 sj |
||
|
||
BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
|
|
|
Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 21 Feb 17 - 11:22 AM Keith A of Hertford - PM Date: 28 Jan 11 - 06:43 AM Don, on 24th January I said about this issue "It is nothing to do with Islam. " I do not "see the problem as a Muslim one," I have always said specifically that it is not. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II From: Raggytash Date: 21 Feb 17 - 11:25 AM And having writ moves on ............... |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II From: Jim Carroll Date: 21 Feb 17 - 11:35 AM "I do not "see the problem as a Muslim one," I have always said specifically that it is not." "Don I do now " believe that all male Pakistani MUSLIMS have a culturally implanted tendency" Jim Carroll |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 21 Feb 17 - 11:35 AM Jim, you gave a misleading, partial quote from Jack Straw. This is what he actually said, "But there is a specific problem which involves Pakistani heritage men ... who target vulnerable young white girls. "We need to get the Pakistani community to think much more clearly about why this is going on and to be more open about the problems that are leading to a number of Pakistani heritage men thinking it is OK to target white girls in this way." Straw called on the British Pakistani community to be "more open" about the issue. "These young men are in a western society, in any event, they act like any other young men, they're fizzing and popping with testosterone, they want some outlet for that, but Pakistani heritage girls are off-limits and they are expected to marry a Pakistani girl from Pakistan, typically," he said. "So they then seek other avenues and they see these young women, white girls who are vulnerable, some of them in care ... who they think are easy meat. "And because they're vulnerable they ply them with gifts, they give them drugs, and then of course they're trapped." " |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II From: Jim Carroll Date: 21 Feb 17 - 01:53 PM "Jim, you gave a misleading, partial quote from Jack Straw." I most certainly did not - it is you who is misleading The article you quote from concerns 50 Muslim men out of 56 convicted, from which you use Straw back your "implant" claim - 50 out of a population of 1.5 million = a paedophilia implant - give us a break! You carefully didn't link to your quote because it contains a great deal of opposition to Straw "controversial" statement, from the British judiciary involved in trying those 50 men and from British Muslims (making, you a racist, by your own logic, for taking the oinions of less than half-a-dozen people, rather than that of thousands of Muslims) This is exactly what Straw said. "'These young men are in a western society, in any event, they act like any other young men, they're fizzing and popping with testosterone, they want some outlet for that, but Pakistani heritage girls are off-limits and they are expected to marry a Pakistani girl from Pakistan." Jim Carroll |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II From: Teribus Date: 21 Feb 17 - 02:22 PM "Ireland has opposed outside rule for eight centuries" - Jim Carroll Really Jim? What fairy story did you get that from? For much of that time the island was peaceful. Those who caused trouble were usually Irish nobles seeking to line their own pockets and settle old scores, and they tended to do that with the help of the Spanish or the French. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II From: Raggytash Date: 21 Feb 17 - 02:40 PM Ah the Empire line again ............... Do you think that the population of the Channel Islands embraced the Germans who took control of those islands in the 40's. Would you respect them if they had? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II From: Teribus Date: 21 Feb 17 - 03:11 PM "These young men are in a western society, in any event, they act like any other young men, they're fizzing and popping with testosterone, they want some outlet for that, but Pakistani heritage girls are off-limits and they are expected to marry a Pakistani girl from Pakistan, typically," he said. "So they then seek other avenues and they see these young women, white girls who are vulnerable, some of them in care ... who they think are easy meat." - Jack Straw A couple of stories for you related to the above: 1: Bus journey in Derby in the late 1960s with my father-in-law. A group of six quite boisterous youngsters, all male, who I took to be of either Indian or Pakistani descent were on the bus. as female passengers got on and off the bus their was a constant stream of conversation within this group. after a while my father-in-law got up from his seat and went up to them and spoke to them in flawless Urdu telling them that he knew where they lived (Of course he didn't, but they weren't to know that) and that their parents would be ashamed of them if it was reported to them what they had been saying about the female passengers on the bus. He then told them exactly what he thought of them, using the terms that they themselves had used in insulting the passengers on the bus. That is when I learned that from his time in India and Burma with the Army during the Second World War he had learned to speak Urdu, Pashtu, Hindi and Nepali - all fluently. I had never seen such a shocked look on the faces of complete and utter strangers in my life and from that moment onwards they were totally silent. Their view of "western women" was exactly as Jack Straw described. 