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Pantomime

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Senoufou 07 Jan 17 - 02:55 PM
DMcG 07 Jan 17 - 02:59 PM
Big Al Whittle 07 Jan 17 - 04:06 PM
keberoxu 07 Jan 17 - 04:07 PM
Senoufou 07 Jan 17 - 04:48 PM
keberoxu 07 Jan 17 - 05:25 PM
Mr Red 08 Jan 17 - 06:03 AM
Senoufou 08 Jan 17 - 08:06 AM
DMcG 08 Jan 17 - 08:15 AM
Senoufou 08 Jan 17 - 08:28 AM
DMcG 08 Jan 17 - 08:34 AM
leeneia 08 Jan 17 - 10:46 AM
Big Al Whittle 08 Jan 17 - 12:37 PM
Jim Carroll 08 Jan 17 - 01:00 PM
DMcG 08 Jan 17 - 01:22 PM
Dave the Gnome 08 Jan 17 - 01:33 PM
Jim Carroll 08 Jan 17 - 01:37 PM
fat B****rd 08 Jan 17 - 01:38 PM
Jim Carroll 08 Jan 17 - 01:45 PM
Big Al Whittle 08 Jan 17 - 01:55 PM
keberoxu 08 Jan 17 - 02:21 PM
Senoufou 08 Jan 17 - 02:28 PM
ChanteyLass 08 Jan 17 - 08:48 PM
Senoufou 09 Jan 17 - 04:07 AM
Stu 09 Jan 17 - 05:17 AM
Senoufou 09 Jan 17 - 06:22 AM
Will Fly 09 Jan 17 - 08:40 AM
Senoufou 09 Jan 17 - 09:01 AM
Will Fly 09 Jan 17 - 10:17 AM
DMcG 09 Jan 17 - 05:02 PM
Will Fly 10 Jan 17 - 04:00 AM
keberoxu 10 Jan 17 - 12:54 PM
keberoxu 10 Jan 17 - 05:08 PM
Murpholly 11 Jan 17 - 04:13 AM
Senoufou 11 Jan 17 - 07:10 AM
Jim Carroll 11 Jan 17 - 07:45 AM
keberoxu 12 Jan 17 - 07:18 PM
keberoxu 12 Jan 17 - 07:33 PM
Tattie Bogle 12 Jan 17 - 09:20 PM
Rumncoke 13 Jan 17 - 11:55 AM
Senoufou 13 Jan 17 - 12:35 PM
keberoxu 14 Jan 17 - 01:38 PM
Tattie Bogle 17 Jan 17 - 07:04 AM
Senoufou 17 Jan 17 - 07:48 AM
keberoxu 17 Jan 17 - 07:21 PM
ChanteyLass 17 Jan 17 - 07:56 PM
EBarnacle 17 Jan 17 - 11:22 PM
keberoxu 18 Jan 17 - 07:30 PM
leeneia 18 Jan 17 - 10:19 PM
keberoxu 19 Jan 17 - 03:01 PM
keberoxu 20 Jan 17 - 12:20 PM
keberoxu 20 Jan 17 - 03:10 PM
keberoxu 21 Jan 17 - 03:02 PM
keberoxu 22 Jan 17 - 03:26 PM
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Subject: BS: Pantomime
From: Senoufou
Date: 07 Jan 17 - 02:55 PM

We've just got home from the Theatre Royal in Norwich having been to the Pantomime 'Jack and The Beanstalk'. It was marvellous, with all the traditional elements of a Dame, villain (Wayne Sleep!) and dancers including tiny children who performed beautifully, plus lots of messy slapstick and political asides about the Referendum and President Trump. We shouted, "Oh no it isn't!" and, "It's behind you!" as is expected of the audience.
I'm wondering if other countries such as USA and Australia etc have pantomimes, or is it exclusive to UK?
And have any Brits on here been to the Panto in their town?


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Subject: RE: BS: Pantomime
From: DMcG
Date: 07 Jan 17 - 02:59 PM

I have a friend in the UK broight up in Virginia, east coast US. He finds the whole thing completely baffling.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pantomime
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 07 Jan 17 - 04:06 PM

i did the music for our local drama group's panto.

i'd recommend it. terrific fun.
a chance to use all those weird sounds on a synth when the wicked witch comes onstage.
accompanying all those songs - particularly the silly ones - and the love songs and the singalongs.
have no doubts - it may not be folk music - but you'll never get a more 'up' audience!


