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BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II

Keith A of Hertford 02 Apr 17 - 12:07 PM
bobad 02 Apr 17 - 11:58 AM
Jim Carroll 02 Apr 17 - 11:53 AM
Steve Shaw 02 Apr 17 - 11:52 AM
Donuel 02 Apr 17 - 11:51 AM
Keith A of Hertford 02 Apr 17 - 11:38 AM
Jim Carroll 02 Apr 17 - 11:18 AM
Jeri 02 Apr 17 - 10:39 AM
Raggytash 02 Apr 17 - 10:34 AM
Teribus 02 Apr 17 - 10:23 AM
Jim Carroll 02 Apr 17 - 09:46 AM
Steve Shaw 02 Apr 17 - 08:59 AM
Jim Carroll 02 Apr 17 - 08:22 AM
Keith A of Hertford 02 Apr 17 - 07:54 AM
Keith A of Hertford 02 Apr 17 - 07:36 AM
Jim Carroll 02 Apr 17 - 06:55 AM
Steve Shaw 02 Apr 17 - 06:03 AM
Jim Carroll 02 Apr 17 - 05:59 AM
Jim Carroll 02 Apr 17 - 05:50 AM
Teribus 02 Apr 17 - 05:36 AM
Jim Carroll 02 Apr 17 - 05:25 AM
Jim Carroll 02 Apr 17 - 05:11 AM
Keith A of Hertford 02 Apr 17 - 04:48 AM
Steve Shaw 01 Apr 17 - 07:16 PM
Steve Shaw 01 Apr 17 - 06:43 PM
Raggytash 01 Apr 17 - 03:51 PM
Jim Carroll 01 Apr 17 - 02:07 PM
Dave the Gnome 01 Apr 17 - 01:27 PM
Keith A of Hertford 01 Apr 17 - 12:48 PM
Keith A of Hertford 01 Apr 17 - 12:36 PM
Keith A of Hertford 01 Apr 17 - 12:31 PM
Jim Carroll 01 Apr 17 - 12:09 PM
Dave the Gnome 01 Apr 17 - 11:53 AM
Teribus 01 Apr 17 - 11:30 AM
Jim Carroll 01 Apr 17 - 10:54 AM
Jim Carroll 01 Apr 17 - 10:31 AM
Teribus 01 Apr 17 - 10:24 AM
Jim Carroll 01 Apr 17 - 10:10 AM
Jim Carroll 01 Apr 17 - 10:05 AM
Raggytash 01 Apr 17 - 08:56 AM
Teribus 01 Apr 17 - 08:48 AM
Jim Carroll 01 Apr 17 - 07:54 AM
Teribus 01 Apr 17 - 07:20 AM
Jim Carroll 01 Apr 17 - 06:03 AM
bobad 01 Apr 17 - 06:02 AM
Jim Carroll 01 Apr 17 - 05:41 AM
Steve Shaw 01 Apr 17 - 05:31 AM
Steve Shaw 01 Apr 17 - 05:12 AM
Keith A of Hertford 01 Apr 17 - 04:51 AM
Jim Carroll 01 Apr 17 - 04:40 AM
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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Apr 17 - 12:07 PM

Jim, your final quoted section seems to come from Facebook.
Any idea who wrote it?

The main section comes from an Indy article by Fisk.
It concerned testimony given to a Belgian Court considering whether there was evidence to indict Sharon.
The Court decided there was not.

In all your huge post there is just one person who claims to have seen bodies being buried. Why should we believe her?
If her story was true there would have been some credible witnesses.

Remember that these people lie against Israel all the time.
Remember those nurses on the Marmara who were eye witnesses to Israelis dumping bodies overboard.
They lied. Everyone was accounted for.

Remember the eye witness at Jenin who saw massacre victim's bodies loaded onto a truck and driven off.
He lied.
Again everyone was accounted for.

Try to be less gullible Jim.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: bobad
Date: 02 Apr 17 - 11:58 AM

If you stop feeding the trolls your friends are going to be mighty hungry 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Apr 17 - 11:53 AM

I think it's time we listened to what the lady said Steve
"Stop feeding the trolls"
Makes sense to me

Direct Israeli complicity
"08:00am - General Amos Yaron observes the remnants of the crowd of most elderly people, women and children, who were gathered at the camp entrance at 06:00am. He announces that the women and children may leave. The men are taken to the nearby Camille Chamoun Sports Stadium for interrogation by the Israelis, who warn them that they must "reveal terrorist hideouts" because, "If you do not tell us the truth, you know that the Phalangists and Sa'ad Haddad's men are here!". Twenty-eight dead prisoners are subsequently found in the sports stadium, their hands tied behind their backs."
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Apr 17 - 11:52 AM

You simply can't argue for any sort of conclusion about anything from such a tiny statistical sample. The only conclusion I can draw is that you have it in for travellers and will clutch at any straw to blacken their reputation. You've done it with the Labour Party and you've done it with the British Pakistani community. Disgraceful behaviour.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Apr 17 - 11:51 AM

In the words of Tom Lecher "everybody hates the Jews"
The question is degree. Yes there are anti Semitic Jews too.