2: In an Pakistani owned Indian Restaurant on the south coast in the mid-1980s with a friend of mine who had been born in Bombay, worked in India pre-partition in Karachi and then firstly in East and then in West Africa, and was now retired. We were half way through our meal when he asked the waiter serving us to get the owner, who came over. My friend then asked the man to call three of the waiters over. He then proceeded again in perfect Urdu to tell the owner how these three men had been referring to the his female diners during their service. He also told the owner that if he did not reprimand them there and then in the restaurant he would report the matter to the police. The reprimand was given and at least three tables in the restaurant that night got a big surprise when they found out that their meals were strangely "on-the-house". The views of those waiters on "western women" was exactly as Jack Straw described. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II From: Dave the Gnome Date: 21 Feb 17 - 03:25 PM Spent the day ferrying people and things between the Aire Valley and Haworth. Two of the loveliest places you could visit and, smack between them, the town of Keighley with its high Muslim population. All of whom I am sure would not recognise the description Keith and his sychophants put forward. Don't get me wrong, there are Muslim prats there as well as Christian prats. Mostly to do with young blokes flexing their muscles in suped up hot hatches. But they are far less threatening than walking the streets of Salford at throwing out time on a Saturday night. Not a lot to do with the Labour party either way so I guess that no one would object if I mentioned the sign I saw over a door in am old Mill just outside Keighley today saying 'Work Peoples Entrance'. Made me smile and reflect that we have come a long way. Sad that so many want to drag us back there :-( DtG |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II From: Raggytash Date: 21 Feb 17 - 05:50 PM Talk of bad behaviour, at Odsall in Salford, back in the 70's when I occasionally frequented the area, the Alsatians went round in three's. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II From: Teribus Date: 21 Feb 17 - 05:52 PM "I saw over a door in am old Mill just outside Keighley today saying 'Work Peoples Entrance'. Made me smile and reflect that we have come a long way. Sad that so many want to drag us back there :-( Aw Gnome don't speak about Jeremy in that way - you might get reported |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II From: Steve Shaw Date: 21 Feb 17 - 06:27 PM Well in my time I've mixed it with the best and worst of 'em. I've seen sexist, misogynistic, cat-calling, wolf-whistling, get yer tits out, drop 'em blossom, threatening slagging-off of women from plenty of white men. The trouble with your little anecdotes, Teribus, doubtless cleaned up a little for the telling, is that they don't tell one tenth of the story of what really goes on from boardroom to rugby changing room to sixth-form classroom to pub to workplace to back-street hangouts. You'll hear all those views on "western women" (for chrissake!!) in all those places. Oh, and probably on board those ships you sailed the oceans on. From black, white, yellow, Christians, Muslims, Jews and none of the above. The world over. So God knows what you're trying to prove. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II From: Big Al Whittle Date: 21 Feb 17 - 06:52 PM i'm so glad Keith's father in law stuck his hooter in using perfect urdu. would you do the samr if you heard a white lad saying - that one shags like a rattlesnake. its the sort of thing virginal young men have been saying since Adam felt his figleaf wobble. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II From: Steve Shaw Date: 21 Feb 17 - 06:55 PM More than wobble, Al. Turn into a tabletop to put his pint on, more like. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II From: Raggytash Date: 21 Feb 17 - 07:15 PM Al, it wasn't Keiths father in law. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II From: Steve Shaw Date: 21 Feb 17 - 07:36 PM It might have been, though, Raggytash. Think of it as an alternative fact! Anyway, Keith and Teribus are nobbut two cheeks o't'same arse! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II From: Big Al Whittle Date: 21 Feb 17 - 08:55 PM My apologies Keith! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II From: Teribus Date: 22 Feb 17 - 01:55 AM " The trouble with your little anecdotes, Teribus, doubtless cleaned up a little for the telling, is that they don't tell one tenth of the story of what really goes on from boardroom to rugby changing room to sixth-form classroom to pub to workplace to back-street hangouts. You'll hear all those views on "western women" (for chrissake!!) in all those places. Oh, and probably on board those ships you sailed the oceans on." - Shaw Well let's see Shaw, what were the comments you said you'd hear again: "I've seen sexist, misogynistic, cat-calling, wolf-whistling, get yer tits out, drop 'em blossom, threatening slagging-off of women from plenty of white men." In boardrooms? From that it can be plainly seen that you've never sat in a boardroom in your life. Rugby changing rooms? Not accessible to the general public and not frequented generally by women going about their normal daily lives. Sixth form classroom? Just shows you what a piss poor teacher you must have been then Shaw. The Pub and back street hang-outs? Are they known for being busy thoroughfares Shaw? In ships? My time at sea there were no women at sea. You are saying that this sort of behaviour is normal - the "sexist, misogynistic, cat-calling, wolf-whistling, get yer tits out, drop 'em blossom, threatening slagging-off of women" - in which case you have no objection, as Jim Carroll apparently has, to the reported, candid, off the record "locker room" remarks previously made way back in time by the current President of the United States of America. The trouble with your understanding of my little anecdotes Shaw was that both locations were very public, the remarks were made loudly in a foreign tongue that those speaking it made the mistake of thinking nobody would understand. I have never encountered anything similar to what you describe in a public place with women present by anyone using the English language. If you have then as the old saying goes, "You can always judge a man by the company he keeps" - And the pig got up and slowly walked away. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II From: Jim Carroll Date: 22 Feb 17 - 03:50 AM "Really Jim? What fairy story did you get that from? " Oh - for fuck's sake - you arrogant shit Really Jim? What fairy story did you get that from? Violence has been part of Irish life throughout English rule - your unqualified denials have become mindlessly boring. Your pathetic Islamophopbic anecdotes are just that - pathetic. I worked for Muslim customers for over twenty years and at no time did I meet with a single piece of abuse or even bad manners - not once. Many of them became friends, as a visiting tradesman, they rgularly fed me and provided intelligent and entertaining company whenever we found time to talk I felt far easier discussing my atheism with them than I did with many of my English customers. I have never met a group of people as tolerant as they were, quiet and respectful to me, to their neigbours, and even tolerant to the scum who poured shit through their letterboxes, or daubed their walls with obscene graffiti, or made their children's journey to school a gauntlet of hate. When I read shitty litle urban legends like your I am always reminded of the old Giles cartoon in The Daily Express depicting wounded Notting Hill rioting thugs being greeted on the hospital steps by black doctors and nurse ready to treat their wounds. It is white-superior people like you who think it funny to order a meal in an Indian restaurant, abuse the staff and smash the place up when they leave, who are the problem, not well behaved, intelligent and industrious Muslim guests of the nation. Arrogance and aggression sometimes elicits a sharp response - you appear incapable of learning that fact Jim Carroll |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II From: Steve Shaw Date: 22 Feb 17 - 04:30 AM Talk about missing the point. Misogynistic talk happens in both the presence and absence of women. I was a sixth-former myself for two years and I was a sentient being at the time enjoying a reasonable memory. For rugby read football, cricket or any other male-oriented sport, clot. And, once again, you profess to know what my life experiences have been and you stand in judgement of my teaching career even though you have never met me nor seen me in action. Typical response from an uneducated ex-naval Dhobi wallah, I'd say (there, see how unpleasant assumptions based on prejudice can be?) You gave us two nicely-barbered little anecdotes. If you really want those to stand as blanket evidence of the attitude of certain non-white cultures to "western women," I'd say that makes you a.... finish it yourself. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II From: Dave the Gnome Date: 22 Feb 17 - 04:54 AM I must say, Teribus, I think your comment of 21 Feb 17 - 05:52 PM was quite good. Humour is far better than bile. You should use it more often. DtG |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 22 Feb 17 - 04:57 AM Jim, they act like any other young men, they're fizzing and popping with testosterone, they want some outlet for that, but Pakistani heritage girls are off-limits and they are expected to marry a Pakistani girl from Pakistan." Straw links the offending (the grooming, raping and trafficking of vulnerable children, typically but not exclusively orphanage children) to the culture. We had this discussion in 2011. Why have you brought it back? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II From: Teribus Date: 22 Feb 17 - 05:08 AM Missed the point again Shaw. The line that was being peddled was that Jack Straw was talking rubbish The "stories" represent personal experience that confirms that what Jack Straw stated about the Rotherham sex gang view of vulnerable children existed in the UK in the 1960s and the 1980s - so I recognise that for those British-Pakistani men who were tried and convicted just recently in ten British cities their fathers and their grandfathers held exactly the same views - "cultural implant" - nothing whatsoever to do with their religion. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II From: Jim Carroll Date: 22 Feb 17 - 07:47 AM "The line that was being peddled was that Jack Straw was talking rubbish" No - the being peddled was that Keith deliberately distorted it to fit his racist agenda. Straw commented on what he believed to be an over-representation anmonfg certain communities, but went on to point out that many of the people concerned were behaving no differently than youths from other communities who indulged in underage sex. I doubt of less than half of the pupils in the last two terms of my school hadn't had sex with someone of the same age - we had no Muslims in our school. What Straw made as an opinion was taken up as a definitive statement and the outcry that followed was not in the actual statement but the fact that it was being taken out of context by people like Keith and Teribus to promote an Islamophobic hate agenda. This pair continue that quest. There is no documented evidence to suggest that the Muslim community is any more prone to underage sex than any other, in fact, the moral standards are are higher than those in Britain. Those Muslims who were involved were misfits, not typical of their communities - Jack Straw was referring to 50 cases. Both Teribus and Keith are now openly declared racists, which is what I was hoping to establish. The former is stereotypical with his little Urban Legend anecdotes and his crude thuggishness Jim Carroll |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II From: Jim Carroll Date: 22 Feb 17 - 07:53 AM By the way I knew numerous cases of fathers in white families who beat the shite out of their daughters when they learned they had black boyfriends and at least to occasions of a daughter being ejected from her home when she refused to end the relationship. I knew Jewish families in Manchester who, progressive in their views as they were, violently opposed to mixed marriages in their families. I wonder if this counts as "cultural implanting" in the sick minds of these bigots Jim Carroll |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II From: Jim Carroll Date: 22 Feb 17 - 07:58 AM PPS "Why have you brought it back?" You know why I brought it back - you asked for evidence oif your extremism - I obliged I take comfort from the fact that it will always be on hand whenever needed - a handy reference Any examples of Keith's claimed quotes yet Teribus? Jim Carroll |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II From: Teribus Date: 22 Feb 17 - 09:12 AM "There is no documented evidence to suggest that the Muslim community is any more prone to underage sex than any other" - Jim Carroll Yet another deliberate misrepresentation Jim. But one you are not going to get away with. Not just "underage sex" was it Jim? How many of your former school mates in their last two years at school were guilty of systematic and prolonged - abduction, rape, torture and sex trafficking of children? Jack Straw - 50 cases? 