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Subject: RE: BS: Pantomime
From: keberoxu
Date: 07 Jan 17 - 04:07 PM

Was it Pantomime that the Beatles were copying on their fan-club Christmas record,
released 1966, with a tune that went something like

Everywhere it's Christmas, everywhere it's strong
London Paris Rome New York Tokyo Hong Kong
Everywhere it's Christmas,
I'm off to join the cheer
Everywhere it's Christmas,
At the end of every year! O!
Everywhere it's Christmas, at the end of every yaaaaah! All together now!


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Subject: RE: BS: Pantomime
From: Senoufou
Date: 07 Jan 17 - 04:48 PM

It could have been keberoxu. The Pantomime usually runs from Christmas well into New Year. We find it just lifts us up when Christmas is over and the winter is getting a bit miserable.
I think a Panto rests on the personality of the man who plays the Dame. He has to be a real trouper with a skill for ad libs and camping it up. The costumes too play a huge part, being very brightly-coloured and, for the Dame, with several changes (usually very ornate and bizarre 'frocks' with fruit bowls or huge vegetables on his hat)
My husband is used to it now, but was very puzzled the first time. After about thirty minutes, he leaned across to me and whispered, " I think that strange lady is a MAN!" When I explained that it was, he was astonished. He was also fascinated by the actors whizzing about in the air on flying cables. And when the villain (a witch, in Snow White) rose up out of the ground amid clouds of yellow 'smoke' he nearly jumped out of his skin. That was many years ago of course.
This year there was a pantomime cow (two men, back and front) and several lovely dancers, not to mention special strobe lighting and laser stuff. A huge inflated foot came down from the 'sky' which was the giant.
I love all these traditional things, such as Punch and Judy and Morris dancing. I even remember pierrots on the beach at Westgate-on-sea in the early fifties.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pantomime
From: keberoxu
Date: 07 Jan 17 - 05:25 PM

Pantomime is something I have read about, have not made its acquaintance really.

I am a fan of Sir Ian McKellen though, and he has included pantomime in his very diverse resume (when is he going to win an Oscar anyway?!).

It seems he played the Widow Twankey in "Aladdin." I don't know the director's name, but this was a high-profile production and the director was somebody who had McKellen's respect. The director has since passed away, and somehow I stumbled across the modest online tribute that McKellen posted to said director.
He recalled the initial notes the director gave him for "Aladdin." Went something like:
Ian, everybody loves the Widow Twankey because she loves her son. Therefore, you will have to find the loving mother in yourself.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pantomime
From: Mr Red
Date: 08 Jan 17 - 06:03 AM

Pantomime for the Americans - imagine you are watching Trump spouting on telly. And you are shouting "Oh no it isn't" at the goggle box.

Now translate that to a live audience of disbelievers. Now imagine it is done purely for laughs (hard I know).

Well you would be getting close.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pantomime
From: Senoufou
Date: 08 Jan 17 - 08:06 AM

'Aladdin' is my favourite pantomime of them all. In Norwich, Richard Gauntlett wrote, directed and acted in it a few years ago. He's always the Dame, so he played Widow Twanky. It's meant to be set in Peking (Chinese laundry, you see) but the characters all have Arabic or Muslim names. (wicked Uncle Abadnazar etc) so the geography is a bit suspect to say the least. The Norwich production had a glorious slapstick scene in the Laundry with water and suds flying everywhere, and Widow Twanky and Wishy-Washy soaked to the skin.
There were lots of jokes yesterday about Trump. The villain (Stinky Pete) threatened to run for President, and Nigella Trottalot said, "Well, we could always have a Referendum!" whenever things weren't going well.
I could happily watch the whole thing again, but all the tickets are sold out very quickly.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pantomime
From: DMcG
Date: 08 Jan 17 - 08:15 AM

Aladdin is one of the tales from the 1001 Arabian Nights, so I have wondered on occasion where the Chinese Laundry came into it. But that's panto: don't expect it to make a lot of sense.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pantomime
From: Senoufou
Date: 08 Jan 17 - 08:28 AM

There have been complaints from the Politically Correct Brigade that Chinese laundries in songs and plays are stereotyping, racism etc. George Formby sang about Mr Woo and his Chinese laundry blues, and nowadays people are horribly shocked. I'm not however, and I'd bet most Chinese people aren't either.