The difference between the anti folk in the UK and the US appears to be profound. That is because the slaughter of millions of Jews happened in your backyard. Americans feel more insulated.

Guilt, reparations, direct or remote involvement, religious teaching are all factors in your seemingly serious UK squabble that looks alive and well.

The US is free of your apparent active hate and over defensive shouting, except for teenagers. In America the new Jew is also kosher and is called a Muslim.

by all means this is sad...but True, with real and fake reasons.

That all of you can not see a way forward and continue to hate each other over the WWII Jewish Question of Hitler, is also sad.

Find something you like about each other or continue as you are, in darkness.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Apr 17 - 11:38 AM

Steve and Jim,
Ten convictions in just three cases going back years.

Going back just to 2010 when the new laws came in.
I have referenced four cases involving Travellers and one that did not.
I have not found any other comparable cases.
Unless you know of dozens more non-Traveller cases, then it is indisputable that they are over-represented, which is my only claim.

I was right, and your abusive attacks on me are without foundation.
Name calling and abuse is what you always do when your case collapses, and it has.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Apr 17 - 11:18 AM

"Stop feeding the trolls!"
Doesn't stop them using this forum for their racist propaganda Jeri - your choice
"I would imagine that very few "travellers" now actually travel and very few of them are "Born on the road""
You imagine wrong
The majority were born on the road, and those that are able choose to Travel - not easy with people like you and Keith around
Those that have settled have been forced 1: The Stadium in 1982 was in ruins"
The Stadium was used as a holding centre for the victims throughout the massacre - every account states that fact
"The smashed Camille Chamoun Sports Stadium was a natural "holding centre" for prisoners. Only two miles from Beirut airport, it had been an ammunition dump for Yasser Arafat's PLO and repeatedly bombed by Israeli jets during the 1982 siege of Beirut so that its giant, smashed exterior looked like a nightmare denture. The Palestinians had earlier mined its cavernous interior, but its vast, underground storage space and athletics changing-rooms remained intact."
"It was a familiar landmark to all of us who lived in Beirut. At mid-morning on 18 September 1982 - around the time Sana Sersawi says she was brought to the stadium - I saw hundreds of Palestinian and Lebanese prisoners, perhaps well over 1,000 in all, sitting in its gloomy, cavernous interior, squatting in the dust, watched over by Israeli soldiers and plainclothes Shin Beth agents and a group of men who I suspected, correctly, were Lebanese collaborators. The men sat in silence, obviously in fear."
Long after the war, the ruins of the Cité Sportive were torn down and a brand new marble stadium was built in its place, partly by the British. Pavarotti has sung there. But the testimony of what may lie beneath its foundations - and its frightful implications - will give Ariel Sharon further reason to fear an indictment.
Robert Fisk

"Even before the slaughter inside the camps had ended, Shahira Abu Rudeina says she was taken to the Cité Sportif where, in one of the underground "holding centres", she saw a retarded man, watched by Israeli soldiers, burying bodies in a pit. Her evidence might be rejected were it not for the fact that she also expressed her gratitude for an Israeli soldier – inside the Chatila camp, against all the evidence given by the Israelis – who prevented the murder of her daughters by the Phalange."
"Long after the war, the ruins of the Cité Sportif were torn down and a brand new marble stadium was built in its place, partly by the British. Pavarotti has sung there. But the testimony of what may lie beneath its foundations – and its frightful implications – might give Ariel Sharon further reason to fear an indictment. "
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/another-war-on-terror-another-proxy-army-another-mysterious-massacre-and-now-after-19-years-perhaps-9255784.html

Other bodies were found on the Airport Road. But the majority were never recovered. American diplomats told the NY Times that they were feared massacred in southern Lebanon. (It is possible that some lie under the new stadium built on the ruins of Camille Chamoun Sports Stadium. And, according to the UK's Independent newspaper, some dozens are also buried near the Lebanese town of Jounieh [5])

At the Sports Centre, I saw the Israeli military, as well as tanks, bulldozers and artillery, all Israeli. We also saw groups of Phalangists with the Israelis. The Sports Centre was packed with women and children. We stayed there until sunset. An Israeli came then and he said, "Everyone go to the Cola region, whoever comes back to the camp will die." We left, as they fired shots in our direction".
http://lawrenceofcyberia.blogs.com/news/2004/09/tainted_by_terr.html
I've given you eye witness accounts - where are yours?
And now for a bit of EVIDENCE TAMPERING
Now - have oyu anything to offer other than denials
No?
THought not
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jeri
Date: 02 Apr 17 - 10:39 AM

Jim,
Mummy and Daddy aren't going to step in and protect you from the bad kids in the neighborhood. Stop feeding the trolls!