125 people so far have been arrested tried and convicted in eleven cities across England. Rotherham in 2010 kicked open a can of worms, some might say the tip of an iceberg. You may seek to trivialise the offences Carroll, I do not. You may seek to perpetuate the religion of adherence to "political correctness" that protected these bastards for years, I do not. In Rotherham there were at least 1,400 girls involved some of them for years tried to tell the Police and social services exactly what was going on. A totally idiotic fear of being considered "racist" and "Islamophobic" allowed the horrendous abuse to continue and extended the abuse that those girls suffered - and judging by your comments Jim had any of those girls come to you would have done no different. You wanted quotes Jim: Labour peer Lord Ahmed has called on mosque leaders in South Yorkshire to speak about the issues surrounding sex exploitation. Mohammed Ali, chairman of the Pakistan and Muslim Centre in Sheffield, said: "The situation needs to be tackled. We can't hide behind it and say it will go away, that's not acceptable in any way shape or form. "We've got the South Yorkshire mosques together and we've discussed individually and privately with the imams and with the committee members." Lord Ahmed said he did not know THE REASON WHY ASIAN MEN WERE EXPLOITING YOUNG GIRLS. Well hells teeth Jim, WTF would he know about it!! No doubt you know better than the man himself and tell him what he really was thinking. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II From: Raggytash Date: 22 Feb 17 - 09:37 AM Teri Abuse is not as you would have us believe purely confined to Asian men. Read the link below, it is part of a long standing issue in the North Yorks Enquirer. The Police in this instance allegedly ignored intelligence over a prolong period of time. http://nyenquirer.uk/jaconelli-savile-spanish-waiter-missing-murdered/ |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II From: Jim Carroll Date: 22 Feb 17 - 10:57 AM How many of your former school mates in their last two years at school were guilty of systematic and prolonged - abduction, rape, torture and sex trafficking of children?" And how many of those convicted were guilty of the same? All of those crimes you mention are common to indigenous paedofiles as well as some of those convicted Making these crimes "Muslim" is what makes you pair the racists you are "Lord Ahmed said he did not know THE REASON WHY ASIAN MEN WERE EXPLOITING YOUNG GIRLS." But you pair apparently do - do you know something he doesn't? Jack Straw's comment referred to 50 cases - subsequent cases remain in the few hundreds The Muslim population has a long way to go before it catches up with our own home-grown paedofiles He was shouted down by protests from Muslims all over Britain - why is their word word less valid over the tiny handful that Keith produced? Nobody has ever claimed "implants" or entire communities - that is the product of Keith's sick imagination You are a sick pair of racists Jim Carroll A MORE UP-TO-DATE EXAMPLE AND AGAIN AND YET AGAIN |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 22 Feb 17 - 11:51 AM Jim, but went on to point out that many of the people concerned were behaving no differently than youths from other communities who indulged in underage sex. No he did not. He acknowledged the same urges but pointed out that culture limited the legitimate outlets for it, leading to the multiple raping and pimping of children. There is no documented evidence to suggest that the Muslim community is any more prone to underage sex than any other, No, and no-one has suggested it but it is an established fact that certain demographics are hugely over-represented in this specific crime. Both Teribus and Keith are now openly declared racists, I am sure I speak for both of us when I utterly refute that disgusting accusation. Rag, Abuse is not as you would have us believe purely confined to Asian men. No one here would have you believe such an idiotic idea Rag. Jim again, Making these crimes "Muslim" is what makes you pair the racists you are No-one has suggested that religion is an issue. I have specifically and repeatedly said that it is not. Why do you repeat that blatant lie Jim? Because the truth is your enemy in this crusade of yours. "Lord Ahmed said he did not know THE REASON WHY ASIAN MEN WERE EXPLOITING YOUNG GIRLS." But you pair apparently do - do you know something he doesn't? In the original thread I quoted him ascribing it to the culture, especially to unhappy arranged marriages. He was shouted down by protests from Muslims all over Britain No he was not. The overwhelming majority of Muslims are as appalled by this as we are. You should be too. Nobody has ever claimed "implants" or entire communities - that is the product of Keith's sick imagination It is not my imagination that culture influences us all to some extent, and not my idea that culture is the issue here. My only case is that there is an over-representation, not why. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II From: Jim Carroll Date: 22 Feb 17 - 12:31 PM "are hugely over-represented" There is no suggestion of hugely over representation is yours - you have disgustingly made this up How could such an accusation be made on only several hundred cases You say you only believe this because somebody told you it was true - now you are going viral with your invention and confirming it is all your own work - as I said - you are an extremist "I am sure I speak for both of us when I utterly refute that disgusting accusation." I'm sure you do yet you have proved my point on this very posting There is no link between paedofelia and culture - none whatever and whoever claims there is is a raving racist. "No-one has suggested that religion is an issue." ""Don I do now " believe that all male Pakistani What''s a Muslim - a breed of racehorse?? Once again you are claiming things you rfuse to either link us to or re-post You pair are sick racists Post your quotes and you will show you are telling the truth about others saying what you claim But as you are still insisting this shit is true, you are compounding your racism To claim you are not a racist on the same posting as you display your racism is beyond belief - but good fun - god forgive me!! Jim Carroll |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II From: Raggytash Date: 22 Feb 17 - 01:49 PM I can't help but notice professor that you make absolutely no mention of abuse committed by white caucasian men as described on my link. No surprise as it doesn't fit with your racist agenda does it. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II From: Dave the Gnome Date: 22 Feb 17 - 04:09 PM There could be many reasons for over representation if that is indeed the case. Some demographics are under far more scrutiny than others The crimes of that demographic are more widely reported It is politically expedient to target those who are perceived as a threat in other ways such as terrorism The perpetrators in that demographic are not as wily as their counterparts in others The demographic is question is under represented in political circles and do not have the power to cover things up like others Why chose culturally implanted as the only possible reason I wonder? DtG |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II From: Teribus Date: 22 Feb 17 - 05:22 PM "Abuse is not as you would have us believe purely confined to Asian men." - Raggy OK Raggy point out where I have ever stated that. If you cannot do that by quoting in full the post where I am stated that the kindly STFU about it. I quoted details of eleven instances where gangs were abducting, raping, torturing and sex trafficking children. The degree and extent of the crimes perpetrated by those gangs were no invention of either Keith A of Hertford, or myself. They were the findings of the police officers who finally got round to investigating those crimes and from evidence that came to light during the court cases that saw 125 men tried, found guilty, convicted and imprisoned. Tell me Raggy what do you think was meant when those looking into those cases stated that "institutional political correctness" played a part in the delay in investigations and prosecutions? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II From: Raggytash Date: 22 Feb 17 - 05:55 PM Again like your co-author you make no reference to the case of white caucasian men in my link. Doesn't fit your racist agenda does it. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 23 Feb 17 - 05:15 AM Rag, I can't help but notice professor that you make absolutely no mention of abuse committed by white caucasian men as described on my link. I did in the original discussion, which you should read before pontificating and making accusations. I acknowledged several times that overwhelmingly most convicted child sex offenders were white. Jim, There is no suggestion of hugely over representation is yours - you have disgustingly made this up No. In the specific crime of street grooming of children there is a huge overrepresentation of one demographic whatever the reason. Guardian 3 years ago, (It does not restrict itself to street grooming where the figures are much more clear cut.) "Is there something about Asian Muslim men that leads to them being disproportionately involved in the grooming and sexual abuse of white girls? The courts have dealt with a cluster of horrific cases including those in Rochdale, Derby and now Oxford. Available figures are patchy and flawed, but on the face of it they do suggest Asian men are disproportionately involved in group grooming leading to sexual abuse, compared with their numbers in the national population. This impression is supported by several sources in law enforcement who spoke to the Guardian. A 2011 study by the Child Exploitation and Online Protection Centre looked at the 2,379 potential offenders caught grooming girls since 2008. Of 940 suspects whose race could be identified, 26% were Asian, 38% were white and 32% were