David Gant played the Sheriff Phil Hiccup (Bill Hickok you see, it was set in the Wild West of all places) He's a well-known Scottish serious actor, and one of his asides made me smile. He said, "To think I abandoned classical Shakespeare for this rubbish!"


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Subject: RE: BS: Pantomime
From: DMcG
Date: 08 Jan 17 - 08:34 AM

It was a joke that ran for years in the Morcombe and Wise Christmas shows. A well known actor would say "I appeared in one of Ernie Wise's plays and look at what happened", whereupon the camera would pull back and reveal them to working in a refuse centre or similar. No doubt M&W were well versed in the panto traditions.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pantomime
From: leeneia
Date: 08 Jan 17 - 10:46 AM

In answer to your question, Senoufou, we don't have pantomime in the United States. I wish we did.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pantomime
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 08 Jan 17 - 12:37 PM

what about cheese in America. i was wandering about the supermarket and it occurred to me we called cheese after bits of England.

do you have the same cheese and call them places out of America.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pantomime
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Jan 17 - 01:00 PM

Anybody interested in the history of Pantomime should look up The Commedia Dell'arte, a street theater dating to the 196th century.
They could do worse that get hold of Pierre Louis Duchartre's wonderful, highy readable and lavishly illustrated 'The Italian Comedy', once available as a Dover Book and still available at a reasonable price on the Abe site.
Art history at its very best
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Pantomime
From: DMcG
Date: 08 Jan 17 - 01:22 PM

A few years ago, Because of Delle'arte, I asked my Italian daughter in law about her experience of pantomime, as she was born and brought up in Milan until she was about 17. There appears to be no trace in modern Milan if she is anything to go by.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pantomime
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Jan 17 - 01:33 PM

And have any Brits on here been to the Panto in their town?

Oh yes we have.

Oh no you haven't.

He's behind you...

:D tG


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Subject: RE: BS: Pantomime
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Jan 17 - 01:37 PM

Interesting how some of the original characters survive in memory - Harlequin, Columbine and Panteloon (Pulcinella).
The Mummers Plays featured The Captain and the Doctor, and many of the motifs of the early plays were recorded from Mummers.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Pantomime
From: fat B****rd
Date: 08 Jan 17 - 01:38 PM

The one thing better than watching a pantomime is being IN a pantomime. In a local (Newton Aycliffe, Co. Durham) theatre group I played: The Giant, The Sheriff of Nottingham and The Genie. I got to sing corny songs, dance like an idiot and.......hear the marvelous sound of applause.
Oh Yes I DID!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Pantomime
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Jan 17 - 01:45 PM

Pulcinella gave rise to 'Mr Punch of Punch and Judy fame' of course and the costumes survived in those puppet shows.
I just looked it up[ and it seems the last recoded stage show of "Commedia" appears to have been staged in Germany in 1954
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Pantomime
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 08 Jan 17 - 01:55 PM

no one loves a fairy when she's forty...
why does a brown cow give white milk, when it only eats green grass?


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Subject: RE: BS: Pantomime
From: keberoxu
Date: 08 Jan 17 - 02:21 PM

"196th century...."

Commedia dell'Arte: Robert Carlyle was approached by the showrunners for "Once Upon A Time" (ABC Network) for the part of Rumplestiltskin, with a big scene in the pilot episode. He gave earnest consideration to what it would take to put such an unreal character across. That was about five years ago, and in interviews since then, he has consistently credited two things he used deliberately in order to create Rumplestiltskin:
Commedia dell'Arte, and drama wearing a mask ("it takes you somewhere else").


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Subject: RE: BS: Pantomime
From: Senoufou
Date: 08 Jan 17 - 02:28 PM

I believe the earliest pantomime in Norwich was in 1774.