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Raggytash
Date: 02 Apr 17 - 10:34 AM

Well we got home at 4AM after a great night which included a Brazilian man wearing a kilt playing the Piano Accordion, you couldn't make it up. He was very good too.

A bit drained today, understandably, so a few pints this afternoon and watch the Arsenal V Man City match, followed by a Rib Eye Steak, french fries, tomato and onion with a few Petit Pois for colour, no doubt washed down with a decent red.

Maybe a bit more music tonight if I can rouse myself to go out.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Teribus
Date: 02 Apr 17 - 10:23 AM

"Swindonians happen to live in Swindon just as Travellers happen to have been born on the road - no more"

Hang on Jim it was YOU who asked a question and raised the fact that you thought that Swindon and Wiltshire had a "culture" - are you saying now that you were talking complete and utter bollocks, to use Steve Shaw's expression? I would imagine that very few "travellers" now actually travel and very few of them are "Born on the road".

Also please listen up and pay attention you Prat it was YOU who claimed that the Israelis buried bodies under the Camille Chamoun Sports Stadium in Beirut in 1982. Only two things wrong with that Jim:

1: The Stadium in 1982 was in ruins
2: After extensive ground works and a total reconstruction carried out by British and Lebanese construction engineers no bodies have been found

So please answer what would appear to most reasonable, intelligent and logical people - " has it been verified that a mass grave was found underneath the Camille Chamoun Stadium in Beirut?

The answer of course is NO IT HAS NOT BEEN VERIFIED - NO HUMAN REMAINS HAVE EVER BEEN FOUND AT THE SITE OF THE CAMILLE CHAMOUN SPORTS STADIUM - kinda pisses all over your parade Jim when you still maintain that it is a fact - but there again you wouldn't recognise a fact if it jumped up and bit you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Apr 17 - 09:46 AM

I really think it's time the moderators decided whether they want this forum used as a racist hate-site
There must coe a point when it becomes obvious that is now openly happening
Enough is enough
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Apr 17 - 08:59 AM

Ten convictions in just three cases going back years. There is absolutely no solid case to be made from those statistics. You are smearing the whole of the traveller community by using tendentious language such as "massive over-representation." That is just sick, sick, sick.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Apr 17 - 08:22 AM

Racist shite Keith
Bring your figures not press reports
Who saiys they are "massively over-represented" apart from you
You now have the figures to compare them with
02 Apr 17 - 05:50 AM
You are a racist madman and you have been since you accused the entire Muslim population of being implanted to rape children
You need to be locked up
You really are finished here - both of you
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Apr 17 - 07:54 AM

Since the new slavery laws of 2010 came in to force, Travellers have been massively over-represented in the convictions.

Indy, "The arrests (Bristol Dec 2013) follow a number of cases involving the forced labour of the vulnerable at traveller camps that have gone to court over the past two years, using new legislation designed to make it easier to prosecute modern-day slave-keepers.
In the first case of its kind, four people were jailed last year after a raid at Bedfordshire site in 2011 revealed the existence of 23 dirty and emaciated men who were forced to work under fear of extreme violence.
A powerful traveller family made money out of the victims who were addicts they picked up from the streets and soup kitchens and forced to work for little money.
In a separate case, five members of an Irish traveller family were found guilty in December last year
of keeping their own private workforce in Gloucestershire, Leicestershire and Nottinghamshire and paying them as little as £5 a day for their work.

Wales Online June 2016, "A (Traveller)family was jailed for total of 27 years after a court heard two men were used like slaves"

I have found only one non-Traveller case, which was of a Maoist cult leader.
Travellers are a tiny proportion of the population, so they are massively over-represented, as I correctly stated.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Apr 17 - 07:36 AM

Jim,
You have had ei=ye witness reports and researched accounts of the massacre and you have not offered one single fact that disproves any of this - this is now written and established history

No such "eye witness" reports emerged until long after the event. Not credible.
"researched accounts of the massacre" There was a massacre, but nothing to suggest Israelis were involved.
"this is now written and established history "
Nonsense. No decent democracy holds Israel responsible.
Only nasty regimes that have real blood on their hands, and people like you.

To suggest that the criminal act of four individual from one family can be

I provided reports of ten convictions.