recorded as unknown. Asians are roughly 7% of the population. A report for the children's commissioner in 2012 found there were 1,514 perpetrators. Of these, 545 were white, 415 were Asian and 244 were black. The ethnicity of 21% of perpetrators was not recorded. Attempts to analyse the Asian figure further runs into problems. Just 35 of the 415 Asians are recorded as having Pakistani heritage and thus highly likely to be Muslim, and only five are recorded as being from a Bangladeshi background. The heritage of 366 of the Asian group is not stated in those figures." |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 23 Feb 17 - 05:29 AM Mohamed Shafiq, quoted by me in the original discussion, is chief executive of The Ramadhan Foundation, a moderate Muslim group trying to foster better relationships with non-Muslims. "Mr Shafiq profiles the offenders as Asian men, predominantly Pakistani, who want easy sex and are prepared to pay to abuse girls as young as 13. Of 68 recent convictions for on-street grooming, 59 were of British Pakistani men. "They have a respectable life in the community and then they have their night life. "Asian girls are not available to them and so they look to Western girls. They think they're easy. They see them as tarts who are there to be used." " http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9252003/Rochdale-grooming-trial-Mohammed-Shafiq-the-campaigner-who-stood-up-to-the-abusers.html |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 23 Feb 17 - 05:32 AM "The Muslim community, which was so long in denial about the acts committed by a few of its members, has begun to confront the problem. "We can't refute the statistics that a disproportionate number of those involved in grooming are British Asian men," says Mr Karmani. But the problem is not confined to young Asian men. It is nothing to do with Muslim culture, he says," http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/commentators/the-oxford-child-sex-abuse-verdict-highlights-a-cultural-problem-but-not-a-specifically-muslim-one-8616370.html |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 23 Feb 17 - 05:40 AM 4:55PM BST 25 Jun 2015 A report detailing how gangs of Asian men in Birmingham were grooming school girls with alcohol and drugs was not made public after senior officers warned that such information could inflame racial tensions ahead of the 2010 General Election. West Midlands Police were warned that more than 100 predominantly white school children - some as young as 13 - were at serious risk of child exploitation, with abusers approaching pupils at the school gates. Police said they had identified 75 suspects, most boasting a history of sexual violence and most of whom came from the Pakistani community in Birmingham. But they warned that making the information public could inflame racial tensions particularly ahead of the 2010 General Election, which was due to take place several weeks later. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11699179/Report-about-Asian-grooming-gangs-was-supressed-to-avoid-inflaming-racial-tension.html |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 23 Feb 17 - 05:45 AM Daily Mirror 2014, Anger at the sexual abuse of teenage girls by Pakistani grooming gangs is tearing a town apart with racial tension, a Sunday People investigation has revealed. Multi-cutural Rotherham in South Yorkshire was rocked by a damning report this summer, which showed that 1,400 vulnerable youngsters have been targeted for sex since 1997. Worryingly, we found hate crime has soared and mutual suspicion is rife since it was revealed the culprits were mainly British Asians. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/rotherham-child-grooming-scandal-tearing-4508666 |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II From: Raggytash Date: 23 Feb 17 - 05:55 AM Isn't it strange that you object so much to old threads being used to support arguments against yourself castigating Steve and Jim for going back to 2011 and 2014 but you are quite prepared to use examples from these times to support your racist rant against Muslim men. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II From: Steve Shaw Date: 23 Feb 17 - 05:58 AM Good job Jim and I take no notice! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 23 Feb 17 - 06:04 AM Rag, Isn't it strange that you object so much to old threads being used to support arguments against yourself castigating Steve and Jim for going back to 2011 and 2014 but you are quite prepared to use examples from these times to support your racist rant against Muslim men. I have made no racist rant, and the rehashing of this nasty old subject was nothing to do with me. I just defend myself from slanders like yours with facts and the truth. Steve, Good job Jim and I take no notice! But I am responding to points made by you both. Three members of the gang that does not exist, all hounding me over two posts both made years ago and which you refuse to see in their original intended context. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II From: Raggytash Date: 23 Feb 17 - 06:07 AM LOL |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II From: Jim Carroll Date: 23 Feb 17 - 06:21 AM "the rehashing of this nasty old subject was nothing to do with me." You asked for examples of your extremism - you got it - you don't like it That will teach you not to ask You brought the subject of cultural implants up in the first place, on the Muslim Prejudice thred - I agree with you entirely that it was a nasty thing to do. "I have made no racist rant," It is a racist rant to describe an entire culture as implanted potention perverts But I am responding to points made by you both." With lies and denials and with a repeated insistence that your racist rant is true Three members of the gang that does not exist, all hounding me over two posts both made years ago" Which you have never withdrawn and are now defending as accurate - and blaming non-existent others for putting you up to it. "two posts both made years ago"" I count five posts you have just put up dating back as far as 2011 attempting to prove that Muslims are implanted perverts And you say you are not a racist!!!!! THERE IS NO EXISTING PROOF THAT MUSLIM CIULTURE INCLINES MUSLIMS TO HAVING UNDERAGE SEX - ANYBODY WHO CLAIMS THAT THEY ARE IS A RACIST - SIMPLE AS THAT Jim Carroll |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II From: Steve Shaw Date: 23 Feb 17 - 06:42 AM Yes, I'll sort you out later over your Wheatcroft farrago when I have a minute. Gird your loins. It's not about past historical posts, Keith. It's about what kind of man you are. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II From: Jim Carroll Date: 23 Feb 17 - 06:44 AM Keith Simple question regarding mathematics and logic If only a few hundred Asian youths out of a population os One and a half million have been tried for underage sexual offence against young women, how can that possibly be described as a "massive over-representation"? Are there more than this number that are being covered up? Do you have any information on such a cover up How do you know there are Can you explain what you mean by "a massive over-representation"? "massive over-representation" of what - the entire population, the population of Bradford, or wherever else these incidents have been found Where are the figures for this "massive over-representation" Failure to explain this anomaly makes you not only a racist, but a propagandist for racism Jim Carroll |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II From: Jim Carroll Date: 23 Feb 17 - 07:03 AM Some facts and figures while you are considering your answer on "over-representation" http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/hay-festival/11641096/Number-of-paedophiles-in-Britain-will-shock-public-warns-Deputy-Childrens-Commissioner-for-England.html (can't blue clikie) Some more http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/child-protection/11630989/Child-sex-abuse-Police-guarded-paedophile-ring-claims-victim.html More still http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/child-protection/11527344/Child-sex-abuse-victims-threaten-legal-action-over-inquiry.html Yet more http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/11617789/Scale-of-child-sex-abuse-revealed-in-new-police-figures.html Would this count as "over-representation" in your book? Jim Carroll |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 23 Feb 17 - 07:29 AM Jim, You asked for examples of your extremism - you got it I did not. It is not extreme to believe that culture effects us all to some extent. Most people believe that. It is not extreme to point out that culture has been cited by highly credible people as the cause of the over-representation. You have found nothing extreme in anything I have posted and never will. THERE IS NO EXISTING PROOF THAT MUSLIM CIULTURE INCLINES MUSLIMS TO HAVING UNDERAGE SEX - I agree. There is nothing in Islam that would do that. Why do you mention such a ludicrous idea? Steve, It's about what kind of man you are. Yes. You try to make every discussion about me. You can not challenge what I say so you attack me personally. You pathetic losers. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 23 Feb 17 - 07:32 AM Jim, If only a few hundred Asian youths out of a population os One and a half million have been tried for underage sexual offence against young women, how can that possibly be described as a "massive over-representation"? "Of 68 recent convictions for on-street grooming, 59 were of British Pakistani men. " That is a massive over-representation of a demographic that is only about 2% of the population. |