BS: Theresa May's new year message

Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Thompson
Date: 03 Jan 17 - 04:26 AM

Isn't it funny the way people have started saying "I sit around the table" - is it to do with the increase in obesity? Surely she means "when I sit at the table"?

Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Jan 17 - 05:17 AM

Dave, I do not think smearing is reasonable behaviour, and it certainly has no place here.

Jim, Why bring up ancient, unrelated discussions when involved in a current discussion?
If you can not debate what is actually said here, why post at all?

Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Jan 17 - 06:13 AM

"... Blair was given three chances by THE ELECTORATE. May has yet to be given even one chance by THE ELECTORATE"

Ah so exactly the same as Gordon Brown then Shaw.

Absolutely! Brown, Blair, May, three cheeks of the same arse! Imagine that!

Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Jan 17 - 06:18 AM

"Jim, Why bring up ancient, unrelated discussions when involved in a current discussion?"
Because it explains where people like you, who have something to hide, are coming from
You will live with your Muslim cultural implant = sexual pervert and Jewish Plot statements as long as you contribute to this forum - live with it
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Jan 17 - 07:08 AM

"I do not think smearing is reasonable behaviour, and it certainly has no place here.
"You are forever calling things you don't agree with as "made up shit" - isn't that "smearing" or is it ok when you do it?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: akenaton
Date: 03 Jan 17 - 08:07 AM

Jim, what you have given is your opinion of what I meant, an opinion with which I strongly disagree.

Please quote me accurately and in context, then I may be able to relieve your obvious confusion.

You are a disgrace Jim.

Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Jan 17 - 08:20 AM

You've had this Ake and have already acknowleged some of it - I really have no intention of doing it again and f****** up this thread
You are what you are
"You are a disgrace Jim."
And you are a Nazi
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 03 Jan 17 - 10:00 AM

I really have no intention of doing it again and f****** up this thread
Too late!

Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Stu
Date: 03 Jan 17 - 10:46 AM

Again.

Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: bobad
Date: 03 Jan 17 - 10:54 AM

It's what he does.

Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Jan 17 - 11:10 AM

Jim,
"You are forever calling things you don't agree with as "made up shit" - isn't that "smearing" or is it ok when you do it?

It is not smearing if it is true.
I always give the actual quote and have never been shown to be wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Jan 17 - 11:46 AM

So, it is not smearing if it is true? What if it is neither corroborated nor proven? Such as Brendan Cox being an extremist? Or Hilary Clinton being a criminal?

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Stu
Date: 03 Jan 17 - 11:51 AM

They're all as bad as each other.

Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Jan 17 - 11:55 AM

Never been shown to be wrong? I demonstrated until I was blue in the face that you lied about Wheatcroft. You are currently lying about the attitude of US citizens to Israeli settlements in the Labour thread. Apart from a couple of your cronies here, Keith, we all know that nothing you ever say can be relied on. The truth is routinely subservient to your need to win. Hopeless.

Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Jan 17 - 12:21 PM

Steve,

Never been shown to be wrong? I demonstrated until I was blue in the face that you lied about Wheatcroft.

Not true Steve. You claimed I had misrepresented what Wheatcroft said, but in fact I quoted the relevant passage in full and verbatim.

Dave,
Such as Brendan Cox being an extremist?

What Farage actually said, "Well he would know more about extremists than me" was Nigel Farage's response to a criticism levelled at him by Mr Cox on Twitter.

He claimed that Brendan's organisation had used violence to disrupt UKIP events.

Or Hilary Clinton being a criminal?

Was she technically in breach of the laws governing security?
If she was it is technically a true statement and not a smear.

Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Jan 17 - 12:44 PM

If Brendan Cox is an extremist, why has he not been arrested? If Hilary Clinton is a criminal, why is she not in prison? Maybe a true statement is not a smear but there are ways of besmirching someone's character that is neither truth nor lies and the people I am speaking of are masters of it.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Jan 17 - 12:45 PM

Well here's a technically true statement.