You've already dipped your toe into antisemitism by suggesting a Jewish Parliamentary plot


You keep repeating that ludicrous lie, but what you can never do is provide a quote of me "suggesting a Jewish Parliamentary plot" because I never have, liar.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Apr 17 - 06:55 AM

And he did the same with several hundred cases of criminality in a population of a million and a half Muslims - which "proved" that the entire population were implanted too rape underage women
He'd have dome well working with the Nazis to prove the Jews were an inferior race
Takes all sorts I suppose
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Apr 17 - 06:03 AM

A sample of ten over several years does not remotely justify the assertion that travellers are over-represented. Statistical nonsense. To make things even worse, your figures relate to just two family cases, not nine separate ones. You are smearing the whole travelling community with your insinuation that there is massive slavery issue among travellers on the basis of two rogue families. You did the same over a handful of ALLEGED antisemitism cases out of 600,000 members of the Labour Party. Don't worry, Keith. We know exactly how you work. Dishonest, disreputable, disgusting.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Apr 17 - 05:59 AM

" I'm all ears. Explain, does Swindon have any particular culture that is unique to the town?"
Doesw Traveller culture have any particulare culture related to slavery]
What a stup=id question
Swindonians happen to live in Swindon just as Travellers happen to have been born on the road - no more
"By the way has it been verified that a mass grave was found underneath the Camille Chamoun Stadium in Beirut? "
Any more information about Falangists coming home for their holidays to do the killing
Pathetic evasion as ever
nobody knows how many are buried there - the Israelis made sure of that
Respond to the real points - your smoke screens don't work
You have never read anything on this massacre - you just invented a scenario that fits your own personal view
Feckin' eejit
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Apr 17 - 05:50 AM

More to ignore
Jim Carroll
10 things you didn't know about slavery in the UK

The UK Government estimates there are up to 13,000 people in slavery in Britain today
Only 1% of enslaved people in the UK have the chance of seeing their exploiter brought to justice
In 2015, over 3,000 people, including nearly 1,000 children, were referred to British authorities as potential victims of slavery
But nearly 40% of them were still awaiting a decision about their victim status at the end of the year
From those who have received a final decision, only less than half were supported as victims
Victims of slavery are four times less likely to be acknowledged as victims if they are non-European
Up to 34% of victims of slavery are estimated to be re-trafficked
Children are often deliberately targeted for their vulnerability
One in four victims of slavery in the UK is a child
2016 saw the first conviction and sentencing of a British businessman for human trafficking


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Teribus
Date: 02 Apr 17 - 05:36 AM

Hmmmmmm - " Swindon or Wiltshire, Culture" - OK Jim, I'm all ears. Explain, does Swindon have any particular culture that is unique to the town? How and when was is this rare and unique culture discovered? Is, if indeed there is such a thing as, Wiltshire culture in what way does it differ from Somerset or Dorset culture (If they exist). Travellers have a unique culture though don't they Jim, and they have their own unique customs and codes of behaviour, one of which would appear to require that they remain silent while their "Traveller" neighbours and relations serially abuse, mercilessly exploit, imprison and enslave 22 vulnerable members of society. Surprised they don't have songs about it Jim, or perhaps a couple of lively jigs to keep their workforce on the hop as the build peoples drives in any weather for absolutely S.F.A. in the way of wages.

By the way has it been verified that a mass grave was found underneath the Camille Chamoun Stadium in Beirut? That is what you seem to be saying. The only problem I have with that is that I have not read any reports of such a mass grave having ever been discovered. Perhaps you could give us a link.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Apr 17 - 05:25 AM

Some more facts for you to ignore - you evil little man
And this doesn't even touch the goods bought onn our high streets manufacturd=ed by genuine slaves - which you have always refused to comment on
Slavery is only an issue with you people when there is a racist angle you can use
Jim Carroll

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-kent-19842821
http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/exploitation-of-migrant-domestic-workers-in-the-uk/
http://www.gla.gov.uk/media/1584/jrf-forced-labour-in-the-uk.pdf
https://www.antislavery.org/slavery-today/slavery-uk/


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Apr 17 - 05:11 AM

"Not one verified, as I correctly stated."
Every single one verified and you know it Keith
Not one verified, as I correctly stated."
Piss off Keith - you know this is not true - your only defence if that Israel said they didn't do it
You have had ei=ye witness reports and researched accounts of the massacre and you have not offered one single fact that disproves any of this - this is now written and established history
I did not give you "me version" - I gave the accepted account account of what happened with masses of back-up information
As you say - you have given Israel's version - and nothing else - not a shred of evidence to back it up.
"Yes. Reports of Traveller related slavery cases. I can only think of one non-Traveller related case."
You have given no example of Travellers keeping slaves - that is racist hype you have been given half a dozen cases of domestic workers kept in similar conditions, of Britain filling shops with goods manufactured in slave-like conditions, - you can multiply this with the conditions many migrant workers, au pairs, workers in the catering trade, unregistered workers - even navvies - undergo in Britain and elsewhere
To suggest that the criminal act of four individual from one family can be
Were Fred and Rose West representative of Swindon or Wiltshire, Culture - how about murderer Nilson - North London culture - in any way linked to the fact they they are Travellers is totally obscene
You and your mate are a pair of rabid racists and your behaviour is polluting this site with your racist filth
Your only function on this forum is as examples of racism and bigotry at its very worst - Travellers, Irish (especially "brainwashed" children) - Muslims - you've had a go at every one of them so far - who next, I wonder
You've already dipped your toe into antisemitism by suggesting a Jewish Parliamentary plot
No wonder Brexit has plunged Britain into the chaos it has with people like you waving the flag
Do not ever suggest that ewe are lying when we accuse you of racism or extremism - that is exactly what you are - the worst of the worst
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Apr 17 - 04:48 AM

Jim,
Every single one verified and you know it Keith

Not one verified, as I correctly stated.