The pantomime cow 'Daisy' was really funny. When Jack milked it, each udder played a note,(cue various popular tunes) and eventually a plastic carton of milk arrived from underneath its body. Followed by a large cow pat from its rear end. Jack stuck his finger in the brown blob, tasted it and declared it 'rather nice' then threw it into the audience. (Screams from the children it landed on!)

The Dame did a striptease, and pulled off about ten different negligees to the tune 'The Stripper'. I don't know how he'd managed to wear them all at once. The final item of clothing he was left wearing was a Norwich City football shirt.
It's all such fun and very uplifting in the middle of winter.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pantomime
From: ChanteyLass
Date: 08 Jan 17 - 08:48 PM

I am not aware of any groups in the US that perform pantomime. However, many years ago an English group performed in RI, and I jumped at the chance to see them. I think this may have been a cultural exchange between Coventry in the UK and the city of the same name in Connecticut, and because Coventry, Rhode Island, where I lived at the time was not far away, they performed Cinderella there, too. One of the actors explained the conventions before the play started so we knew what to do, but I suppose our responses were rather tepid compared to those of a UK audience.
There is a Commedia group in the part of Massachusetts where my son lives, and one of its members lives in the cohousing where my son's family lives. Every year he gets the children in the cohousing to perform a Commedia play.
At the boy scout camp my son went to, every year the staff did an original play with some elements of both art forms. There were bits that were repeated every year and stock responses from the audience. One year my son got to play a young woman--not a Dame role. I asked how he got chosen for the part. He said his feet were the only ones that fit into the high-heeled shoes!


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Subject: RE: BS: Pantomime
From: Senoufou
Date: 09 Jan 17 - 04:07 AM

I had to explain to my husband that playing the role of the Dame is nothing to do with being gay/transvestite, although many gay performers have played the Dame in the past. Julian Clary and Larry Grayson, for example, have been excellent.
The Norwich 'Jack and The Beanstalk' was set in 'Nodge City' in the Wild West. All the actors had cowboy/cowgirl costumes, and the dances were all hoe-down type stuff. (Reminded me of my American line-dancing days) There was a Sheriff and a saloon with bar girls, and some rather strange pseudo-American/Norfolk accents.
The whole thing rather depends on audience participation ChanteyLass, as we're all expected to roar out the usual things, and everyone knows what's expected. The children absolutely love it.
There was a party of deaf children from a special school for the deaf in the audience, and a chap stood at the side of the stage signing for them. Two were invited up with a mic to do the animal sounds for Old MacDonald's Farm. Brilliant!


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Subject: RE: BS: Pantomime
From: Stu
Date: 09 Jan 17 - 05:17 AM

I went to see my nephew and niece in the local youth club panto last week and loved it; i laughed all the way through (the jokes were terrible of course!). The panto has been going for decades and I was in a panto from the same youth club over thirty years before so it's the nearest thing we have to a family tradition.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pantomime
From: Senoufou
Date: 09 Jan 17 - 06:22 AM

How lovely Stu! I've scripted and directed many a panto for my pupils over the years, but never acted in one myself. I rather fancy the role of a Fairy. (I'd probably be better doing the back half of the cow though!)


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Subject: RE: BS: Pantomime
From: Will Fly
Date: 09 Jan 17 - 08:40 AM

I was asked to be the MD (Musical Director) for our local theatre group's performance of the "Pompeii Panto" a few years ago - which meant choosing the songs, sorting out the musicians, arranging the music for the musicians, coaching the cast in singing the songs, and directing the music at each performance. Luckily, I'd retired from the day job because it was a huge amount of work. It started in late August with auditions and continued right up until performance time in early January, with rehearsals twice a week. Great fun. I'd been involved in playing for various musicals before but never done MD work until then.

I was given the freedom to choose the music, so went for the 1950s, a genre I knew very well. Getting a mixed cast - some of whom were great singers and some of whom could hardly hold a tune in a bucket - to get the songs right was a real challenge. However, as they say, it went all right on the night(s), and I received the fat fee of a bottle of Scotch for my trouble. I chose musicians who were friends of mine, whom I could trust musically because, as usual, the band get just two bites of doing the music completely before the performance: once at the technical rehearsal and again at the dress rehearsal.