"Daily Mail, eh? Well one owner of the Daily Mail was an enthusiastic supporter of the Nazis and Blackshirts!"

Whatever you think of today's Daily Mail (not much, in my case), that is both a technically true statement and one that is intended to be a smear. You are being disingenuous, Keith, yet another of your very many character flaws.

Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Jan 17 - 12:55 PM

"They're all as bad as each other."
Most of this forum is made up of honest, straightforward discussion
There are a couple of extremist exceptions who continue to make it a W.A.S.P., heterosexual site - personally, I find that extremely offensive and am prepared to put in a little effort to at least expose it.
You fellers want to pass by on the other side, fine by me - I was brought up to believe that if you see extremism, challenge it.
We already know that the few Muslim members of this forum are long gone - we also know that there a a number of self-declared gays and god knows how many who have chosen to stay silent about their sexuality.
Personally, I think it is unfair to allow some of the intolerance and hate towards these people to go unchallenged.
I have to say I find it disappointing that people who I largely admire and respect stay silent when this bigotry and hatred raises its intolerant head, yet leap up on their chairs in horror when it is challenged - but that's me!
I enjoy debate on this forum - I don't think I can be accused of not making a contribution to the debates, but I am inclined to loose my rag when I believe it is being ****** up by a small band of bigots.
Sorry to give offence - will do my best to put a lid on it when our resident bigots are out.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Jan 17 - 01:12 PM

Dave,

If Brendan Cox is an extremist, why has he not been arrested?

Who suggested he was?
Farage accused his organisation of using violence, and he is not known for making false claims.

If Hilary Clinton is a criminal, why is she not in prison?
Not all crimes are considered to be worth prosecuting.

Steve, I have no opinion on the Daily Mail. What is your point?

Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Jan 17 - 01:26 PM

Stop pretending to be thick, Keith. My point was perfectly clear.

Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Jan 17 - 01:35 PM

I do not know why you suddenly started attacking the Mail.
Where did that come from? Please explain.
I do not care about the Mail and have no opinion.

Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Jan 17 - 01:42 PM

As you well know, Keith, the language of politics is very flexible and does not follow the rules of the courtroom. "Well he would know more about extremists than me" is a sound bite intended to make people thing he has extremist links. Now, you may not think that and I may not think that. But plenty people, particularly Farage supporters, will now believe that Brendan Cox does have something to hide. No smoke without fire and all that.

Yes, not all crimes are considered to be worth prosecuting yet Trump was adamant that she would be arrested and drove his supporters into a frenzy with that smear. The simple fact that he has not followed up on it is a good indication that it was a lie. Something that, oooh, how did you put it earlier, will quietly be dropped?

But let us take another line. If a true statement cannot be a smear then if I were to say "I believe that Nigel Farage is a loathsome character" then it cannot possibly be a smear. Because it is the truth. That is what I believe. Once again I am reminded of Lewis Carroll but I think we all know the Humpty Dumpty quote about words meaning exactly what we want them to mean by now.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Jan 17 - 01:45 PM

I think Steve's point is, Keith, that his statement is both true and will be seen by many a smear. Of course, to those on the right wing it could also be the greatest compliment.

Steve, I have a bone to pick with you. Godwin's Law. Now you have been and gone and done it. Stick to bingo balls and sandal reading Guardian wearers or whatever it was.

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Iains
Date: 03 Jan 17 - 01:58 PM

I am hardly a newbie Jim. I have been posting since at least 2000.
Please endeavour to get your facts right.

Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Jan 17 - 02:03 PM

You do seem to have posted 8 messages in 2000 Iains and then had over 15 years before posting your next one! If I was more cynical I would say that was a ploy just to catch Jim out :-)

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Iains
Date: 03 Jan 17 - 02:10 PM

DtG a few more than that. Some must be homeless and circling endlessly in the ether.

Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Jan 17 - 02:40 PM

Name        Subject        Posted
1         Iains         Lyr Add: DUBLIN IN MY TEARS         07-Feb-00 - 06:22 AM
2         Iains         RE: Lyr/Chords Req: forty shades of green         09-Apr-00 - 09:53 PM
3         Iains         phonetically 'Arby Leeks?'         19-Apr-00 - 12:04 PM
4         Iains         RE: Lyr/Chords Req: phonetically 'Arby Leeks?'         19-Apr-00 - 03:39 PM
5         Iains         Farewell my Green Valleys?         22-Apr-00 - 02:53 PM
6         Iains         RE: Lyr Add: Farewell my Green Valleys?         22-Apr-00 - 04:52 PM
7         Iains         RE: Lyr Add: Farewell my Green Valleys?         23-Apr-00 - 09:27 AM
8         Iains         RE: Lyr Req: songs of the oilfield         02-Aug-00 - 07:20 PM
9         Iains         RE: BS: Cameron & Tax         09-Apr-16 - 07:49 AM

        Name        Subject        Posted
1         Iains         Lyr Add: DUBLIN IN MY TEARS         07-Feb-00 - 06:22 AM
2         Iains         RE: Lyr/Chords Req: forty shades of green         09-Apr-00 - 09:53 PM
3         Iains         phonetically 'Arby Leeks?'         19-Apr-00 - 12:04 PM
4         Iains         RE: Lyr/Chords Req: phonetically 'Arby Leeks?'         19-Apr-00 - 03:39 PM
5         Iains         Farewell my Green Valleys?         22-Apr-00 - 02:53 PM
6         Iains         RE: Lyr Add: Farewell my Green Valleys?         22-Apr-00 - 04:52 PM
7         Iains         RE: Lyr Add: Farewell my Green Valleys?         23-Apr-00 - 09:27 AM
8         Iains         RE: Lyr Req: songs of the oilfield         02-Aug-00 - 07:20 PM
9         Iains         RE: BS: Cameron & Tax         09-Apr-16 - 07:49 AM

8 in 2000. Nothing then until April 2016.

As many people are fond of saying on here. Get your facts right :-)

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Jan 17 - 02:47 PM

Whoops - sorry for the hiccup.

D.

Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Iains
Date: 03 Jan 17 - 03:04 PM

DtG When you lose your cookie you can only post as guest. And I have more useful things to do with my time than argue trivialities with the obsessed. Try and get a life!

Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Jan 17 - 03:05 PM

"Please endeavour to get your facts right."
I do Iains - please try to speak to the members of this forum with respect
As Dave has just pointed out, you are a newbie in relation to virtually all the posters here.
Your aggressive manner suggests I set out to offend you - I didn't - have the courtesy to reciprocate - it might help you to settle in, if you intend to.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Jan 17 - 03:15 PM

I have a life, thank you Iains and was simply pointing out that people in glass houses should not attempt to throw facts about. How about you try and get a sense of humour?

For the record, there are 27 posts by 'Guest,Iains'. Not exactly a huge difference to the point is it. Who were all your other posts by I wonder?

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Teribus
Date: 03 Jan 17 - 03:39 PM

DtG I think you are being deliberately obtuse.

At no time at all did Nigel Farrage EVER make any accusation of, state that, or imply that Brendan Cox was an extremist.

I say you are being deliberately obtuse because you persistently refuse to give the full quotation.

Farrage: "Well, he would know more about extremists than me, wouldn't he. He backs organisations like Hope Not Hate, who masquerade as being lovely and peaceful, but actually pursue violent and very undemocratic means."

Pretty bloody obvious to any sentient human being that it is the organisation "Hope not Hate" that is being accused of being "extremist" NOT Brendan Cox who only gave them money.

Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Teribus
Date: 03 Jan 17 - 03:54 PM

Steve Shaw - 03 Jan 17 - 12:45 PM

Well here's a technically true statement.

"Daily Mail, eh? Well one owner of the Daily Mail was an enthusiastic supporter of the Nazis and Blackshirts!"

Technically true for a limited period (1934) frozen in time for the ignorant. But the man changed his mind didn't he Shaw - from 1938 onwards he tried to warn the country that war was coming and urged the Government of the day to rearm and recognise Germany for the threat that it undoubtedly was.

Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: akenaton
Date: 03 Jan 17 - 04:00 PM

The whole quotation has been presented to Dave many times Teribus, he chooses to ignore it.

Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Jan 17 - 04:07 PM

No, not really, Teribus. OK - I have not given the full quote since I linked it but did one of your friends not once say that once you have given the link to the full quote you do not need to repeat it again? :-) I did supply the link twice and at least I did not rephrase it altogether.

Anyway, you made the point quite nicely. Brendan Cox gave them money. What is another word for giving someone money? Supporting them. So, Farage says that Brendan Cox is supporting an extremist organisation. I think you may be missing the point that I am making yourself. I do not believe it. You do not believe it. Dangerously deranged people like Thomas Mair could well fall for it and cause even more harm.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Jan 17 - 04:13 PM

Incidentally, Teribus, I think you also make the point for Steve. It was true for that period of time so, by Keith's rule, it is not a smear. Yet if someone was to say that Rothermere had links with the Nazis I am sure the man himself would have considered it a slur.

D.

Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Jan 17 - 04:47 PM

A bit of light relief.

Night sky lambasted for looking 'too Islamic'

Someone somewhere will believe it though :-(

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Jan 17 - 05:15 PM

Try not to act thick, Teribus. The precise point is that the comment was technically truthful but was intended as a smear. Why? Because it was lacking the essential context that you so "helpfully" provided! 😂

Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Jan 17 - 05:21 PM

"But the man changed his mind didn't he Shaw - from 1938 "
The "man" wrote long articles praising British Fascism and used his newspaper to publicise and encourage the growth of the Blackshirts
He didn't "chanfe his mind" - he got cold feet when he realised what he had gotten himself into
"A letter from Rothermere in 1939 (six years into Nazi control of Germany, and thousands of political murders later) congratulated Hitler on his success in Prague, and urged him to move on to Romania. Rothermere had befriended and was paying a Nazi spy in Britain – Stephanie von Hohenlohe – to further his contacts in Nazi Germany, and pass correspondence between himself and the regime. The brutality of the regime at this late point was obvious. Rothermere and the Mail turned a blind eye to it."
DAILY MAIL FASCISM
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: bobad
Date: 03 Jan 17 - 05:52 PM

Well, if anybody would be familiar with Nazi fascism...............

Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Jan 17 - 06:23 PM

"
Well, if anybody would be familiar with Nazi fascism.........."
Don't spoil it Bobad
Back under your Bridge
Wasn't it you taking a pop a few postings ago?
MIND YOU, AN ANTI SEMITE ALWAYS RECOGNISES A SOULMATE
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 03 Jan 17 - 06:46 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRJvLkxH4yYv

Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Jan 17 - 08:27 PM

Video not available, Al.

Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Teribus
Date: 04 Jan 17 - 03:13 AM

"I have not given the full quote since I linked it but did one of your friends not once say that once you have given the link to the full quote you do not need to repeat it again? - DtG

Keith A may very well have said something to that effect but it didn't wash with the person that statement was aimed at - Steve Shaw - 03 Jan 17 - 11:55 AM - the subject being the "Vulgar"/"Fraudulent" reference to the works of two historians in an article written by Wheatcroft. That was about three years ago now and Shaw is still wittering on about it despite Keith A owning up to the error and correcting/clarifying it about six times immediately after it had been pointed out to him.