You give us your version


I have given Israel's version.

What is your evidence for this ludicrous charge - four more press reports

Yes. Reports of Traveller related slavery cases. I can only think of one non-Traveller related case. How many can you think of?
Otherwise it is a massive over-representation.

Steve,
So, Keith, you've come up with ten convictions over a protracted period and are basing a conclusion about the evils of travellers on just that.

I have reached no such "conclusion about the evils of travellers."
Only a microscopic minority have been involved, but those ten convictions since the laws were introduced in 2010 represent a massive over-representation. Stating such facts does not justify your lying rant against me, "That makes you a bigot. You have utterly failed to answer the questions I asked you. You have just proved to us that you harbour anti-traveller prejudice"

You just resort to abuse and name calling when proved wrong.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Apr 17 - 07:16 PM

You appear to be living the dream, Raggytash. Me too. Good eating, good wine, and Liverpool won the Merseyside derby convincingly. Dream goal from Coutinho. Roast lamb tomorrow. I still play the tunes on the harmonica but I can't cope with guitars, banjos and bodhrans in sessions any more because of my rotten hearing. Keep us posted. Ten times better reading than the dismal tosh emanating from Keith and his tawdry crowd. You ignore them superbly!


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Apr 17 - 06:43 PM

So, Keith, you've come up with ten convictions over a protracted period and are basing a conclusion about the evils of travellers on just that. That makes you a bigot. You have utterly failed to answer the questions I asked you. You have just proved to us that you harbour anti-traveller prejudice. Well done. The thing is, you thought you'd get away with it. Just like you thought you'd get away with saying that both both Taylor and Clarke were fraudulent. There's no end to your duplicity, is there, Keith? Of course, if you answer the questions properly that I asked you instead of giving us almost nothing except for making evasive links to newspaper reports, I'll eat my words.

Hey Dave, red OR white goes with almost everything, though a red with a roast is what I prefer personally. I'm chuffed that you liked that dish. So simple! When we had it last night I think we were still polishing off a glass of white before moving on to the red.

If you like pasta, here's a slightly non-traditional one that we had tonight that we've had loads of times before. It's a take on one that's on page 99 of Nigel Slater's Real Fast Food. Very simple, though you have to be OK with garlic, tuna and capers.

Drain a tin or jar of the best tuna in olive oil (nothing else will do). We use those jars from Waitrose, though Morrisons do a very nice tin of albocore tuna in oil for £2.29. In oil, mind! Albocore is a fancy name for yellowfin tuna.

Put tuna in a bowl and add the following:

A good chopping of fresh parsley

At least one clove of finely-sliced garlic

A tablespoon of rinsed capers. Only the little ones.

Salt and pepper

Six dessert spoons of full-fat crème fraîche

Mix roughly but try not to break the tuna up too much.

You need 250g short pasta. Whatever you like, but we use gigli pasta, made in Gragnano, the true home of pasta, sold by Tesco. You won't be sorry. Boil the pasta in salted water until al dente. Drain the pasta BUT KEEP A MUGFUL OF PASTA WATER. Crucial.

Throw the pasta back in the pan, add the tuna mix and stir it in. You will definitely need to add some pasta water to loosen the mix. When you're happy with that, put into two warmed bowls and add liberal smounts of freshly-grated parmesan.

This is a superb dish! So easy! It differs from Nigel's version in that I use crème fraîche instead of double cream. Tried it both ways and we prefer the crème fraîche. Also, he doesn't mention using some pasta water to loosen the mix. You definitely need to do this.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Raggytash
Date: 01 Apr 17 - 03:51 PM

Off to a little village this evening for some more music. The village has about 30 houses, a school, a riding school, a shop and 4 bars,one of which does superb seafood..... your mussels will be 20 mintes, that the boat bringing them in ............ oh and a little harbour. The music will go on until the early hours, I've seldom left before 3 in the morning.

At the moment we're sitting in another bar on the other side of the peninsula over looking the strand where my son first drove the car (Rover 600) aged just 12 !!