I was lucky enough to catch Ian McKellen (name drop: we went to the same school) as Window Twankey in "Aladdin" - his first venture as Dame. He was good but, I have to say, not as good as some of the old-timers who'd been used to a career in Variety or Music-Hall. They have a spontaneity and a capacity for ad-libbing which straight actors don't usually have - I'm thinking of people like Roy Hudd, John Inman and Les Dawson, for example. One of the greatest Dames was the music-hall and cabaret star from the '30s and '40s, Douglas Byng, who lived in retirement in Brighton, and one of the best ones whom I saw in the 1950s was a northern comedian called Albert Modley, who lived near us in Bolton.

One thing I will say: Panto is an art, and not an easy one!


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Subject: RE: BS: Pantomime
From: Senoufou
Date: 09 Jan 17 - 09:01 AM

There are so many aspects of pantomime to cover aren't there? The music, slapstick scenes, costumes and sets, dances,special effects such as smoke, lighting, trap doors, sound effects and so on. Not to mention the script, which used to be all in rhyming couplets, though not so much nowadays.
It's far more complicated than straight theatre.
The two 'love interest' characters in Jack and The Beanstalk were very good singers,and performed two very nice duets. (I think they were people off the TV, but as I don't watch soaps and so on, I wouldn't have known them from Adam!)
There's a tradition that they always get four children up on stage to talk about their favourite Christmas present. One is usually very chatty and not a bit shy, and the Dame was very skilled at getting a laugh (without upsetting the child)
My favourite line was when one of the characters, describing the neighbouring town to Nodge City, said, "It's terrible, there's nothing to do there and the people are all scruffy and rude." The Dame replied, "Sounds a bit like Great Yarmouth!" hee hee!


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Subject: RE: BS: Pantomime
From: Will Fly
Date: 09 Jan 17 - 10:17 AM

It's always important to get the local topical references in, if you can!

I remember seeing Albert Modley in "Mother Goose" when I was about 10. The theatre suddenly had a power cut - complete blackness. Before the audience could panic or become scared, a stage hand came on with a torch which he put in front of his face, saying "Anyone got a shilling for the meter?" Brought the house down and saved the day with a joke or two until the fuse box was sorted out.

By gum, them were't days...


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Subject: RE: BS: Pantomime
From: DMcG
Date: 09 Jan 17 - 05:02 PM

One exceptionally enjoyable play I went to see was supposed to be a moderately serious two-hander play, but at one point an actor said something like "the phone's ringing", walked to answer it, and thereupon it started to ring. He ad libbed something like "it's best to wait until it rings before doing that", found the audience enjoyed it, then the rest of the play turned into a bravura ad libbed performance vaguely related to the script. Great fun, but a little tough of the guy working the sound and lighting systems.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pantomime
From: Will Fly
Date: 10 Jan 17 - 04:00 AM

There was a mock panto on TV at Christmas - a sort of "Acorn Antiques" version of "Peter Pan" - very funny, with everything going wrong that could.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pantomime
From: keberoxu
Date: 10 Jan 17 - 12:54 PM

Neat how this thread is broadening its scope. Of course one could have a separate thread about Commedia dell'Arte, since in the present day these are not identical things; but this way of broadening the subject is more inclusive, and constructively done.

Here is a report about a North American commedia dell'arte company.

Commedia Kansas City


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Subject: RE: BS: Pantomime
From: keberoxu
Date: 10 Jan 17 - 05:08 PM

Robert Carlyle mentions commedia dell'arte


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Subject: RE: BS: Pantomime
From: Murpholly
Date: 11 Jan 17 - 04:13 AM

About fourteen of us used to go to the local Panto and we always took the front row. One year we started our usual shouting "oh no it isn't" etc. and were told by Bill Maynard of Selwyn Frogget fame they hadn't started that bit yet. The reply from us was obvious. By the interval he asked us to spread round the audience and get the rest of them involved please as some of them were obviously suffering from a surfeit of Chrismas and had fallen asleep. Oh exciting participative days.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pantomime
From: Senoufou
Date: 11 Jan 17 - 07:10 AM

Everyone here knows all the traditional responses. Our funny postman asked us if we'd had a good Christmas. We said we went to the pantomime. He replied, "Oh no you didn't!" so of course we had to come back with, "Oh yes we did!" Same at the village garage (anti-freeze top-up) "Where's your husband?" "He's waiting outside!" "Oh no he isn't...."
This has happened loads of times. It does get a bit wearisome. I've stopped mentioning the blooming panto now!