Now if you go back to the thread "New Political Low Take 2" the question you asked was as follows DtG:

"Do you support him attacking a widower by suggesting he has links to the extremism that killed his wife"

Total misrepresentation that isn't it DtG because in the following Nigel Farage does not make any reference to the murder of Jo Cox does he?

"Well, he would know more about extremists than me, wouldn't he. He backs organisations like Hope Not Hate, who masquerade as being lovely and peaceful, but actually pursue violent and very undemocratic means."

But if we take what you stated at face value. Have you any evidence at all implicating "Hope not Hate" in the death of Jo Cox - you did say "links to the extremism that killed his wife" didn't you?

Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Jan 17 - 04:02 AM

"Total misrepresentation that isn't it DtG because in the following Nigel Farage does not make any reference to the murder of Jo Cox does he?"
False - he actually said it was "unfortunate" what happened to her family - a wonderful hypocritical understatement from a political thug.
"He also, by implication, blames her and her husband for such murders First, he is talking about a widower whose wife was murdered by an extremist six months ago. Second, he smeared an organisation that exists to drive back racism – at a time when hate crimes have surged after a referendum campaign made inflammatory by politicians including Nigel Farage."
ENOUGH
His collegue, James Delingpole, expanded:
"Then came Farage's sidekicks. "When are we allowed to say that Brendan Cox is a total arse?" tweeted the Breitbart columnist James Delingpole. "I'm sorry about his wife but he chose to massively politicise it. Who does that?" asked Ukip bankroller Arron Banks, accusing Jo's widower – rather than the far-right terrorist who killed her – of politicising her death."
He went from depth to depth by blaming ANGELA MERKEL for the Berlin attack, attempting to make political capital out of that massacre.
These people are fascist scum and it is little wonder that they have the full support of the piece of fascist scum that will take control of the White House shortly
Truely evil days ahead.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Jan 17 - 04:11 AM

you did say "links to the extremism that killed his wife" didn't you?

Yes, I did say that. On a thread that was closed once again because of being derailed. Looks like you are trying to derail this thread as well but seeing as you mention it. It was extremism that killed Jo Cox was it not? Because it was a different extremist that killed her does not make linking the grieving family to any extremism any better does it.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Jan 17 - 04:41 AM

Dave,
if I were to say "I believe that Nigel Farage is a loathsome character" then it cannot possibly be a smear. Because it is the truth. That is what I believe

You have been unable to justify your belief with anything Farage has actually said or done.
You even misrepresent what he has said, and claim he meant something else!
That makes it just prejudice.
I agree it is not a smear though.

When campaigning against each other, all politicians make the most of their opponents previous mistakes.
Clinton's mistake had been to break the legal rules on secure communication, for which she could have been prosecuted but was not.
She called her opponent names too based on his previous mistakes.

Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Jan 17 - 04:55 AM

Jim,
Second, he smeared an organisation that exists to drive back racism –

He claims that it used violence to disrupt UKIP events.
He is not known for making false claims, and I am not aware of him even being challenged over that one.
If true it is not a smear.

Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Jan 17 - 05:08 AM

"He is not known for making false claims,"
What!!!!!!!
You follow your star Keith, I'll follow mine
I suppose you don't support Ukip in the same way you don't support Farage??
Personally, I'm proud my Family used violence to disrupt Blackshirt meetings - long may there be people in this world prepared to do so to stop fascism.
The ballot box isn't making much of a fist of it.
Care to comment on the rise of racial violence following Ukip's successful efforts on Brexit?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Therasa May's new year message
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Jan 17 - 05:20 AM

"He is not known for making false claims,"
What!!!!!!!

Produce one Jim.

I suppose you don't support Ukip in the same way you don't support Farage??

I am not a supporter of either, but I have been anti-EU for many years.

Care to comment on the rise of racial violence following Ukip's successful efforts on Brexit?

I am appalled by it. So is Farage and UKIP.