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Apr 17 - 02:07 PM

"They are not.
Israelis did not "facilitate" any massacre.
There was no proven collusion.
You do not need illumination for an armed militia to massacre civilians in a refugee camp.
No bodies were buried in the camp using Israeli equipment.
No bodies went under the stadium.
Not one single verifiable fact."
Every single one verified and you know it Keith
You give us your version
You lie about everything now Keith - you really are a lost soul on this forum
Your continued self contradictory Racism is typical of your lying
First you claim I had over=reacted to an ironical comment by Teribus
""Jim, you are over-reacting to an ironic reference to Travellers being over-represented in recent slavery cases.""
Then, with one mighty leap, you have even trumped his comments by going viral and claiming four criminals are an over-representation of "Slavery"
What is your evidence for this ludicrous charge - four more press reports
For crying out loud - even you must see how stupidly contradicory this is
You claimed not to be a racist - you said you were only claiming that the signs were not common - now you are in the story-bood world of "slavery"
Go wife the froth off your mouth Keith
You are approaching your "implant" level
Both of you are raving racists -
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Apr 17 - 01:27 PM

That dish was indeed wonderful. Of course what Steve didn't tell us is that once you try it you are forever in thrall to Nigella. I can think of worse fates. Such as having to suffer Keith for ever but, luckily, we can avoid that by discussing more important things.

I would recommend the pudding I had as well. A piece of the Co-ops cranberry and pumpkin seed bread spread thickly with soft Yorkshire blue cheese. Washed down with another glass of Nero D'Avola.

Perhaps it is things like this that are missing from some peoples lives that makes them so grumpy?

:D tG


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Apr 17 - 12:48 PM

"If that is not true and a fair description of you Jim, where are the quotes?"
You've had them Keith and you've repeated the claim


I have not. You are just blustering and lying trying to cover your previous lies.

I've presented fcts (Sabra/Shatila)

You have not.
The Iaraelis facilitated the massacre of up to 3,500 unarmed civilians at the refugees in Sabra Shatila in September, 1982
Without their collusion, the killings could not have happened
They collected the killers from the airpor, armed them, tranported them to the camp, allowed access onto the site, provided illumination so the killing could go on uninterrupted, turned back the refugees attempting to escape, provided equipment to bury the bodies, provided the killers with a meas of escape and eventually built a stadium over the site where most of the bodies were buried so the actual numbers would never be known
These are verified facts


They are not.
Israelis did not "facilitate" any massacre.
There was no proven collusion.
You do not need illumination for an armed militia to massacre civilians in a refugee camp.
No bodies were buried in the camp using Israeli equipment.
No bodies went under the stadium.
Not one single verifiable fact.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Apr 17 - 12:36 PM

Steve,
Instead of appealing to authority, why don't you use your brain?

This is about the accepted definition of anti-Semitism.
I have used my brain and I agree with it.
You refuse to even though it has gained acceptance.
That is why you are incapable of recognising anti-Semitism even when it is admitted by the person responsible and the Labour Party leadership.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Apr 17 - 12:31 PM

Steve,
The slavery laws are new.
The first ever convictions were four Travellers in July 2012.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/jul/11/four-face-jail-slavery-law-convictions

Five Travellers were convicted in December 2012 for keeping a small private workforce and paying them as little as £5 a day for their work.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/police-rescue-three-male-slaves-from-traveller-sites-8991784.html
The same link refers to two Travellers arrested in December 2013 on slavery charges.

In 2016 a Traveller family was jailed for total of 27 years after a court heard two men were used like 'slaves'
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/travellers-descend-cardiff-crown-court-11405928

I may have missed some. The only non Traveller conviction I can remember is some Maoist cult leader. How many can you think of Steve?

Unless you can come up with some others there is clearly a massive over-representation of Travellers convicted of slavery, as I said.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Apr 17 - 12:09 PM

"One thing is certain Jom counter to what Pollack said no members or units of the IDF massacred anyone in any refugee camp."
"Pollack " - a new bit of imbecility
More nitpicking - they facilitated the massacre, it wouldn't have taken place had they not provided weapons, transport illumination and opportunity
Was the getaway driver a part of the bank robbery - of course he was
Your wriggling self inflicted ignorance is an indication that you have not read a single thin put up about this massacre.
"Where had they flown in from, their holidays?"
That's where they were based - even the Kahan report doesn't deny those facts
"Draper reportedly continued that his "own officers (not further identified) had seen about two hundred Phalange soldiers and ten trucks at Beirut airport. Draper then is said to have remarked to Kashdan that "using Phalangists in West Beirut could have horrible results."
You are an arrogant moron who appears to get it off by making yourself look stupid in public
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Apr 17 - 11:53 AM

Got all the fixings for that orzo dish, Steve. I am going to have a go at it soon but at the moment unwinding with a glass of the Nero D'Alola and it is indeed everything you say. Also bought a Fiano, made in Sicily as well, as I like match mt reds and whites by country (I know, blame my Catholic upbringing...) If the red don't go with the food, I'll move over. So, this thread is good for something at least:-)

Been out all afternoon, first in Haworth assisting with the daughters plumbing and then to Skipton for a lovely afternoons browsing. Bought a pair of shorts in the sale in Mountain Warehouse, then saw another pair very similar for a 1/4 of the price in a charity shop. So I bought them too. I guess I have not turned completely Yorkshire yet! Noticed when I got back that the snake's head fritillaries were out. Funny thing is, no one remembers planting them but this is definitely the second or third year we have had them. Beautiful but sadly short lived. Unlike this thread.