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Subject: RE: BS: Pantomime
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Jan 17 - 07:45 AM

Broadening it even further, we had a friend in London, John Wright, who helped establish a mime Theatre Group, Trestle Theatre, using many of the techniques of Commedia, particularly the traditional masks (K's ling to the American company just reminded me)
John was also interested in folk song, and was no mean singer himself
He wished to use traditional tales for some of their productions, and Pat and I were invited along with some of our recordings of storytellers.
As a reward, John gave us choice of one of the beautiful leather masks he made
We lost touch, but I'm still reminded of him every time I look at the wonderful phallic-nosed Pantelon mask hanging on the wall.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Pantomime
From: keberoxu
Date: 12 Jan 17 - 07:18 PM

what Ian McKellen actually said


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Subject: RE: BS: Pantomime
From: keberoxu
Date: 12 Jan 17 - 07:33 PM

Dear Moderators:

there exist several pantomime threads at Mudcat, this being the most recent. For example, with a Mudcat search, I turned up a decent thread from 2007 about pantomime, and a 2001 thread on pantomime subtitled "lowbrow theatricals'.
What do you call it when you have a little list, at the top of a thread, of links to threads on a related topic? That's what I am thinking of here. Each of these three threads had input from different periods and different members, many of them UK. Lots of interesting info. Thanks!


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Subject: RE: BS: Pantomime
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 12 Jan 17 - 09:20 PM

When I was a wee thing,it was a family tradition to go to the Ipswich Rep Theatre for whatever panto was on, usually 3 familes of us together, and always the Boxing Day matinee, then back to each others' houses for a big tea.
Then when I went to medical school, we always did a Christmas Show, which was very much like pantomime and involved caricaturing all the hospital consultants. The show names were often puns on real pantomime names, e.g. "Salmonella" instead of "Cinderella", and "A Lad In Whitechapel" (work it out!) and of course we had a big muscular male Dame! Our producer had a penchant for Gilbert and Sullivan, so many of the songs used Sullivan's bouncy tunes.
Similar shows during my house jobs down in Devon, where the 2 male, bearded "Fairies" were Fairy Liquid and Fairy Nuff. And the sleeping princess was awoken by everyone shouting "Boo!" as loudly as they could! The consultants and their spouses got front row seats, but then regretted it when the 50 ml syringes were used to spray the audience! I was more involved with playing piano for these shows.
Oh those were the days!
Nowadays we're more likely to go to a ballet at Christmas, but these are often versions of well-known tales, such as "The Snowman" or "Hansel and Gretel".


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Subject: RE: BS: Pantomime
From: Rumncoke
Date: 13 Jan 17 - 11:55 AM

I have probably mentioned it before, but when there was a performance of Romeo and Juliet at the theatre in Sheffield our deputy headmistress took along a party from school and was scandalised when we treated it as pantomime. It was the play set for O level that year.

Rather than sitting in respectful silence before the very bare stage - it was between 'proper' performances of other plays so there were two benches and a rudimentary archway between - we oohed and aahed, we clapped and cheered, reacted to the fights and deaths, but there was dead silence when the actors spoke.

The actors were obviously expecting the normal lack of interaction, and for the first few minutes were just going through the motions - and then something magical happened...

Poor Miss White. She sat with her face in her hands and missed all the encouragement we got, all the cheeky gestures and the young men strutting their stuff like the Jets and the Sharks, all the older generation cutting eachother dead. It never happens in any filmed production I have seen, so I keep the memory of that occasion most fondly, as something closer to the original version than anything Miss White would have approved of.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pantomime
From: Senoufou
Date: 13 Jan 17 - 12:35 PM

Miss White should have realised that when they were first produced, in the Globe Theatre and others, Shakespeare's plays were received in just such a way. Catcalls, jeers, booing and cheering were very much expected. As you say, closer to the original version!


