AM

Yes I can, Keith, and have related lots of articles condemning the man for the very actions we are discussing. The fact that you cannot see anything loathsome in what he has done says far more about you than me. You complained bitterly when I suggested that our moralities must be vastly different but, sorry, nothing you are doing here is helping to dissipate that feeling.

I suggest that as it is blatantly obvious we are singing off a different hymn sheet, possibly even inhabiting a different planet, then there is no benefit to anyone in continuing down this track. Maybe we can get back to Theresa May?

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Jan 17 - 09:11 AM

Dave, your belief is that he is a "loathsome character" but you can not relate anything "loathsome" that he has ever said or done.

Whatever your "years of human experience, the views of my friends and family, and the commentary of people like Owen Jones" if you are not aware of a single loathsome thing about him, your belief is just prejudice.

I have not misrepresented anything anyone has said.

Farage never called Brendan an extremist. Your claim that what he really said " is a sound bite intended to make people thing he has extremist links." is based on what?

I also believe that anyone trying to justify this toads actions is just as bad themselves.

But you can not recall any action that is loathsome or toadlike, or that can not be justified.

You are just prejudiced against this person because of his politics.
I am fully aware that many on the left share your prejudice. That does not make it right.


Jim,

His claims of threats to our way of life by migrants are not only false but they incite race hatred


He has never made such a claim, and does not oppose all immigration.


Both you and he may be "appalled" at racist violence, but both of you, with your claims against Moslems and immigrants in general, do much to incite it.


I have never made any "claims against Muslims or immigrants in general," and neither has Farage.
You are making up more shit Jim.


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Jan 17 - 07:53 AM

AND THIS

AND THIS

AND THIS

AND THIS

SEND IN THE POLES !!

And a latter-day British Union of Fascists, using 'Britain First' as the equivalent of the Blackshirts has the nerve to accuse Cox of supporting extremist violence!!
You have to admire their neck
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Jan 17 - 07:00 AM

BEG PARDON - THERE IS THIS!!
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Jan 17 - 06:55 AM

"Produce one Jim."
His claims of threats to our way of life by migrants are not only false but they incite race hatred
As I am able to find no examples of violence at Ukip meetings, apart from Mike (appropriately named ) Hookem punching a fellow member, we can safely assume that his claim against Mr Cox is also a fkeTher are no reports in the press, no reports of the police being called in, no prosecutions
The man is a liar.
Both you and he may be "appalled" at racist violence, but both of you, with your claims against Moslems and immigrants in general, do much to incite it.
Finished with this Keith - no more head-to-heads with you - you and he are a waste of space - he is dangerous, you are.... well... you!
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Jan 17 - 06:38 AM

You have been unable to justify your belief with anything Farage has actually said or done.
You even misrepresent what he has said, and claim he meant something else!
That makes it just prejudice.
I agree it is not a smear though.


No, I have justified my belief. It is based on years of human experience, the views of my friends and family, and the commentary of people like Owen Jones. That you do not accept my justification is of little consequence.

I have not misrepresented anything anyone has said. I did not provide the full quote but I provided the link and the full quote has been given elsewhere. I seem to remember that excuse from somewhere but, just in case the rules have changed yet again, the full quote is "Well, of course, he would know more about extremists than me, Mr Cox. He backs organisations like Hope Not Hate, who masquerade as being lovely and peaceful, but actually pursue violent and undemocratic means."

It is not just me that believes that this attack was despicable. Just look up the responses from all over the place. I particularly like this one from The Independant snippets from which include

At last someone has dared to say what all decent people are thinking, that men whose wives were murdered should stop whining, and get on with selling dresses on eBay.

and

There has always been a consensus that when someone is grieving, especially after a brutal murder, that it's polite to take their suffering into account before publicly insulting them a few months after the tragedy. This goes to show what a poncey effeminate society we've become.

There are countless such comments, many going a lot further than I do, so don't pretend that I am on my own I have made anything up.

Glad you agree it is not a smear though as I also believe that anyone trying to justify this toads actions is just as bad themselves.

Cheers

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Jan 17 - 06:13 AM

Teribus, you have owned up to Keith's error several times but he never has. And he never does. Had it been his only one I wouldn't have bothered, but it isn't. He's currently lying in his teeth, back to the wall, about the US failure to veto the latest UN resolution on the Israeli settlements. You really couldn't make it up. Well, he does, actually, routinely. It's there in the Labour thread. It's a sad, long saga of a read and I wouldn't be surprised if you can't be arsed with it. Sums your mate up to a tee.


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Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Jan 17 - 05:20 AM

"He is not known for making false claims,"
What!!!!!!!


Produce one Jim.

I suppose you don't support Ukip in the same way you don't support Farage??

I am not a supporter of either, but I have been anti-EU for many years.

Care to comment on the rise of racial violence following Ukip's successful efforts on Brexit?

I am appalled by it. So is Farage and UKIP.


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