:D tG


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Teribus
Date: 01 Apr 17 - 11:30 AM

One thing is certain Jim counter to what Pollack said no members or units of the IDF massacred anyone in any refugee camp.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Apr 17 - 10:54 AM

Never come across anybody who denies all the accepted facts and offers nothing of his own
Must be a new high in megalomania
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Apr 17 - 10:31 AM

By the way
"Or would that just expose all your so-called evidence for the tripe it is."
I suggest you reopn the old threads on this and look at how hard you tried to disprove the facts of Sabra Shatila and came up with zilch, nothing, nowt, s.f.a........
Keith's contribution came the nearest to providing an argument when he said 'the Israelis said they didn't do it so it can't be true'
Now he stonewalls with 'the Israelis have never done anything wrong because the politicians have never condemned them (not supported them, just stayed silent)
You really are a pair of morons - you really need to toss yup in the morning to decide whose turn it is to use the brain
Jeeze!!!!!
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Teribus
Date: 01 Apr 17 - 10:24 AM

Now IIRC the IDF were under orders to withdraw from Beirut.
The Lebanese Militias and Lebanese Army was going to take over responsibility for "security" in Beirut.

Tell me Jim why would those militiamen and Lebanese troops need transporting from the airport? Where had they flown in from, their holidays?

3,500? That number has never been substantiated or verified - your best bet was that the IDF under the gaze of the UN and world's press somehow buried them "in secret" under a sports stadium that at the times was in ruins, but no bodies or the slightest trace of human remains found at this site.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Apr 17 - 10:10 AM

Whoops
I don't have anything that "doesn't hold upo"
I've presented fcts - You have presented nothing but your own bigoted and now you are trying to avoid the question of who facilitated the killing and produced so many corpses in need of burying
The disposal of the bodies is long settled and you have produces nothing to show otherwise.
You stay in your little evasinve corner - this is where I am
Catch up if you will, or don't - your choice

The Iaraelis facilitated the massacre of up to 3,500 unarmed civilians at the refugees in Sabra Shatila in September, 1982
Without their collusion, the killings could not have happened
They collected the killers from the airpor, armed them, tranported them to the camp, allowed access onto the site, provided illumination so the killing could go on uninterrupted, turned back the refugees attempting to escape, provided equipment to bury the bodies, provided the killers with a meas of escape and eventually built a stadium over the site where most of the bodies were buried so the actual numbers would never be known
These are verified facts

Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Apr 17 - 10:05 AM

"Sorry Jim, old son, it is you who have got nowhere."
Ho hum - here we go round the mulberry bush
I don't have anything that "doesn't hold upo"
I've presented fcts - You have presented nothing but your own bigoted opinion with nothing to back it up and now you


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Raggytash
Date: 01 Apr 17 - 08:56 AM

I am very pleased by your verbal attack Terikins, typical of you by the way, you have never heard me play, you have never heard either myself or my good lady singer, yet you feel obliged to offer criticism of the same.

It just goes to show what an empty, mean minded little person you are, so no surprise there really !


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Teribus
Date: 01 Apr 17 - 08:48 AM

Sorry Jim, old son, it is you who have got nowhere. You stated that the Israelis buried the bodies of those they were supposed to have massacred under a sports stadium, only thing is no bodies have been found there even although extensive ground works have been performed there since 1982.

Yes the stadium is one detail that would appear to be central to this myth about a mass grave. A detail that can be proved to be false.

Your version of the "main picture" is so full of holes that it is no wonder that it does not even hold together even under cursory examination. Your facts are nothing of the sort, a story spun by the same dissemblers and liars that brought the world the "horror" story of the Massacre at Jenin - a story that proved to be a complete lie a complete crock of shit.

Now if we want to pursue this we could reopen the original thread where this was discussed? Or would that just expose all your so-called evidence for the tripe it is.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Apr 17 - 07:54 AM

"But Jom, that is the point. There is only one stadium in the area, the Camille Chamoun Stadium:But Jom, that is the point. There is only one stadium in the area, the Camille Chamoun Stadium"
For Christ's sake Teribus, we've been here ad nauseum - you got nowhere then and you'll get nowhere now.
The Stadium was one detail out of a massacre of up to 3,500 unarmed civilians
Try addressing the main picture instead of hiding behind incidentals - come out from behind your smoke-and mirrors act - you've used it to cover the facts far too often and you;'ve never been good at it.
Jom again - more confirmation of your evasive bullshitting - you don't really have to display your insecure lack of imagination; we are all too well aware of it without the bluster-barrier.
Try seeing yourself as others see you, as Rabbie once remarked
Feckin' eejit!!
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Teribus
Date: 01 Apr 17 - 07:20 AM

"the fact that the bodies were buried in numeous sites and a sports stadium was built over some of them." - Jim Carroll

But Jim, that is the point. There is only one stadium in the area, the Camille Chamoun Stadium:

Destroyed in 1982
Rebuilt by British and Lebanese Construction Engineers in 1997 long, long after the IDF had left Beirut.
Modernised and extensively updated in 2015.