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Subject: RE: BS: Pantomime
From: keberoxu
Date: 14 Jan 17 - 01:38 PM

Big Al Whittle asks after North American cheese. At least I think he means North American. South of the border I have no idea what the cheeses get up to.

But the first thing that comes to mind is Monterey Jack Cheese, which notwithstanding the Mexican/Spanish name is north of the border.

And then Wisconsin and Vermont are renowned for cheddar.

Erm. That's all I know about it. Do we need a BS Cheese Thread?


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Subject: RE: BS: Pantomime
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 17 Jan 17 - 07:04 AM

There was quite a long one only a few weeks ago! Just put Cheese in the Search box!


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Subject: RE: BS: Pantomime
From: Senoufou
Date: 17 Jan 17 - 07:48 AM

Stop this immediately! I've put on quite a bit of weight over Crimbo, and I absolutely adore cheese. I'm trying not to eat it, and now this...! I'm looking forlornly at a blasted lettuce leaf and half a tomato. Ah....Cheese... (drools)


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Subject: RE: BS: Pantomime
From: keberoxu
Date: 17 Jan 17 - 07:21 PM

Don't forget The Taming of the Shrew!

Not all Shakespeare parallels equally well to commedia dell'arte. But of course, The Taming of the Shrew is thoroughly Italian --remember, I've come to wive it wealthily in Padua -- and if I recall my reading, there are theories that Shrew has more than one author or editor: that Shakespeare wrote the noblest parts, such as "I am ashamed that women are so simple," while the more conventional carryings-on in the play might be someone else's work.

I have never seen a commedia dell'arte adaptation of The Taming of the Shrew. I understand, however, that some of these have not only been staged, but have been recorded for posterity, and make wonderful videos. Anybody actually seen this?


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Subject: RE: BS: Pantomime
From: ChanteyLass
Date: 17 Jan 17 - 07:56 PM

I think I vaguely remember a few commedia bits in the Shakespeare in the Park production of The Taming of the Shrew starring Meryl Streep and Raul Julia if I'm not confusing it with a more recent production.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pantomime
From: EBarnacle
Date: 17 Jan 17 - 11:22 PM

The same last year with an all female cast.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pantomime
From: keberoxu
Date: 18 Jan 17 - 07:30 PM

Once there was a "Mudcat Panto" thread, but it got itself closed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pantomime
From: leeneia
Date: 18 Jan 17 - 10:19 PM

Thanks to this thread, the DH and I have watched two full-length pantos on YouTube: Cinderella and Jack and the Beanstalk. We enjoyed them both.

Such a nice break from politics and crime.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pantomime
From: keberoxu
Date: 19 Jan 17 - 03:01 PM

I wonder if the actor Max Adrian ever did panto? He seems to have done everything else under the sun.
He was in Flanders and Swann revues, as well as the revues of others, in the 1950's.
He performed in Shakespeare, playing both Polonius and Osric in Hamlet.
Ken Russell cast him in several projects, both on television and in cinema.
He ventured into horror movies, playing a vampire who turns into a bat.
Christmas Pantomimes would seem a perfect fit for him. Anybody know?


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Subject: RE: BS: Pantomime
From: keberoxu
Date: 20 Jan 17 - 12:20 PM

There's a website celebrating panto:

It's Behind You!


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Subject: RE: BS: Pantomime
From: keberoxu
Date: 20 Jan 17 - 03:10 PM

Did any Mudcatter ever see Stanley Baxter in a pantomime?
To think that he is still alive.


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Subject: RE: BS: Pantomime
From: keberoxu
Date: 21 Jan 17 - 03:02 PM

What about Barbara Windsor then? (title role in "Aladdin")


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Subject: RE: Pantomime
From: keberoxu
Date: 22 Jan 17 - 03:26 PM

Thanks to Eliza, Mudcat has this fresh pantomime thread.
And thanks to Joe Offer:
we have crosslinks for related pantomime threads (some of them most informative)
and we're above the BS line now, because Joe Offer says that British Christmas Pantomime is cultural, and cultural gets to go upstairs. Neat.
    "cultural gets to go upstairs" - within limits. Don't expect to see movies and TV and celebrity obits upstairs. -Joe Offer-


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