And Guess what Jim? Not a single body found, or any trace of human remains - funny that if there are supposed to be 3,500 bodies buried there isn't it.

Tell us about all those nurses and doctors the IDF were supposed to have taken away and executed according to "your" eye-witnesses Jim? You know the ones, the ones that all turned up safe and well and all accounted for.

As previously stated all your eye-witnesses turn out, on examination, to be anything but.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Apr 17 - 06:03 AM

THe pair of you have now double-somersaulted out of your racist closets like a synchronized swimming team
I would say that's about as much evidence as anybody needs to let you wallow in your own racist vomit - don't you?
Thank you for making yet another day for me
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: bobad
Date: 01 Apr 17 - 06:02 AM

What passes for reason in your mind flutters like a rag in the breeze picking up whatever wind suits best.

Great line Teribus, poetic and spot on.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Apr 17 - 05:41 AM

"If that is not true and a fair description of you Jim, where are the quotes?"
You've had them Keith and you've repeated the claim
Where are your "implant" quotes?
Iv'e shown you mine, now you show me yours.
Isn't it amazing how Bobad disappears when you need him
"And it is true that Travellers are massively over-represented in convictions for slavery"
What??????????????????????????????????
Racist garbage
Four criminals were convicted for illegal detention -
You are a racist madman with your fucking cultural implants and your reqwiting facts
Whiho are you working for Keith The BNP, Uip?
You have now really flipped on this one.
"Made up shit shit."
No you are becoming hysterical
Pa - the- tic
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Apr 17 - 05:31 AM

"And it is true that Travellers are massively over-represented in convictions for slavery, as the Independent article made clear."

Give me the statistics. I want to know the total number of CONVICTIONS (the word you used), the period of time they apply to, the nature of the offences, the number of convictions that apply to travellers and the criteria used by the authorities to define the convicts as travellers. Demonstrate this "massive over-representation" with numbers, please.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Apr 17 - 05:12 AM

Not much of an answer, was it, Keith? We used to have a law that said you could cut someone's guts out in public as they were hanged. Instead of appealing to authority, why don't you use your brain? The wider version of "antisemitism" was drawn up by a body that was advised mostly by pro-Israel lobby groups and its aim was to protect the Israeli regime from criticism. That loss of focus is very injurious to Jewish people as it departs from the only workable definition, that antisemitism is attacking Jews because they are Jews. Nothing to do with countries or regimes. Easy to interpret, no need for angst over marginal is-it-isn't-it squabbles as we've seen with regard to the Labour Party. Two things are now going to happen. You are going to tell me how many countries have adopted it and you are going to keep rattling on and on. But I'm not discussing it with you any more because you are not going to use your brain. What fish do you like? Got any recipes?


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Apr 17 - 04:51 AM

Liar Jim,
fully exposed as atrocity denying, Imperial brutality and the persecution of ethnic minorities

Will you support this deranged slander with quotes?
How? It is all made up shit.

Likewise racist bigotry bigotry
Made up shit shit.

denial of a common ant-Traveller sign could turn into a "Slave owning, Human Trafficking ethnic minority"

We were right to deny that the signs were common. None of us who liver here have ever seen one. And it is true that Travellers are massively over-represented in convictions for slavery, as the Independent article made clear.

"You can't(produce quotes) because it is just the rantings of a liar with nothing real to say."

If that is not true and a fair description of you Jim, where are the quotes?


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Apr 17 - 04:40 AM

Nothing fresh, just allusions to things thaat might have been if things had turned out patter for you
You answer nothing that has been put up other than with unsubstantiated deials and you offer nothing of your own and you want to rehash the fact that the bodies were buried in numeous sites and a sports stadium was built over some of them
Are you really that desperate to divert attention from the fact that Israel facilitated the massacre of up to three and a half thousand refugees
For the benefit of you Teribus - for you, this particular war os over.
You have not offered a single documented fact to counter the masses of evidence you have been presented with - not one.
That's what you do - pour out the bullshit and expect it to be taken on trust and doesn't your small-minder blustering name-calling "Jom" show clearly that you know that fact and think you can bluster it though by unimaginative, infantile name-calling
You couldn't slide a credit- card between which of you pair is the most pathetic.
You're not really threatening me with legal action, are you
bring it on bro
Pa-the-tic
Jim Carroll


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